Somali pirates shoot at US warship, kill American hostages

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B.K. said:
This. Just let the navy ships fire on the pirates as soon as they spot them.
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Pirate ships don't sail black skull and crossbone flags. They look just like any other fishing ship, except they're hiding guns. Unless you search every fishing ship for guns, there is no way to know if they are a pirate ship. Hell even normal fishing ships may have guns to protect themselves from pirates, so that's not even a reliable test.

The only way to know if a ship is a pirate ship is to see them hijack another ship.
 
antonz said:
Thomas Jefferson felt like I do on the situation and sent the Navy over to that side of the world to kick the shit out of the pirates for Piracy against US vessels.

So I dont feel like I am in poor company when Jefferson felt as I do
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k. Not sure why you even responded to me.
 
xbhaskarx said:
So if the imam who wants to build a mosque in lower Manhattan was attacked and killed by a mob, would you be cool with that?
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Comparing lower Manhattan to Somalia. Really?

How many hostages have been killed thus far.

B.K. said:
This. Just let the navy ships fire on the pirates as soon as they spot them.
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All the more reason for the hostages.
 
antonz said:
Thomas Jefferson felt like I do on the situation and sent the Navy over to that side of the world to kick the shit out of the pirates for Piracy against US vessels.

So I dont feel like I am in poor company when Jefferson felt as I do
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There's a difference between wanting to attack pirates, and wanting to literally destroy the entire coastline and effectively the entire country. Rather than doing that, its as simple as either:
A.Telling people not to travel through that area
B.Ensuring that people who absolutely must travel by boat are protected
C.Attacking the conditions that allow piracy to exist rather than wasting money, time, and other resources just killing people

You don't fight pirates with bombs, you fight them with books, farms, secure government and trading opportunities. Many Somalians are pirates because they've literally got no where else to go. I'm not condoning their actions, but there's more to the issue than just "we're the good guys, they're the bad guys. We kill the bad guys and all is right in the world."
 
ChiTownBuffalo said:
Yeah, because they hid all the Bibles underneath the floorboards of the boat, like Han Fucking Solo hides spice during the Kessel Run. They made a concerted effort to not let people know what they were up to.

You don't know how missionaries work. Very rarely to missionaries go anywhere and loudly announce, "Hey everybody! We're Christians and we're here to bring the Word of God to you!"

They got targeted because they were in an obviously recreational vessel, that people of a certain income class can afford. Their missionary work wasn't the cause, for their hijacking.
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It's kind of infuriating and scary at the same time that people in this thread actually think it's ok to treat missionaries or more specifically someone of faith differently, including and up to blaming them for getting killed because of some prejudice against religion.

There's a tendency to idealize 'hate' as a kind of pure evil that only Joseph Stalin or some crazed individual can muster. But there's ample evidence regular people - tolerated massacres and genocides in history because they can rationalize in their head that the victims somehow deserved it, or that they are 'aliens' that need to be exterminated.

It's really amazing to think that kind of logic can be thrown around so casually here like it is some kind of reasonable argument.
 
Igo said:
Comparing lower Manhattan to Somalia. Really?

How many hostages have been killed thus far.
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No, he's comparing an Imam to Christian Missionaries.
 
Deku said:
Only way to take on the pirates is to invade and stabilize Somalia.

This is the perfect case study for a justifiable invasion.

Instead we have Iraq muddying up the discourse, and bleeding hearts thinking any invasion is immoral.
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2it1lsm.gif
 
Deku said:
Only way to take on the pirates is to invade and stabilize Somalia.

This is the perfect case study for a justifiable invasion.

Instead we have Iraq muddying up the discourse, and bleeding hearts thinking any invasion is immoral.
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hahahaha
 
They weren't off the coast of Somalia yet when they were captured, they were 190 miles from Oman.
The Blue Water Rally said in a statement Tuesday that though yachtsmen are discouraged from sailing in the region, the only other choices are to sail around the stormy and dangerous tip of South Africa or sail back across the Pacific.
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They were sailing around the world, and they were on their way to the Suez canal, which means they pretty much had to go by Somalia.

It was risky and they paid the price, but it isn't like they just blundered up to Somalia waving Bibles.
 
vordhosbn said:
hahahaha
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That is not an argument.

Same reason :lol was disabled. But continue with your deep and insightful analysis of the foreign policy matters of the 21st century.

I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
 
We should legalize the sale of laser guided RPGs to Americas with sail boats.

The problems solves itself after that.

"Honey, I think I see a pirate boat"

"I got this"

"Direct hit! Nice aim baby!"


*toast*

*boat sex*
 
Well, killing hostages that the US attempts to rescue does make a lot of sense from the pirate industry's perspective. The pirates are doing what they have to in order to ensure the survival of their line of work for others. (I don't condone it, but I understand their reasons for doing it.)

