Sony: Disneys decision to cut Spider-Man; Kevin doesn’t have time to work on a non-Disney IP

sol_bad said:
Feige did not have anything to do with Amazing Spider-Man, I'm sure he was making suggestions for the film but they were ignored.
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He is like the second name in the credits dude
He was also responsible for Fantastic Four 1-2
But this is not me pointing out bad films
Because I did actually enjoy them
The newer one sucks ass though.
And as for TASM, I hated the idea of rebooting SM.
But I actually like TASM series despite it's flaws.
It had its own charm
 
TGO said:
giphy.gif

Homecoming doesn't even reach that so called high Marvel bar.
And that is their problem. They can't repeat the quality of the OT.
Hell JJ Jameson never appeared in other Spidy films because of that, the original J K Simmons could not be matched, so much so they got the Simmons to reprise his role in MCU.
You think Green Goblin and Doc Ock haven't been in the newer films because they don't want repeating villains?
No its because no wants to attempt filling those shoes
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You must be joking. Homecoming did lower numbers because it was a x3 rehash in the past 10 years. That's why far from home took off. Spider-Man was fully integrated in the mcu and had people fully committed. Now a lot of people simply wont give a shit.

Time will tell but I bet you see Spider-Man die like the X-men did. And no the Spider-Man OT is cheesy as all get out by today's standards. It has its moments but by and large it's dreck. Especially the romance portions, complete garbage. I will give you Doc Oc is top tier but nothing that couldn't be replicated. GG honestly was pretty weak. In and out in 1 movie? Come on. And Doc received similar treatment.
 
gatti-man said:
You must be joking. Homecoming did lower numbers because it was a x3 rehash in the past 10 years. That's why far from home took off. Spider-Man was fully integrated in the mcu and had people fully committed. Now a lot of people simply wont give a shit.

Time will tell but I bet you see Spider-Man die like the X-men did. And no the Spider-Man OT is cheesy as all get out by today's standards. It has its moments but by and large it's dreck. Especially the romance portions, complete garbage. I will give you Doc Oc is top tier but nothing that couldn't be replicated. GG honestly was pretty weak. In and out in 1 movie? Come on. And Doc received similar treatment.
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X-Men has been running for nearly 20 years on a single IP
Their main star is gone and Disney had taken over the IP.
23 movies and ten years later Marvel ends not one, but two of the key stars to the MCU
And the rest don't look good.
The MCU has gone from X-Men to Inhumans in blip
Maybe I'm wrong, but the MCU doesn't look very exciting now.
 
TGO said:
He is like the second name in the credits dude
He was also responsible for Fantastic Four 1-2
But this is not me pointing out bad films
Because I did actually enjoy them
The newer one sucks ass though.
And as for TASM, I hated the idea of rebooting SM.
But I actually like TASM series despite it's flaws.
It had its own charm
Click to expand...

Before Marvel Studios was created Feige was a co-producer and executive producer in many films. He didn't really have any control over those films though, they are all the definition of assembly line films. The studios dictated what they thought the films should be.

With Iron Man he was a proper producer and finally got to help make the movies he wanted . Keep in mind that most of the time, executive producer means nothing, even Stan Lee is listed as executive producer but he was never involved with production. Same with Favreu, any movie with Iron Man has him as executive producer even though he wasn't involved
 
gatti-man said:
You must be joking. Homecoming did lower numbers because it was a x3 rehash in the past 10 years. That's why far from home took off. Spider-Man was fully integrated in the mcu and had people fully committed. Now a lot of people simply wont give a shit.

Time will tell but I bet you see Spider-Man die like the X-men did. And no the Spider-Man OT is cheesy as all get out by today's standards. It has its moments but by and large it's dreck. Especially the romance portions, complete garbage. I will give you Doc Oc is top tier but nothing that couldn't be replicated. GG honestly was pretty weak. In and out in 1 movie? Come on. And Doc received similar treatment.
Click to expand...

Time will tell that today's standards aren't going to be the same in the future. The MCU up to this point will be judged by others. They will see its flaws as we see the flaws of earlier movies.
Spider-Man in Civil War is what pushed that movie into the Billion dollar club.
The world loves Spidey, and has for decades.
The world also loves comics, but a ton of the characters need the rest of their universe to be carried on.
 
