The Last of Us saw success in the summer, not sure why QB couldn't.
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Sony vs Microsoft: The First Party Studios
- Thread starter KAL2006
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The Last of Us saw success in the summer, not sure why QB couldn't.
BruiserBear
Banned
Sony has always been more daring with summer release dates. I don't see Microsoft going that route. I also think the game is pretty far along based on what we've seen.
We haven't actually seen that much of the game, so I can't really judge how far along it is.
Steverulez
Member
I personally Microsofts holiday (ish) 2015 to go like this
August: Quantum Break
September: Halo 5
October: Forza 6 and Rise of the Tomb Raider
November: Gears of War Collection
This is assuming that GoW collection is coming but... I really do think it is. If Gears of War Collection isn't coming (or not in 2015 anyway) then I suspect they'll have another title for the holidays and maybe Halo will be November instead.
BruiserBear
Banned
True. What they've shown looks so polished and it's been in develoment so long, I just can't imagine they're gonna need more than another 9 months.
A Gears collection would be cool to see next year. Seems doable for Black Tusk next year.
Dragonborn
Member
Fitst party exclusives don't sell consoles but for MS they are a qhole lot more important. It's the only way they can successfully differentiate their console.it may not matter much with PS4, since that will sell regardless, but I'd say it sure as heck matters for the X1 (or at least, moreso than PS4)
And yes, I would rather they take their time, but I was under the impression that it was further along than it is.
I'll be getting one for Scalebound, and will no doubt be picking it up. I'd never heard of it until I saw people on GAF talk about it, and I knew lots of people who played Xbox Live back in the day.
Just can't reason with some people.
Second party is nothing new. Very easy to understand.
Steverulez
Member
I doubt Black Tusk will have any involvement in it besides a basic overseeing of the project, they've obviously been staffing up but I doubt they will be the equivalent 343i for a while, at least not with the development capabilities to do the collection and Gears XB1.
I would think Ruffian would be a good contender to do it, or some of it anyway, just about to wrap up work on Halo 3/4 for MCC and they've constantly been doing contract work for MS (Kinect Sports Rivals, Halo Spartan Assault and other stuff), perhaps they will do some work on it.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Man, this is so off. Replying to it will feel like I'm going in circles because it was discussed a couple pages ago, but whatever. First of all, it didn't cost $30 million to make, it cost over $40 mil, around 45 most likely since it cost more than Heavy Rain. Second of all, the way you just multiplied 1.4 million units sold x $40 couldn't be more inaccurate. You're assuming all 1.4 mil copies sold at 60 bucks, when most likely 500k sold at half the price or less because only 1 mil sold in 3 months, meaning the last 400-500k was almost certainly at a big discount. Your post is hostile (the part I deleted that was for Canis Lupus) and just plain incorrect.
Coral Griffon
Lionhead, Game Director
We haven't said anything about a release date.
I doubt we will see a Gears collection until Q1 2016, as I reckon Microsoft would want Halo 5 to be the main focus and console seller during holiday 2015 with support from Tomb Raider and Forza.
BradleyLove
Member
Final Fantasy VII was first-party then?
3DimensionalAperture
Banned
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/beyond-two-souls-budget-was-27-million-report/1100-6414844/
$40 WHOLESALE. The retailer can sell a game for whatever it wants, but the publisher sells the games to retailers at $40 and then the retailer sells the game to the consumer for $60. The retail price fluctuates based on total sales. After a while, the games are discounted by the retailer due to lack of sales, or the retailer trying to clear its stock. That's got nothing to do with the wholesale price of the game. Publishers might reduce the wholesale price for things like "greatest hits" editions, etc - but since we don't know exactly what that situation is, I made it pretty obvious I was going on rough estimates.
Not to mention that you forget that digital sales are sold at $60 at 100% profit and make up about 30% of all game sales, so that could easily make up for any low-margin discount sales.
What? No they're not.
No, they're not. Demon's Souls is a first party title because it was co-developed by a first party studio that legally owns the IP. It was published by a third party publisher via a licensing deal. Sony gets a royalty for every copy of Demon's Souls sold even though it didn't publish the game here... because it's a first party title. The definition of "Second party" is hazy and murky semantics, but that doesn't mean there's some hard and fast rule you can just apply to what counts as a first party game. Microsoft published Mass Effect before EA bought Bioware, does that make it a first-turned-third party game? Do you not see how ridiculous that sounds?
