Support NeoGAF

[LiquidSolid]

Not first party, but Sony's really dropped the ball with regards to indie games recently. So many games are being announced for either Switch or X1 timed or full exclusives. I haven't seen much from Sony on this front in ages now.

I guess losing people like Shahid and Nick Suttner has hurt them in that regard.

Are you there's more of them or is there a larger spotlight being shone upon them because a) The Switch is about to launch and they just had an indie showcase and b) It's harder to stand out amongst the crowd on PS4 because that's where pretty much every indie game is. My bet is on the latter and you just haven't been paying enough attention.

You should all remember Sony have had some real bomba's with funding a lot of these whimsical indie games with few relative hits outside a few games like Journey.

Look at Bound, Flower, Unfinished Swan (which took forever to make), Kill Strain were all bombs according to Colin on the latest KF podcast.
Edith Finch also staying in limbo for the last 4-5 years is unacceptable.

It's smart of Sony to fund less of these and focus on fewer titles and more 1st party stuff, as a lot of those indie AAA games come defacto to PS4 anyway if a publisher grabs them; they won't ignore the massive PS4 userbase.

They are keeping the more prosperous relationships with House Marque alive at least.

Colin says a lot of things. He isn't a reliable source.

 

[mejin]

Not first party, but Sony's really dropped the ball with regards to indie games recently. So many games are being announced for either Switch or X1 timed or full exclusives. I haven't seen much from Sony on this front in ages now.

I guess losing people like Shahid and Nick Suttner has hurt them in that regard.

Well, if you don't see the many, many indies games that come and will come to PS4 that's really not Sony's fault.

Switch or X1 still are way behind PS4. And its not like indies aren't free to get money from other manufacturers for timed exclusives. Several indie games will still be available on PS4 in the future.

 

[OléGunner]

I don't think Flower was a bomb at all, and I would question where he got his information on Bound and The Unfinished Swan. Killstrain was definitely something nobody asked for or cared about, however. Aren't the Kinda Funny guys notorious for running their mouths off about stuff they don't understand?

Colin says a lot of things. He isn't a reliable source.

I agree sometimes Colin is off the mark but he's the only source we have.
And if they were financially successful products then you wouldn't see all this downsizing happening.

In house Sony seems to be going back to mainly funding AAA projects.

 

[Theslammer]

Are you there's more of them or is there a larger spotlight being shone upon them because a) The Switch is about to launch and they just had an indie showcase and b) It's harder to stand out amongst the crowd on PS4 because that's where pretty much every indie game is. My bet is on the latter and you just haven't been paying enough attention.



Colin says a lot of things. He isn't a reliable source.

Aw man, really? I was just getting into their videos and really enjoyed how wonderfully they avoided spoilers while reviewing Horizon Zero Dawn.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Aw man, really? I was just getting into their videos and really enjoyed how wonderfully they avoided spoilers while reviewing Horizon Zero Dawn.

According to him the pro is a bomba

 

[Corpsepyre]

I wonder what second game SSM is working on. They're a team of 200+. Surely they can't just be working on GoW. Maybe a wholly new IP?

 

[Nightengale]

I wonder what second game SSM is working on. They're a team of 200+. Surely they can't just be working on GoW. Maybe a wholly new IP?

200+ is not a lot.

 

[Raylan]

You should all remember Sony have had some real bomba's with funding a lot of these whimsical indie games with few relative hits outside a few games like Journey.

Look at Bound, Flower, Unfinished Swan (which took forever to make), Kill Strain were all bombs according to Colin on the latest KF podcast.

Colin talks a lot of BS. Most of his stuff is just his personal opinion. He talks a lot.... with zero sources to back that shit up. So yeah, don't use him as a source for reliable information.

I wonder what second game SSM is working on. They're a team of 200+. Surely they can't just be working on GoW. Maybe a wholly new IP?