The original 2 Spider-Man films are classics. I don't think they've come close to matching those. I haven't seen Far From Home yet, but Homecoming, while better than the shitty Andrew Garfield movies, still wasn't all that great when compared to the originals. It sucks that Spider-Man isn't going to be in the MCU anymore, but if it means focusing on character interactions like Spider-Man vs. Venom, then I am ALL for it.
 
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I'm not all for it with the current incarnation of Venom. Sorry. I don't usually say this but I hope Venom 2, Morbius and Silver Sable all flop.
 
Silve
sol_bad said:
I'm not all for it with the current incarnation of Venom. Sorry. I don't usually say this but I hope Venom 2, Morbius and Silver Sable all flop.
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silver sable and morbius have very little chance of doing well especially without mcu support.
TGO said:
X-Men has been running for nearly 20 years on a single IP
Their main star is gone and Disney had taken over the IP.
23 movies and ten years later Marvel ends not one, but two of the key stars to the MCU
And the rest don't look good.
The MCU has gone from X-Men to Inhumans in blip
Maybe I'm wrong, but the MCU doesn't look very exciting now.
Click to expand...
MCU just ended a major arc on its most profitable film to date. That's kindof how arcs work is at the end excitement deflated and then you build towards something new. The reaction to far from home tells me the mcu is doing just fine. They still have fat Thor, the guardians, FF4, X-men, Deadpool, cable, Loki, Hulk, BW, tons of fan favorites.

Sony has Spider-Man and Venom. Mysterio was really well done too so maybe they have 3 dynamic characters. That's why it will fail. Unless they knock every side character out of the park people will lose interest. And Spider-Man's villains are never huge they are all relatively small.
 
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gatti-man said:
MCU just ended a major arc on its most profitable film to date. That's kindof how arcs work is at the end excitement deflated and then you build towards something new. The reaction to far from home tells me the mcu is doing just fine. They still have fat Thor, the guardians, FF4, X-men, Deadpool, cable, Loki, Hulk, BW, tons of fan favorites.

Sony has Spider-Man and Venom. Mysterio was really well done too so maybe they have 3 dynamic characters. That's why it will fail. Unless they knock every side character out of the park people will lose interest. And Spider-Man's villains are never huge they are all relatively small.
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I've got to disagree there for sure.
Other than Batman, Spider-Man has the best rogues gallery in comics by far. The only Marvel villain that is better than the Spider-Man villains is Doom.

What other comic franchise has given us 7 films without reusing many of the villains seen on screen already?

Spider-Man movies have already given us:

Green Goblin
Doctor Octopus
Sandman
Venom
Lizard
Electro
Rhino
Vulture
Shocker
Mysterio

They can still do:

Kraven
Chameleon
Scorpion
Carnage
Kingpin
Hobgoblin
Hammerhead
Tombstone
Black Cat
Silver Sable
Morbius

They can easily reintroduce Green Goblin, Doctor Octopus or Sandman again as well as its been a long time since we've seen them on screen and then we also still have the possibility of villain team ups like the Sinister Six.

The Spider-Man franchise is an absolute goldmine of interesting characters and villains. It just needs the right talent behind the camera and writing the scripts. You could easily make compelling Spider-Man movies for the next 10 years, no problem.
 
NutJobJim said:
I've got to disagree there for sure.
Other than Batman, Spider-Man has the best rogues gallery in comics by far. The only Marvel villain that is better than the Spider-Man villains is Doom.

What other comic franchise has given us 7 films without reusing many of the villains seen on screen already?

Spider-Man movies have already given us:

Green Goblin
Doctor Octopus
Sandman
Venom
Lizard
Electro
Rhino
Vulture
Shocker
Mysterio

They can still do:

Kraven
Chameleon
Scorpion
Carnage
Kingpin
Hobgoblin
Hammerhead
Tombstone
Black Cat
Silver Sable
Morbius

They can easily reintroduce Green Goblin, Doctor Octopus or Sandman again as well as its been a long time since we've seen them on screen and then we also still have the possibility of villain team ups like the Sinister Six.

