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[Negotiator101]

Not at all, first of all Xbox isnt going under, and they are working on a new console.

Second of all, Xbox did this to themselves, not the competition. PS4/PS5 won due to sheer incompetence on Xbox side

While I admire your optimism and I certainly don't agree with that Xbox is closing down soon etc

They do have serious PR work to do and the next console/PC needs to be marketed really well to sell a reasonable amount of units.

The PC gamer will have serious problems with hardware prices continuing to rise and that may be an opportunity for Xbox to get some of them if indeed it does play PC games. If they can tap into that market even slightly then it's a game changer but that's a big if.

 

[Karim]

Because they are so arrogant and stupid, just think of the ps3 days. Hell even on ps5 right now we see barely any good first party titles

These companies need the competition from eachother, yes MS has been flailing around like a headless chicken for years, but to hope for MS to fully quit Xbox is like giving Sony the keys to the Mansion and saying "go wild"

Unless you want monthly psn subs to become crazy expensive, Sony not caring about their core players etc..

Competition is HEALTHY for consumers. We WANT these companies fighting for our wallet.

Why MS needs to be their major competitor when they are more arrogant and stupid of them?

 

[EDMIX]

Sony is market leader because they're coasting off of the unparalleled support they got with their first console.

Nah, That's not really how any of that works in order to remain successful you have to continue to do something to bring in those consumers.

So this argument that they're coasting off a the success of a previous system is never really going to make any sense because we no longer have the exact equal system or gaming culture as we did in the 90s to pretend that concept is what is selling a playstation today in 2026


The greatest example of this by the way is look at the phenomenon regarding the wii

How did that work out for wii u ?

Even more look at the success of the switch, Look at the success of the switch 2.

If Nintendo did not succeed in continue to succeed with what they did with switch 2 people simply would have not purchased it. Consumers are not simply just purchasing just for the sake of it clearly there must be something compelling and something they trust regarding the company in order to part with their money.

Giving third parties an easy platform to develop for, and releasing them from Nintendo's tyrannical control, got virtually all devs aboard the PS bandwagon.

Ok, but clearly that wasn't an easy feat, they must maintain that culture with 3rd parties to continue to be the main place to play those titles.

It's just that they've had all the install base and all the devs on board for thirty years straight.

Annnnnd that is something that must be maintained, those devs are on board clearly because of something they are doing right. Those consumers buy PS based on something they trust Sony delivers each gen

So yes, it's true that Sony doesn't really have to put in any effort.

Nah, they must still maintain their position, which means still buying teams when right, releasing new IP when right, making bold moves while maintaining core PS concepts consumers expect.

Nintendo only holds on because of Pokemon and the few exclusives that still sell 20+ million copies

? annnnnd that is a big only bud. That must still actually be good for consumers to return, they cannot release an unplayable game or a fucking box called "Pokemon" and it moves millions with zero game or something. They sell 20 million copies cause those games continue to provide a level of quality their fanbase expects, thus they return.

That is not easy, that is not a default concept and I'm not sure why anyone sees that as this "only" thing as if such things are normal within the industry. Nintendo could have been SEGA bud, Nintendo could have been MS right now, going 3rd party and calling it quits if they didn't continue to fight, learn from their mistakes and release hardware that is dependable and expected. Nintendo could not afford another Wii U, Switch had to go from 1 to 2 to build that trust to not only keep that install base, but developers on board.

If they decided to do some new idea, like some fucking Ai and wands etc they would risk alienating what they started with Switch, so as far as I'm concerned, Switch is like their PS1 and they should continue this path forward unless they really, really come up with some wild innovated concept.

But regardless, neither thing Sony or Nintendo are doing is in some "only" type of realm to be down playing.

We seen many fucking fail and go out of business to fucking act as if its that easy bud.

Go tell SEGA that Sony is ONLY doing

Go tell Ouya that Nintendo is just ONLY doing

Shit, got tell MS that Sony is ONLY just doing xyz and show them how its done lol

Sony is leaving behind their core players quickly.

I see zero evidence of this. Sony has just seen its most profitable generation in history, more then all the other combined....annnd the generation is not done yet. So as a core PS consumer, they are providing me with exactly what I expect during a PS generation. First party titles both in single player and multiplayer, solid 3rd party support, solid Japanese 3rd party support etc Solid hardware and solid hardware upgrades.

provide us with some real data to prove these points btw.