Ol No Bones
Banned
Yeah the history of the game is very odd and it almost never saw a release in north America. it only sold 70,000 units. It was Microsoft's fault but also just the fact that online gaming wasn't a huge thing even when it originally released on the Xbox. It has a steep learning curve and it mostly went unnoticed. I had one friend that kept telling me about the game and kept annoying me until I picked it up and I'm glad he did. I would have never heard of it otherwise. The soundtrack was amazing. The game design was completely unique and still is. The graphics superb and the physics way ahead of its time. It was one of the few games using normal mapping at the time and could have been mistaken for a launch 360 game. I bought 7 copies of the game and gave them to friends. The game was about 5 bucks used. They all loved it. It was a very special game. People should keep their eye out for it. If you have a 360 you should pick it up and play the game because it is an excellent campaign but keep in mind that it really gets 10 times better online and those servers are dead. I would still be playing it to this day if those servers weren't dead. People should should keep their eye on that one. Phantom Dust was amazing.
Zeyphersan
Banned
OP just put my Google Docs thing in the OP and save everyone some trouble
Yes, they are. Have you ever seen a legal document? Essentially a first party is any party involved in the contractual agreement, and a third party is anyone who isn't.
When people refer to first and third parties, they refer to the publishing rights, not the IP or product rights. Atlus, or Namco, or Sony depending on region, two of which are third party publishers, one is not. Moreover, I don't see how that changes anything if you were to reintroduce the second party term, it would still be second party in Japan, and third party elsewhere.
Second party is hazy and murky because it's bullshit that does not exist, unlike the other two terms which are in basically every publishing contract these companies produce.
And yes, Mass Effect was first party, until it was third party, and no, that's not ridiculous, it's factually, contractually true.
BradleyLove
Member
Exactly, made up bullshit.
TheGameChanger
Banned
Well he is right though. Mass effect was a first party exclusive until they sold Bioware to EA. And I am glad they did.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
It's an accepted term regardless of whether it's consider a colloquial term. It seems to me this debate has become somewhat pedantic.
TheGameChanger
Banned
Because the Last of Us had a lot of hype around it.
El-Pistolero
Member
How does Killzone have shitty gameplay exactly? I did not find it to be a remarkable game, but it is quite competent at its core. Nothing was broken as far as I could tell...I would dare to say that the story and narrative are more deserving of your criticism than the gameplay is. Also, lol at the order! How about you wait till the game is released before making such a statement, bro?
Dragonborn
Member
I don't like it therefore it's shitty mentality.
Which is the problem.
We have the correct legal terms the publishers use, which put 'second party' games firmly under the first party definition, and we have this second party term in common message board parlance, and they contradict each other. So while you can say it's accepted, it's also contradictory to what is factually accurate, and it just leads to valueless, as you correctly noted, pedantic debate.
Ironically, I'd say Wind Waker and soon to be Halo 3 are in the same boat.
The great shit is coming though, from all of them.
Chobel
Member
QB is targeting September according to Shinobi, so definitely not coming before E3. And maybe it's just me over-analyzing things, but the latest comment from Linohead director right in this page suggests Fable legends is also not coming before E3
BruiserBear
Banned
This is true if you don't like racing games at all, and you pretend the PC version of Titanfall was really important.
His comment didn't tell me anything about their release date, and while I respect Shinobi, I find it hard to believe Microsoft is going to stack next fall that badly.
Tidus_Great
Banned
Sony has a much stronger first party. I like more mature cinematic experiences so Sony is the obvious choice.
Xbox really has no answer to Last of Us, , Uncharted, Beyond two souls, heavy rain, etc....
Xbox really has no answer to Last of Us, , Uncharted, Beyond two souls, heavy rain, etc....
Steverulez
Member
Thing is, according to ntkrnl, Scalebound and Crackdown were due for early 2016... so that would make Gears Collection, Scalebound and Crackdown due in the same timeframe.
I don't really see them stacking it that much, plus as I expect Gears 4 or whatever its called to be a holiday 2016 title I think the collection in 2015 is a good way to get Gears fan on-board with Xbox One...
I wouldn't be surprised if Scalebound was 2015 though, MS and Platinum seem to be meeting a lot judging from all the twitter activity
IAmRandom31
Banned
Usually Sony systems are devoid of first party games so this first year on the Ps4 has been pretty damn extraordinary. Killzone was epic until chapter 11 and has some of the best MP of any game I've played so far. Infamous was fun as hell just short. Knack was very enjoyable on hard but the target audience for it was not mainstream gamers. So those gamers got it and thought it was too simple, yet that was the point.