The Spider-Man franchise is an absolute goldmine of interesting characters and villains. It just needs the right talent behind the camera and writing the scripts. You could easily make compelling Spider-Man movies for the next 10 years, no problem.
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There was also that rumour that Green Goblin was going to be the main villain in phase 4.
Would have been interesting
I imagine Green Goblin will show up in Spider Man 3
it's probably how Peter will lose MJ/Michele and the real MJ will be introduced
 
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lol as if counting the number of characters makes any difference.

also to the general public, Loki, Fantastic 4, Black Widow, these are all side characters. MCU hasn't exactly treated them right either.

i would say MCU proves all you have to do is keep pumping out product, quality or popularity of the characters be damned. nobody cared about Iron Man when that came out, or Guardians of the Galaxy. if Sony can has together a Spider-Man movie ever year or two they will do fine. Marvel seems to be banking on tv shows at the moment but i don't know if something like WandaVision is really going to set the world on fire.
 
PrCat88 said:
.... Sony still can namedrop Marvel characters ...
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They have to drop all MCU references in the next solo film if they end the Disney / Sony deal. Disney, on the other hand, can no longer reference Spidey / any IP Sony owns. They'll both have to steer around that big obstacle and it'll be a pretty big mess considering the position they've gotten themselves into with the Spidey movies they did.

The issue with the deal potentially falling through is that Sony will eventually run this franchise into the ground. By the time they're willing to make another deal with Disney / sell the rights back, the MCU will have moved on heavily from the times where Spidey was referenced and/or integral to the stories. Then you have a Spidey that suddenly pops up again with 10-20 films where they glossed over his existence. That sucks for movie goers and fans.
 
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#Phonepunk# said:
lol as if counting the number of characters makes any difference.

also to the general public, Loki, Fantastic 4, Black Widow, these are all side characters. MCU hasn't exactly treated them right either.

i would say MCU proves all you have to do is keep pumping out product, quality or popularity of the characters be damned. nobody cared about Iron Man when that came out, or Guardians of the Galaxy. if Sony can has together a Spider-Man movie ever year or two they will do fine. Marvel seems to be banking on tv shows at the moment but i don't know if something like WandaVision is really going to set the world on fire.
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Banking on TV shows? They are still putting out just as many movies as usual.
Black Widow and Eternals next year.
Shang Chi, Doctor Strange 2 and Thor 4 in 2021.

They have expanded to TV shows but they aren't banking on them. For a long time Feiege ha said and hinted that he wanted to start doing the "one-shot" short films again. Doing an actual TV show is even better than the short films they used to make.
 
NutJobJim said:
I've got to disagree there for sure.
Other than Batman, Spider-Man has the best rogues gallery in comics by far. The only Marvel villain that is better than the Spider-Man villains is Doom.

What other comic franchise has given us 7 films without reusing many of the villains seen on screen already?

Spider-Man movies have already given us:

Green Goblin
Doctor Octopus
Sandman
Venom
Lizard
Electro
Rhino
Vulture
Shocker
Mysterio

They can still do:

Kraven
Chameleon
Scorpion
Carnage
Kingpin
Hobgoblin
Hammerhead
Tombstone
Black Cat
Silver Sable
Morbius

They can easily reintroduce Green Goblin, Doctor Octopus or Sandman again as well as its been a long time since we've seen them on screen and then we also still have the possibility of villain team ups like the Sinister Six.

The Spider-Man franchise is an absolute goldmine of interesting characters and villains. It just needs the right talent behind the camera and writing the scripts. You could easily make compelling Spider-Man movies for the next 10 years, no problem.
Click to expand...
it doesn't matter what they can and can't do. Only what they can do well. They did venom well 1 out of 2 times. Mysterio and doc oc. All the others were pretty damn mediocre. None of those other villains you list will move the needle on their own. They aren't powerful or dynamic enough to bring people to theaters besides Catnage and maybe kingpin.

Spider-Man will go stale without other heroes and larger villains. Your post really spells that out even better than my own imo.
 
