Support NeoGAF

[MassiveAttack]

13 firms to devise specifications for playback-only 'Blu-ray Disc'+
08.03.04, 3:16 PM ET

TOKYO, Aug 03, 2004 (Kyodo via COMTEX) -- The world's 13 major electronics makers said Tuesday they will draw up by Sept. 30 a set of technological specifications for ultra-large-memory prerecorded "Blu-ray Disc" videodisks whose functions will be limited to playing back contents.

This type of Blu-ray Disc video storage medium will carry such content as movies. The Blu-ray Disc technology combines optical disk and blue-laser technologies.

Another type of Blu-ray Disc that allows users to both record and play back video images has already been put on the market.

The 13 include Sony Corp., Matsushita Electric Industrial Co. and Dell Inc. of the United States.

These manufacturers plan to start marketing, by the end of fiscal 2005, video software as well as the Blu-ray Disc players whose functions will be limited to playing back prerecorded contents, they said.

In a related move, Sony officials said the company will equip an upcoming version of the PlayStation2 video console with a Blu-ray Disc player, so that purchasers can enjoy both video games and movies of high-image quality.

Sony plans to announce the outline of the next version of PlayStation2 by March 31, 2005, they said.

Sony's Blu-ray Disc provides 23 gigabyte storage memory capacity -- five times that of a DVD.

Compared with CD or DVD systems based on red lasers, Blu-ray machines use blue lasers that have a shorter wavelength and require much less space to store each bit of information.

Kyodo News

 

[Gek54]

Woohoo?

 

[pcostabel]

Wasn't it already confirmed? And why the article is worded as if they mean a PS2 with BRD?

 

[TekunoRobby]

It might be semantics but it reads like they are going to include blu-ray in a PS2 console (down the road) not the PS3.

 

[Gek54]

Translated from Tokyo, most likely meant successor of the PS2.

 

[MassiveAttack]

Original article here:

Blu-Ray Announcement

Let the interpretations begin...

 

[Li Mu Bai]

Isn't this old news? Weren't two versions rumored, identical to thge PS2/PSX scenario. Don't expect it on the standard PS3 though.

 

[Gek54]

The will outline the semantics of a BlueRay PS2, right next to the PS3......riiiiiight.

 

[kaching]

Well, it seems clear that Sony will be naming the PS3 like Squeenix names FF spinoffs... it'll be the Playstation II-2...or the PS2-II.

Li Mu Bai - There's been nothing officially confirmed, nor would I look on statements by unnamed "Sony officials" to be confirmation either. Still, if not Blu-Ray, do you really expect DVD to be sufficient for another 5+ yr console life cycle?

 

[pcostabel]

Isn't this old news? Weren't two versions rumored, identical to thge PS2/PSX scenario. Don't expect it on the standard PS3 though.

If they only put it in PSX2, it will give them no advantage in estabiilishing BRD as a standard.
Sony wants to own a consumer media standard really bad, but aside from the PlayStation all their attempts have failed so far. I'm sure they won't miss the opportunity to leverage the PS3 success to push BRD.

 

[aaaaa0]

Lu Mu Bai +1

Everything I've heard about Sony's plans indicates BRD will not ship in all PS3 SKUs.

(But plans can always change.)

 

[Zenny]

What's the chances that Sony will release Tetris on a 23 Gigabyte Blue Ray Disk ?

 

[cja]

Slides (in English) and report (Japanese) from the event. They've caved in on UDF and they're seriously looking at H.264 (MPEG4-AVC).

 

[aaaaa0]

Slides (in English) and report (Japanese) from the event. They've caved in on UDF and they're seriously looking at H.264 (MPEG4-AVC).

Did I call that or what.

http://forums.gaming-age.com/showpost.php?p=155169&postcount=30
(Posted 7/16/2004)

BRD has since reconsidered its position on codecs. I'm also happy to say they've reconsidered their decision to use a crappy proprietary filesystem instead of UDF.

 

[DrLazy]

I normally don't come into these blue ray/PS3 threads, so does blue ray = Tive/Dvd recorder? Or is it just a memory storage/qualtiy thing?

 

[Izzy]

I normally don't come into these blue ray/PS3 threads, so does blue ray = Tive/Dvd recorder? Or is it just a memory storage/qualtiy thing?

If they include any
kind of Blu-Ray in stock PS3, it'll be BD-ROM.