Sony Says PlayStation 5 Generation Is Its Most Profitable Console Generation to Date - IGN

The PlayStation 5 generation is officially the most profitable Sony console generation to date, according to new data shared by the company.

www.ign.com

 

[nial]

Isn't the Nintendo SW2 selling like truckloads? Their next HW is going to be powerful enough to get all third party games day one and that's when Sony is gonna get screwed hard, since they don't really have exclusives anymore and all their efforts go to GAAS trash, they're doing a MS and also will become another Publisher for Nintendo and Steam, lmao

 

[Gambit2483]

So when it was Gamecube and Wii U; Nintendo couldn't compete with Sony?

But when it's Switch 1/Switch 2; Nintendo isn't competing with Sony?

Right.

 

[SNG32]

Old data.

Do you honestly think the PC market will grow in the current AI supply-chain disrupted climate??

And you don't think PS6 will be affected by it either?

 

[nial]

PS2: 160M
XB OG: 24M

As funny as this is, it's not a very accurate representation of the market environment at the time given that the PS2 had long stopped competing with the original Xbox upon its discontinuation in 2013. I would personally use numbers up to March 31, 2007, which would look like this:

PS2: 118M
XB OG: 24M

 

[existensmaximum]

Yeah, it's pretty bleak. I'm very worried about the future of Sony tbh.

 

[Steve Holt]

Most of Sony's revenues is just money churn, to fund the hardware, and to pay off the 70% to publishers

Pay off the 70% to publishers? Eh.. what a weird way of looking at things.

They get 30% of all sales, all DLC and all micro transactions from publishers just for allowing them to release their games onto the platform. It must be a very lucrative passive income to get 30% of all game revenue.

You make it sound like a broken business model.

 

[Exede]

Yes. And by some margain.

I'm not sooooo sure about it! But that's okay

 

[alabtrosMyster]

The is what a market leader does, they lead, by definition they're alone.

That being said, Nintendo and Steam are competing really hard and they're keeping Sony feet on fire.

I'm not worried about a lack of competition as things are.

 

[LakeOf9]

Good news! They're not.

PC and Nintendo are market leaders.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Good news! They're not.

PC and Nintendo are market leaders.

How many fps will be GTA 6 on Switch?

Seriously, the Pikmin business fanfic needs to stop.

Sony needs competition in their same market segment, which neither "PC" (whatever the fuck that is) or Switch is.

 

[MayaXG]

Xbox going under is the result of this competition you speak of. The market has spoken. It's impossible for the big three to be equally successful in todays economic climate. Something has to give.

The Xbox division brings in $25 billion dollars annually. That's about 20% of the market cap of Sony Corporation as a whole. Don't get it twisted. While the branding on the plastic box may look different next time around, Xbox isn't going anywhere.

I think some people live in a fantasy world where Xbox is Sega circa 2000 bleeding cash and on the verge of bankruptcy. Let's not get carried away here.

 

[PropellerEar]

The Xbox division brings in $25 billion dollars annually. That's about 20% of the market cap of Sony Corporation as a whole. Don't get it twisted. While the branding on the plastic box may look different next time around, Xbox isn't going anywhere.

I think some people live in a fantasy world where Xbox is Sega circa 2000 bleeding cash and on the verge of bankruptcy. Let's not get carried away here.

Xbox division as a whole isn't bringing in anything, there is no profit.

 

[MayaXG]

Good news! They're not.

PC and Nintendo are market leaders.

Microsoft leads the PC market, Nintendo leads the handheld market and Sony leads the console market. These are three different market segments with a ton of overlap.

A motorcycle company doesn't compete with trucks and SUVs. A household with enough money might own all three or at least two of the three. Same with the gaming segment.

 

[LakeOf9]

Microsoft leads the PC market

No they don't. Valve does.

 

[MayaXG]

Xbox division as a whole isn't bringing in anything, there is no profit.

In the age of the search engine and AI, the level of ignorance in this statement is astonishing.

Do not confuse a drop in revenue YoY as "no profit". They just made less money this year than last year.

 

[Tobimacoss]

By this logic, Apple is failing because they pay out ~$50B a year to devs in the Apple Store.

