That is what is expected, but we never know. Maybe he goes back and realize he doesn't want to do that anymore.
Sony Playstation: First Party Studios & their Current Projects
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That is what is expected, but we never know. Maybe he goes back and realize he doesn't want to do that anymore.
LiquidSolid
Member
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, though I'm pretty sure Shu and Rohde (as head of WWS America) are the ones who'd greenlight any of their projects. I believe Layden's said his role is more focused on the business/marketing side of WWS than actual game development.
They've gotta develop Dawn of the Wolf Part 1 first
So I was listening to a kotaku split screen podcast back from e3 where Jason schreier interviewed ted price from insomniac games and heard something interesting. I know general consensus was that Spider-Man game being exclusive had probably something to do with Sony owning picture rights and stuff but ted said that a Sony executive first reached out to him regarding working on a marvel game and then they were given a choice to work on any marvel property and they chose Spider-Man so maybe the movie side of sony had nothing to do with this? And if Sony reached out then maybe they have the opportunity to fund more marvel games considering they are one of the few big publishers interested in making huge story based games with a AAA budget. I personally think there will be more marvel games with Sony involvement besides Spider-Man.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Sony needs to go on a hiring spree and start creating satellite studios for their bigger studios like Naughty Dog, Guerrilla Games and Santa Monica. Put those PS4 and PS+ profits to good use.
The fact that all of Naughty Dog is basically forced to make TLOU 2 is disappointing. They should have two teams. Maybe three. Let Neil make TLOU2. Give him a team of hundred people. Give Bruce a team to make Starlight Savage. And have the Lost Legacy guys make a full Uncharted game.
The problem is that they have so many talented people at these studios working on someone else's baby instead of creating their own game. GG went through like 20 ideas before they decided to do Horizon. And now they will be doing Horizon for the next 6 years. Imagine how shitty those other 20 guys feel. Being forced to make a game that was picked over theirs.
Ultimately, video game publishers will have to shift to a similar production management system as movie production. You have your directors who pitch ideas and then are given a crew by the studio to execute that idea. Right now these studios are basically run like software companies where everyone gets a say and at the same time no one but a few people really get to make what they want. Sony needs an army of programmers, level designers and artists all working for 5-10 directors in each studio... all of whom are simultaneously create new IPs and sequels for those IPs.
otherwise they will just get old waiting for their turn or move to a different studio in search for a better opportunity.
This is very interesting, though i hate to break it to you but Crystal Dynamics and the Deus Ex Devs are making multiple marvel games including an avengers game.
The fact that all of Naughty Dog is basically forced to make TLOU 2 is disappointing. They should have two teams. Maybe three. Let Neil make TLOU2. Give him a team of hundred people. Give Bruce a team to make Starlight Savage. And have the Lost Legacy guys make a full Uncharted game.
The problem is that they have so many talented people at these studios working on someone else's baby instead of creating their own game. GG went through like 20 ideas before they decided to do Horizon. And now they will be doing Horizon for the next 6 years. Imagine how shitty those other 20 guys feel. Being forced to make a game that was picked over theirs.
Ultimately, video game publishers will have to shift to a similar production management system as movie production. You have your directors who pitch ideas and then are given a crew by the studio to execute that idea. Right now these studios are basically run like software companies where everyone gets a say and at the same time no one but a few people really get to make what they want. Sony needs an army of programmers, level designers and artists all working for 5-10 directors in each studio... all of whom are simultaneously create new IPs and sequels for those IPs.
otherwise they will just get old waiting for their turn or move to a different studio in search for a better opportunity.
This is very interesting, though i hate to break it to you but Crystal Dynamics and the Deus Ex Devs are making multiple marvel games including an avengers game.
phantasmic_glaive
Member
That actually makes sense. Everyone's doing it. Putting their own spin onto Marvel assemblies, e.g. Avengers, the defenders, etc. if that's what you even mean. A video game Sony/ Marvel group of connected games could work. Very interesting.