? 200+ is small. Of course all 200+ of them are working on God of War.
The days of 100 "men/women working on 1 AAA game" are over. That was the PS2 era/gen.
It's 250 for one AAA game (in Sony's case). Sometimes (see Ubisoft) you need twice as many employees for an AAA game.

 

[OléGunner]

I wonder what second game SSM is working on. They're a team of 200+. Surely they can't just be working on GoW. Maybe a wholly new IP?

I'm pretty sure that project is an all hands on deck situation, especially after the last stab at a new IP didn't come together.
They need everyone to contribute and get their first real PS4 project out.

Colin talks a lot of BS. Most of his stuff is just his personal opinion. He talks a lot.... with zero sources to back that shit up. So yeah, don't use him as a source for reliable information.

Fair enough.
I've followed Colin is an industry "pundit" for so many years so when he says stuff like that I tend to take him on his word.

Again, his rhetoric on poor performing in house indie games seemed to match Sony's current strategy imo but sure I won't treat all his sales talk as Gospel.

 

[Suzzopher]

Well, if you don't see the many, many indies games that come and will come to PS4 that's really not Sony's fault.

Switch or X1 still are way behind PS4. And its not like indies aren't free to get money from other manufacturers for timed exclusives. Several indie games will still be available on PS4 in the future.

I'm talking more of how Sony used to have indies front and centre. We'd get loads of big indie exclusives monthly, often fronting PS + for the month.

Remember this was everywhere

Now there seems to be a lot less indie love coming from Sony.

 

[Zukkoyaki]

Sony has just dialed back their funding and publishing of indies. It seems at some point over the past couple of years a lightbulb went off and they realized they no longer need to do that. Why spend money and resources on these indie games when indie developers flock to your platform in droves, often as console exclusives, anyway?

Those published indies were a huge part of PlayStation's identity last generation and helped that scene rise up to be a major pillar of the industry but their involvement, to the point of personally funding these projects, is no longer necessary. That sector of the market is self-sustaining now.

 

[Icolin]

Aren't the Kinda Funny guys notorious for running their mouths off about stuff they don't understand?

Colin says a lot of things. He isn't a reliable source.

Colin talks a lot of BS. Most of his stuff is just his personal opinion. He talks a lot.... with zero sources to back that shit up. So yeah, don't use him as a source for reliable information.

He's covered Playstation for the past decade, so it's safe to assume that he knows people at these studios, especially the likes of ND, SSM, SD, given that he's done interviews, coverage, etc for their games.

 

[Icolin]

Look at Bound, Flower, Unfinished Swan (which took forever to make), Kill Strain were all bombs according to Colin on the latest KF podcast.
Edith Finch also staying in limbo for the last 4-5 years is unacceptable.

Not just that, but he said that Sony Santa Monica pretty much just cut out their entire XDEV team.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

That doesn't mean he knows how those games performed.

 

[Icolin]

That doesn't mean he knows how those games performed.

I'd say it's pretty obvious how those games did if Sony Santa Monica drops all their XDEV games in the pipeline (What Remains of Edith Finch, Wattam, etc) and the Kill Strain team gets laid off.

I'm a fan of these types of games like many ITT, but I think the ship's sailed unfortunately.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

I'd say it's pretty obvious how those games did if Sony Santa Monica drops all their XDEV games in the pipeline (What Remains of Edith Finch, Wattam, etc) and the Kill Strain team gets laid off.

I'm a fan of these types of games like many ITT, but I think the ship's sailed unfortunately.

It is fine if you feel that way. It isn't fact though and Colin of all people shouldn't be used to support a statement like that. It is very difficult for him to separate his own musings from matters.

 

[Acquiescence]

You should all remember Sony have had some real bomba's with funding a lot of these whimsical indie games with few relative hits outside a few games like Journey.

Look at Bound, Flower, Unfinished Swan (which took forever to make), Kill Strain were all bombs according to Colin on the latest KF podcast.
Edith Finch also staying in limbo for the last 4-5 years is unacceptable.

