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Most of the scenes in the prequels are ruined by those lame CG sets.....I suspect that Sky Captain will be similarly fucked.

I thought about it for a moment though, and the bugs in Starship Troopers are probably the only real "organic" looking CG characters....though technically they are a combination of CG and puppet.

 

[Kettch]

I prefer puppets.

1. ANH
2. TESB
3. RotJ
4. TPM
5. AotC

And I won't be buying the dvds.

 

[Prine]

Id say golem is the most convincing CG character so far, there were times where i'd forget im watching a CG actor. His facial animation was just incredible.

Still, The Ring uses CG yes? When she starts coming out of the TV, that was pretty freaky.

 

[Warm Machine]

Starship Troopers is actually a good example because the real life bugs were actually made to look more like the CG ones so where you get a close up there is almost no telling which is which. I remember thinking that the space craft in that movie were CG just because of the coloration and shadowing but they were actually almost all models. ATOC is similar in this regard because you can tell the color palette of the actual sets are made to mimick the CG ones. Sometimes what you think is CG is actually real and vice versa.

 

[MrPing1000]

lol........ o wait...... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[COCKLES]

Phantom could have been a great movie. They made a big mistake having Anakin being a little 7 year old kid - should have met him at the age he is in ATOC. Lucas's biggest mistake was killing Darth Maul - he should have been a cosistant threat across the three prequels same way as Vadar was - that way when Anakin kills him in ROTS you'd truly know he'd come of age as a mega badarse.

 

[DopeyFish]

The real problems of the 2 prequels is as follows:

-everything is too fast paced, in the original trilogy... only the starship battles were fast... things like lightsabre battles were slow and really tense

-lack of dark & gritty (sort of goes parallel with the fast paced), everything "dark" in the first 2 movies still came out too light imo

-half the conversations we join halfway through (AotC is the worst offender of this) and really kills it i think.

The main content and camera work/story for both prequels were awesome, it's just minor... stupid little things that bring them down like omg! droid control ship destroyed now watch as droid heads fall off! or sand sux! you're soft! buttsecks?!

It's really the awkwardness of the scenes and makes you feel sometimes the characters being portrayed were all morons.

 

[nathkenn]

Phantom could have been a great movie. They made a big mistake having Anakin being a little 7 year old kid - should have met him at the age he is in ATOC. Lucas's biggest mistake was killing Darth Maul - he should have been a cosistant threat across the three prequels same way as Vadar was - that way when Anakin kills him in ROTS you'd truly know he'd come of age as a mega badarse.

Amen.

 

[The Bookerman]

I don't much give a damn. Original Trilogy >>> ( x infinity) Prequel Trilogy, therefore any move that changes the Original Trilogy to be consistent with the Prequels is trash.

Basically, I think Lucas has approached Star Wars completely ass backwards in the past decade. He made the most memorable movie trilogy of all time, then he decided to tell the story of the prequels.

Now, what he should have done was made the Prequels so as to be consistent with the Original Trilogy. Instead, he's made crappy Prequels, and for reasons passing understanding, has decided to taint the Original Trilogy by deciding to change it to be consistent with the Prequels.

And that is why he's a hack.

I hope you're ready for Episode 3.. cause that's what he's doing:

Made the last prequel consistant with the original trilogy.

Everything I've seen looks UBER dark.. A shit load of things were done to link Episode 3 to Episode 4.

