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Space: The Final Frontier

S

Scrow

Still Tagged Accordingly
It is these spaceships that will allow affordable sub-orbital space tourism for the first time in the history of the universe.
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lol, claims like that always make me laugh.
 
X

XMonkey

lacks enthusiasm.
Windu said:
2qw299k.jpg
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Awesome framing on this one. Seems like it belongs in a movie.
 
R

Rindain

Banned
Averon said:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17052-nasa-may-abandon-plans-for-moon-base.html
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Very good news.

Mars should have been our no.1 target all along.

What's the point in spending over a decade (at least) building a moon base to learn to live off the land, when there's basically nothing in common with living off the land on Mars and living off the land on the moon?

The best plan for NASA, as I see it, is for them to make sorties to the moon, and maybe drop off some small habitats/equipment at various locations, but to spend the lion's share of their time, effort and money on developing systems for traveling to and living on Mars.
 
W

Walshicus

Member
Rindain said:
Very good news.

Mars should have been our no.1 target all along.

What's the point in spending over a decade (at least) building a moon base to learn to live off the land, when there's basically nothing in common with living off the land on Mars and living off the land on the moon?

The best plan for NASA, as I see it, is for them to make sorties to the moon, and maybe drop off some small habitats/equipment at various locations, but to spend the lion's share of their time, effort and money on developing systems for traveling to and living on Mars.
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To commercialise - and thus accellerate the pace of development with regard to - space travel, the moon makes more sense. Power is cheaper on the moon, the far side is perfect for radio astronomy and if something goes wrong there is far greater scope for rescue. The proximity would make it easier to ferry raw materials too.
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
Averon said:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17052-nasa-may-abandon-plans-for-moon-base.html

So, what was the whole point of the Constellation program then?

NASA is so goddamn worthless nowadays. America's only hope is that the sight of rival nations like China and India establishing a presence in space will finally give the politicans the political will and power NASA needs to actually do something instead of twiddling their thumbs.
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Getting a man on Mars would be a much more powerful, much more meaningful "next step" than a base on the Moon.
 
T

Tom_Cody

Member
Windu said:
But I want a damn Moon base!
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This is all seems like terrible news, but I will be in heaven if Obama grants the money for a manned Mars mission.

Does anyone know why Windu was banned? Now this thread is going to fall to hell.
 
C

C.Dark.DN

Banned
Tom_Cody said:
Ugh, mods can be so arbitrary.

That seems like a reasonable bump to me. Would it have been better for him to make an entire thread for 1 picture?
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It was actually a good bump. I forgot about this story, and It was very interesting to compare pictures to this new one.

At least tell us how long he's gone for.
 
S

Scrow

Still Tagged Accordingly
i actually took the cancelling of the moon base as good news. nasa should be pooling the majority of their resources into getting humans to mars and establishing a permanent presence there.
 
L

laserbeam

Banned
Cancelling the Moon base is gonna end up having the effect of retarding the outward movement of Man off the planet.

The Moon as others have stated was ideal for getting the bugs and kinks out of off our planet colonization plans and it was a key part of preparing ship launched from Earth for travel to Mars.

Now we are gonna get the bugs and kinks out of our untested in the field tested systems by sending people across our Solar system? That is idiocy at least on the Moon if something goes wrong we at least have a shot at saving whoever is on the Moon.

The Travel time required just to get to mars alone means if something goes wrong everyone is dead.
 
K

kkaabboomm

Member
Averon said:
NASA's New Spaceship to Carry Fewer Astronauts

http://www.space.com/news/090429-orion-crew-slashed.html

The Constellation program is looking more and more like a joke each day :lol
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kennedy asked us to go to the moon, and then not 9 years later, we got to the moon. yes, $$ issues and all that, but wtf. they started orion in like 2004 (announced), and now they can't hit a manned-launch target 6 years from now without cutting back?

i love me some NASA and love space, but this is fucked up. ugh.
 
A

Averon

Member
kkaabboomm said:
kennedy asked us to go to the moon, and then not 9 years later, we got to the moon. yes, $$ issues and all that, but wtf. they started orion in like 2004 (announced), and now they can't hit a manned-launch target 6 years from now without cutting back?

i love me some NASA and love space, but this is fucked up. ugh.
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It's pretty sad that we're so good developing new weapons but can't update a space vehicle whose design is 40+ years old with modern technology. It's as if NASA got worse at human space exploration, not better.