Next up is Blade!
tiebreaker
Member
That's sooner than expected.
I feel like this one can be a sleeper hit like Until Dawn was in 2015.
phantasmic_glaive
Member
Sony doesn't "force" ND to do jack shit, lol. That's one of the most revered studios in the universe.
The fans are the ones that absolutely demanded another Tlou when they bought 10 million copies of the first one. That's just how it goes.. and spreading them thin doesn't to accommodate several teams won't help them in the slightest. All that needs to happen is to let them do them.
...and the Avengers aren't the only Marvel Properties out there. Spider-Man comes with a laundry list of other heroes and Villains, including the Avengers. It can be done.
Edit: I just seen you said all of ND. Sorry bout that.
LiquidSolid
Member
Unless you only want to play FMV games from now on, animated movies (and the studios that make them) would be a far better comparison to make. But even then, it's a really flawed comparison because they're two completely different mediums.
While I disagree with most of what you say and think the actual game design/creation should be created by studios, not just a thrown together team, I do think bringing "outsiders" into the creative/story side is a very healthy idea. Shaun Escayg, for example, came from outside the games industry. As did the Until Dawn writers. And TLOU2 is being co-written be Halley Gross.
I dont think things are that simple.
You cant just hire 300 people, gives 100 to "Neil's team", 100 to "Bruce's team" and 100 to "the UC The Lost Legacy directors" and expect the quality to be the same as before.
These guys they have in the studio all have their specific skills and many of them are the best in the business in their respective areas. That is what makes their games so good. They have the most talented people in the industry all together making these games happens. When you start adding people to the team and ends up with 1000+ people studios like Ubisoft, everything starts to be more industrialized and the magic is lost.
Nightengale
Member
If anything, the repeated lessons of this industry is that trying to do the whole "split up studio to individually work on two different projects separately" has resulted in more failures than success.
How many times have we heard of devs pursuing two-projects/team approach, only for all of them to be 'all-hands-on-deck' for the more mature project in the final stretch?
Furthermore, quality of work potentially suffers when you split out teams too discretely. I mean, take Uncharted 3/TLOU or Horizon/Killzone SF as examples where previous leads on projects were split up into two different games, and even though it's not wholly separate, it's debatable that any one of those projects benefited/suffered from having the better fit of a talent to drive the project at any point in time.
How many times have we heard of devs pursuing two-projects/team approach, only for all of them to be 'all-hands-on-deck' for the more mature project in the final stretch?
Furthermore, quality of work potentially suffers when you split out teams too discretely. I mean, take Uncharted 3/TLOU or Horizon/Killzone SF as examples where previous leads on projects were split up into two different games, and even though it's not wholly separate, it's debatable that any one of those projects benefited/suffered from having the better fit of a talent to drive the project at any point in time.
I dont think things are that simple lol. Sony actually tried that 2 team structure with a few of their studios and have backed away from it. Nd started uncharted 3 and last of us at the same time. Horizon and killzone shadowfall started around the same time. God of war ascension and that cancelled stig project were worked on at the same time. I believe Nd came out and said it didn't work out that well and they are mostly one game studio with a second one in pre production.
With regards to the square marvel games, they sound like coop multiplayer games considering the two rumored games so far are avengers and guardians of the galaxy.so i think sony still can fund sp story driven solo games with marvel characters if they have a deal with marvel.
Yeah, splitting studios to work multiple AAA projects at a time is difficult and doesn't have a great track record unless you're a mega-studio with thousands of devs like Ubisoft Montreal or if the separate project is small and focused like Tearaway at Media Molecule. The closest you're going to get at more traditional studios is having a small group of creative leads breaking off to do some pre-production while everyone else works on the current major project (Guerrilla did this).
Also, just hiring hundreds of devs is much MUCH easier said than done.
Also, just hiring hundreds of devs is much MUCH easier said than done.