So here's the thing, Apple makes at least 100% profit margins on their hardware devices, Sony doesn't. My point was, all that revenue for Sony but their profit margins are so low. So having that large revenues is irrelevant. There are no MAJOR profits in third party store cuts for Sony. The hardware is break even or at a loss, and store cut is barely enough profits for a publicly traded corporation.

Switch consoles are not big on third party games since they can't run many of the big ones. Much of Nintendo's profits come from first party games, and those barely drop in prices. Sony has learned not to do fire sales on their games, keep prices high. But most of their games won't sell close to what Nintendo first party can do.

So Sony's profits come mostly from PS+ revenues, PS accessories, and first party content. But those profits are built on a House of Cards, if either takes a hit, like more Concords or drop in PS+ subscriber base, overall profit will drop hard.

So for Xbox, it is basically 25% revenues from third party store cut, 25% from First party content and subscription, 25% from accessories, and 25% from hardware. They were losing up to $1-2 billion on hardware subsidizing for every 10 million units sold. They no longer wish to lose money on hardware. They are even willing to take a hit on the third party store revenues, because there's no massive profits in those. They know allowing Steam/Epic could have them lose some of that revenue. They are even willing to reduce cut to 12%.

So their goal is to make most profits from first party content and subscriptions. That's why the subscription has to be accessible everywhere via Cloud, and the first party games are put on any device that is capable of running them.

Sony will have no choice but to do the same eventually. Because client hardware is irrelevant in the world of Cloud Gaming. The content will be exclusive to the subscription streaming service, not to the hardware itself.

Pay off the 70% to publishers? Eh.. what a weird way of looking at things.

They get 30% of all sales, all DLC and all micro transactions from publishers just for allowing them to release their games onto the platform. It must be a very lucrative passive income to get 30% of all game revenue.

You make it sound like a broken business model.

Don't misunderstand, look at that reply in context to the comment I replied to. Point was there's no massive profit margins for Sony even having $32 billion in annual revenues.

Yes, it actually IS a broken business model, it is just a money churn, money coming in and going back out. That's why MS no longer cares to compete in selling consoles. They are tying the hardware permanently to the larger PC Gaming ecosystem, that will act as the anchor point while they focus on expanding via Cloud. That is their strength due to the tens of billions they have invested into Azure infrastructure.

 

[PropellerEar]

In the age of the search engine and AI, the level of ignorance in this statement is astonishing.

Do not confuse a drop in revenue YoY as "no profit". They just made less money this year than last year.

MSFT talks about Accountability Margin not profit for Xbox division, fools like you especially in the age of search engine and AI, could do research what is included in that and what is not.

 

[Germuso]

 

[MayaXG]

No they don't. Valve does.

Has the Steam Deck sold more than 5 million units yet? The majority of PC games are played on Windows. Now if you're talking store-front sales, you would be correct. But that's apples and oranges.

 

[owandeseis]

How many fps will be GTA 6 on Switch?

Seriously, the Pikmin business fanfic needs to stop.

Sony needs competition in their same market segment, which neither "PC" (whatever the fuck that is) or Switch is.

There's not enough market for 3 consoles anymore i'd say

 

[MayaXG]

MSFT talks about Accountability Margin not profit for Xbox division, fools like you especially in the age of search engine and AI, could do research what is included in that and what is not.

I refuse to go down a semantics rabbit hole with you. You implied that Xbox isn't profitable and that simply isn't true and hasn't been true for a long time.

The console market isn't a zero sum game. You can be outsold 5 to 1 and still be a profitable business.

 

[PropellerEar]

I refuse to go down a semantics rabbit hole with you. You implied that Xbox isn't profitable and that simply isn't true and hasn't been true for a long time.

The console market isn't a zero sum game. You can be outsold 5 to 1 and still be a profitable business.

No semantics, no BS.
XBOX has never been a profitable business.

 

[Steve Holt]

So here's the thing, Apple makes at least 100% profit margins on their hardware devices, Sony doesn't. My point was, all that revenue for Sony but their profit margins are so low. So having that large revenues is irrelevant. There are no MAJOR profits in third party store cuts for Sony. The hardware is break even or at a loss, and store cut is barely enough profits for a publicly traded corporation.

