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[SantaC]

Ok, let's not kid ourselves. I know that the GC is basicly dead on the 3rd party front right now, but Konami didn't support the cube from the very begining when it had potential. I can understand Konami not supporting xbox, since it was new on the market, plus it was a western product. But why not Gamecube? I am sure Konami could atleast have raked in some easy cash with a few ports to GC. Hell in the end, Xbox basicly ended up with more and better games from Konami. Castlevania Curse of Darkness is going to Xbox but not cube this fall, and that move also puzzles me. Castlevania atleast have a Nintendo fanbase from all the past games and the upcoming DS game.

I remember how massive the nes + snes support was from Konami, and it had ok N64 support. So did Nintendo piss off Konami that much during the N64 days or what?

Um so does anyone have a good answer for this.

 

[jarrod]

Konami had pretty great N64 support actually, and did fairly well on the platform with stuff like PowerPro, ISS and Goemon. I dunno what was up with them avoiding DC/GC/Xbox this gen.... they were far more multiplatform last generation, with PS1, Saturn and N64 all seeing choice releases.

 

[Tritroid]

+

 

[bitwise]

the cold shoulder

they probably just feel like they cant make much money on a GC title. I cant explain why they think castlevania will sell more on XBOX, though.

 

[CO_Andy]

Yu-Gi-Oh! didn't sell?

 

[SantaC]

Konami had pretty great N64 support actually, and did fairly well on the platform with stuff like PowerPro, ISS and Goemon. I dunno what was up with them avoiding DC/GC/Xbox this gen.... they were far more multiplatform last generation, with PS1, Saturn and N64 all seeing choice releases.

You are right. the 2 goemon games plus ISS for N64 were atleast decent support. And they did put 2 Castlevania titles on it. Compared to N64, It's like night and day.

 

[Zerodoppler]

GC got a Winning Eleven in the beginning IIRC. Perhaps it sold so poorly that Konami ended support after that.

 

[Gek54]

=

Fixed.

 

[Lazy vs Crazy]

They think can't compete with Nintendo's first party games, so they don't bother trying, I think.

Many 3rd parties have this same idea. I mean, would you want your game launching against Zelda?

 

[SantaC]

They think can't compete with Nintendo's first party games, so they don't bother trying, I think.

Many 3rd parties have this same idea. I mean, would you want your game launching against Zelda?

what?

 

[ourumov]

Konami was the best Japanese 3rd Party when it comes to N64 support. Back then it was Namco and Capcom the ones that totally avoided the system.

I guess they have learned why Konami skipped it this gen.



I guess the answer to all this lies in a change of policy of the company. Back to the 16/32 bits , Konami used to support one system the most but it also delivered interesting games to the other.
Both the MD and the SS had interesting Konami games despite being machines that weren't the best sellers of the gen (in Japan).

I guess they have chosen the maximum profit way instead of the maximum userbase way...Even though I don't understand why Konami has supported the XBOX at all. If there is one userbase totally contrary to Konami's philoshophy that's the XBOX one.

 

[Amir0x]

They think can't compete with Nintendo's first party games, so they don't bother trying, I think.

Many 3rd parties have this same idea. I mean, would you want your game launching against Zelda?

The qualification of this statement should be "Would you want your game launching aginst Zelda on a platform where the majority of the successful titles are from Nintendo, and there's only a userbase of 18,000,000?"

That's the crux, I think. There's always exceptions (Tales of Symphonia, Resident Evil 4, Viewtiful Joe), but it's just not conducive to a general large-scale development support for most developers.

 

[AB 101]

+

Eh, everyones doing it nowadays.

 

[Firest0rm]

They think can't compete with Nintendo's first party games, so they don't bother trying, I think.

Many 3rd parties have this same idea. I mean, would you want your game launching against Zelda?

Zelda doesn't launch every freaking day, they have a 5 year period where they can plan their releases.

 

[SantaC]

Konami was the best Japanese 3rd Party when it comes to N64 support. Back then it was Namco and Capcom the ones that totally avoided the system.

I guess they have learned why Konami skipped it this gen.

Yes now when I think of it, Konami had pretty good N64 support. But the question remains why it was piss poor this generation.

 

[Pellham]

The reason Konami didn't support the Gamecube is because they were one of the few third parties who heavily supported the N64 (Konami released something like 20 N64 games), and they lost millions of dollars supporting the N64 (they even had to shut down one of their studios), so obviously they decided it wasn't a good idea to repeat the same mistake and support the Gamecube.