SolidSnakex
Member
ND have said that they simply couldn't recruit the talent in order to fully staff two full teams. Evan talks about it with GI here
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featu...arteds-future-and-the-last-of-us-part-ii.aspx
They've moved to having a team that's in production and a pre-production team. That way when one ends the other can begin. I think the talent is something you have to keep in mind. It's not necessarily going to be easy to staff enough people to make two games that are of the quality expected from ND. Just look at TLL. ND pulled that off in just a year. How many studios could do the same if you even gave them several years to do it? It's super polished and has impeccable pacing.
Just checked the US Store and it says the same. They haven't officially confirmed a date, but this might be the one
Also, Knowledge is Power (another PlayLink game) is also listed for that date, Singstar should be that too then
Slangblade
Member
Why is it disappointing ND is making a sequel to one of the best games of all time? I don't understand that at all.
The guy basically did back to back game. Even if he loves the job, that's a bit too much.
There is so much wrong with this post that I shouldn't have to replied. Shuhei and his team ''didn't force'' Neil to make TLOU2. If Sony was to dictate ND's porfolio, we would have seen more UC games instead. And really? 3 teams? Do you know how crazy that sounds? It takes up a lot of resources and that the quality of the product might not up to what ND sets out to make. Besides, ND did tried to form 2 teams, and how did that work out?
Urgh, double post.
Triggerhappytel
Member
I don't personally see there being more Sony/Marvel games, as they already have the crown jewel singular superhero in Spider-Man, the Avengers & GotG are spoken for and I honestly doubt they're going to put considerable energy into someone else's IP unless they can benefit from it (i.e. if the Spider-Man games are good then the films could see a boost and vice versa). Unless I could be wrong, Spidey is a smash hit (of course it will be) and they go for other licenses from Marvel. Maybe Iron Man or Cap (if not prohibited by Squeenix' Avengers license), or maybe they'd go for something a bit less mainstream like Blade or Daredevil.
I don't think you understand how modern game development works. I sincerely doubt a game like The Lost Legacy would be possible with a team of 100 staff with its incredible quality of visuals, detail and animation, unless you want them to spend 4-5 years developing it. I think the reality of most modern AAA games (especially those with lots of story and cinematics) is that you need very large teams of typically 200+ on development. Bethesda is probably the only dev who sidesteps this, with I think BGS being a little over 100 staff (or at least they were while developing Skyrim & Fallout 4) and I believe Dishonored was developed by something like 80 staff, but I don't know about the sequel as Arkane Austin appear to have grown a lot since then. Also, I sincerely doubt Naughty Dog were "forced" to make anything, considering - as Elfstruck points out above - after developing Uncharted 2 which was one of their most popular and acclaimed games ever Sony allowed some of the top creatives to break off and make a completely new IP as opposed to doubling-down on more Uncharted.
Nightengale
Member
The credits of TLL speaks for itself.
In a studio of >250 people; only 30-ish people were credited as "sup, we didn't do any work on TLL at all!"
In a studio of >250 people; only 30-ish people were credited as "sup, we didn't do any work on TLL at all!"
Pretty sure Marvel said they don't want anymore exclusives (excluding Spider-Man)
edit: nevermind, I was wrong. It seems Marvel doesn't want to do exclusive long term deals anymore like they did with Activision
If Marvel has another idea for a big budget single player game (since I expect something like Avengers to be multiplayer focused), maybe Sony could get that too
Naughty Dog said multiple times, that they are a 1-team studio, with 1 game in full production and 1 in pre production since the PS4 launched.
Basicly they had
The rough shedulde of
2009-2011 The Last of Us - Pre production
2011-2013 Uncharted 4 - Pre production
2013-2014 Left Behnd & TLOU Remastered - Pre production
2015 Uncharted 4 reshuffleing after Amy Henning left
2016 Uncharted TLL - Pre production
2016-2017 The Last of Us part 2- Pre production
2009-2011 Uncharted 3 - Full Production
2011-2013 The Last of Us - Full Production
2013-2014 Left Behnd & TLOU Remastered - Full Production
2014-2016 Uncharted 4 - Full production
2016-2017 Uncharted TLL - Full production
2017-2019? The Last of Us part 2- Full production
They just starting the pre production on one new game, which will come out on PS5 probably, so we won't here about it until 2019 PS5 reveal.