Switch consoles are not big on third party games since they can't run many of the big ones. Much of Nintendo's profits come from first party games, and those barely drop in prices. Sony has learned not to do fire sales on their games, keep prices high. But most of their games won't sell close to what Nintendo first party can do.

So Sony's profits come mostly from PS+ revenues, PS accessories, and first party content. But those profits are built on a House of Cards, if either takes a hit, like more Concords or drop in PS+ subscriber base, overall profit will drop hard.

So for Xbox, it is basically 25% revenues from third party store cut, 25% from First party content and subscription, 25% from accessories, and 25% from hardware. They were losing up to $1-2 billion on hardware subsidizing for every 10 million units sold. They no longer wish to lose money on hardware. They are even willing to take a hit on the third party store revenues, because there's no massive profits in those. They know allowing Steam/Epic could have them lose some of that revenue. They are even willing to reduce cut to 12%.

So their goal is to make most profits from first party content and subscriptions. That's why the subscription has to be accessible everywhere via Cloud, and the first party games are put on any device that is capable of running them.

Sony will have no choice but to do the same eventually. Because client hardware is irrelevant in the world of Cloud Gaming. The content will be exclusive to the subscription streaming service, not to the hardware itself.

Don't misunderstand, look at that reply in context to the comment I replied to. Point was there's no massive profit margins for Sony even having $32 billion in annual revenues.

Yes, it actually IS a broken business model, it is just a money churn, money coming in and going back out. That's why MS no longer cares to compete in selling consoles. They are tying the hardware permanently to the larger PC Gaming ecosystem, that will act as the anchor point while they focus on expanding via Cloud. That is their strength due to the tens of billions they have invested into Azure infrastructure.

Yes, Sony reinvests the money back into game development. Where there are huge costs involved there. They have to be investing in new content. It's a constant cycle.

You're thinking of it as they need a huge markup on one time items, to be sustainable. When the whole model is about lifetime value. And to do that they need to be creating content and keeping people on the platform.

And it's undoubtedly working for them, by raising their full year forecasts and showing growth across all of their sectors.

 

[Topher]

Has the Steam Deck sold more than 5 million units yet? The majority of PC games are played on Windows. Now if you're talking store-front sales, you would be correct. But that's apples and oranges.

That's conflating the operating system market with PC gaming. I've yet to see an analyst reference Windows when analyzing gaming unless they are comparing operating system market share. Steam is the dominant store and the market leader in PC gaming. That's why Microsoft publishes all their games on Steam.

 

[Jagernaut]

This generation is the worst 1st party publishers ever had, but a great one except for this.
However, about Sony...

They adopted Apple's strategy with the accessories. Stupidly overpriced.
The Nintendo strategy with the game's prices (Prices not ever coming down for real). Check Demon's Souls and Returnal prices in 2026... It's surreal.
And following GAAS ruined their whole 1st party output.

They are lucky that the Japanese developers, indies and small studios are making awesome games.

I checked psprices.com and Demon's Souls and Returnal go on sale frequently at $30 for digital. When do Nintendo first party games ever go on sale at 50% off?

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Muh Competition™

Anyway why does the competition always have to involve Microsoft? If they recover and legit compete again, fine I guess. That'd be cool. But I'm not praying and begging for it to happen just to "provide competition". The competitor still has to instill confidence that they can compete long-term, and Microsoft have failed in proving that for more or less 15 years.

Why would I want to reward mediocrity just to keep up some semblance of a facade of competition? If companies like Nintendo and Valve can provide more genuine competition, even if more indirectly, then I'd rather get competition that way.

Like I said man, I never saw people constantly begging for SEGA to stick around in hardware to provide competition the way I've seen people do for Microsoft. Which is insane because, based on merit, SEGA deserved it a lot more.

 

[BlackTron]

Microsoft's competitive tactics were not healthy for the industry. They took too long to compete on making better games. It's over.

Nintendo and Sony will adapt in the coming years to more directly compete. While they both get Microsoft software.

 

[Venom Snake]

Its just more that I constantly see people wishing for the death of Xbox, when that in fact would probably not be best for consumers in the long end.

So you're just pissed off about what people write.

Give it a rest.

 

[Kagoshima_Luke]

Let's be honest. We needed Sony to save us from the rising evil of MSFT.