Not surprisingly, Capcom and Namco, having virtually ignored the N64, gave the Gamecube a little bit more chance, releasing some exclusives or first-year exclusives. I'm sure Namco is happy with Tales of Symphonia's sales. But Capcom is probably reluctant to do major business with Nintendo now (they got rid of their most Nintendo friendly executive, Okamoto, and demoted Mikami).

 

[Link316]

Konami gave the GC plenty of support, you can't expect a publisher to stick around if people don't buy their games

 

[Lazy vs Crazy]

Zelda doesn't launch every freaking day, they have a 5 year period where they can plan their releases.

Alright, then you launch against Mario, or Metroid, or Mario Kart, or some other huge first party game that 60% of the user base is guranteed to purchase.

 

[SantaC]

Konami gave the GC plenty of support, you can't expect a publisher to stick around if people don't buy their games

Please tell me you are kidding. They expected all those disney sport titles to sell? Konami's biggest offering was the lacking remake of MGS - from SK.

 

[Leatherface]

Konami gave the GC plenty of support.

Where? The only Konami game in my collection is a Metal Gear Solid remake by Silicon Knights! Maybe Konami would actually sell more if they put non shit games on the Cube. Don't they lose even more money by putting games on the system that definately wont sell?

 

[ourumov]

Yes now when I think of it, Konami had pretty good N64 support. But the question remains why it was piss poor this generation.

You have to think that bad sales in the N64 era were much worse than now. The price of a cartridge was very high and if you calculated sales in a bad way you were screwed. I believe they lost tons of money.

The reason Konami didn't support the Gamecube is because they were one of the few third parties who heavily supported the N64 (Konami released something like 20 N64 games), and they lost millions of dollars supporting the N64 (they even had to shut down one of their studios), so obviously they decided it wasn't a good idea to repeat the same mistake and support the Gamecube.

Not surprisingly, Capcom and Namco, having virtually ignored the N64, gave the Gamecube a little bit more chance, releasing some exclusives or first-year exclusives. I'm sure Namco is happy with Tales of Symphonia's sales. But Capcom is probably reluctant to do major business with Nintendo now (they got rid of their most Nintendo friendly executive, Okamoto, and demoted Mikami).

Yep Pellham, KCEO/KCEK had to close mainly because the lackluster sales of their products and they were pretty talented guys.

All the humour Konami has was there. Even though sometimes people says Parodius team was a KCET thing I believe that the roots were in Osaka. Otherwise I can't understand how Osaka's Goemon games are god while KCET's ones are evil.

Long life to KCEO and KCEK.

Of course I am not defending KCEN and KCEUSA or KCE Haway...which have proven they were useless.



Time has proven that the post-SNES Nintendo isn't compatible with 3rd parties. They'd better stick to a only Nintendo games on Nintendo consoles because all the agreements they have made haven't been as successful as one would think for the 3rd party.
I really doubt Revolution is gonna have a strong support from Namco and Capcom after this gen. It's not that sales have been horrible, they haven't. But we can't say they have been stellar.
Of course they are great if we compare it with the XBOX but keep in mind that xbox numbers are totally pointless. We all know that MS is behind offering sweet deals to 3rd parties in form of free lincenses for MS products which is a think that they really like.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Yes now when I think of it, Konami had pretty good N64 support. But the question remains why it was piss poor this generation.

I'd imagine it has to do with what Pellham pointed out. They weren't satisfied with the sales from N64 games and so they backed off with GC development. Now you see developers who last gen didn't pay much attention to the N64 suddenly supporting the GC. Next gen their support will likely be telling of exactly how they felt about the sales of their games on teh GC.

 

[jarrod]

The reason Konami didn't support the Gamecube is because they were one of the few third parties who heavily supported the N64 (Konami released something like 20 N64 games), and they lost millions of dollars supporting the N64 (they even had to shut down one of their studios), so obviously they decided it wasn't a good idea to repeat the same mistake and support the Gamecube.

I'd like to see this sourced if possible? Which studio are you talking about being shut down? Power Pro, ISS, Gomeon and Castlevania were all decent hits on N64 for Konami really.

Not surprisingly, Capcom and Namco, having virtually ignored the N64, gave the Gamecube a little bit more chance, releasing some exclusives or first-year exclusives. I'm sure Namco is happy with Tales of Symphonia's sales. But Capcom is probably reluctant to do major business with Nintendo now (they got rid of their most Nintendo friendly executive, Okamoto, and demoted Mikami).

Actually it was Okamoto and Mikami that both jumped ship. And Okamoto always pushed for PS2 support first and foremost.