Though I agree here's the things I hate the most about the prequel trilogy:

AOTC's lightsaber fights were garbage.
AOTC's humor was subpar.
The Clone War on Geonosis was fun... but would have been awesome if they had made it LONGER!(Like the Battle on HOTH).
the Gungans we're more retarded than the Ewoks.
Gungans sucks
Jar Jar irrates me.
The Phantom Menace had too much talking... Political strugglings were a bore.
Darth Tyranus aka Count Dooku was a the worst sith I've ever seen.
Jango Fett dies like a bitch(sure Sam is a badass... but why did Jango had to die like a punk like his kid does in ROTJ)

Things I liked about the prequels:

Darth Maul
Obi Wan and Darth Maul's fight was the best lightsaber fight ever done.
Darth Maul
Obi Wan : MAJOR PROPS to Ewan. He knows he has big shoes to fill, but man did he deliver.
Did I say Darth maul?
Cg Yoda is great.
Mace Windu aka Baddest Motherfucker in the universe is also great.
Ian McDiarmid is perfect as Darth Sidious aka The Emperor.

And I agree with Cockles..(that's a first)

 

[SteveMeister]

The main problem with the prequels is the way Lucas edits the films. He films a bunch of source footage, and assembles everything after the fact. He re-arranges characters, does artificial zooms, replaces dialogue, and what ends up happening is that the actors don't get to PERFORM. These are not bad actors, folks (well, except for Jake Lloyd) -- Lucas is diluting their performances by not giving them the context in which to act. That's also why many of the scenes seem awkward.

The prequel trilogy so far has not been as good as the original trilogy, but I still enjoyed Episodes 1 and 2. There are some really great moments in both movies. The last 45 minutes of AOTC are excellent, and I like all of Obi-Wan's scenes throughout the movie. For TPM, every scene with Darth Maul is terrific, and I really liked the pod race (two headed announcer notwithstanding). And the Emperor is my favorite character, so I ate up every scene with Palpatine/Sidious. Jar Jar I didn't really mind so much, because I understand what Lucas was trying to do with the character and with TPM overall. I'd say I like the Ewoks less than Jar Jar. But now Jar Jar's done his bit for the story, so I wouldn't be surprised if we see him even less in Episode III than we did in II.

As far as changes to the original trilogy go. When the Special Editions were released, there were only 2 changes I disapproved of: Greedo shooting first, and Luke screaming after he let himself fall in Cloud City. All the other changes were for the better, in my opinion. Better visual effects, making Cloud City seem more alive, the new ending of ROTJ which added much needed scope to the victory, giving a bit more background to Han's debt with Jabba, etc. Now Lucas is making some changes for the DVD's. Supposedly Luke's scream has been removed. Excellent. Ian Macdiarmid will be in the holographic communication with Vader in ESB, and the lines have been changed slightly. Excellent, in fact hearing the .mp3 gave me the chills. Hayden Christensen replacing Sebastian Shaw as Anakin's ghost -- evidently explained in Episode III, but either way I wouldn't say it BOTHERS me. Naboo (and possibly other cities) added to the celebration scene at the end of ROTJ -- why not? Doesn't change anything. Now if we can just get confirmation that Lucas has removed Greedo Shoots First...

To me, only those two changes (Greedo shoots first and Luke screams as he falls) actually changed the movies themselves. They changed the characters we knew, and THAT was wrong. But none of the other changes do that. All they do is add some flavor & life & eye candy to the movies. And if the new changes better tie the original trilogy to the old trilogy without altering the overall themes, story and characters, I see nothing wrong with it.

And remember, I saw the original Star Wars 14 times in 1977, and 12 times when it was re-released a year later. Star Wars was the most significant influence of my life throughout my teens, it was pretty much foremost in my thoughts most of the time. I was a hard-core fan. This is not to say I'm a blindly loyal Lucas-can-do-no-wrong fanboy. I hated THX-1198. I still don't really like the Ewoks all that much (and I *HATED* that stupid Nyub-nyub song that originally ended ROTJ). I wish Lucas would stop with the poop & fart jokes already. And I wish Lucas would let the actors act, and stop messing with every scene so much that their performances can't show through. But none of that was enough to make me hate the movies or the story or the mythology overall, or to write Lucas off as a "hack" or "asshat". Change is HIS prerogative. And if the new DVD's change the bad things back, and add new things that expand the story, that's a good thing.