Until then we will have Naughty Dog as
2017 Playstation Experience - The Last of Us part 2 1st Gameplay
2018 E3 - The Last of Us part 2 2nd trailer and release date (2019 May)
2018 Playstation Experience - The Last of Us part 2 2nd Gameplay
Basicly they had
The rough shedulde of
2009-2011 The Last of Us - Pre production
2011-2013 Uncharted 4 - Pre production
2013-2014 Left Behnd & TLOU Remastered - Pre production
2015 Uncharted 4 reshuffleing after Amy Henning left
2016 Uncharted TLL - Pre production
2016-2017 The Last of Us part 2- Pre production
2009-2011 Uncharted 3 - Full Production
2011-2013 The Last of Us - Full Production
2013-2014 Left Behnd & TLOU Remastered - Full Production
2014-2016 Uncharted 4 - Full production
2016-2017 Uncharted TLL - Full production
2017-2019? The Last of Us part 2- Full production
They just starting the pre production on one new game, which will come out on PS5 probably, so we won't here about it until 2019 PS5 reveal.
Until then we will have Naughty Dog as
2017 Playstation Experience - The Last of Us part 2 1st Gameplay
2018 E3 - The Last of Us part 2 2nd trailer and release date (2019 May)
2018 Playstation Experience - The Last of Us part 2 2nd Gameplay
it seems like Sony London Studio is working on another VR title https://twitter.com/LondonStudioHQ/status/903213680128614400
for example:
for example:
That is known. Previous director at Lionhead joined London Studio a couple months ago to work on VR too.
Yes, because having spent years reducing their fixed-cost outgoings across the company, the sensible thing would absolutely be to throw money at reversing those changes and adding a bunch of new fixed-outgoing costs.
On team a/b...ND AFAIK use a variation on Agile as a PM process, which means that the orderly dreams of Gaffers where there are two neatly delineated teams die. As was seen on TLL they have the capacity to run two teams, but have a flexible PM structure that means individuals, teams & groups can be reassigned job packages & switch workflows as required.
Yeah, they just closed Guerrilla Cambridge and Evolution. It seems like Santa Monica also doesn't have that external dev arm they used to have.
I don't think they would go about creating satellite studios since they just did exactly the opposite.
Best thing we can hope is some of the VR initiatives to move to regular games once the big VR investment is over.
I don't think they would go about creating satellite studios since they just did exactly the opposite.
Best thing we can hope is some of the VR initiatives to move to regular games once the big VR investment is over.
yep, they dont.
Thank god Annapurna Interactive is their ''spiritual successor'' and they are delivering mightly so far
Sangetsu-II
Member
Yes if I remember correctly Sony has 7 studios working on PSVR projects:
London Studio (Hiring Form)
Manchester Studio (Hiring Form)
Japan Studio (No More Heroes Allowed VR, etc)
Santa Monica Studio (Hiring Form)
Media Molecule (Dreams)
Polyphony Digital (GT Sport)
SuperMassive Games (Bravo Team, The Inpatient)
PSVR investment is real.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
They already outsource asset creation to other studios.
There are links above that mention how they failed to hire talent and i am calling bullshit on that. everyone in the industry wants to work at ND. And to say that no one is talented enough to work there is ridiculous. I recently played AC Unity and it's a gorgeous game even at 900p. ND's artists might be better but not by much. Anthem, Horizon, AC Origins, and other AAA games look just as good if not better. The level designers working at ND arent the best in the business. we have all played their walking simulator levels and their poor puzzles. The Lost Legacy was the first game where puzzles were up to industry standards.
