Zelda-Bitch
Member
Nerevar said:
Thanks for setting me straight Nerevar!! Woo! I almost went overboard.
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Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Sony: Xbox 360 = Xbox version 1.5 (Ouch)
- Thread starter Oogami
- Start date
Thanks for setting me straight Nerevar!! Woo! I almost went overboard.
Sony's machine will play high-def movies. It will be made for HD from the beginning. The 360 will support HD, but that is something else entirely. How many of the games will support HD is the real question.
Not enough developers supported the progressive modes on the XBox or any other consoles this generation. With the Sony machine, at least the entire focus will be on HD. As someone with multiple HD televisions, I am excited about this.
Not enough developers supported the progressive modes on the XBox or any other consoles this generation. With the Sony machine, at least the entire focus will be on HD. As someone with multiple HD televisions, I am excited about this.
monchi-kun
Member
it's a sad day when marketing gets to mold the minds of the masses
have we not learned from Blast Processing and Emotion Engine?
have we not learned from Blast Processing and Emotion Engine?
DCharlie said:
Uh, you're likely missing alot, but, specificially, now is the information avaliable on Cell general? There have been Cell-platforms in 3rd party hands since 2004. My comments all stand and are valid.
You're a douche. I could expand upon this and your mentality of because you don't know WTF is going on, everyone is in an analogous position, but it would be in vein. Ohh, and how is anything I stated similar to talk of SEGAs "Blast Processing."
Open Source
Banned
A quantum leap is a microscopic increase in the energy level of a tiny particle.
I will wait until I have enough information to judge which system is better. I expect that to be months from now.
I will wait until I have enough information to judge which system is better. I expect that to be months from now.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Who has that quote where Nintendo says they don't consider Microsoft as a rival and they are ignoring them and timing the release of Rev to compete with PS3?
I think that was awhile ago, and really I consider it the first "blow" and should not be left out of corporate diss threads.
I think that was awhile ago, and really I consider it the first "blow" and should not be left out of corporate diss threads.
Vince said:
Oh look! It's vince! The reject PS2 fanbot from Beyond3D! Hi!
First off, it wasn't pseudo-logical, it's common sense. To better understand this very complex term I suggest visiting the following page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_sense
It will give you a lot of insight and hopefully you will benefit from it. Soon.
Second off... Graphics DO matter. Even though games are the main selling point, graphics do play a role, as well as control, and asthetics. Though do me a favour and ask yourself what handheld was out when GBA/GBASP was in the spotlight that was marketed as a gaming handheld and had better graphics or even better games?
I'll await your answer.
DopeyFish said:
Aww, how cute! Hey!
Common sense, eh? Like the prevelence of 'folk-physics' (Aristotelian impetus) that people utilize when asked about about "Common Sense" physics tasks, instead of Newtonian dynamics? Personally, I get to deal with the folk-biology and folk-psychology myself, it's quite interesting how wrong Common Sense is.... But, Hey, it's common sense!
Similarly, your form of common sense is utter horseshit. It's an interesting and intoxicating mixture of stupidity and bias -- that preformance is a function of time and increases linearly (and continuously) over a period as short as 6 months.
How about you respond to my actual points instead of attacking me? Although, I don't mind calling you back on it.
No shit they matter Sherlock. Which is why I [sarcastically] advised:
Code:
[i]Vince: "Seriously, do yourself a favor and make the transition to 'Nobody cares about how the games
actually look or play anyways
' and offer up the GBA as proof."[/i]Now, I await your answer on how preformance is a pure function of time. My vocabulary may not be as big as yours, but try your best in explaining it....
Vince said:
Generally speaking, performance is normally linear across time. However that doesn't mean there can't be spikes a long the way... I'm speaking more generalised.
Using scalable cpus such as CELL can and will break the speed... but then again at any time could someone make a machine that is more powerful than anything down the road for 10 years. But you are forgetting one very very important factor: money. Then you must note things like bandwidth requirement vs bandwidth supply. Lots of factors you have to take into account... you can make one part super super super fast but if the rest of your system can't keep up it's a waste.
Most extra processing power the PS3 has will most likely (not stating as law just as a likely scenario!) will be behind the scenes. More objects being handled in the physics engine and what not.