It's smart of Sony to fund less of these and focus on fewer titles and more 1st party stuff, as a lot of those indie AAA games come defacto to PS4 anyway if a publisher grabs them; they won't ignore the massive PS4 userbase.

They are keeping the more prosperous relationships with House Marque alive at least.

Yeah, it is interesting to note that, where exclusive indie games are concerned, Sony has dialed back considerably as of late. I think it makes sense to be honest. Games like Rime, Edith Finch and Wattam will fly under the radar for most PS4 owners and do nothing to push system sales, whereas at the same time often undergoing long and/or troubled development cycles. Is it worth Sony pouring money into these smaller projects for long periods of time only to see them fail to make their money back more often than not?

As long as that money is being put to better use, like using it to fund more AA/AAA exclusives for instance, then I don't have a problem with this recent trend of abandoning indie exclusives. I was really excited for Wattam and Rime at one point, but when they've been worked on for this long with nothing to show for it, you do start to wonder what the point is of Sony throwing money at those projects in the first place. It's also better for the development teams themselves who have a better chance of making their money back by going multi-platform, rather than straddling that weird line between receiving an added marketing boost for being exclusive but also still being so niche that they don't make much of an impact on PSN anyway.

For every Journey, there are god knows how many Kill Strain's.

 

[mejin]

I'm talking more of how Sony used to have indies front and centre. We'd get loads of big indie exclusives monthly, often fronting PS + for the month.

Remember this was everywhere

Now there seems to be a lot less indie love coming from Sony.

I do agree with that. Less exposure for them in the main events, but we still have PSX where lots of indies can interact with playstation community. We have Playstation channel on youtube, Playstation Blog.

Right now we have bigger games coming soon so there is less time for indies on the stage but games are still coming. Some developer don't need Sony anymore to launch their games like Housemarque, for example.

 

[Icolin]

Yeah, it is interesting to note that, where exclusive indie games are concerned, Sony has dialed back considerably as of late. I think it makes sense to be honest. Games like Rime, Edith Finch and Wattam will fly under the radar for most PS4 owners and do nothing to push system sales, whereas at the same time often undergoing long and/or troubled development cycles. Is it worth Sony pouring money into these smaller projects for long periods of time only to see them fail to make their money back more often than not?

As long as that money is being put to better use, like using it to fund more AA/AAA exclusives for instance, then I don't have a problem with this recent trend of abandoning indie exclusives. I was really excited for Wattam and Rime at one point, but when they've been worked on for this long with nothing to show for it, you do start to wonder what the point is of Sony throwing money at those projects in the first place. It's also better for the development teams themselves who have a better chance of making their money back by going multi-platform, rather than straddling that weird line between receiving an added marketing boost for being exclusive but also still being so niche that they don't make much of an impact on PSN anyway.

For every Journey, there are god knows how many Kill Strain's.

I completely agree with this.

 

[Zukkoyaki]

Kill Strain really is a bummer because it's a pretty fun and mechanically sound game. Honestly I think being F2P killed it. If it had been retooled into something like a $10-$15 downloadable game and launched free on PS+ when it first released I think it would have done significantly better.

 

[jayu26]

What the hell is this indie concerned? Did we not just see awesome PSX that was filled with more indie games than you could possibly play? Sure they are not publishing them, but that doesn't mean they are not coming.

 

[sense]

I think some of you need to realize that indies are not going to push the needle any further for ps4 and there is no benefit in sony having a game like wattam or what remains of edith finch exclusive because you have to spend more money investing and promoting for very little or no return. At which point you are just hurting the game by keeping it away from targeting the largest market possible.

There are just so many indie games coming out that any sort of exclusivity will just let people forget about the game and move to the next one. Besides 90% of the indie games do come to ps4 and some of thwm are console exclusives.

 

[Dabi]

I'm talking more of how Sony used to have indies front and centre. We'd get loads of big indie exclusives monthly, often fronting PS + for the month.