ND however is the best at writing, custscene direction and setpieces. But at the same We know Neil isnt the only great writer there. We know Bruce isnt the only great gameplay director there because the Lost Legacy guys for my money created a far better overall game. ND has enough talent to start promoting from within and take a chance hiring new folks from around the industry. they can learn a thing or two from Bioware, Bethesda, Guerrilla Games and even Ubisoft devs.
I know all these new age software companies love the agile approach and want to preserve that studio culture, but the reality is talented ambitious people want to create their own new IPs. The last time Sony feared losing their best talent to sequelitus, they gave Neil and Bruce their own team and said go do whatever. They need to go back to that because i can promise you that since 2009, ND has a bunch of really talented people itching to make their own TLOU, their own big franchise. Not just Neil's TLOU.
Of course they are not that simple. If they were, Sony would've done that already. What I am saying is that ideally I would like Sony to expand their successful studios and work towards that instead of closing themselves off, making fewer games, releasing fewer IPs and risk losing talent to other studios.
No, you misunderstand me. Neil is making TLOU because he chose to make it. Sony didnt force ND to make anything. Individuals working at ND however will now be forced to work on TLOU since it's now a one game studio. The talented directors behind The Lost Legacy will now be forced to work on TLOU instead of The Lost Legacy 2 or Starlight Savage or whatever else they wanted to direct themselves. Imagine if Steven Spielberg was told to go work under someone else after making Jaws. Imagine if Neil was told to go work under Amy Henning and write dialogue to help her finish the game. I think we all know how that worked out.
As for what happened when they last switched to a two person team.... well we got TLOU. Probably the greatest game of last gen.
Santa Monica is going to be an interesting dev to watch over the coming years. The start of the generation wasn't great for them with Stig's game getting cancelled and the winding down of their ex-dev arm but business seems to have picked up in a big way. Not only do they have their massive God of War reboot coming soon we also know they're looking into both VR and multiplayer thanks to job listings. Heck, visiting their job page and there's always a dozen or two positions open at any given time.
I'd love to see them become the western equivalent of Studio Japan where they can develop multiple, completely different different games at the same time at a stellar clip.
I'd love to see them become the western equivalent of Studio Japan where they can develop multiple, completely different different games at the same time at a stellar clip.
LifeBrandRobot
Member
Hopefully it ends well with them. I get nervous whenever a first party studio is tasked to make an exclusive thats not for the PS4. Never seems to end happy for the studio.
SolidSnakex
Member
I don't know why, but I started binging on TLoUPII reactions and TLoU/LB Let's Plays last night. It's probably still too early for gameplay, but I do hope we get something new at PSX. A new cutscene trailer would be fine by me.
Imo they were the western equivalent of Japan Studio before shutting down external dev.
I think now they will be more like ND.
Nothing wrong with that either!
I know ND is often viewed as the crown-jewel of Sony's studios, a title they earned last generation, but personally I genuinely think Santa Monica is just as good. I'm glad to see getting out of their rough period.
I agree, they do seem to be going more for a ND like working structure. And that's fine, seeing as it has allowed ND to be very good and very focused at what they do.
Sony still has XDEV anyway, so there is no point in having multiple dev arms. Hopefully people moved from Santa Monica's to XDEV and didn't loose jobs.
DriftingSpirit
Member
God of War should provide a huge foundation for them after what happened with their cancelled game. I'd like it if they would become the western equivalent of Studio Japan as well. I do think they will focus on getting another God of War out primarily though. They'll do a new IP after the second God of War.
XDEV is in Europe.
Anapurna is where some of those working at the external arm in Santa Monica went.
I think Sony deals with external developers in the US at their own HQ now, idk.
JuanLatino
Member
we'll have to wait and see, because that was my original question.
What happens with Margenau & Escayg if Straley is indeed the director of the next Game
Sangetsu-II
Member
DriveClub?
Are you only basing this off one studio ,Guerrilla Cambridge Studio? We don't even know if it was close down because of RIGS (It sold well) or WWS restructuring (Sony wanted more funds).