With the way things are going, I see the Constellation program being canceled in two or three years.

damn reading NASA news just makes me so depressed. Maybe China will take the reins, somebody has to
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If you care about NASA, you should be rooting for China's space program. It's going to take the sight of a rival nation establishing themselves in space (space station, moon base, etc...) before America gives a damn about space again. It's no coincidence that we achieved the most in space when we feared that another country will do it first. Competition will be the best thing that can happen for NASA.
 
T

Tom_Cody

Member
kkaabboomm said:
kennedy asked us to go to the moon, and then not 9 years later, we got to the moon. yes, $$ issues and all that, but wtf. they started orion in like 2004 (announced), and now they can't hit a manned-launch target 6 years from now without cutting back?

i love me some NASA and love space, but this is fucked up. ugh.
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It's all a question of money and readiness of technology.

The reason for the current plan to go to the moon is simply that it is a project NASA can afford based of their current annual funding. If Congress and Obama want to give NASA an additional 40-50 billion dollars, we can go to Mars instead. And that is 40-50 billion dollars for one trip, not a Mars base.
 
S

Scrow

Still Tagged Accordingly
laserbeam said:
Cancelling the Moon base is gonna end up having the effect of retarding the outward movement of Man off the planet.

The Moon as others have stated was ideal for getting the bugs and kinks out of off our planet colonization plans and it was a key part of preparing ship launched from Earth for travel to Mars.
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i'm obviously no technical expert on these matters, but i saw it more as an unnecessary step.

anyway, to try and avoid this thread getting derailed with political debate about space exploration policy and spending here's an awesome picture of space.

eskimo3_hst.jpg


Explanation: In 1787, astronomer William Herschel discovered the Eskimo Nebula. From the ground, NGC 2392 resembles a person's head surrounded by a parka hood. In 2000, the Hubble Space Telescope imaged the Eskimo Nebula. From space, the nebula displays gas clouds so complex they are not fully understood. The Eskimo Nebula is clearly a planetary nebula, and the gas seen above composed the outer layers of a Sun-like star only 10,000 years ago. The inner filaments visible above are being ejected by strong wind of particles from the central star. The outer disk contains unusual light-year long orange filaments. The Eskimo Nebula spans about 1/3 of a light year and lies in our Milky Way Galaxy, about 3,000 light years distant, toward the constellation of the Twins (Gemini).
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S

SCULLIBUNDO

Banned
IMAX Corporation, NASA and Warner Bros. Pictures today announced that IMAX(R) 3D cameras will return to space to document one of NASA's most complex space shuttle operations - the final service of the Hubble Space Telescope (HST), STS-125. The IMAX 3D cameras are set to launch on board the Space Shuttle Atlantis on May 11th, 2009. The astronauts will operate the IMAX cameras and will film the five intricate and difficult spacewalks required to service Hubble. The IMAX footage will be combined with breathtaking up-close images of distant galaxies from Hubble in the upcoming IMAX/Warner Bros. Pictures co-production Hubble 3D.


This highly anticipated next installment of IMAX's 3D space film series is set to debut in IMAX theatres in Spring 2010. Through the world's most immersive cinematic experience, Hubble 3D will give audiences a front row seat as the gripping story unfolds.


The IMAX team has trained the Atlantis crew at the Johnson Space Center on the operation of the cameras, one of which will be mounted outside the cabin in the shuttle's cargo bay, to capture stunning IMAX 3D images of the historic final servicing mission. The Commander and Pilot will double as filmmakers as two teams of spacewalking astronauts - working in tandem with the shuttle's robot arm - perform some of the most challenging work ever undertaken in space as they replace and refurbish many of the telescope's delicate precision instruments.


"It's been said that The IMAX Experience(R) is the next best thing to being in space, and with IMAX 3D, the audience really IS there," said Producer/Director Toni Myers, who will be at NASA's Kennedy Space Center Press Site on Saturday, May 9th at 3:00pm EDT to answer questions about Hubble 3D. "Fifteen years ago we made a film about space exploration that included Hubble, when it started sending back the first images. Today, we have Hubble's entire phenomenal legacy of data to explore. With IMAX 3D we can transport people to galaxies that are 13 billion light years away-back to the edge of time. Real star travel is here at last."