 

[ourumov]

As I pointed out, I doubt either Namco, Capcom or Konami do appear in any serious form in the Revolution...But that's just me.


Not only because they fear of bad sales but also because as I pointed out, Konami is extremelly cautious with huge risks now.
Look at the 32 bit era:

The Sega Saturn had Suikoden, Vandal Hearts, Salamander, Parodius, Snatcher, Policenauts, Crypt Killer !!!!
I would say that this is pretty good support for the 3rd system in the race ! Then again if N64 had used a less risky format it would have seen them as well... (go to hell Miyamoto for having chosen cartridge over CD, GO TO HELL !!! )

I'd like to see this sourced if possible? Which studio are you talking about being shut down? Power Pro, ISS, Gomeon and Castlevania were all decent hits on N64 for Konami really.

I believe the Pellham news. Mainly because the following:

1. Both KCEO and KCEK closed doors (and they were the strongest N64 supporters).

2. When you are in doubt of bad sales, look to the PAL market and take a look at prices. In Spain all those Konami games retailed for 13000-15000 Spanish pesetas from Year 1999 which is like 100€ of today. Crazy ? A bit ! There were a lot of games in the normal 50€ range...just that they weren't from Konami.

 

[Firest0rm]

As I pointed out, I doubt either Namco, Capcom or Konami do appear in any serious form in the Revolution...But that's just me.


Not only because they fear of bad sales but also because as I pointed out, Konami is extremelly cautious with huge risks now.
Look at the 32 bit era:

The Sega Saturn had Suikoden, Vandal Hearts, Salamander, Parodius, Snatcher, Policenauts, Crypt Killer !!!!
I would say that this is pretty good support for the 3rd system in the race ! Then again if N64 had used a less risky format it would have seen them as well... (go to hell Miyamoto for having chosen cartridge over CD, GO TO HELL !!! )

Explain why Namco wouldn't? What would be their reasoning for it based on how their games have done GC?

 

[jarrod]

Yep Pellham, KCEO/KCEK had to close mainly because the lackluster sales of their products and they were pretty talented guys.

All the humour Konami has was there. Even though sometimes people says Parodius team was a KCET thing I believe that the roots were in Osaka. Otherwise I can't understand how Osaka's Goemon games are god while KCET's ones are evil.

Long life to KCEO and KCEK.

Of course I am not defending KCEN and KCEUSA or KCE Haway...which have proven they were useless.

KCEO was merged with KCES, and that was well after they'd moved almost entirely to PS2 (in 2002 iirc). The problem there was that Power Pro & ISS weren't bringing it in like they were on PS1/N64.

KCEO was Konami's only real "pro-N64" house though, KCEK was evenly multiplatform (developing for PS1, GB/GBC & Saturn as well). They merged with KCET to bolster their GBA support mainly, but Goemon PS2 flopping likely didn't help matters.

 

[neo2046]

maybe you cannot believe
I just search konami's official HP,
Konami has already released around 30 titles for GC in Japan :lol
of course they are not big titles as you and I expect

http://www.konami.jp/gs/platform.php?condition=0&before=0&platform=4&nameturn=11&offset=0

 

[ourumov]

I believe Castlevania was a KCEK effort....Anyways, the PS2 Goemon was done in KCET if I remember correctly.


Anyways, closing doors or merging...Isn't the same ? Now the ones that rule are the KCET guys. Sure a lot of you appreciate them to death but for me Konami was a lot more than the four mainstream franchises people loves.

 

[Zerodoppler]

Yep Pellham, KCEO/KCEK had to close mainly because the lackluster sales of their products and they were pretty talented guys.

Son of a bitch! Now I know why the last couple of Goemon games have sucked ass and why we haven't got any Parodius or TwinBee sequels.

Damn you Nintendo! ((

 

[ourumov]

As I pointed out, I don't have the slightest about where is the EXACT location of the almighty Parodius team.

But if they told me that the people behind Goemon and Parodius are the same guys I wouldn't be surprised because it is the same kind of humour.


Anyways Parodius SS/PSX games were labeled as KCET efforts...

 

[cja]

KCEO got merged with KCES after failing on Xbox and PS2 in the US market, it had long since moved away from Nintendo platforms. It was the concentration on shoddy sports games rather than their original IP that was the downfall. The ESPN range of games on PS2 and Xbox were lucky to hit five figure numbers but that wasn't the reason KCEO got folded into KCES, no, it was the millions of copies of ISS and Power Pro sold on N64 that was their mistake! Absurd.