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#Phonepunk# said:
lol as if counting the number of characters makes any difference.

also to the general public, Loki, Fantastic 4, Black Widow, these are all side characters. MCU hasn't exactly treated them right either.

i would say MCU proves all you have to do is keep pumping out product, quality or popularity of the characters be damned. nobody cared about Iron Man when that came out, or Guardians of the Galaxy. if Sony can has together a Spider-Man movie ever year or two they will do fine. Marvel seems to be banking on tv shows at the moment but i don't know if something like WandaVision is really going to set the world on fire.
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It's true, the characters alone are useless if they aren't handled correctly and used in decent movies.
My point was that the Spider-Man franchise is rich with characters and that those characters could be used to create many sequels for many years should Sony choose. Spider-Man doesn't need the rest of the MCU to produce good movies set within his own universe.

Interesting point re the MCU being successful simply because they keep on pumping out films. So you're saying that the key to success is keeping a healthy constant stream of mediocrity, with the odd good film sprinkled in, and the masses will just lap it up?

gatti-man said:
it doesn't matter what they can and can't do. Only what they can do well. They did venom well 1 out of 2 times. Mysterio and doc oc. All the others were pretty damn mediocre. None of those other villains you list will move the needle on their own. They aren't powerful or dynamic enough to bring people to theaters besides Catnage and maybe kingpin.

Spider-Man will go stale without other heroes and larger villains. Your post really spells that out even better than my own imo.
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I'll disagree again here.
Villains that the Spider-Man franchise has done well include Green Goblin, Doctor Octopus, Sandman, Vulture and Mysterio. That's already better than the villains that the MCU alone has given us.

It's true that the villains themselves don't matter if they aren't used correctly but the point is that Sony owns a shit load of characters and have proven that they are capable of doing Spider-Man villains well in the past.

Who does the MCU have that is 'poweful or dynamic enough to bring people to theatres?'

People will come for good movies. Spider-Man is an extremely strong IP in terms of brand recognition. Sony should have a far easier job selling Spider-Man 3 to the masses than Marvel will have selling characters like Shang Chi or The Eternals.
 
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Vulture and Mysterio are MCU.
;)

*EDIT*
People don't see comic and MCU movies for the villains, they go for the heroes.
 
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sol_bad said:
Vulture and Mysterio are MCU.
;)

*EDIT*
People don't see comic and MCU movies for the villains, they go for the heroes.
Click to expand...

I thought that too but apparently not.
The solo Tom Holland Spider-Man movies are Sony movies. Sony hired the cast and did the majority of the work. The MCU Spider-Man films are Civil War, Infinity War and Endgame.

Also re people not going to see comic book movies to see villains, one of the biggest criticisms of the MCU has been the lack of compelling villains. Look at how much praise Infinity War got for finally featuring a decent villain in Thanos. The villains are just as important, there can be no hero story without the villains. The hero appears in every movie, the villain is usually the unique role that changes each film and brings something different to each film.

I do get what you're saying but I think it's a little naive to say that the villain role doesnt generate interest in a movie. I suppose we'll get an idea of how interested the general public are in villain stories when Joker comes out...
 
After the venom movie I honestly wanted movies with the villains as the main leads. Give us dark depressing horror origin stories of the villains. Just not the artsy style of the new joker please. Considering how many villains spiderman's city seems to get you could easily just create your own universe with just that or at least a gotham like tv show. They could also change spiderman to an middle aged out of shape guy to match the venom time line.
 
NutJobJim said:
I thought that too but apparently not.
The solo Tom Holland Spider-Man movies are Sony movies. Sony hired the cast and did the majority of the work. The MCU Spider-Man films are Civil War, Infinity War and Endgame.
Click to expand...

After Spider-Man 3, TAS1, TAS2 and Venom you can't believe that. The quality difference is too different. Even looking at the quality of the majority of their films over the past 3-5 years should tell you they don't know what they are doing. In the past year they have had incredible films like The Girl in the Spider's Web, Holmes & Watson, Escape Room, A Dogs Way Home and Miss Bala, oh and Men in Black International.

The public word is that Sony had final approval of everything. Kevin Feige and Amy Pascal were the producers. Now based on the shit that Amy Pascal was spouting before (or after) the release of Homecoming, she was insinuating that Holland Spidey and Venom could meet up as they are the same universe. She said this publicly and Feige was visually shocked with what he just heard. She had no idea what was going on about and she was clearly not steering the ship. The fact that those 2 characters didn't meet up and aren't in the same universe shows that Marvel was steering the ship.