"We have worked with IMAX on past Hubble missions and were excited about working with them again on the current Hubble mission. The Hubble Space Telescope continues to dazzle us with the splendor of our universe and after the STS-125 mission we look forward to many more years of awe-inspiring imagery," said Bob Jacobs, NASA's acting assistant administrator for Public Affairs at Headquarters in Washington. "One of the challenges in sharing Hubble's story is identifying media that can capture the scope and scale of the cosmos. IMAX has developed innovative 3-D image capture and projection technology that creates a large scale immersive educational experience in which those of us on the ground are no longer passive observers of spaceflight, we're active participants."


"This represents a very special moment in IMAX history in which IMAX 3D technology has been selected to document one of our nation's most anticipated technological events. The Hubble Space Telescope has benefited all of humanity with a close examination of our universe. Now we can transport audiences right there, all through the power of IMAX 3D. With this upgrade the Hubble Space Telescope will continue to provide us with many years of service and this film will continue to tell its story for years to come," said Richard L. Gelfond, CEO of IMAX Corporation.


"Hubble 3D will allow moviegoers to get a front row seat to see these amazing other galaxies thanks to the power of this incredible telescope," said Dan Fellman, President, Domestic Distribution, Warner Bros. Pictures. "Through our partnership with IMAX, we've taken audiences to the depths of the ocean and put them in the driver's seat in NASCAR. Hubble 3D will continue this great legacy of taking audiences to places they would otherwise never get to go and will continue to inspire both young and old alike."


"Hubble 3D will transport audiences to distant stars and beyond. It is one thing to look up at the heavens, but through this amazing project, audiences will be able to witness some of the most astonishing astronomical objects known to humankind, all from the comfort of an IMAX 3D theatre," said Greg Foster, Chairman and President of IMAX Filmed Entertainment. "We are thrilled to partner with Warner Bros. and NASA on this project and look forward to taking moviegoers to the outer edges of our universe through these extraordinary images in IMAX 3D."


About Hubble 3D


Experience the gripping story - full of hope, crushing disappointment, dazzling ingenuity, bravery, and triumph - in Hubble 3D, the seventh awe-inspiring film from the award-winning IMAX Space Team.


Vividly captured in IMAX 3D, Hubble 3D recounts the amazing journey of the most important scientific instrument since Galileo's original telescope and the greatest success in space since the Moon Landing - the Hubble Space Telescope. Audiences will accompany the space walking astronauts as they attempt some of the most difficult tasks ever undertaken in NASA's history, and will experience up close the awesome power of the launches, the heartbreaking setbacks, and the dramatic rescues of this most powerful story.


Hubble 3D will also reveal the cosmos as never before, allowing viewers of all ages to explore the grandeur of the nebulae and galaxies, the birth and death of stars, and some of the greatest mysteries of our celestial surroundings, all in amazing IMAX 3D.


IMAX's longstanding partnership with NASA has enabled millions of people to travel into space through a series of award-winning IMAX films that have cumulatively grossed more than $500 million worldwide. The IMAX 3D camera made its first voyage into space in 2001 for the production of Space Station 3D, narrated by Tom Cruise, which has grossed more than $100 million worldwide. The Hubble 3D film will mark Warner Bros. Pictures' first venture into space.


Hubble 3D reunites the Space Station 3D filmmaking team, led by Producer/Director Toni Myers. James Neihouse, Director of Photography, is also the Astronaut crew trainer. Judy Carroll is Associate Producer, and Graeme Ferguson, Co-founder of IMAX and pioneer Producer of many IMAX space films, is Executive Producer.


Hubble 3D will be released exclusively in IMAX theatres worldwide beginning Spring 2010.
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http://marketsaw.blogspot.com/2009/05/imax-3d-film-hubble-3d-to-chronicle.html
 
U

UraMallas

Member
I was just thinking about this; does anybody know if there are plans to name any upcoming spacecraft after Carl Sagan? I wonder how long they'll wait before naming a telescope or a moon after him... or something.
 