 

[Tabris]

As far as changes to the original trilogy go. When the Special Editions were released, there were only 2 changes I disapproved of: Greedo shooting first, and Luke screaming after he let himself fall in Cloud City. All the other changes were for the better, in my opinion. Better visual effects, making Cloud City seem more alive, the new ending of ROTJ which added much needed scope to the victory, giving a bit more background to Han's debt with Jabba, etc. Now Lucas is making some changes for the DVD's. Supposedly Luke's scream has been removed. Excellent. Ian Macdiarmid will be in the holographic communication with Vader in ESB, and the lines have been changed slightly. Excellent, in fact hearing the .mp3 gave me the chills. Hayden Christensen replacing Sebastian Shaw as Anakin's ghost -- evidently explained in Episode III, but either way I wouldn't say it BOTHERS me. Naboo (and possibly other cities) added to the celebration scene at the end of ROTJ -- why not? Doesn't change anything. Now if we can just get confirmation that Lucas has removed Greedo Shoots First...

It's like our minds are one!

 

[Bizarro Sun Yat-sen]

I really don't see how some people can't tell the obvious differences from the two trilogies. The original was based on old Westerns....classic good guys versus bad guys on the new frontier (in this case, space.) The bad guy was clearly obvious, he wore all black. The simplicity in the plots were on puropose, give just enough information to move the good guys along from situation to situation and action scene to action scene. Like the old Saturday serials, that was the point. The new ones however are drenched in what is supposed to be a large deceptive plot complete with political overtones and filled with such "drama enducers" like galactic senate meetings and action scenes involving trade federations and blockades. Yeesh, how I almost long for the days when George didn't have the time or the budget to tell the whole story. There's nothing wrong with wanting to have a more detailed or serious plot, the trouble arises when it's not written in an exciting manor and the actors don't give performances great enough for us to care.

Heh, you've just described why I sort of prefer the prequel trilogy. I never saw the appeal of 'classic' good guys vs. bad guys stories, in any medium. As a kid I used to read a lot of fantasy novels and although they weren't always very well written, they usually had fairly intricate and involved plots, and detailed settings, which was what appealed to me. I didn't really watch movies or TV much and when I did watch a fantasy or sci-fi themed movie, including Star Wars, I usually found them disappointing due to their simple plots and lack of explicit detail in their settings. The new Star Wars movies may suffer from limp dialogue and some dramatic flaws, but they at least give you the feel of a vast, intricate setting with lots of involved goings-on, more than the original trilogy did. There's still a part of me that responds to that even though these days I'd rather read Dostoevsky than Margaret Weis or Robert Jordan.

 

[border]

As far as changes to the original trilogy go. When the Special Editions were released, there were only 2 changes I disapproved of: Greedo shooting first, and Luke screaming after he let himself fall in Cloud City. All the other changes were for the better, in my opinion.

If you actually like that stupid R&B/soul bullshit that gets played at Jabba's palace, you should end yourself....

Am I the only one who wonders why Lucas has gone back and changed so much, but hasn't corrected the many flubs and continuity errors? In ROTJ DVD....Oola's breast still pops out, Luke's lightsaber is holstered on the wrong side, the film runs backwards in Jabba's palace, Vader is seen holding Luke's lightsaber right before Luke attacks him with his lightsaber. It seems like there are plenty of gaffes and errors to correct, but Lucas is more interested in re-doing special effects and adding anachronistic dance numbers...

 

[SteveMeister]

If you actually like that stupid R&B/soul bullshit that gets played at Jabba's palace, you should end yourself....

Didn't really bother me. I wouldn't go & say I LIKED it, but it didn't bother me. It doesn't change the story or any of the characters. It just adds a bit of life & color to the setting. You can always skip past it on the DVD if you don't want to watch it. The Max Rebo band and Sy Snootles were there performing a musical number in the original version too, it just wasn't as overt as the new version.