Remember this was everywhere

Now there seems to be a lot less indie love coming from Sony.

I guess its a combination of them choosing the wrong indie titles to back plus the competition you get when other publishers are pushing indie content of their own. Indie games are not as scarce as they used to be. They're everywhere.

 

[McMoneyman]

Man I wish Sony would port their PS3 collections to PS4, considering how they put Ratchet, Jak, Sly and others on Vita. Would be nice to play them on PS4.

 

[Wedzi]

Man I wish Sony would port their PS3 collections to PS4, considering how they put Ratchet, Jak, Sly and others on Vita. Would be nice to play them on PS4.

Give me a team ICO trilogy collection on PS4 or give me death

 

[N.Domixis]

Not first party, but Sony's really dropped the ball with regards to indie games recently. So many games are being announced for either Switch or X1 timed or full exclusives. I haven't seen much from Sony on this front in ages now.

I guess losing people like Shahid and Nick Suttner has hurt them in that regard.

Sony was eaten alive for being an indie machine at the beginning of the gen by the other side, remember? Sony made the right choice to put less focus on them, now that their first parties are ramping up. Marketing indies was leading to negative pr.

 

[Wiggy]

Man I wish Sony would port their PS3 collections to PS4, considering how they put Ratchet, Jak, Sly and others on Vita. Would be nice to play them on PS4.

Yeah I'd love that

 

[LiquidSolid]

I agree sometimes Colin is off the mark but he's the only source we have.
And if they were financially successful products then you wouldn't see all this downsizing happening.

In house Sony seems to be going back to mainly funding AAA projects.

Uh, that's not how things work. An unreliable source is an unreliable source, not to be trusted no matter how little information we have.

And so far, the only downsizing has been at SIE Santa Monica. Rime's the only non-SSM they've dropped.

Aw man, really? I was just getting into their videos and really enjoyed how wonderfully they avoided spoilers while reviewing Horizon Zero Dawn.

Nobodies stopping you from enjoying their content, just don't take what they say as gospel.

Personally, I can't stand Colin. He is prone to confirmation bias (see: his insistence the Pro is a flop, even though Sony has specifically said otherwise) and often comes off like an extremely close minded person. When I want my punditry, I go to Giant Bomb or Easy Allies.

 

[Lan Dong Mik]

This has probably already been said but man I was just thinking about how much ass Sony is kicking right now with all of these exclusives. Two months into 2017:

Nioh
Horizon
Yakuza 0
Gravity Rush 2
Nier Automata
RE7:VR (yeah I know, kind of a stretch but I think it's worth mentioning)
Hatsune Miku

That's insane to me. All of those games have an 80 or above MC score as well. Hats off to Sony, they are absolutely killing it right now. Can't remember the last time this many quality console exclusives all came out within a two month range.

 

[McMoneyman]

This has probably already been said but man I was just thinking about how much ass Sony is kicking right now with all of these exclusives. Two months into 2017:

Nioh
Horizon
Yakuza 0
Gravity Rush 2
Nier Automata
RE7:VR (yeah I know, kind of a stretch but I think it's worth mentioning)
Hatsune Miku

That's insane to me. All of those games have an 80 or above MC score as well. Hats off to Sony, they are absolutely killing it right now. Can't remember the last time this many quality console exclusives all came out within a two month range.

Don't forget Kingdom Hearts.

 

[AgentChris]

Greatness has been delivered?

 

[HeisenbergWW62]

Greatness has been delivered?

Greatness was delivered with Bloodborne

 

[2blackcats]

Give me a team ICO trilogy collection on PS4 or give me death

I'd love the GoW games. I've still never played any except the odd time at a friends for an hour or 2.

I do own quite a few though.

 

[AmuroChan]

Not first party, but Sony's really dropped the ball with regards to indie games recently. So many games are being announced for either Switch or X1 timed or full exclusives. I haven't seen much from Sony on this front in ages now.