W

Walshicus

Member
Been reading a tonne about Project Orion. The ability to lift 8 million tonnes of payload? Shiieeet. I'm no militarist by any measure, but I'm kind of sad they never developed those huge Orion battleships for the USAF. The support infrastructure for them would have been pretty useful.
 
R

refreshZ

Member
Sir Fragula said:
Been reading a tonne about Project Orion. The ability to lift 8 million tonnes of payload? Shiieeet. I'm no militarist by any measure, but I'm kind of sad they never developed those huge Orion battleships for the USAF. The support infrastructure for them would have been pretty useful.
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Bouncing from a standing start on the shockwaves of hundreds of atom bombs. There simply isn't anything about Project Orion that isn't mindblowingly awesome.
 
C

Crazymoogle

Member
refreshZ said:
Bouncing from a standing start on the shockwaves of hundreds of atom bombs. There simply isn't anything about Project Orion that isn't mindblowingly awesome.
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...wow. Pretty interesting to see how much of the problem is political - initially the idea sounds crazy, but if they can contain the aftereffects that well, we can basically put a hell of a lot of material in space with just one shot.
 
W

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
NASA faces no-go, needs plutonium-238 for space missions
The Daily Telegraph said:
NASA faces a bleak future since the end of the Cold War, as the space agency is running out of nuclear fuel needed for its deep space exploration.

The end of the Cold War's nuclear weapons buildup means that the NASA does not have enough plutonium for future faraway space probes -- except for a few missions already scheduled -- according to a new study released Thursday by the National Academy of Sciences.

Deep space probes beyond Jupiter can't use solar power because they're too far from the sun. So they rely on a certain type of plutonium, plutonium-238. It powers these spacecraft with the heat of its natural decay.

But plutonium-238 isn't found in nature; it's a byproduct of nuclear weaponry.

The United States stopped making it about 20 years ago and NASA has been relying on the Russians. But now the Russian supply is running dry because they stopped making it, too.

The Department of Energy announced on Thursday that it will restart its program to make plutonium-238. Spokeswoman Jen Stutsman said the agency has proposed $30 million in next year's budget for preliminary design and engineering. The National Academy's study shows why it is needed, she said.

"If you don't have this material, we're just not going to do" deep space missions, said Johns Hopkins University senior scientist Ralph McNutt, who has had experiments aboard several of NASA's deep space missions.

So far only NASA undertakes these missions, so the shortage limits the world's look at deep space, added Doug Allen, a satellite power expert and member of the National Academy's study panel.

By law, only the Department of Energy can make the plutonium. Last year then-NASA administrator Michael Griffin wrote to then-Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman saying the agency needed more plutonium.

The National Academy report says it would cost the Energy Department at least $150 million to resume making it for the 11 pounds a year that NASA needs for its space probes.

Without that material "a lot of things will be shut down and they will stay shut down for a long time," McNutt said.

Upcoming NASA missions using plutonium include the overbudget and delayed Mars Science Laboratory, set to launch in 2011, and a mission to tour the solar system's outer planets scheduled for launch in 2020.

The last two missions to use plutonium were the New Horizons probe headed for Pluto and the Cassini space probe that is circling Saturn. Plutonium-powered probes last a long time. The twin Voyager spacecraft headed beyond our solar system and launched in 1977 are expected to keep working until about 2020, McNutt said.

Solar power is preferable to plutonium because it is cheaper and has fewer safety concerns, McNutt and Allen said. But solar power just doesn't work in the darkest areas of space, including deep craters of the moon.

Some have protested past nuclear-powered missions, such as Cassini, worrying about potential accidents.
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K

kkaabboomm

Member
anyone have a picture of the current two-shuttle lineup at the Cape? Atlantis and Endeavour are prepared for the Hubble mission launching soon (monday!), and i'd like to see if there are any ground shots or fun ariel shots of the two. I know there were some the last time Atlantis rolled out in the fall, only to have the mission pushed back, but i was looking for some current shots...
 
A

AndersTheSwede

Member
Orion getting down to 4 man crew isn't much of a surprise. 4 men was always it's exploration outfit.

And with the performance problems of Ares I the writing was on the wall.