So the big question is, like before, what the international community should do now. The only idea I can think of to counter the pirates' no-rescue-no-matter-what policy is a hostages-dead-means-all-involved-pirates-die. Of course, the pirates would have to know that this is the new policy. They can not expect to slaughter a group of hostages and then come out with their hands up, ready to go to jail unharmed.

EDIT: This doesn't actually solve the bigger problem. I won't pretend to have the slightest idea how I think that one could be approached.
 
Deku said:
image blocked. explain in text.
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Cowboy riding off with "fuck this thread"

I think way too many people here are commenting without really knowing much about Somalia. Invading a country to put up a new regime never works. Couple that in with the fact that UN and African Union soldiers have been fighting warlords in Somalia for YEARS its kind of arrogant and insulting to think that the U.S. can show up and teach them how to govern themselves.

Besides, they have no oil.
 
somalipiratemap_244x183.jpg

The Adams had been sailing with The Blue Water Rally, which planned to sail together for safety reasons, as it headed from Mumbai to the Gulf of Aden on its way to the Suez Canal.

But the Adams chose to break off from the group and head alone for Salalah in Oman. They were easy pickings, boarded by pirates 275 miles off the coast.
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CBS

EDIT: The blue line is the course of the Blue Water Rally, a convoy of ships planning to make the dangerous passage together.

The red line is the hijacked boat, which for some reason broke off and sailed farther south.
 
I wonder if the new kill hostage policy is a reaction to the South Korean raid on that hijacked ship.
 
Arthrus said:
Well, killing hostages that the US attempts to rescue does make a lot of sense from the pirate industry's perspective. The pirates are doing what they have to in order to ensure the survival of their line of work for others. (I don't condone it, but I understand their reasons for doing it.)

So the big question is, like before, what the international community should do now. The only idea I can think of to counter the pirates' no-rescue-no-matter-what policy is a hostages-dead-means-all-involved-pirates-die. Of course, the pirates would have to know that this is the new policy. They can not expect to slaughter a group of hostages and then come out with their hands up, ready to go to jail unharmed.
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current detterence is more or less sending patrols to deter some attacks, and paying the pirates to rescue cargo and hostages. With the occasional coup when it's an American or Russian boats that get hijacked and both countries go after the pirates. But usually ransom is paid quietly.

Essentially there is no real policy on somalia.

The only way to stop piracy is to fix the situation on land. And you can't fix that by wishing it or donating to Oxfam. You need to land troops to stabilize the country.
 
Deku said:
image blocked. explain in text.
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It's a gif showing my distaste of your comment by saying "fuck this thread"


I could have talked about how invading Somalia is not really a good idea and how I actually do think that almost every invasion immoral, but since I don't have this much time I posted this simple pic.
 
Deku said:
That is not an argument.

Same reason :lol was disabled. But continue with your deep and insightful analysis of the foreign policy matters of the 21st century.

I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
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Wait, you think you're providing a "deep and thoughtful analysis"? Well thanks for justifying my previous post.

I wouldn't hold anyone here to such expectations. None of us are experts, I just felt like commenting on your noteworthy, hilarious contribution.
 
Maybe we should sit down and educate the Somalis and teach them that it is not ok to shoot up hostages.

Especially if the hostages are American.

Unless they're this guy.
 
Kinyou said:
It's a gif showing my distaste of your comment by saying "fuck this thread"


I could have talked about how invading Somalia is not really a good idea and how I actually do think that almost every invasion immoral, but since I don't have this much time I posted this simple pic.
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Fair enough. But what is your proposed alternative.

Wishing upon a star is not an option.
 
Srsly said:
I'm trying to feel sympathy for world-traveling evangelists that were dumb enough to end up off the Somalian coast, but I just can't.
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Next time get your facts straight. They were hundreds of miles away from Somalia. They were near Oman I believed which isn't a danger zone. They were just at the wrong place at the worng time.
 
How the hell can pirates of the sea still be in a dominating position in 2011? We got jet fighters n shit and yet this is a problem.

Fix your problems world
 
Guevara said:
somalipiratemap_244x183.jpg


CBS

EDIT: The blue line is the course of the Blue Water Rally, a convoy of ships planning to make the dangerous passage together.

The red line is the hijacked boat, which for some reason broke off and sailed farther south.
Click to expand...
Added to OP.
 
Deku said:
current detterence is more or less sending patrols to deter some attacks, and paying the pirates to rescue cargo and hostages. With the occasional coup when it's an American or Russian boats that get hijacked and both countries go after the pirates. But usually ransom is paid quietly.

Essentially there is no real policy on somalia.

The only way to stop piracy is to fix the situation on land. And you can't fix that by wishing it or donating to Oxfam. You need to land troops to stabilize the country.
Click to expand...

No real policy? Wow...