But whatever. I'll refrain from stating that the Xbox360 should be quite close to PS3 in terms of power and visuals almost exactly the same from now on. I wouldn't want to see a sony fanboy lose his cool over a hypothesis of mine.
DopeyFish said:
No it's not. Gotta love it when your premise is fallicious, does wonders for the argument. Since you seem to like Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_growth said:
What? Please tell me you're like 15 years old and restore my faith in the school system. Money is a function of area, just as preformance is. At the end of the day, as I stated, it comes down to being bounded (abstractly) by die area and logic density (lithography), which - as I stated several times - doesn't increase linearly. It's a step-wise increase that leads to exponentially bounded growth over the "abstract long-term".
Since lithography is constant, you need to perturb the abstraction and what you see is that the facts all boil down to preformance per area per application. And in this case ISSCC-Cell and the BPA absolutly destroy the X360 MPU. It just does, if you don't believe me wait and see.
And concerning bandwith, it's somewhat lesser that it once was. Look at current GPUs for example. As Faf just mentioned that he'll reach nirvana when using MRMs, it just shows how far we've come towards using data represenations that are computationally expensive and will bound preformance before bandwith. Bandwith isn't king like it once was, more time is spent on computation than on memory access and it will continue to trend further away with longer shaders and more expensive compression, represenation, AI, Physics, etc.
It's very simple, don't post things which are based on logic attainable by Terri Shiavo and we won't have a problem. if you present a reasonable argument for why they will be close, say, based off a perceptual bound on display devices, or that you get diminishing returns wrt computation... whatever, I'll agree with you. But when you post something as dumb and below you as stating that there will be a "minimal" difference because it's only "6 months' between them, that's retarded.
shpankey
not an idiot
I love how Sony's PR told all their fanboys how to address and attack the next Xbox (call it Xbox 1.5) and, like good sheep, they towed the line.... without seeing a single game, without its official anything announced, without even for sure knowing anything about it, they are convinced it's Xbox 1.5 just because Sony told them so. :lol
It's almost like a fucking cult. You have your branch dividian leader Sony PR brainwashing them, and they just follow, no questions asked. No reality needed.
Scary how easy it is to manipulate people. They almost want to be manipulated and told what to do, say and think.. Good Lord.
It's almost like a fucking cult. You have your branch dividian leader Sony PR brainwashing them, and they just follow, no questions asked. No reality needed.
Scary how easy it is to manipulate people. They almost want to be manipulated and told what to do, say and think.. Good Lord.
shpankey said:
Sony PR? Really? I don't know a single person who works for Sony; IBM yes. And how, for example (if you're referring to me), was I or anyone else here manipulated?
Where did I post any PR lines or arbitrary specs or numbers? So far, in this discussion, I've relied solely on Moore's and Galligher's Laws as well as subsets of Computational theory/trends in graphics and comp-intensive coding.
Ever think maybe it's just the *shock* better and more thoughtout position? Nah, just call them fanboys for believing in a position based on grounded reasons and questioning people who post BS. Good times dude.
Wow. Talk about an uninformed post. 95% or so of all Xbox games support progressive scan. It was a requirement to be certified and only a few games managed to step around it. And yes, all X360 games will have to support widescreen 720p to be certified (and of course 480i, 480p, widescreen or not)trmas said:
http://www.hdtvarcade.com/xboxlist.htm
When you have have full screen framebuffer in your system at all time, there is no reason why you would not support progressive scan since it's basically "free".
shpankey
not an idiot
No I mean Sony's PR. Read the fucking first post of the thread. Then look around on the forum... tons of kids are now calling it Xbox 1.5 in an insulting way, and not tongue in cheek. I've seen two posters already convinced it's just a small improvement over the current Xbox. Despite not actually knowing shit about it. All because of the Sony PR person calling it Xbox 1.5.Vince said:
What fucking position? You can't have a "well thought out position" on unreleased, unannounced hardware (specs wise I mean). Anything you "thought out" so well was only in your imagination. But your post carries out my point even further. In how their fanboys take their PR as the gospel.Vince said:
Vince said:
Give me a single example where a non-scalable processor performed way ahead of the performance arc yet still maintained equal position in both cost and heat. Remember, we're not talking minimal here. You keep thinking in terms of a hypothetical perfect world where everything is free and there is no constraints. However, this is not a perfect world.