 

[Lord Error]

Everything I've heard about Sony's plans indicates BRD will not ship in all PS3 SKUs.

So what will ship in 'regular' PS3? (serious question, btw.) What are the chances they will stick just a plan DVD again, considering that several games already are approaching the limit of it's capacity?

 

[aaaaa0]

So what will ship in 'regular' PS3? (serious question, btw.) What are the chances they will stick just a plan DVD again, considering that several games already are approaching the limit of it's capacity?

Everything I've heard points to a standard DVD drive in the lowest SKU of PS3 for sheer COGS and timeframe reasons.

But like I said before, plans can change, timeframes can alter, my info may be bad and/or old.

 

[Li Mu Bai]

So what will ship in 'regular' PS3? (serious question, btw.) What are the chances they will stick just a plan DVD again, considering that several games already are approaching the limit of it's capacity?

Compression tech. will suddenly sit idle Marco? Voice & cutscenes consume most of the disc space as you know, actual game data demands relatively very little. More efficient proprietary compression tools will make the DVD's space more than sufficient.

 

[aparisi2274]

If the PS3 has a Blu-Ray disc then say hello to this:

Anyone remember that little suckers price tag. You know if Sony continues to use this cutting edge technology in their systems, and jacking the price up, they are going to fuck themselves royally. They will completely alienate their userbase, because most people who play videogames cant afford a machine that is over $300. Or the parents will not pay for something that high.

 

[pcostabel]

Considering that at launch people were paying $1000 for a PS2 on Ebay, I bet that if Sony released a $500 PS3 it will still sell out at launch. After that, they can drop it to $300.

 

[Deg]

Sounds more like PSX .

Considering that at launch people were paying $1000 for a PS2 on Ebay, I bet that if Sony released a $500 PS3 it will still sell out at launch. After that, they can drop it to $300.

Sony are in the position where even if PS3 will be a failiure(it wont) they'll have the biggest launch by far.

 

[RevenantKioku]

Considering that at launch people were paying $1000 for a PS2 on Ebay, I bet that if Sony released a $500 PS3 it will still sell out at launch. After that, they can drop it to $300.

Those people were definitely not the ones who are looking at the $150 price tag and still considering it too high (which I get a lot of mind you).

 

[Suikoguy]

I still think sony can make it cheap enough by 2006

 

[jiggle]

If the PS3 has a Blu-Ray disc then say hello to this:

Anyone remember that little suckers price tag. You know if Sony continues to use this cutting edge technology in their systems, and jacking the price up, they are going to fuck themselves royally. They will completely alienate their userbase, because most people who play videogames cant afford a machine that is over $300. Or the parents will not pay for something that high.

Jacking up the price?? Both PS1/2 debuted at 299, when speculations have them costing alot more. And what userbase did these two end up?

I don't see PS3 costing more than 300.

 

[GIR]

Sony PS3 Developer 1: hey that a cool HD cut scene you included on that game you made, its so detailed, fuck you must have used up 20 SGI workstations rendering that thing, and shit it must be at least 18gb, good thing you got the Sony BRD then, you got enough for the rest of the game too.

Sony PS3 Developer 2: Don’t be ridiculous 20 SGI workstations don’t have the POWER to render such polygons, only PS3 does, I used one to render the whole scene, now I'm gonna store it on this BRD in teh space saving HD MPEG2 video, it only comes out at 17.6gb.

 

[Li Mu Bai]

Considering that at launch people were paying $1000 for a PS2 on Ebay, I bet that if Sony released a $500 PS3 it will still sell out at launch. After that, they can drop it to $300.

pcostabel, those people were fools setup by Sony's initial undershipping. They hardly represent what the general public would be willing to pay. BR is simply too cost prohibitive currently, & by '05 I cannot foesee significant depreciation when Sony must finalize the PS3 & begin manufacturing.

 

[Defensor]

I don't see PS3 costing more than 300.

^ In the states anyway...

 

[jiggle]

^ In the states anyway...

Good enough for me I can wait to buy an import machine.

 

[Defensor]

Good enough for me I can wait to buy an import machine.

Same here. I'm importing a PSP this year from Japan myself

 

[MassiveAttack]

pcostabel, those people were fools setup by Sony's initial undershipping. They hardly represent what the general public would be willing to pay. BR is simply too cost prohibitive currently, & by '05 I cannot foesee significant depreciation when Sony must finalize the PS3 & begin manufacturing.