But... now they have lived long enough to become the villain. They are no longer the hero we need right now.

 

[Negotiator101]

No semantics, no BS.
XBOX has never been a profitable business.

You obviously forgot about the FTC trial that clearly stated it was profitable

 

[Gaiff]

Like I said man, I never saw people constantly begging for SEGA to stick around in hardware to provide competition the way I've seen people do for Microsoft. Which is insane because, based on merit, SEGA deserved it a lot more.

Of course, you haven't. This was in freakin' 2000 lol.

 

[bender]

 

[PropellerEar]

You obviously forgot about the FTC trial that clearly stated it was profitable

Read carefully

... and once again consider why they are using Accountability Margin

 

[monkeycan8]

Xbox going under is far more due to their gross incompetence than Sony.

Like Buying 7 gaming studios, creating 2 new studios and then buying 2 of the worlds largest gaming publishers, spending roughly $85 Billion since 2018 and still having no idea what to actually do with any of them. All to just put their games on a subscription service that for years many people found workarounds to only pay $1 a month for. Brilliant!

 

[MMaRsu]

So you're just pissed off about what people write.

Give it a rest.

Im not pissed off at all I'm trying to talk some sense into some of these warriors

 

[Venom Snake]

Im not pissed off at all I'm trying to talk some sense into some of these warriors

Try to knock some sense into those who shill Microsoft on its way down.

Those who mock the demise of the Xbox division are not half as harmful as those who convinced themselves (and others) that this was the right path for MS to take.

 

[KanKamAndNob]

Sony is market leader because they're coasting off of the unparalleled support they got with their first console.
Giving third parties an easy platform to develop for, and releasing them from Nintendo's tyrannical control, got virtually all devs aboard the PS bandwagon. And then, the sheer penetration of the brand meant that you could never go wrong releasing your game on PlayStation. They had literally zero competition against the PS1, and that gave the PS2 a guaranteed userbase.

Xbox got the wrong timing on everything and made some poor choices when they could have gotten a serious foothold in the market.
Xbox put western games first in an era when Japanese games were still firing on all cylinders and the JRPG craze was at its highest. Also, they jumped into the market with a machine that was too big and had too few games for the Japanese audience, and that was too expensive for the European audience. All of this meant that outside of America, they were always at a disadvantage.
Later, they failed to deliver a better machine than PS4 when consoles abandoned custom hardware to fully embrace PC hardware, Japanese games where at their lowest interest in history, and Nintendo would have gone under without Pokemon and the 3DS. Xbox One is where Xbox lost the race. They could have had the full support of the industry there and then, if they just provided hardware on par with PS4 and didn't reveal their idiotic TV TV TV plans. That was the last train for any PS competitor, and they missed it big time.

Sony doesn't really care about their core players right now, and hasn't for some time.
It's just that they've had all the install base and all the devs on board for thirty years straight. And now they also have the majority of online console communities, which means that nobody is gonna jump ship if their friends aren't doing so as well - and they're not. The consolidation of online communities was the final nail in the competition's coffin.

So yes, it's true that Sony doesn't really have to put in any effort. They've made scorched ground around them, and nothing can grow there for a long time. Nintendo only holds on because of Pokemon and the few exclusives that still sell 20+ million copies, but with their current pricing strategy, it's unlikely that they will repeat the success of the Switch.
PlayStation stands alone, and has nothing to prove anymore. They wouldn't keep spitting on their historical userbase with their AAA girlboss games and their desperate attempts at a GAAS breakthrough if they thought they had any ground to lose to anyone else.

Sony is leaving behind their core players quickly. Time will tell what happens next in this industry, but if rumors of Wife of War are believable as they are without any shred of concrete proof, it's because many of Sony's core players have long realized that they don't really matter anymore, and Sony isn't doing anything to hide it. A day may come when the blue ponys will have to realize they won a battle, but lost the real war.

