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South Carolina Police shoot armed black man who was protecting his home
- Thread starter DrForester
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Being that police officers are real human beings instead of battle droids with perfect futuretech targeting systems, no cop can reliably hit a target as small a knee or arm in combat situations where adrenaline is flowing and shoot/don't shoot decisions must be made in the fractions of seconds. A police sniper might have time to shoot a gun out of a suspects hands (although most departments for obvious reasons prefer that the sniper shoots to kill) but for people with handguns that's the province of Hollywood.
The shoulder and arm, or anywhere on the legs waist down seems like a larger target than neck or head. I would assume police officers are trained not to shoot vital organs.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
He is being judged on statistics, is he not?
old manatee
Banned
At this point I wouldn't even call the police in the US if my house was robbed. They are basically just trained to escalate every situation.
Yes, because statistics show that cops are more likely to use deadly force when confronting minorities, especially black men.
That doesn't translate to your blanket statement though. It simply means black males are playing a dangerous game when calling the police for help. This incident being evidence #5633874338.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Then you're not making any sense. You say that's not how statistics work but agree this cop is being judged by statistics. Do you not see the issue here?
No, I simply don't believe all interactions between cops and minorities are influenced by bias. Which is what you said.
I do, however, believe the overwhelming majority are, which is why it's reasonable for said minority to assume to be abused, verbally or physically, should they call the police.
That's what the statistics show and that's why it's valid to judge law enforcement by said stats. Your continued reluctance to do so is either self-imposed ignorance or naivete bordering on the delusional.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
How do you reconcile knowing all interactions aren't influenced by bias but still accept judging individual officers as biased or racist if they interact with minorities?
Do you extend this logic to other areas? Religion? Homophobia? Rape?
In this case a bullet landed in the man's throat in under 2 seconds. Combined with the stats, that's a simple conclusion based in probability and logic to arrive at racial bias. There, reconciled.
I'm saving this post.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
The seriousness of the situation doesn't matter? It was a legit call unlike a kid with a toy gun. His remorse means nothing either? I agree it was quick shooting, is that attributed to his skin color? I can understand if you want to go that route but you still have to ignore every thing else.
You ignored my part about using statistics in other areas.
Yes, the situation was serious and the cop failed to evaluate it properly.
No, as I said his remorse after the fact is meaningless in light of his preceding actions.
Yes, it's reasonable to assume the caller's skin color was a factor.
And I ignored your last part because it's a pathetic deflection attempt with no bearing on the discussion.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Yes. He failed to evaluate it properly. Was his bias part of that failure? We draw that conclusion because the victim is black and statistics say minorities are more likely to be abused.
His remorse does matter as, from past experiences, we can tell the type of officers who do want to murder people will dodge around, get defensive, lie, phone in an apology with character attacks, etc..
It's not a deflection. It's to see if you're consistent with this logic of using statistics to judge people.
Which is irrelevant and to no interest of anyone on here, safe for you, apparently.
I've made my position perfectly clear and have no interest in continuing this conversation.
Tha Robbertster
Member
Are Dutch police officers battle droids? They seem to be able to hit legs just fine.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
It isn't irrelevant since my entire argument is using statistics to judge individuals. You can read back up through this conversation to where I was called out by a mod then switched to identify the posts. It's pretty obvious what I have been discussing so determining how consistent that logic is good information to have.
It appears we disagree on what information is needed to identify if a police officer is more likely to abuse his authority when interacting with minorities.
Well congrats Subpar, you were able to turn this thread into another one of your "Are we really sure racism is a factor?" arguments.
Can't wait to see you in the next thread making the same tired argument!
Oh and let's not forget telling black people that we should meet racists halfway to end racism. That's always a great argument as well.
I don't think people think he was shot because he was black. They didn't turn around and see a black guy and say, "lets shoot him". They aren't saying that the officer must be evil.
People are saying that blacks and hispanics are met with more suspicion. The officers turn around and in a stressful situation shoot more often or quicker because they rush to judgment because in their minds, this person is suspicious.
It's similar to how if a you here of a domestic dispute, you usually assume the male is the aggressor or when you watch a movie and see someone that wears light colors and someone that wears dark colors your first assessment is the the guy in lighter colors is the good guy.
It's also not limited to white people. Black people can sometimes be more suspicious of other blacks as well. That doesn't make it better.
whynotboth.png
Racism isn't just "kill all niggers!" It's also the general attitude of fear and suspicion towards a person based solely on the color of his skin. That ingrained fear, small but nigh-omnipresent in society, would, in the aggregate, cause more black people to be shot by mistake/stupidity simply because our gut reaction.
If you're interested, try taking an Implicit Attitude Test. The idea is you're shown images, and have to quickly press either E or I to categorize them. You start with some practice runs of "black faces E, white faces I" or "harmless objects E, weapons I". Then they combine them: "black face or harmless object E, white face or weapon I." Then they swap: "black face or weapon E, white face or harmless object I."
Most people have a significantly easier time associating the black faces with the weapons and the white faces with harmless objects than vice versa (regardless of which order the pairs are given, and which key they're associated with, which are of course randomized).
Subpar Spatula
Banned
I don't deny minorities are met with more suspicion or have a higher chance of being abused. What I'm saying is if this incident justifies demonizing this police officer with comments like these:
What about this situation makes this statement true? True as in implying he is racist.
This incident doesn't exist in a vacuum but I'm sure we can all agree the reality of the call and the remorsefulness of the officer do change the reasoning behind the quick shooting. This doesn't excuse the shooting or the departments lack of transparency. What I'm saying is this isn't an incident of "dehumanizing stares", boy with a fake gun, man with his hands up, man thrown around in a police wagon but that there's enough details in this case that, at the moment, it's doesn't seem appropriate to lump him in with other officers who abuse their power. This doesn't mean this incident won't be part of the aggregate.
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