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[IlGialloMondadori]

I live in a country that doesn't respect artists but most people on this planet have been indoctrinated into thinking that artists are special snowflakes and art is special.

Art is special. Think of the foundation of western civilization. Shakespeare, Homer, The Republic, The Histories, The Aeneid, etc etc etc. The Beatles, Beethoven, Bach, Mozart, great films, great plays.

You're a moron if you don't think art is special.

No one thinks that artists are special snowflakes other than idiots who don't understand what art is. The works they make are special and great art is important.

If you think prompting an AI will give you anything interesting, ever, you're wrong.

I think this is a mostly western thing, east/japan dont care.

Real "I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it" vibes here.

 

[nemiroff]

What's with all the AI hype? Normally, if a game advertise X feature (aka power of the cloud, OnLive) it was normally received skeptically and rightfully so. So how is it the we haven't seen any fully proved AI concept in a game and suddenly you're acting as it's becoming the 2nd coming of R*.

Man, I can't believe I miss the good old PS3 era where so many games have to prove they are worth the hype. How about show us before we come to device if AI is actually benefitial.

The best use of AI is where you won't notice it.

AI/ML/LLMs..., I mean, let's be real, we should be referring to these as just another tool in the toolbox here.

...But unfortunately, as always, there are lousy devs in the scene trying to find ways to exploit the new trend for a quick cash grab. We'll never completely get rid of them. We just need to keep supporting good games and developers as a whole.

 

[Felessan]

Art is special. Think of the foundation of western civilization. Shakespeare, Homer, The Republic, The Histories, The Aeneid, etc etc etc. The Beatles, Beethoven, Bach, Mozart, great films, great plays.

That art college snowflakes argument
99% of art is not an art but craft, same as any other job. Most of art in games, pictures and even series/movie is toncreate artistic representation to target spec you have been told - it's not like game artists are free to express their artistic vision during making a game, they are to follow guidelines set by higher ups.

 

[calico]

I don't like the bubble metaphor. It gives the impression that once it bursts, everything is gone and all of that activity amounted to nothing.

The 'bubble' is merely a reflection of the frantic melee to see who will come up holding the prize. The bubble 'bursting' is an inevitable part of the process. Sometimes the prize will turn out to have been imaginary all along -and in those cases the bubble/bursting metaphor would be appropriate- but often the prize is very real. Most will lose their gamble, but this does not mean the gamble was a mistake at the time it was made, or that the 'bubble' occurring was a mistake.

If you think prompting an AI will give you anything interesting, ever, you're wrong.

I would like to see this supposition blind tested going forward.

 

[IlGialloMondadori]

That art college snowflakes argument
99% of art is not an art but craft, same as any other job. Most of art in games, pictures and even series/movie is toncreate artistic representation to target spec you have been told - it's not like game artists are free to express their artistic vision during making a game, they are to follow guidelines set by higher ups.

I agree with you. It is a craft, and a job. That doesn't mean what they create isn't great, and necessary, and it doesn't mean I want AI vomit instead of someone actually doing the job well.

 

[Felessan]

I agree with you. It is a craft, and a job. That doesn't mean what they create isn't great, and necessary, and it doesn't mean I want AI vomit instead of someone actually doing the job well.

Personally for craft items I don't care where they are handcrafted or are made by tools (and current AI is a tool which results heavily depends on skills of user)
For me in crafted item only end quality is what matters. If it's a nice pictures made with AI, and I saw quite some very carefully crafted ones - I am completely fine and for sure will chose them over some junior artist generic and ugly slop.

 

[Odinnii]

Real "I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it" vibes here.

I'm no expert but I just don't hear bitching from people like you when Ne Zha II became the biggest animated movie ever or when AKB 48 released a single written by AI for example.

Also I never heard of wide scale strikes by actors/writers/VA's over AI like the SAG stuff in the US.

 

[StueyDuck]

People accepted DLSS because they perceived it as purely beneficial, whereas with GenAI, the actual purpose behind it is way more obviously bad to the general audience.