 

[jett]

Heh, on Monday I watched AOTC on TV, in widescreen no less. The movie is worse than what I remembered watching in the theaters. I have no idea how can some people put it over ROTJ. Hayden Christensen does an awful job as Anakin, of nearly Grandia-voice-acting proportions. It doesn't help that George Lucas envisioned a young Darth Vader as an inmature little whiny bitch instead of a fucking badass, I guess. Really, this is a terrible piece of film. The art-direction is excellent at times, but the nearly amateurish camera work, the pace, the acting and the script is just terrible terrible terrible.

Return of the Jedi pisses on this garbage from a galaxy far, far away.

 

[levious]

Now if we can just get confirmation that Lucas has removed Greedo Shoots First...

based on the rough footage that was leaked it appears he managed to make it worse.

 

[border]

The Max Rebo band and Sy Snootles were there performing a musical number in the original version too, it just wasn't as overt as the new version.

Well you said that all the changes were for the better, so I gotta assume you liked it more than what was there previously. The old number was understated, alien, and interesting, like the strange music of the Mos Eisley cantina. The new number is so directly rooted in classic American music, it's just stupid. It doesn't jive with anything else going on in the universe. That number and Han Solo's mention of "hell" are two things that always annoyed me because they are more or less tied directly to Western earth tradition....not stuff that's in a galaxy far, far away. I also dislike how it was turned into this hokey spectacle.....and the guys banging giant drums...uggh. It's just too referential. To use the terms of the jazz/blues era, Jabba's palace should have been more of a jukejoint or speakeasy than an illustrious cabaret.

Oh, and it goes without saying that the CG characters in that song look stupid, cartoonish, and ridiculously fake.....that alone is probably enough to turn me off to the scene. They sit beside the Gungans as some of ILM's worst work.

 

[Flynn]

Return of the Jedi pisses on this garbage from a galaxy far, far away.

I agree.

AOTC delivers deep hurting.

 

[jett]

The only change I can't stand is Christensen being in ROTJ. I don't care about Greedo shooting first, or about Luke's scream. But GODDAMN, this motherfucker needlessly ruined one of my favorite scenes in the entire trilogy. BLEH.

 

[SteveMeister]

Well you said that all the changes were for the better, so I gotta assume you liked it more than what was there previously. The old number was understated, alien, and interesting, like the strange music of the Mos Eisley cantina. The new number is so directly rooted in classic American music, it's just stupid. It doesn't jive with anything else going on in the universe. That number and Han Solo's mention of "hell" are two things that always annoyed me because they are more or less tied directly to Western earth tradition....not stuff that's in a galaxy far, far away. I also dislike how it was turned into this hokey spectacle.....and the guys banging giant drums...uggh. It's just too referential. To use the terms of the jazz/blues era, Jabba's palace should have been more of a jukejoint or speakeasy than an illustrious cabaret.

Oh, and it goes without saying that the CG characters in that song look stupid, cartoonish, and ridiculously fake.....that alone is probably enough to turn me off to the scene. They sit beside the Gungans as some of ILM's worst work.

OK, fair enough. I guess I meant "most of the changes were for the better".

And Sy Snootles looked pretty cartoonish & fake in the original -- she just couldn't move as much.

As far as the song goes, the original "Lapti Nek" was kind of a disco-jazzy song and every bit as much of an "anachronism" of the more R&B jazzy "Jedi Rocks" from the Special Edition. I don't think either song is necessarily better or worse -- they rank about the same in my opinion. I think you were more offended by the in-your-face CGI than the fact that there was a musical number.

 

[Lucky Forward]

Now we know why Greedo shoots first...

 

[ManaByte]

Now we know why Greedo shoots first...

Wow, if I haven't seen that picture 10,000,000,000 times since 1999 I maybe would've laughed.