Similarly I'm not too saddened by the likely cancellation of the moon base. It was pointless in the drive to Mars and would be yet another worthless financial albatross across the neck of NASA like ISS. They were never planning to do large scale ISRU which made the base pointless.
 
K

KimiNewt

Scored 3/100 on an Exam
kkaabboomm said:
anyone have a picture of the current two-shuttle lineup at the Cape? Atlantis and Endeavour are prepared for the Hubble mission launching soon (monday!), and i'd like to see if there are any ground shots or fun ariel shots of the two. I know there were some the last time Atlantis rolled out in the fall, only to have the mission pushed back, but i was looking for some current shots...
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http://i43.tinypic.com/mmzx9l.jpg
 
W

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
Nasa looks to private firms to carry astronauts into space
telegraph.co.uk said:
The first Nasa budget to be drawn up under President Barack Obama has revealed that funds freed up by the retirement of the space shuttle will be invested in helping the private sector develop vehicles that can carry humans and cargo into space.

It comes as the Obama administration launches an independent panel to take a "fresh look" at Nasa's human spaceflight programme.

The review will pay particular attention to the controversial Constellation programme to design and build a replacement for the shuttle.

Constellation has formed a key part of Nasa's plans to send astronauts back to the Moon following a decision by the Bush administration to go ahead with the $150 billion project.

But plans to build a four seat Orion spacecraft that would be launched into space on the Ares rocket system has been beset with technical difficulties and has been heavily criticised.

If the Constellation programme is scrapped, it risks leaving the US without the capability to send humans into space after the shuttle is retired in 2010.

After nearly 30 years, the shuttle programme will fly just eight more mission – the first launching on Monday.

Documents released by Nasa as part of its 2010 budget announcement said that the Agency planned to encourage private firms to develop new vehicles that may be able to carry its astronauts instead.

It said: "Funds freed by the shuttle's retirement will support development of systems to deliver people and cargo to the station, the Moon and other destinations.

"As part of the effort, NASA will invest in private-sector development and the demonstration of vehicles to support the agency's human crew and cargo spaceflight requirements."

Shuttle Atlantis will on Monday embark on a risky mission to give the Hubble Space Telescope a major upgrade. It will be one of the shuttle's last opportunities to demonstrate its versatility.

The shuttle is due to be retired in 2010 following increasing concerns about its safety in the wake of the Columbia disaster in 2003, when the spacecraft disintegrated during re-entry into the Earth's atmosphere after its heat shield was damaged during launch.

Hundreds of jobs are expected to be cut over the next year as Nasa prepares for the retirement of the shuttle. Already orders for any future solid fuel tanks used on the rocket boosters have been cancelled as Nasa says it has enough for the remaining shuttle flights.

Without help from private space companies, Nasa may be forced to buy its astronauts seats on the Russian Soyuz spacecraft. Alternatively the US could seek seats on vehicles being developed by other nations including China and India.

If it is unable to reach a suitable deal it could mean that the US will be unable to get its astronauts on board the International Space Station.

The Agency last year agreed contracts with two private companies, Orbital Sciences and Space X, to develop cargo vehicles for missions in low Earth orbit.

It also launched a competition for a commercial vehicle that could transport supplies to the International Space Station.

Officials said that they now hope the private sector will also be able to develop vehicles that can transport people, provided they meet strict safety requirements.

One official said: "We have spent a considerable amount of time helping to build the International Space Station, so we wouldn't want anyone flying into it.

"If we were to trust US assets, including our astronauts, to privately run spacecraft, we would need to be safe."

Nasa has also raised the prospect of renting out space on board the International Space Station to commercial companies, including pharmaceutical firms, so they can carry out research in a microgravity environment.

William Gerstenmaier, associate administrator of the Nasa Space Operations Mission Directorate, said: "We may even attract some other users to Space Station, some commercial companies that would be interested... When I think of commercial, I think of things maybe in the pharmaceutical area, maybe even in the antenna development area, maybe in some rocket engine test stuff, some optical sensor stuff."

Funding for the NASA programme is an extremely sensitive political issue and last week a new report from Houston's Baker Institute declared that the agency should give up any ambitions of sending humans to the Moon and focus instead on climate change.

It is already clear that aeronautics and earth sciences like climate change will be a major focus of NASA's future spending.