But hey, you bringing up DLSS and literally making the point I'm about to make for me ("can't play ... without") in your own post about why people should reject this is funny. See you're trying to frame it as a positive and I'm sure most people at the time thought it was a positive and maybe it would've been in an ideal world. Thing is it's not an ideal world and we now know how DLSS is used. As a crutch that is basically required to run most games at an acceptable framerate, that frees up devs from properly optimizing the game, because 'hey, they can just turn on upscalling'. We are now left with shittier image quality, bad optimization, ugly motion artifacts and input delay if you turn on framegen, especially at lower framerates. And you have to deal with it cause the game is built with that in mind. So what we got is an enshittified product once again that the companies are pushing at the expense of the user, when past games didn't have some of these issues. Are there some small benefits off DLSS ? Sure, but I'm not sure they outweigh the negatives. GenAi is/will be no different.

Completely ignoring the economic, ethical, environmental concerns with GenAI, the reason that the ordinary consumer is going to receive worse products is why people should and must reject this garbage.

"Why the hell do so many gamers hate ai?". Well the actual question is why do so many idiots still clap like seals for something that is clearly not in their best interest. Thankfully, the fact that the original question is posed means that some are finally waking up.

I mean, your entire gotcha post seems to miss the forest for the trees here, you literally proving entirely my point as well as the hypocrisy behind it all.

 

[MagusMajul]

Because many gamers are cool nerds, creative nerds, that want to make money doing jobs that AI is threatening.

Programming.
Web dev.
Software dev.
Game dev.
Concept artist.
Marketing.
Art direction.
Photo editing.
Etc
Etc
Etc

All of these and many more creative jobs are threatened by AI. And the broad public has little to no clue about the importance of talented creatives doing these jobs, so this sector already feels a bit unseen. AI only makes this worse.

My quick thoughts, I teach and work in the creative sector/art scene.

why not use it as a tool for that end rather than as an impediment?

 

[Kacho]

I don't like the bubble metaphor. It gives the impression that once it bursts, everything is gone and all of that activity amounted to nothing.

The 'bubble' is merely a reflection of the frantic melee to see who will come up holding the prize. The bubble 'bursting' is an inevitable part of the process. Sometimes the prize will turn out to have been imaginary all along -and in those cases the bubble/bursting metaphor would be appropriate- but often the prize is very real. Most will lose their gamble, but this does not mean the gamble was a mistake at the time it was made, or that the 'bubble' occurring was a mistake.


I would like to see this supposition blind tested going forward.

Yeah, it's like the search engine race of the early 2000s. They're all fighting for the next Google. Though the stakes feel much, much higher this time around.

 

[StueyDuck]

None of what you said is true. We don't have to do anything. Nothing is necessarily happening. Stop making up a pretend enemy artist that is losing their job, as though it's okay for anyone to lose their job to a pile of shit making machine.
You can pick and choose what is an acceptable usage of the technology. That's how it works. Like nuclear power is acceptable. Dropping nuclear bombs is not. Bitcoin fine. NFTs fuck off.

Grow a spine and stop sucking off shit companies and their dipshit CEOs for your serving of slop.

See you in 10 years bud...

If you think using generative ai to help build out an asset equates to actual sentient artificial intelligence that nukes Merica then ive got a horse to sell you.

Its a toolset my man.

 

[IlGialloMondadori]

I don't like the bubble metaphor. It gives the impression that once it bursts, everything is gone and all of that activity amounted to nothing.

The 'bubble' is merely a reflection of the frantic melee to see who will come up holding the prize. The bubble 'bursting' is an inevitable part of the process. Sometimes the prize will turn out to have been imaginary all along -and in those cases the bubble/bursting metaphor would be appropriate- but often the prize is very real. Most will lose their gamble, but this does not mean the gamble was a mistake at the time it was made, or that the 'bubble' occurring was a mistake.


I would like to see this supposition blind tested going forward.

See you in 10 years bud...

If you think using generative ai to help build out an asset equates to actual sentient artificial intelligence that nukes Merica then ive got a horse to sell you.

Its a toolset my man.

I don't think it's a sentient intelligence at all. I think it's pretty bad at a lot of things and companies use it to make garbage on the cheap.

 

[Lokaum D+]

Game is ART, you cant do ART without SOUL, look at Ubisoft games.

 

[BloodFree]

I mean, your entire gotcha post seems to miss the forest for the trees here, you literally proving entirely my point as well as the hypocrisy behind it all.