 

[ManaByte]

The only change I can't stand is Christensen being in ROTJ. I don't care about Greedo shooting first, or about Luke's scream. But GODDAMN, this motherfucker needlessly ruined one of my favorite scenes in the entire trilogy. BLEH.

Sixteen years passed between the releases of Episode VI and Episode I and it was about thirteen years between the releases of Episode VI and the Special Editions. In those years, thanks to an absence of Star Wars movies and simply books and comics to go by, Star Wars fans developed their own vision of how the saga should play out. This goes for the regular everyday fan to film critics.

They grasped onto these personal fantasies of how the Star Wars Saga should be, so by the time Lucas got around to doing the Special Editions and the Prequels, many Star Wars fans were so deeply tied into their vision for the Saga that they could do nothing but complain when Lucas (you know, the person who created the entire Star Wars universe) decided to complete the saga once and for all.

It didn't matter that this is how Lucas wanted the story to develop. All that mattered was that it didn't match their vision of how they wanted George Lucas' story to be told. That is why you see so many people saying "If I were Lucas" or "I would do it this way" or even "That's not MY Star Wars". These people simply cannot get it through their thick skulls that this isn't their story to tell. Lucas created Star Wars and it's up to him to tell his story however the hell he wants to. No amount of whining and stomping your feet on an internet message board will allow you to control how Lucas tells his story.

 

[evil ways]

Yeah, except his so called "vision" and "story" changes every 4-6 years, or whenever he feels like his pockets are getting too light since he knows the more rabid Star Wars fans will buy into his senile bullshit, hell this thread alone is proof of that.

I'm all for changes if it improves the movie, visual quality, scenes that were shot or written but never included, etc. I don't have that whole "Oh no, no more old school, washed out visuals or stop motion puppets, this is not Star Wars!!" mentality, but when you add things and change scenes for the worst that's when there's a problem.

Example the Jabba scene is ANH, I'm happy to see the scene in the Special Editions, but not the way it was executed. It looked terrible, having Han Solo step over Jabba in a poorly animated, almost paper cut out, South Park way, like trying to shove a triangle through a circular hole. A good editor and director would've just opted to add another shot, or lengthen a different shot then go back to Jabba with Han Solo already on the other side, like you can see he circled or walked around Jabba but without the crappy scene.

Bottom line, just because it's his supposed vision, it doesn't mean it's a good one, and people especially the people putting money in his pockets shouldn't complain.

 

[Flynn]

"Oh no, no more old school, washed out visuals or stop motion puppets, this is not Star Wars!!"

You're wrong.

The movie truly isn't Star Wars anymore.

It's now Episode 4: A New Hope.

In my mind they're two different movies.

 

[SteveMeister]

You're wrong.

The movie truly isn't Star Wars anymore.

It's now Episode 4: A New Hope.

In my mind they're two different movies.

It was Episode 4: A New Hope from the 1981 re-release. From starwars.com:

Star Wars was still playing in numerous theaters a year after its opening on May 25, 1977. It was re-released in 1979, 1981 and 1982. But when was the change made? For the indisputable answer, we went to Lucasfilm's film archivist, Sterling Hedgpeth. Here's what he says:

"I found a box with all the positive elements for the 'revised' opening crawl, and the assorted trim boxes are dated from October through December 1980. This, then, is consistent with the view that Episode IV: A New Hope was added for the first time to the opening crawl for the April 10, 1981 re-release."

 

[MetatronM]

Personally, I don't believe you can tell a story in full, and then say, "no wait, it didn't quite happen like that, it happened like this," and then a few years later say "no wait, hold on, that's not quite right either--it REALLY happened like THIS." That's just a sign of a shitty storyteller.

This whole Special Special Edition business reminds me of the ending to Clue, where they went through all the different scenarios. "It COULD have happened that way...but maybe it happened like this..."

 

[levious]

don't knock that Clue thing... that was badass, and a total tribute to the game...

Having all three endings playing separately in theaters at once was also brilliant.