I guess losing people like Shahid and Nick Suttner has hurt them in that regard.

Did you miss PSX? There were a lot of console-first or console-exclusive indies in the sizzle reels. Absolver, Pyre, Boundless, Edith Finch, Vane, to name a few.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

I'd love the GoW games. I've still never played any except the odd time at a friends for an hour or 2.

I do own quite a few though.

Don't say that. I own them all (some twice over) but I would buy a collection of the whole series again on PS4, mug that I am!

 

[OléGunner]

Yeah, it is interesting to note that, where exclusive indie games are concerned, Sony has dialed back considerably as of late. I think it makes sense to be honest. Games like Rime, Edith Finch and Wattam will fly under the radar for most PS4 owners and do nothing to push system sales, whereas at the same time often undergoing long and/or troubled development cycles. Is it worth Sony pouring money into these smaller projects for long periods of time only to see them fail to make their money back more often than not?

As long as that money is being put to better use, like using it to fund more AA/AAA exclusives for instance, then I don't have a problem with this recent trend of abandoning indie exclusives. I was really excited for Wattam and Rime at one point, but when they've been worked on for this long with nothing to show for it, you do start to wonder what the point is of Sony throwing money at those projects in the first place. It's also better for the development teams themselves who have a better chance of making their money back by going multi-platform, rather than straddling that weird line between receiving an added marketing boost for being exclusive but also still being so niche that they don't make much of an impact on PSN anyway.

For every Journey, there are god knows how many Kill Strain's.

Agree with your post whole heartedly Acqui.
I even forget about Rime and Wattam, which serve as further evidence.

Uh, that's not how things work. An unreliable source is an unreliable source, not to be trusted no matter how little information we have.

And so far, the only downsizing has been at SIE Santa Monica. Rime's the only non-SSM they've dropped.

Come now the guy has been in the gaming industry for a little over 10 years, Colin has legit sources.

It doesn't make sense to outright DISMISS everything he says or muses about.
Again I'm not saying he's always correct but that's just close minded.

Just take what he says with a pinch of salt.

 

[Nightengale]

Colin has his issues with his preconcieved bias on some things, but generally when he says he "knows" something industry-related, he's probably right because he has connections and friendships to plenty of industry people.

Eg. when he says SSM external development is "all gone", it's likely true reflective of how games like Edith Finch, Wattam and Zombie Taxi Company seems to no longer be affliated with SSM. Bound was the only one that remained, and chances are they've re-organised to focus on internal development.

That being said, external development does still happen. But losing SSM ex.dev does have implications because SSM was always the quirkier one in the ex.dev family of funding.

Anyway, enough of that. This is my prediction for Sony's remainder calendar year that I recall some of you said/guessed, either here or somewhere else:

 

[Eggbok]

Colin has his issues with his preconcieved bias on some things, but generally when he says he "knows" something industry-related, he's probably right because he has connections and friendships to plenty of industry people.

Eg. when he says SSM external development is "all gone", it's likely true reflective of how games like Edith Finch, Wattam and Zombie Taxi Company seems to no longer be affliated with SSM. Bound was the only one that remained, and chances are they've re-organised to focus on internal development.

That being said, external development does still happen. But losing SSM ex.dev does have implications because SSM was always the quirkier one in the ex.dev family of funding.

Anyway, enough of that. This is my prediction for Sony's remainder calendar year that I recall some of you said/guessed, either here or somewhere else:

I want the Dreams beta NOW! They went from regular updates to completely disappearing.
This is my most anticipated game, I could write a book using all the ideas I have for Dreams.
Mm NEWS PLS!