Nah nah, don't play that game, the whole "no u, this is beneath me" thing doesn't work with me. Notice how when I engaged with your post, I addressed and attacked your statement and provided arguments to support my position. Do the same and actually engage with the arguments that I presented. Also feel free to elaborate on said hypocrisy, and said forest that has been missed. Or don't and take the L gracefully, since it's hard to argue with what I said, because it's what actually is happening currently.

 

[BattleScar]

why not use it as a tool for that end rather than as an impediment?

Because it causes your ability and creativity to atrophy.
You're not exercising the parts of your brain that need to do difficult things like think, because lil robot will do it for you and you can just tweak things here and there.

All of the beautiful things we have in the world are build by the thousands of hours of tiny little mistakes the people who made them, made along their journey.

Do you think we'd get Abbey Road by the Beatles from AI? Do you think we'd get the Mona Lisa or the Sistine Chapel? Do you think we'd get 2001: A Space Odyssey?
In video game terms, would we get the incredible music from Hollow Knight, from an AI? Or the beautiful art from Ori and the Blind Forest?

AI just takes an aggregate of every single thing humans have put on the internet, and then scrambles it up and regurgitates that assimilated slop based on your prompts. Would those shitty little Miyazaki style profile pics even exist without the Ghibli films that Miyazaki made to begin with? The answer is no. Because the talentless fucks who use those kinds of profile pics lack the facilities to make something like that to begin with.

Just like from time to time, we need to do mental arithmetic or a Sudoku puzzle to keep ourselves sharp, or read fucking books. Or just read. To stop our brains from turning to mush. AI basically removes any need for us to think for ourselves. Instead we just get what the AI (and whomever made it) wants us to think.

 

[crackajack]

The haters either don't understand the foundations of art, which is usually the base of criticism or are rightfully afraid of the future. Either way it can't really be stopped. The latter is imho a much bigger problem. I have yet to hear an argument how replacing basically all of human jobs will be possible without purging mankind itself. Even the superrich of today should be very afraid, since all their riches are created by having thousands or millions of people below them. If AI is above them, just by being more competent and powerful in the end, they have a problem too.

 

[Felessan]

Do you think we'd get Abbey Road by the Beatles from AI? Do you think we'd get the Mona Lisa or the Sistine Chapel? Do you think we'd get 2001: A Space Odyssey?
In video game terms, would we get the incredible music from Hollow Knight, from an AI? Or the beautiful art from Ori and the Blind Forest?

Yes and we will get them ~faster~
AI doesn't do anything by itself, it kinda far from this point. It's done it by users interactions
As there is thousands of talentless writers that fill internet with their trash writers and thousands of trash artists who draw ugly pictures, there are thousands of stupid people with no sense of art who write prompts and that dump their result into cess put known as internet.
But there will be people with good artistic sense skilled in prompting who will produce masterpieces.
It's shift a bit balance from artist to critic but nevertheless art will be produced.

AI just takes an aggregate of every single thing humans have put on the internet, and then scrambles it up and regurgitates that assimilated slop based on your prompts. Would those shitty little Miyazaki style profile pics even exist without the Ghibli films that Miyazaki made to begin with? The answer is no. Because the talentless fucks who use those kinds of profile pics lack the facilities to make something like that to begin with.

99% people draw identical pictures (because they have neither skill no artistic sense), so are 99% people writing prompts.
By the nature of AI it can blend styles and it's not like Miyadzaki is completely original, he also inherited a lot from previous creators blending it into his style. But to get that from AI require a lot of efforts from user writing prompts, knowledge and experience, and most just want a quick slop job so they get a slop result.

Just like from time to time, we need to do mental arithmetic or a Sudoku puzzle to keep ourselves sharp, or read fucking books. Or just read. To stop our brains from turning to mush. AI basically removes any need for us to think for ourselves. Instead we just get what the AI (and whomever made it) wants us to think.

If people want to be stupid - they will be stupid. Overuse of most modern technology - YouTube, TikTok, AI, even Google or simply smartphone with it's maps, calendar etc make you dumber. It's up to you to control negative impact on mentality or cave-in into "easy" life

 

[Hypereides]

These things aren't the same. People liked the internet when it started, the internet created jobs and created all kinds of new businesses and opportunities, while AI is about removing jobs and not replacing them, just paying AI companies. The internet was about freedom of information, not control and consolidation of information.