They have the brainless normie audience who only play garbage on lockdown. Those morons are the ones who brings in billions of dollars annually on horseshit like sportsball, COD, Fortnite, and GTA Online. They can financially afford to keep shitting out these feminist power fantasies with ugly looking mutants so long as the slop slurpers keep mindlessly feeding at the trough known as "GAAS". The unfortunate reality is that double digit IQ casuals keep PlayStation, hell any console alive more than core gamers do at this point.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

They have the brainless normie audience who only play garbage on lockdown. Those morons are the ones who brings in billions of dollars annually on horseshit like sportsball, COD, Fortnite, and GTA Online. They can financially afford to keep shitting out these feminist power fantasies with ugly looking mutants so long as the slop slurpers keep mindlessly feeding at the trough known as "GAAS". The unfortunate reality is that double digit IQ casuals keep PlayStation, hell any console alive more than core gamers do at this point.

So, your argument is: "I don't like it, therefore the millions who do are low IQ"? That's… impressively self-aware......./s
Imagine thinking personal taste is a measure of intelligence

 

[archangelmorph]

And you don't think PS6 will be affected by it either?

Fuck are you on about?

Who said anything about PS6?

There won't be a PS6 for a very very long time.

 

[KanKamAndNob]

So, your argument is: "I don't like it, therefore the millions who do are low IQ"? That's… impressively self-aware......./s
Imagine thinking personal taste is a measure of intelligence

Hit a nerve? The same people you're defending would happily do the same to me or you for that matter so yes, it's fair. I also like how you didn't counter my argument, just had a bitch fit about me not beating around the bush with my language.

Do you think McDonald's is fine dining because lazy fat asses eat there everyday? Is Walmart the greatest store to shop at because it's cheap? Is Avatar the greatest movie franchise of all time just because morons flock to see that crap? If you answered no to any of those questions, please shut the fuck up, because you also agree with my sentiment. For some reason you just want to virtue signal for the same kind of idiots I was talking about in my initial post.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

Hit a nerve? The same people you're defending would happily do the same to me or you for that matter so yes, it's fair. I also like how you didn't counter my argument, just had a bitch fit about me not beating around the bush with my language.

Do you think McDonald's is fine dining because lazy fat asses eat there everyday? Is Walmart the greatest store to shop at because it's cheap? Is Avatar the greatest movie franchise of all time just because morons flock to see that crap? If you answered no to any of those questions, please shut the fuck up, because you also agree with my sentiment. For some reason you just want to virtue signal for the same kind of idiots I was talking about in my initial post.

You're making this worse and should probably stop with this childish line of thinking. Your McDonalds/WalmartAvatar comparison makes zero sense. The thing is, popular doesn't equal fine dining. It also doesn't equal low IQ. You're confusing "mass appeal" with "intellectual deficiency," which says more about your ego than anyone else's taste. The difference is, I can dislike something without assuming everyone who enjoys it is intellectually inferior or "low IQ". That's called emotional maturity. You should try it dude.
Also, needing to call millions of people morons for liking certain games like COD or GTA: Online isn't an argument.......it's just insecurity. I'll leave it at that.

 

[SNG32]

Fuck are you on about?

Who said anything about PS6?

There won't be a PS6 for a very very long time.

PS6 is coming 2028 easily.

 

[Wulfer]

Xbox going under is the result of this competition you speak of. The market has spoken. It's impossible for the big three to be equally successful in todays economic climate. Something has to give.

Then that something is the consumer because we will pay dearly for it! Sony may not do it at first, but Hell expects it's pay!

 

[archangelmorph]

PS6 is coming 2028 easily.

You honestly think Sony will launch a PS6 at like $899 MSRP?

Good luck..

 

[kazuyamishima]

And you don't think PS6 will be affected by it either?

I doubt that Sony will be affected in the same way as the Average Joe Hardware store will, but happy to be proven wrong I guess.

 

[SNG32]

You honestly think Sony will launch a PS6 at like $899 MSRP?

Good luck..

Why wouldn't they Xbox is about to be around 1200 it would come still cheaper.

 

[archangelmorph]

Why wouldn't they Xbox is about to be around 1200 it would come still cheaper.

Because nobody will buy it.

Xbox is already dead.

They've done very well building up their install base this gen.

If they ship a PS6 at a ridiculous price point, when they've already set the precedent this gen that hardware prices will not come down quickly (or even at all in the case of this gen), then the message will be this is not for their core audience, but a 10-15% subset of hardcore mass affluent only.

Everyone else will either fuck off to either Nintendo or give up on gaming altogether.

I know Sony have been quite stupid of late but an act of desperately aggressive self-harm is perhaps a step too far.