Konami, Bandai/Banpresto and to a lesser extent Sega, Squenix, Namco and Capcom all see Nintendo as a competitor first and partner second. It is Nintendo who are likely to take software sales away from Yu-gi-oh, Gundam, Megaman, Sonic, et al. Sony don't offer the same threat, especially not in Japan, Ape Escape and Ratchet & Clank hardly cut into 3rd party sales like Pokemon and Mario do. This is the main reason why 3rd parties don't support Nintendo, nothing to do with hardware, development support, media type.. thats all a fluffy excuse from those too scared to admit the truth or are too busy playing with their money hats. Its the same in the US, Nintendo are the no.2 software provider, MS were no.6 last year (and won't be anywhere near as high this with Halo sales now dead and Halo 2 not offering long legs) with Sony at no.7.

GC got a Winning Eleven in the beginning IIRC. Perhaps it sold so poorly that Konami ended support after that.

Konami only announced that port in Famitsu after the PS2 version went on sale! It was 16 months after the GC's release btw.

 

[ourumov]

GC got a Winning Eleven in the beginning IIRC. Perhaps it sold so poorly that Konami ended support after that.

19000 units against the 400000+ of the PS2 one...Excellent sales some will say.

KCEO got merged with KCES after failing on Xbox and PS2 in the US market, it had long since moved away from Nintendo platforms

That was just the first step. First Konami removed all the freedom they had to do their own projects and just send them to do stupid sport titles. Then the merge came.


I was pretty impressed about how Hybrid Heaven turned to be considering this was their first Sci-Fi title. And then it came the cancelation of Survivor: Day One...

 

[jarrod]

I believe Castlevania was a KCEK effort....Anyways, the PS2 Goemon was done in KCET if I remember correctly.

Neo Gomeon PS2 was finished by KCEK right before the KCET aquisition. It bombing might've helped the move happen.

Castlevania 64 sold pretty well actually (350k+ in the US alone), plus KCEK reused the engine for a quick upgraded sequel/remake (which sold 100k+ here iirc). It was probably KCEK's best selling game last gen actually... way better than any of their Saturn/PS1 releases.

Anyways, closing doors or merging...Isn't the same ? Now the ones that rule are the KCET guys. Sure a lot of you appreciate them to death but for me Konami was a lot more than the four mainstream franchises people loves.

Merging is different. KCEO and KCES merged, KCET absorbed KCEK and KCEN.

Would you also say then, the current merger of KCEJ, KCET, KCES and Konami Online is due to them underperforming thanks to their PS2 support? With long running PlayStation hits like MGS, Suikoden, Silent Hill, ZOE, DDR and pretty much everything but WE selling progressively less and less?

 

[Particle Physicist]

But Capcom is probably reluctant to do major business with Nintendo now (they got rid of their most Nintendo friendly executive, Okamoto, and demoted Mikami).

which is interesting because i remember hearing that their gc games were the only ones to hit their target sales..

 

[radioheadrule83]

I think when compared with Gamecube:
Konami, Capcom, Namco and SEGA support will be excellent.

It's a good meal you can have every freaking day for gods sake!

 

[Drexon]

the cold shoulder

they probably just feel like they cant make much money on a GC title. I cant explain why they think castlevania will sell more on XBOX, though.

You can take your shoulder and shovel it!

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

They were burned by the cartridge format, Capcom and Namco didn't give much support. There isn't any baggage from last gen, thats why you see the support. I don't think they're going anywhere, its not like they have had great software sales this gen on the PS2. There sales are nothing compared to last gen.

And supporting the Cube with Disney titles was dumb anyway.

 

[ourumov]

Neo Gomeon PS2 was finished by KCEK right before the KCET aquisition. It bombing might've helped the move happen.

Neo Goemon PS2 was whatever but a KCEO/KCEK effort in the sense that it was ugly. I could understand it was started by KCET or KCEN (worst Konami developer in ages, having the milestone of making the SS SOTN port look worse than the PSX one despite being a stronger 2D hardware).
Ok, you are saying KCET send them the hot potatoe and that was the reason of the merge ? Highly unlikelly. Besides I refuse to consider them responsable for that ABERRATION.

Anyways, later appeared the GBA Goemon (Goemon of the Future) which also was made by KCET...Which I also refuse to consider anything near to KCEK/KCEO.

 

[ourumov]

And supporting the Cube with Disney titles was dumb anyway.

Japanese vendettas can be pretty acid sometimes...