MLB the show is the best baseball game series ever. TLOU Remastered was glorious. DriveClub is getting far more really good impressions from gamers and reviewed well enough for its type. Hohokum was incredibly relaxing and enjoyable.
And it's just year one so I'm incredibly impressed so far. Yeah ou don't have that world beating 95 metacritic game just yet but those will come. Bloodborne hits soon
MLB the show is the best baseball game series ever. TLOU Remastered was glorious. DriveClub is getting far more really good impressions from gamers and reviewed well enough for its type. Hohokum was incredibly relaxing and enjoyable.
And it's just year one so I'm incredibly impressed so far. Yeah ou don't have that world beating 95 metacritic game just yet but those will come. Bloodborne hits soon
I feel the same, it looks MS is helping a lot with development.
TheGameChanger
Banned
You seem to like the games because they were published by Sony more than anything. I was disappointed by Sony's output so far. The Last of Us remastered was the only game I enjoyed of all the ones you listed.
Well he got his timing wrong on a lot of things (he said QB would be 2014, and I think he got the titanfall map pack timing wrong, though they were pretty close so I guess he could be given that) so I don't trust his exact timing on his leaks and I think they should be taken with a grain of salt.
I can see Crackdown being moved to sept-oct 2016, especially since it's using the cloud heavily I can see MS putting it in the oven to cook for a few more month and make sure it showcases what the cloud can do.
You could be right about scalebound being moved to 2015 though
Chobel
Member
He just made one today
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Sometimes things don't go according to the plan, so it may not be MS intention to release their games like this, more like they had to.
BruiserBear
Banned
That first line you quoted was in reference to the Fable Legends producer comment.
Regarding Microsoft, they seem to manage their portfolio quite well. You'll notice they rarely have delays. So that's the reason for me belief they're not gonna have 4 major games in their fall schedule.
thewhitehawk
Member
I find this to be a very stupid debate. But to put things as briefly and succinctly as I can:
Sony messed up with all of their console launches in terms of software. Microsoft had a much better launch lineup, and provided more high quality content than Sony did, but they messed up in almost everything else.
But from a broader perspective, I feel that Microsoft is a company that is more likely to "blow their load" early in terms of exclusives to try to get an advantage, and Sony is a company that is more likely to provide a steady stream of quality content, specially towards the later years of their platform's lifecycle.
When Microsoft has a problem, they throw money at the problem. They try to solve their issues by either burning money or money-bagging "exclusives", or what little that word means to them. When Sony or Nintendo have problems, they produce quality content. The issue is not content as much as it is how they manage their studios and how they try to shape the industry into a greedier, anti-consumer, DLC-ridden, premium currency model. They just need to put their talent to better use instead of buying Minecrafts.
Sony messed up with all of their console launches in terms of software. Microsoft had a much better launch lineup, and provided more high quality content than Sony did, but they messed up in almost everything else.
But from a broader perspective, I feel that Microsoft is a company that is more likely to "blow their load" early in terms of exclusives to try to get an advantage, and Sony is a company that is more likely to provide a steady stream of quality content, specially towards the later years of their platform's lifecycle.
When Microsoft has a problem, they throw money at the problem. They try to solve their issues by either burning money or money-bagging "exclusives", or what little that word means to them. When Sony or Nintendo have problems, they produce quality content. The issue is not content as much as it is how they manage their studios and how they try to shape the industry into a greedier, anti-consumer, DLC-ridden, premium currency model. They just need to put their talent to better use instead of buying Minecrafts.
Or that it was published by EA...
And liking racing games doesn't mean I think they're better than Halo 3.
i thought the poster was referring to Fable
Chobel
Member
Oh I see. It was just hunch, Coral Griffon could have said nothing about Fable legends being released in H1 2015, and yet he wrote a comment to say that Fable Legends still doesn't have a release date. I felt like he doesn't think it will be released in H1 2015.
Again it could be me over-analyzing things, but this is the way I see it.
We don't know what happened with QB, last time we heard from ntkrnl it was going to be released in 2014, so something must have happened that made the game targeting September 2015 now. Also you forgot that MS canceled Black Tusk game, so yeah Even MS can have setbacks.
He did, but I saw "Shinobi" and I thought he meant Shinobi, my bad.
TheUnsunghero26
Member
The article is talking about developers, not games. There's this line under the second party part:
Also it's Wikipedia.
Black Mantis
Member
Bioware were never owned by MS, they were independent.
You really think Scalebound is coming next year? I highly doubt it
I can see a Feb, or March 2016 release.
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