The manufacturing costs of BR currently are of no importance. PS3 won't begin full scale manufacturing until late 2005 at the earliest. Given the massive importance of PS3 to Sony's "hub" philosophy of hardware development, there is absolutely no way that PS3 will not contain a BR drive of some kind. Anything less than BR support would be absurb given the efforts Sony is making to establish BR as the next DVD standard.

 

[Suikoguy]

The manufacturing costs of BR currently are of no importance. PS3 won't begin full scale manufacturing until late 2005 at the earliest. Given the massive importance of PS3 to Sony's "hub" philosophy of hardware development, there is absolutely no way that PS3 will not contain a BR drive of some kind. Anything less than BR support would be absurb given the efforts Sony is making to establish BR as the next DVD standard.

Yes, with Blue-Ray in the PS3 is pretty much assures that Blueray becomes the next standard beacuse of the number of units it will add.

 

[kaching]

Samsung and LG are planning BRD devices to go on sale before the end of the year in North America. Assuming they don't delay, that'll be our first chance to see how pricing will go for early BRD devices outside of Japan, and how closely they'll match prices of the Sony and Matsushita units released/ing in Japan now. I believe the Matsushita device is expected to retail for the equivalent of approx. 1000 USD less than the Sony unit released earlier this year. If that rate of cost reduction remains consistent, there wouldn't be much to worry about by 2006.

 

[Li Mu Bai]

The manufacturing costs of BR currently are of no importance. PS3 won't begin full scale manufacturing until late 2005 at the earliest. Given the massive importance of PS3 to Sony's "hub" philosophy of hardware development, there is absolutely no way that PS3 will not contain a BR drive of some kind. Anything less than BR support would be absurb given the efforts Sony is making to establish BR as the next DVD standard.

The studios have already voted, or more precisely the DVD consortium. HD/DVD was their medium of choice iirc. If you think "cost is not a factor," you're mistaken. Cost is always a factor, (even for the almighty MS) & given that HDTV will not yet be in every household by '06, Sony will regardless be swallowing a huge loss initially. The extra medium space truly isn't necessary from a developer's standpoint. I know this is standard to launch incurring losses, but if Sony is arrogant enough to believe that they will simply plough through the competition, they may do well to remember Nintendo's place some years back.

 

[SolidSnakex]

"but if Sony is arrogant enough to believe that they will simply plough through the competition, they may do well to remember Nintendo's place some years back."

Have we been through this in the other thread? Comparing the way Sony reacts to the competition and the way Nintendo reacts is laughable. You can't compare the 2 at all.

 

[Li Mu Bai]

"but if Sony is arrogant enough to believe that they will simply plough through the competition, they may do well to remember Nintendo's place some years back."

Have we been through this in the other thread? Comparing the way Sony reacts to the competition and the way Nintendo reacts is laughable. You can't compare the 2 at all.

You assume I'm referring to only Nintendo & not MS as well? I'm not saying that Sony won't be the market leader next-gen, will the gap be near as wide as it currently is? No. And to have such a blind unwavering faith that Sony cannot be dethroned proves you are nothing more than a Sony myrmidon SSX.

 

[Crazymoogle]

The studios have already voted, or more precisely the DVD consortium. HD/DVD was their medium of choice iirc.

Actually, the standard has been split from the beginning. Both sides gathered support and form their own consortiums. This isn't just Sony VS the world - both sides have major players.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I never said they can be topped. But what exactly have they done to be taken over? Nintendo lost because they really were arrogant. They really believed they could do whatever they want and still win. That proved to be wrong. Sony is countering everything that's thrown at them. MS has Live? Sony's gearing up their own version. MS created a development tool to make games easy to port around? Sony's going to do the same. I don't think Sony's going to be as dominant as they have been, I do think they're still going to come out on top because they refuse to let anyone gain ground on them.

 

[Fafalada]

If that rate of cost reduction remains consistent, there wouldn't be much to worry about by 2006.

Sure, for a single speed device.
Now, do you honestly expect a nexgen console to launch with a optical disc SLOWER then two of the current gen consoles?

Better yet, Xenon's current drive spec is 3-4x faster then BRDx1.