Sony couldn't even get the same director the return for Venom 2. Granted, he has Zombieland 2 to do and he is producing Bad Trip. As great an actor as Andy Serkis is, his Jungle Book movie that he directed doesn't inspire much hope for the Venom sequel.
 
Not all the MCU films are great even if they make big money.

Thor 1/2 weren't anything special. IM2 and 3 are either divisive or not well liked. Same could be said about Captain Marvel. Ant-Man 1+2 are middle of the pack movies nothing amazing or special. Avengers 2 was seen as a disappointment. Even Cap 1 which I love, many don't like at all and rank it near the bottom (for me its one of the best Marvel movies).

Cap and IM are gone. The product is about to get really oversaturated with all of the Disney + stuff. And the direction is going pretty woke. There isn't really much excitment for the next phase they announced at D23. CM2, BP2, GOTG3, Thor 4 I think will all be money makers, but we might actually see some marvel bombs.
 
slugbahr said:
Time will tell that today's standards aren't going to be the same in the future. The MCU up to this point will be judged by others. They will see its flaws as we see the flaws of earlier movies.
Spider-Man in Civil War is what pushed that movie into the Billion dollar club.
The world loves Spidey, and has for decades.
The world also loves comics, but a ton of the characters need the rest of their universe to be carried on.
Click to expand...

That's revisionist history. Not the case at all. Marvel was already expecting 1.25B for Civil War before the Spider-man deal was finalized.

As a matter of fact one can make the logical argument that adding Spider-man didn't really do anything to Civil War's domestic gross. After all people were arguing Spider-man in it didn't add much to the movie (and it didn't) and the movie already had all the Avengers minus Thor and Hulk.
 
NutJobJim said:
They can still do:

Kraven
Chameleon
Scorpion
Carnage
Kingpin
Hobgoblin
Hammerhead
Tombstone
Black Cat
Silver Sable
Morbius
Click to expand...

IF Sony can use Kingpin (Nkt surenif they can since he really crosses into multiple characters's paths), Sony better have the smarts to go after D'Onofrio. They'd win fans back big time.
 
Sad because a Spider-Man 3 was gonna come out and because of his departure all plans are ruined losing Spider-Man is gonna be significant to Marvel and the fans I hope Disney can come to terms although not likely with Sony because we all want Spider-man back to Marvel.
 
MayauMiao said:
Sony is afraid Disney will hand over the creative decision to Kathleen Kennedy. She'll probably end up turning Spider-Man into Spider-Them/They.
Click to expand...

Lol. Dude, all the studios are pretty woke these days. Except, some of them don't go as hard as Disney. Disney so woke, even sleeping beauty is jealous.
 
I'm pretty sad we are not getting Spidey in the MCU anymore. Hopefully they can finally do Spider-Man vs. Venom on screen right this time, though. That will be the only saving grace from this whole thing.
 
I just hate that they will keep using Tom Holland, I know reports say that Disney were being a bunch of cunts about it but it just feels like Sony were using Marvel to get their IP on track again and have them fix it for them. Now that Spidey's image has been fixed after they tarnished it with SM3, ASM1 and ASM2 they are running with it.

Spider-Verse is incredible, Venom was a piece of shit that felt like all the other Sony/Fox schlock that came out in the early 2000's. Then to top it all off Sony couldn't even get the same director or screenplay writers to return for the sequel. of Venom Andy Serkis is a great actor but his Mowgli film is pretty average, I get the feeling Sony will push him around and make him change things, I have no hope.

*EDIT*
My apologies, 1 out of the 3 screenplay writers is returning.
 
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DeafTourette said:
I don't think they're the only ones who are reporting this...
Click to expand...

If it turns out to be true, why the fuck are Sony being pushy about Venom? Look what happened with Spider-Man 3 when they pushed Venom, why are they obsessed with Venom?.
The Venom film feels like an early 2000's super hero film, the MCU feel like modern day films. They don't gel together.

Sure, offer the 30% but why push for Venom? Are they seriously not confident in their own film making skills to make Venom 2 a success without the MCU? When would you put Venom time line wise in the MCU if they need to make it cannon? If Disney accept these terms, will Sony allow them to re-cast Venom so it has nothing to do with the Tom Hardy version?
 
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