 

[Kon Tiki]

So why did Konami give GC the cold hand?

Konami made Nintendo piss the bed?

 

[dog$]

Why? Because they could.

Until someone from KCEJ posts in this thread, I think my answer is just as valid as anyone else's.

 

[jarrod]

Neo Goemon PS2 was whatever but a KCEO/KCEK effort in the sense that it was ugly. I could understand it was started by KCET or KCEN (worst Konami developer in ages, having the milestone of making the SS SOTN port look worse than the PSX one despite being a stronger 2D hardware).
Ok, you are saying KCET send them the hot potatoe and that was the reason of the merge ? Highly unlikelly. Besides I refuse to consider them responsable for that ABERRATION.

Anyways, later appeared the GBA Goemon (Goemon of the Future) which also was made by KCET...Which I also refuse to consider anything near to KCEK/KCEO.

Neo Goemon was developed (and released) by KCEK entirely. Almost immediately after it failed at market, they were absorbed into KCET... I'm just saying it might've been a factor. Certainly more of a factor than the N64 Castlevanias which cleared half a million years earlier. I'm still sure no Konami team was shut down due to their N64 support.

KCET released Neo Goemon GBA, which was likely made by former KCEK staff imo. KCEK also did some of the PS1 Goemons.

 

[ourumov]

Shit Jarrod...You are making me wanna purchase that ABERRATION just to see the credits and compare it with other KCEK games because that sounds highly unlikelly to me.

About the PSX games, I don't know a lot about them. I haven't played Goemon on the PSX despite more or less I know the Goemon legacy there.

 

[Barnimal]

:lol COLD HAND :lol

 

[jarrod]

Found my old Goemon games list... seems KCEK didn't actually make any of the PS1 Goemons...

Konami Comptuer Entertainment Osaka (Team Goemon)
-Ganbare Goemon 2: Kiteretsu Shôgun Magginesu! (SFC) 1993
-Ganbare Goemon 3: Shishi Jûroku Hyôe no Karakuri Manji Katame! (SFC) 1994
-Ganbare Goemon: Kira Kira Douchuu: Boku ga Dancer ni Natta Riyuu! (SFC) 1995
-Ganbare Goemon: Neo Momoyama Bakufu no Odori! (N64) 1997
-Ganbare Goemon: Dero Dero Douchuu Obake Tenkomori! (N64) 1998

Konami Comptuer Entertainment Nagoya
-Ganbare Goemon: Uchukaizoku Akogingu! (PS) 1996
-Ganbare Goemon: Kurofune-tó no Naso! (GB) 1997
-Ganbare Goemon: Kurunarakoi! Ayashigeikka no Kuroikage! (PS) 1998

Konami Comptuer Entertainment Tokyo (absorbed KCEN & KCEK)
-Ganbare Goemon: Oedo Daikaiten! (PS) 2001
-Goemon Neo Age Shutsudou! (GBA) 2002

Konami Comptuer Entertainment Japan
-Ganbare Goemon: Tengu-tó no Gyakushú! (GBC) 1999

Konami Comptuer Entertainment Kobe
-Ganbare Goemon: Mononoke Douchuu Tobidase Nabe-Bugyou! (GBC) 1999
-Goemon Mononoke Sugoroku! (N64) 1999
-Ganbare Goemon: Seikuushi Dainamaittsu Arawaru! (GBC) 2000
-Bouken Katsugeki Goemon! (PS2) 2000

Konami Comptuer Entertainment Studio (absorbed KCEO/Team Goemon)
-Kessakusen! Ganbare Goemon 1+2 (GBA) 2004
-Ganbare Goemon: Toukai Douchuu! (DS) 2005


...and here's the pic to prove Goemon PS2 being a KCEK only effort...

 

[Musashi Wins!]

-Goemon Neo Age Shutsudou! (GBA) 2002
-Kessakusen! Ganbare Goemon 1+2 (GBA) 2004

Because I can't keep clear what you guys are saying about each team and it's respective merits...

Are either of these worth getting?

 

[ourumov]

The second one yes (ports of Goemon 1+2). The first one sucks IMO.

 

[jarrod]

Because I can't keep clear what you guys are saying about each team and it's respective merits...

Are either of these worth getting?

Basically, anything from Team Goemon/KCEO/KCES is worth getting. Avoid the rest.

 

[shuri]

 

[Musashi Wins!]

thank you. also, i see 3 n64 Goemons. As far as I know, we only got 2 here (in the US) and they came out in reverse order. Were the two released here both by Team Goemon? They were very different.