The agency is being urged to launch satellites that study the Earth and to use its supercomputers to evaluate the future consequences of global warming.

The new review panel set up by President Obama is due to report in August and will consider extending the life of the International Space Station beyond 2015 and review NASA's strategy for returning to the Moon by 2020.
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E

Extollere

Sucks at poetry
I haven't read the whole thread yet, and don't know if this was addressed or not. Bear with me because I've never taken any astronomy courses, and don't consider myself educated on the subject at all...but this is kinda blowing my mind a little bit:

http://www.phys.ncku.edu.tw/~astrolab/mirrors/apod_e/ap050104.html

I guess it's really old conventional wisdom by now, and I never actually thought much of it. Without researching or thinking about it, I somehow just assumed that our sun was the center of the Milky Way (remember I'm not educated about this, and I'm assuming there are still plenty of people who just assume the same thing). It's blowing my mind right now to realize that at the center of our galaxy is a black hole. So.. is our sun orbiting it? or do we just sit stagnant in our little local area? Are we all just slowly moving towards the center of the black hole?

http://startswithabang.com/?p=1448 (interesting read)
 
F

fallout

Member
Extollere said:
I guess it's really old conventional wisdom by now, and I never actually thought much of it. Without researching or thinking about it, I somehow just assumed that our sun was the center of the Milky Way (remember I'm not educated about this, and I'm assuming there are still plenty of people who just assume the same thing).
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Neat, isn't it? I actually made a post about this awhile back in this very thread!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11573136&postcount=794

Those pictures aren't that great, but I think you get the idea. Earth and the planets orbit the Sun. The Sun and the other stars orbit the centre of the Milky Way. Everything beyond that interacts through gravitational pull, but it's on such a massive scale that you can't really see any form of orbit (from what I know, anyway). Of course, galaxies have been known to orbit each other.

It's blowing my mind right now to realize that at the center of our galaxy is a black hole. So.. are we orbiting it? or do we just sit stagnant in our little local area?
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Yep, as I was saying above, we orbit it! That gravitational orbit (caused by the conservation of angular momentum) is one of the most beautiful, fundamental and commonplace fixtures of our universe.

Are we all just slowly moving towards the center of the black hole?
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Without doing some further research, I'm not sure. I can safely say that we'll be long gone. Hell, our galaxy will probably be long gone as I think we'll have run into the Andromeda galaxy by then.

Also, one thing to keep in mind about black holes ... they're basically an infinite amount of mass compressed into an infinitely small point (the singularity you always hear about). This is basically why we're orbiting it.
 
abstract alien

abstract alien

Member
fallout said:
Also, one thing to keep in mind about black holes ... they're basically an infinite amount of mass compressed into an infinitely small point (the singularity you always hear about). This is basically why we're orbiting it.
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According to a piece on Black holes I saw, they are apparently the alpha and omega of a galaxy. At the center of every galaxy is a massive black hole, and without it, the galaxy itself wouldn't exist, at least in the form that we know(predictable orbits, gravitational pulls working off one another, etc). What we thought was just a random monster that killed space is really a...mother of space, sorta?

Is that really true(as far as we know)?
 
A

AndersTheSwede

Member
abstract alien said:
According to a piece on Black holes I saw, they are apparently the alpha and omega of a galaxy. At the center of every galaxy is a massive black hole, and without it, the galaxy itself wouldn't exist, at least in the form that we know(predictable orbits, gravitational pulls working off one another, etc). What we thought was just a random monster that killed space is really a...mother of space, sorta?

Is that really true(as far as we know)?
Click to expand...

What taketh away also giveth. Just as when stars die and (sometimes) explode they seed heavy elements into the universe, these same elements make up our planet and even ourselves at a molecular level. (Every element heavier than Hydrogen and Helium was made in the center of a star that died. Every single one.)

Black holes can destroy anything they come near too, but they can also stabilize large regions on account of there being nothing else that can come close to them in power. Nothing to dislodge their power, means they're always there. But they also make the center of our galaxy uninhabitable.

Perhaps we wouldn't have evolved if we didn't have a super massive black hole to stabilize our orbit around the galaxy. Earth is pretty untroubled by radiation from our galaxy (on a level that would do serious planet-wide harm anyway).

Then again, I'm armchairing here.
 
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