 

[FelipeMGM]

It is a fact that SMS has axed its external team quite a bit (prob all of it), I know some that used to work there are now working at Annapurna Interactive (including the SMS external team creative director Nathan Gary who is the head of AI now) and they are the ones handling 'Edith Finch and likely Wattam too

SIE for sure has tone down these kind of investments as a whole, and also shifted a bunch of the money into VR I guess, with funding projects and exclusivity deals

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Just watching an analysis of Mass Effect on YouTube, and I would love so much if Savage Starlight was a real thing and Naughty Dog tried their hand at a sci-fi game. Although there were also rumours that's what Sucker Punch were doing, so that would be awesome too! I just want something with alien planets and cool spaceships and a good narrative. I really like games which dump you on an alien planet with a sense of isolation and loneliness, like Unreal or Halo or Metroid Prime, but if they wanted to go more narratively in-depth then something that's a bit more dialogue-heavy and globe-trotting (galaxy trotting?) like Mass Effect would be amazeballs too.

 

[vivekTO]

Discussing from horizon to our future

.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

.

This is amazing

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Given the Decima engine in Horizon and the fact Kojima and Guerrilla will have about 2.5 years to further develop the tech, Death Stranding is going to blow fucking socks off. It probably won't be as broad in scale as Horizon, so I can see this engine applied to a smaller environment being just ridiculous.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Given the Decima engine in Horizon and the fact Kojima and Guerrilla will have about 2.5 years to further develop the tech, Death Stranding is going to blow fucking socks off. It probably won't be as broad in scale as Horizon, so I can see this engine applied to a smaller environment being just ridiculous.

Death stranding is open world

 

[clarkision]

Just watching an analysis of Mass Effect on YouTube, and I would love so much if Savage Starlight was a real thing and Naughty Dog tried their hand at a sci-fi game. Although there were also rumours that's what Sucker Punch were doing, so that would be awesome too! I just want something with alien planets and cool spaceships and a good narrative. I really like games which dump you on an alien planet with a sense of isolation and loneliness, like Unreal or Halo or Metroid Prime, but if they wanted to go more narratively in-depth then something that's a bit more dialogue-heavy and globe-trotting (galaxy trotting?) like Mass Effect would be amazeballs too.

Where are the rumors that Sucker Punch is working on a sci-fi game?

 

[vivekTO]

Given the Decima engine in Horizon and the fact Kojima and Guerrilla will have about 2.5 years to further develop the tech, Death Stranding is going to blow fucking socks off. It probably won't be as broad in scale as Horizon, so I can see this engine applied to a smaller environment being just ridiculous.

I just want some Mecha designs by mr. Yoji in Decima Engine!!!

 

[Icolin]

Just watching an analysis of Mass Effect on YouTube, and I would love so much if Savage Starlight was a real thing and Naughty Dog tried their hand at a sci-fi game. Although there were also rumours that's what Sucker Punch were doing, so that would be awesome too! I just want something with alien planets and cool spaceships and a good narrative. I really like games which dump you on an alien planet with a sense of isolation and loneliness, like Unreal or Halo or Metroid Prime, but if they wanted to go more narratively in-depth then something that's a bit more dialogue-heavy and globe-trotting (galaxy trotting?) like Mass Effect would be amazeballs too.

The Sucker Punch game sounds more like the Ex Machina or Blade Runner side of sci-fi, whereas Savage Starlight would be a space opera, ala Mass Effect or Star Wars.

 

[SamNW]

The Sucker Punch game sounds more like the Ex Machina or Blade Runner side of sci-fi, whereas Savage Starlight would be a space opera, ala Mass Effect or Star Wars.

We don't have nearly enough information about Sucker Punch's game or Naughty Dog's hypothetical game to make conclusions like this.

 

[Dabi]

So when Kojima eventually does go multiplatform with future titles does he take the modified Decima engine with him or does he restart from scratch?

 

[Icolin]

We don't have nearly enough information about Sucker Punch's game or Naughty Dog's hypothetical game to make conclusions like this.

True, but I'd think that if ND and SP were both doing sci fi games, those would be the two options.

Also, I'm desperate for cyberpunk games. Detroit Become Human and Cyberpunk 2077 are cool, but I want more.