I think a more apt comparison is blockchain and NFTs. The scam was pushed hard for a while.

Remember when everyone was going to use NFTs and it was going to revolutionise gaming?

Parts of AI are useful, and then huge parts of it are fucking terrible. And the gold rush at the moment is just a stupid ass scam bet on AGI in the short term.

The advancement of the modern internet was also conducted, and studied, under way more careful and safer circumstances, in a closed environment, too. It wasn't rolled out without specific tests being performed first, even though people eventually figured out ways to exploit it down the line.

Because it causes your ability and creativity to atrophy.
You're not exercising the parts of your brain that need to do difficult things like think, because lil robot will do it for you and you can just tweak things here and there.

All of the beautiful things we have in the world are build by the thousands of hours of tiny little mistakes the people who made them, made along their journey.

Do you think we'd get Abbey Road by the Beatles from AI? Do you think we'd get the Mona Lisa or the Sistine Chapel? Do you think we'd get 2001: A Space Odyssey?
In video game terms, would we get the incredible music from Hollow Knight, from an AI? Or the beautiful art from Ori and the Blind Forest?

AI just takes an aggregate of every single thing humans have put on the internet, and then scrambles it up and regurgitates that assimilated slop based on your prompts. Would those shitty little Miyazaki style profile pics even exist without the Ghibli films that Miyazaki made to begin with? The answer is no. Because the talentless fucks who use those kinds of profile pics lack the facilities to make something like that to begin with.

Just like from time to time, we need to do mental arithmetic or a Sudoku puzzle to keep ourselves sharp, or read fucking books. Or just read. To stop our brains from turning to mush. AI basically removes any need for us to think for ourselves. Instead we just get what the AI (and whomever made it) wants us to think.

I echo this sentiment. People up in the corporate hierarchy can't distinguish between a stick figure drawing and something like a Salvador Dali painting. Its all the same to them.

 

[StueyDuck]

Nah nah, don't play that game, the whole "no u, this is beneath me" thing doesn't work with me. Notice how when I engaged with your post, I addressed and attacked your statement and provided arguments to support my position. Do the same and actually engage with the arguments that I presented. Also feel free to elaborate on said hypocrisy, and said forest that has been missed. Or don't and take the L gracefully, since it's hard to argue with what I said, because it's what actually is happening currently.

My man im not sure what war you think you are fighting here..

But good luck I suppose

 

[StueyDuck]

I don't think it's a sentient intelligence at all. I think it's pretty bad at a lot of things and companies use it to make garbage on the cheap.

Choose a lane then

 

[calico]

I would argue that removing or lessening the requirement of technical ability should unleash untapped creativity rather than restrict creativity.

 

[BloodFree]

My man im not sure what war you think you are fighting here..

But good luck I suppose

Yeah, that's right, you got nothing, as I thought. Second post where you refused to engage with me on actual arguments, you got demolished. Take the L bro and I'll take my W. Thanks for your best wishes

 

[IlGialloMondadori]

Choose a lane then

What are you talking about? My lane is that AI has its uses where it is helpful. When it is used as a tool in specific ways, it is fine. Searching vast quantities of data, upscaling tech like DLSS, finding patterns in that data, documentation help, boiler plate, etc. When it is used to create things, like songs, or art, or writing, it is terrible, and even if you like it, I don't think it should be used in that way to replace humans. We don't have an issue at the moment with the cost of people doing art design or art. It's cheap. We don't need an endless supply of slop, there is enough content out there.
It's being used right now in a lot of terrible ways, like shitty videos, trying to replace actors, horrible writing, crappy songs, etc. It's being used to replace humans with things that are worse. I hate the companies and the CEOs.

 

[nnytk]

why not use it as a tool for that end rather than as an impediment?

Imo that's how we should all be using it and that's how I am using it. But AI will lead to jobs being cut in many fields and there will be even less of a foothold in society for artists. Whom are already vulnerable.

I live in the EU, where I hope things will get regulated in time. Workers need protection, more than ever. But anyway, I don't want to drag this out into a lengthy discussion or whatever.