DopeyFish said:
I don't know what a "non-scalable processor" is, as any processor is scalable in terms of SMP, but I'll go with the NEC SX-x series, IBM's Blue-Gene/L IC in terms of heat/area/preformance off the top of my head. I could look for more non-x86 ICs that are designed for a set-piece task if you want, but...
Again, your argument is fundimenatlly flawed (function of time, scales linearly) and you've been shown wrong on several occasions.
Vince said:
I'm not talking about cpu clusters. I'm talking about single processor units. I never denied that you could far exceed the peak performance of the time period. (which is what i meant about scalable processors/clusters) By taking down processors down to their most basic levels, with constraints... you see a far more linear path of performance.
This is where I was getting at. If you're aiming for specific targets which have been equal targets before, you will end up on the same arc performance wise.
This is where I gathered my hypothesis that PS3 and Xbox 360 will be relatively equal (give or take) because they're aiming for generally equal targets. Which should in theory give almost equally as attainable results (given the time discrepancy between the two).
In closing I will say I have never seen a single cpu manufacture outperform the competition by any large margin while working in a closed environment with set restrictions. There have been variances by all means, but the variance hasn't been large enough to call it anything but minimal.
Open Source
Banned
shpankey said:
It's the backwards thinking that's trendy nowdays: take an arbitrary position in near-total ignorance, then go back later and try to justify it.
It's the GAF way.
Crankenstein
Banned
Vince, you are obviously a very intelligent person, but your postings remind me a bit of that Shakespeare quote, "The lady doth protest too much". Please tone it down. I find your caustic tone detracts from your message.
I'll say this, but the PS3 will be sporting something have never been done with a console before and it has zero to do with graphics. In fact, word has it that even Sony's VAIO group have shown some interest in this "something" also. We'll probably have to wait until E3, if not TGS to see this "something" in action with the PS3.
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
Andrew2 said:
mmmkay...................
Hitler Stole My Potato
Banned
Andrew2 said:
Oh Jesus. Now this idiot is doing it too.
Anyone else want to make up some shit?
:lol
It'd make sense if it were built-in next-gen eyetoy - technically never been done in a console before. The vaio group could be interested in it from an interface perspective, maybe (i think i recall Richard Marks - of eyetoy - saying that other groups in Sony were interested in their work, including the Vaio group).
But I guess this is like seeing faces in clouds..
It'd make sense if it were built-in next-gen eyetoy - technically never been done in a console before. The vaio group could be interested in it from an interface perspective, maybe (i think i recall Richard Marks - of eyetoy - saying that other groups in Sony were interested in their work, including the Vaio group).
But I guess this is like seeing faces in clouds..
Hitler Stole My Potato said:
- If you say "/pizza" in the Xbox 360 mic, your card on file is charged and Pizza Hut will be there within the hour.
- An undisclosed source is telling me that PS3 has chips inside it that are pretty powerful.
- Xbox 360 will be online but I can't say more right now...
- Revolution will feature many Nintendo made products. That's all I can say for now sorry. Expect a certain "plumber" though.
- The new "something" in PS3 is it transforms into an iDog. He'll eat food, piss on your floor and even sing a song or two while you continue to play the PS3 due to it's wireless HD connection to the television.
- GTA4 is being worked on. I've said too much. :O
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
And it will grace at least one console.Razoric said:
I am crazy man, crazy!
Hitler Stole My Potato said:
Nvidia granting PS3 backward compatibility with Xbox library.
You will be able to use PSP as wireless controller for media applications.
Cell processor can multiply itself according to the demands of the game, allowing for unlimited power.
PS3 is endowed with vocal recognition for you to give it commands just like a cellphone.
Best of all, PS3 will have a playable version of Super Mario All Stars in memory for you to play anytime.
GhaleonEB:
The DC's comparative fillrate would be 5 gigapixels per second to the PS2's 2.4 gigapixels untextured/1.2 gigapixels textured there... shades of the deck of cards demo.
Overdraw has reached as high as 50 in-game on PS2, so the PS2 processed 50 times the 3D data the Dreamcast would've had to, ironically, just to render that part.
The DC's comparative fillrate would be 5 gigapixels per second to the PS2's 2.4 gigapixels untextured/1.2 gigapixels textured there... shades of the deck of cards demo.