My thoughts were supposed to be directly toward the actual response to the killing of hostages so that they couldn't be rescued. When it comes to the bigger picture, I don't have enough information about the situation to even hazard a guess as to what should be done.
But I'll check out wikipedia and maybe google and come back with an obvious solution that solves everything ;)
 
Deku said:
current detterence is more or less sending patrols to deter some attacks, and paying the pirates to rescue cargo and hostages. With the occasional coup when it's an American or Russian boats that get hijacked and both countries go after the pirates. But usually ransom is paid quietly.

Essentially there is no real policy on somalia.

The only way to stop piracy is to fix the situation on land. And you can't fix that by wishing it or donating to Oxfam. You need to land troops to stabilize the country.
Click to expand...

No you don't. This is probably the reason why people aren't responding seriously to you. Give people the means to overthrow their leaders and fight crime and they'll do it. They don't need their country bombed to hell like you guys did with Iraq.
 
Teetris said:
How the hell can pirates of the sea still be in a dominating position in 2011? We got jet fighters n shit and yet this is a problem.

Fix your problems world
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All those jet fighter and fancy technology still can't distinguish between a normal fishing boat and one filled with weapons.
 
saelz8 said:
According to some dumbasses in this thread, 4 Americans, = to the entire coast of Somalia.

Exceptional.
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Armchair generals love to imagine killing thousands of people every morning.
 
GloveSlap said:
So they just kill the hostages and then put up their hands like cowards. Then we get to pay for their lengthy prison stay. We need to have an international initiative to have trap boats going around their coast at all times. Boats that look normal on the outside but unleash hell on any pirates that try anything.
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Ooooh. This :nods:
 
itxaka said:
I'm guessing he is referring to the other people in there. The people which isn't a pirate. But I'm pretty sure you already knew that right?
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and if you'd bothered to learn anything about modern piracy off the coast of Somalia you'd know that many many many people benefit from the piracy business. but I'm pretty sure you already knew that one right?
 
lightless_shado said:
No you don't. This is probably the reason why people aren't responding seriously to you. Give people the means to overthrow their leaders and fight crime and they'll do it. They don't need their country bombed to hell like you guys did with Iraq.
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Some people aren't responding seriously to me because, as I noted in the very post they are quoting, Iraq has the effect of muddying the debate.

I point out Somalia is a case study for exactly the kind of interventionist policy required to stabilize a country.

And please don't say we need tools for the people to overthrow the regime. Somalia is a patchwork of warring warlords. There isn't even one dictator to overthrow.

I am for example not advocating an invasion of Libya, as of yet, it is not a failed state. But I think people here fundamentally do not understand what a failed state is seem to lump all those 'brown' countries into one category, with the 'do not invade' check box ticked off.

It's a simplistic view. And I'm certianly not ashamed of holding the views I do. This is the same thread where someone nonchalantly rationalized the boater's death on their religion and blamed them for making the mistake of getting hijacked and killed.
 
I'm sorry for the people who died, but jesus, hasn't everybody cottoned on to the fact that sailing around that area is a REALLY BAD IDEA by now?
 
ZZMitch said:
Yeah, that is fucking bad ass, I wanna know how that went down
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I'm going to guess got snuck up on and got a knife through the throat.

I'm guessing the soldiers would prefer to shoot whenever possible.
 
Deku said:
Some people aren't responding seriously to me because, as I noted in the very post they are quoting, Iraq has the effect of muddying the debate.

I point out Somalia is a case study for exactly the kind of interventionist policy required to stabilize a country.

And please don't say we need tools for the people to overthrow the regime. Somalia is a patchwork of warring warlords. There isn't even one dictator to overthrow.

I am for example not advocating an invasion of Libya, as of yet, it is not a failed state. But I think people here fundamentally do not understand what a failed state is seem to lump all those 'brown' countries into one category, with the 'do not invade' check box ticked off.

It's a simplistic view. And I'm certianly not ashamed of holding the views I do. This is the same thread where someone nonchalantly rationalized the boater's death on their religion and blamed them for making the mistake of getting hijacked and killed.
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Somalia really isn't really a problem that requires a $500 billion military intervention. Maybe, MAYBE if these pirates continue behaving bay shit insane, big powers will agree to provide weaponry and inteligence to one of the warlord to unite the country and in return stop the piracy.
 
Train private yachters how to defend their boat?

I'm sure they have radar. When an unidentified fishing boat is on a collision course with your yacht, press the 'HALP PLZ NAVY' button, lock n load the XM8s and man the cannons, etc. until the Navy can respond.
 
ChefRamsay said:
Train private yachters how to defend their boat?

I'm sure they have radar. When an unidentified fishing boat is on a collision course with your yacht, press the 'HALP PLZ NAVY' button, lock n load the XM8s and man the cannons, etc. until the Navy can respond.
Click to expand...

The only problem with ship defense, is sometimes countries do not like private vessels that are armed coming into their waters. It has the potential to cause more problems than it solves.
 
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