How the new God of War ends will probably tell us exactly where Santa Monica is going next. if it's set up blatantly for a sequel, they'll probably dive right in. If it has some decent closure, I wouldn't be surprised to see them work on something else next. I'd imagine another one is inevitable but Sony still let them spend years working on something else once. Assuming God of War is a hit (which it almost certainly will be) they might earn an opportunity to try something new (like Naughty Dog with The Last of Us).
It's going to be God of War 5 and I shouldn't get my hopes up
I would be shocked if they show nothing. I mean there was a fair bit of backlash when they chose to focus on TLL at E3, hence Neil's current pinned tweet.
Theslammer
Member
I remember when Santa Monica had that title during the PS2 days. Sony Santa Monica, the GOW sequel, and David Jaffe were blazing hot at the time. Naughty Dog has done a great job continuing their reputation (one I hope Santa Monica also reminds people about when GOW releases). And Guerrilla Games shot up there as a developer I am incredibly interested in.
I really feel Sony's first party output continues to shine in such wonderful ways, whether its their own studios, studios they work closely with (Insomniac and Supermassive and Housemarque), and games they co-develop. I've never been excited for as many Sony games as I am this gen. Even Sony Bend is finally showcasing something extremely promising on consoles, a platform they haven't worked on as much for years since many of their efforts have been on handhelds.
EDIT: In some ways, while Naughty Dog I think is the most popular overall, I feel every generation we've had a Sony studio really step up as far as solidifying their reputation in WWS, with Santa Monica, Naughty Dog and now Guerrilla imo. My hope is Santa Monica shows why they were the hottest studio under Sony's wing a couple gens ago, and I hope Days Gone does for Bend what Horizon did for Guerrilla as far as studio prestige. I'm really rooting for Bend since so much of their game looks promising.
Triggerhappytel
Member
What you're proposing with having 5+ games constantly in development just isn't realistic unless you're talking about mega-studios like Ubisoft Montreal or Blizzard which have 3000-4000 employees at least. That's very likely more development staff than Sony currently have in total across all their studios.
Yeah, most of the studios Sony has closed in the last 5 years have been developers who were anchored to failed hardware. I hope the same fate doesn't befall any of their other studios.
It's a real shame that SSM stepped away from their indie support, especially after the massive success that Journey was. It's obviously a whole priority shift for PlayStation which is a shame because some of their best games last gen were smaller digital titles. XDEV is still putting out some good stuff, but SSM and Japan Studio have largely stopped trying.
I've no interest in VR or multiplayer, but I'd like to see them get the chance to develop something new after God of War ships. They've done nothing but GoW for 12 years now, and it would be sad if they're not allowed another chance to even try because of what happened with Stig's game.
shortsoptional
Member
I will say that when I chose this story, I had chosen it because I already outlined and mapped out stories for multiple games.
http://www.thewolfhall.com/cory-barlog-planned-multiple-story-arcs-go-beyond-god-war-2018/
I think most went there actually. When they started their staff was all ex-SMS people
We haven't really seen Sony do these partnerships with smaller American devs since so IDK who would handle them now.
The closest were their PSVR efforts with Farpoint and Starblood Arena, and those went through SIE San Mateo and San Diego Studio respectively. So my guess it would be either of them, most likely the former
My feeling for awhile has been that Sony doesn't feel the need to fund and incubate those small titles anymore because they're just so prevalent these days and nearly all of them get released on PS4 anyway. Last generation, creative small games were novel and added a unique appeal to the PS3. These days, indie-scale projects are a massive part of the industry as a whole.
They seem to have taken a lot of those resources that once funded a ton of small games and shifted them toward VR and the PlayLink line.
They seem to have taken a lot of those resources that once funded a ton of small games and shifted them toward VR and the PlayLink line.
exactly. And from their financial standpoint, its hard to find a project that might blow up like Journey or Fat Princess did.
Also, devs have a lot of other ways to get funding these days, they dont need to sign a deal with Sony in sake of IP ownership.
Its more likely that in this situation to get a deal, Sony would approach a dev with an idea in mind then the other way around.
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