 

[SteveMeister]

Personally, I don't believe you can tell a story in full, and then say, "no wait, it didn't quite happen like that, it happened like this," and then a few years later say "no wait, hold on, that's not quite right either--it REALLY happened like THIS." That's just a sign of a shitty storyteller.

This whole Special Special Edition business reminds me of the ending to Clue, where they went through all the different scenarios. "It COULD have happened that way...but maybe it happened like this..."

But that's the thing -- I don't think Lucas has changed the STORY. He changed two of the CHARACTERS for the worse -- Greedo shooting first and Luke screaming -- but the story remained the same. Adding details that tie in events from the prequels won't automatically change the story, either.

 

[jett]

Sixteen years passed between the releases of Episode VI and Episode I and it was about thirteen years between the releases of Episode VI and the Special Editions. In those years, thanks to an absence of Star Wars movies and simply books and comics to go by, Star Wars fans developed their own vision of how the saga should play out. This goes for the regular everyday fan to film critics.

They grasped onto these personal fantasies of how the Star Wars Saga should be, so by the time Lucas got around to doing the Special Editions and the Prequels, many Star Wars fans were so deeply tied into their vision for the Saga that they could do nothing but complain when Lucas (you know, the person who created the entire Star Wars universe) decided to complete the saga once and for all.

It didn't matter that this is how Lucas wanted the story to develop. All that mattered was that it didn't match their vision of how they wanted George Lucas' story to be told. That is why you see so many people saying "If I were Lucas" or "I would do it this way" or even "That's not MY Star Wars". These people simply cannot get it through their thick skulls that this isn't their story to tell. Lucas created Star Wars and it's up to him to tell his story however the hell he wants to. No amount of whining and stomping your feet on an internet message board will allow you to control how Lucas tells his story.

Good God. In every single Star Wars thread all you do is defend Lucas with all your might like a goddamn sheep. If he would randomly insert pictures of his cock during the films you would have no problem with it, in fact, you'd find a way for it to make sense.

 

[Spiritreaver]

Good God. In every single Star Wars thread all you do is defend Lucas with all your might like a goddamn sheep. If he would randomly insert pictures of his cock during the films you would have no problem with it, in fact, you'd find a way for it to make sense.

I'd like that actually, Star Wars threads need more gayming age.

 

[levious]

But that's the thing -- I don't think Lucas has changed the STORY. He changed two of the CHARACTERS for the worse -- Greedo shooting first and Luke screaming -- but the story remained the same. Adding details that tie in events from the prequels won't automatically change the story, either.

Not to be nitpicky, and General Grevious does seem cool from at least the Clone Wars cartoons, but I always assumed Vader/Anakin and the emperor killed off the jedi.

Also there was the whole Obi Wan line, "I thought I could train him as Yoda had trained me... I was wrong." I expected Obi Wan to have been Yoda's pupil from that line.

 

[SteveMeister]

Not to be nitpicky, and General Grevious does seem cool from at least the Clone Wars cartoons, but I always assumed Vader/Anakin and the emperor killed off the jedi.

Also there was the whole Obi Wan line, "I thought I could train him as Yoda had trained me... I was wrong." I expected Obi Wan to have been Yoda's pupil from that line.

I know from the books, and it is implied but not specifically stated in the movies, that Yoda trains ALL the younglings. Anakin was too old (and likely too powerful) to be included amongst the younglings, so he was made Obi-Wan's padawan. But Obi-Wan was taken from birth to the Jedi Academy and would indeed have undergone Yoda's tutelage.

 

[levious]

Books mean nothing to me, and Lucas seems to agree but is happy to get paid for licensing them...

Besides, that still doesn't jive with the line to me.

 

[Flynn]

It was Episode 4: A New Hope from the 1981 re-release. From starwars.com:

That was on the crawl. But it wasn't until lately that they started adding that garbage to the posters and title.