 

[Li Mu Bai]

I never said they can be topped. But what exactly have they done to be taken over? Nintendo lost because they really were arrogant. They really believed they could do whatever they want and still win. That proved to be wrong. Sony is countering everything that's thrown at them. MS has Live? Sony's gearing up their own version. MS created a development tool to make games easy to port around? Sony's going to do the same. I don't think Sony's going to be as dominant as they have been, I do think they're still going to come out on top because they refuse to let anyone gain ground on them.

At least you admit this. Just a question, will the PSP wipe out the DS (as well as the GBA II which we already know is in development) & become the dominant handheld IYO?

 

[SolidSnakex]

At least you admit this. Just a question, will the PSP wipe out the DS (as well as the GBA II which we already know is in development) & become the dominant handheld IYO?

No, because Nintendo actually seems to care about the hnadheld market and isn't just going to let Sony walk all over them like they did with consoles. It'll be a fight there.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Lu Mu Bai +1

Everything I've heard about Sony's plans indicates BRD will not ship in all PS3 SKUs.

(But plans can always change.)

Well, I know now which SKU to buy (Blu-Ray ROM version .

Were your info related to Blu-Ray Re-Writeable or Blu-Ray ROM ?

It would be a disappointment to stick with the old DVD format as top option in base PlayStation 3: it would certainly diminuish the adoption rate of Blu-Ray as a standard which with PlayStation 3 supporting Blu-Ray ROM in all of its SKUs would have had a great ally.

I would be afraid that the U.S. would never see the higher priced SKUs if this were true.


aaaaa0, you were right about the file-system decision.

 

[Alcibiades]

No, because Nintendo actually seems to care about the hnadheld market and isn't just going to let Sony walk all over them like they did with consoles. It'll be a fight there.

choosing profability over perception = "walking all over"/"losing"?

look at the financial reports, Nintendo has been making money, Sony, apparantely, as recently as this past quarter lost money (in Playstation dept.) in spite of it's #1 marketshare...

 

[Panajev2001a]

Sure, for a single speed device.
Now, do you honestly expect a nexgen console to launch with a optical disc SLOWER then two of the current gen consoles?

Better yet, Xenon's current drive spec is 3-4x faster then BRDx1.

4x ?

144 Mbps = 18 MB/s ?

That is like a 12x DVD... quite fast if you ask me.

Are you sure that they cannot make an equivalently fast Blu-Ray ROM drive for PlayStation 3 (which ships after Xbox 2).

 

[Li Mu Bai]

No, because Nintendo actually seems to care about the hnadheld market and isn't just going to let Sony walk all over them like they did with consoles. It'll be a fight there.

Good to hear, for a moment I feared you were too far gone. We are both enthusiasts for our consoles/companies of choice, but as long as we're both grounded in reality intelligent dialogue or debate can always ensue.

 

[border]

The studios have already voted, or more precisely the DVD consortium. HD/DVD was their medium of choice iirc.

Studios will go wherever they think the money is. They even supported Divx when they thought it might have a chance! If BRD gets an early introduction and a userbase boots from millions of gamers, some vote from years back won't make a difference -- as far as I know that decision doesn't bind members from supporting one media exclusively. PS3 is essentially Sony's ace-in-the-hole for insuring a strong foothold for BluRay.....I expect them to make it standard in all systems.

 

[Fafalada]

Pana,
12x is what the currently known spec says.

And I'm sure we'll see a 4xBRD sooner or later, I am just questioning how likely it is to see it in a 300$ console in 2006.
The difference for Xenon is that you can already go out and buy a 12x DVD right now.

 

[aaaaa0]

4x ?
144 Mbps = 18 MB/s ?

BD ROM x1 is 54 mbit/s. That is 6.75 MB/s.

Also the spec stated is for video. Real data has higher ECC requirements than video, so I'd expect the transfer rate to drop some for real data.

 

[border]

Will data transfer speeds really make that much of a difference? If the max RAM for next gen systems is going to be ~512 megs, will it really take BRD that much longer to load data (than a DVD that has to load 512 megs as well)? Outside of games that stream data (which totally goes out the window if the consoles have HDDs), would the initial wait time for a "Loading" screen be that long?

 

[aaaaa0]

Will data transfer speeds really make that much of a difference? If the max RAM for next gen systems is going to be ~512 megs, will it really take BRD that much longer to load data (than a DVD that has to load 512 megs as well)?

At 6.75 MB/s, it will take 75 seconds of loading to fill 512 megs.

A 12x DVD-ROM will take about 30 seconds to do the same thing.

Either way, unless developers are smarter, load times are going to suck next generation.