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Space X Announces BFR - Travel anywhere on earth in under an hour - Mars in 2022

ezrarh

Member
Gotta respect Elon Musk, he is trying to do stuff that will have him remembered for thousands of years

Whether he succeeds or fails (I hope he succeeds of course) - the fact that he's trying is commendable enough since we can learn a lot from failure as well.
 
Yeah, that sounds like rather typical engineer hubris to me. We're already at the end of 2017, planning for another planet is not something you can do in just four years. Unless you just want to crash the rocket on it, that's doable. Rocket Riiiiiick! *thud*
 
With refueling in space, the BFR can make trips to the Moon's surface without needing any fuel production there, enabling the creation of "Moon Base Alpha."

Yes!! We can finally setup on the Moon and sing our songs about John Madden!
 
I'm very skeptical about all of this.

I'd love to be proven wrong though. But it seems like everything is at least 10 years too soon. Mars in 2032? Maybe, but not in 5 years, that's ludicrous. Same thing with that rocket ship. This stuff is extremely hard and uncharted terrain, yelling at your engineers won't make the progress go any faster.

People said the same thing about the Falcon 9. I mean how many people really thought in 2017 that SpaceX would be sending cargo to the ISS with a rocket that autonomously lands back at its base? That's straight out of science-fiction, but it's a reality now.

I'm not saying getting people to Mars doesn't present very hard challenges, but SpaceX has brilliant people and they have a clear focus. If a government project could get people to the Moon in a few years, it's plausible to do the same for Mars with private enterprise. The only restriction might be the amount of resources necessary for everything to come together in that kind of timeframe.
 

antonz

Member
Yeah, that sounds like rather typical engineer hubris to me. We're already at the end of 2017, planning for another planet is not something you can do in just four years. Unless you just want to crash the rocket on it, that's doable. Rocket Riiiiiick! *thud*

NASA would be pushing a far more aggressive schedule themselves if they had greater funding.
 

iamblades

Member
NASA would be pushing a far more aggressive schedule themselves if they had greater funding.

You mean if they weren't a completely political organization that is incapable of taking on risky ventures without a firm dictate from above..

NASA has enough funding to do aggressive things if that was their goal, but they are more interested in pushing along everyone's pet project than they are in just achieving a goal.

If NASA was committed to going to Mars, they could do it, but not by fucking about with ion engines or nuclear rockets or building a spaceship in orbit.

Going to mars is risky, sure, but it does not require any technology we do not already possess. All you need to do is build a big fucking rocket(no pun intended) to lift a payload and throw it to Mars.

You don't need some new engine technology to shorten the trip to 30 days or some nonexistant EM shielding, you just need to be willing to say 'we are doing this because we consider it worth the risk'. I'd bet every single astronaut and astronaut candidate would gladly be willing to sign up for that mission. 1-2% increased lifetime chance of cancer to be the first humans on mars? Seems like a fair tradeoff to me.
 
Uh, trains? I know you guys have them in the US. I took one from the middle of NYC to Newark, and it didn't take very long. But maybe that's an exception. Pubic transportation does need to improve DRAMATICALLY in most of the US.

🤔🤔

I'm not from the US

But you're gonna stretch a railroad for for 1/2 train x day?
 

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
The website says cost per passenger on an Earth to Earth trip is expected to be not much higher than flying coach today.

Hope I live to see this!
 
That concept video is so fucking awesome. I seriously hope that Space X can make this future safe and cost effective enough that it becomes just a part of everyday reality. Thats the future I want. Thats the future I have always dreamed of.
 

antonz

Member
They claim affordability for the BFR should end up being cheaper than the Falcon 1.

They say it has a Max Capacity of 240 people. Though most configurations would be around 120 people.
 

DavidDesu

Member
All I know is that Big Fucking Rocket needs to be the official name of this. Imagine the first humans on Mars being sent on the BFR, officially, for time immemorial. Wow. That’s what the human race is all about.
 

zeshakag

Member
Yeah, that sounds like rather typical engineer hubris to me. We're already at the end of 2017, planning for another planet is not something you can do in just four years. Unless you just want to crash the rocket on it, that's doable. Rocket Riiiiiick! *thud*

I'm actually quite okay with this, because to me it actually moved their timeline up. I didn't think they would get a craft to mars until 2028, but even if this project gets pushed back 4 years, that's still 2026. And this seems a lot more plausible.
 
I don't think we'll see a person on mars till the 2030's. But I could see them landing a rocket on mars and then returning it to earth by the mid 2020's. That woudl be a critical test of if a manned mission is possible.
 

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
I still think the space elevator is what we should be building, but whatever. First start with a thin one that can only have small satellites go up and down, as proof of concept, then go up from there. Burning a bunch of fuel can't be the way of the future.
 

Xe4

Banned
You mean if they weren't a completely political organization that is incapable of taking on risky ventures without a firm dictate from above..

NASA has enough funding to do aggressive things if that was their goal, but they are more interested in pushing along everyone's pet project than they are in just achieving a goal.

If NASA was committed to going to Mars, they could do it, but not by fucking about with ion engines or nuclear rockets or building a spaceship in orbit.

Going to mars is risky, sure, but it does not require any technology we do not already possess. All you need to do is build a big fucking rocket(no pun intended) to lift a payload and throw it to Mars.

You don't need some new engine technology to shorten the trip to 30 days or some nonexistant EM shielding, you just need to be willing to say 'we are doing this because we consider it worth the risk'. I'd bet every single astronaut and astronaut candidate would gladly be willing to sign up for that mission. 1-2% increased lifetime chance of cancer to be the first humans on mars? Seems like a fair tradeoff to me.
I don't think you understand how hard going to Mars actually is. To give one example, the EM shielding isn't about nor increasing astronauts cancer risk by 1-2%. Shit, astronauts already experience that. EM shielding is so that if a CME happens, people on a Mars mission won't get radiation poisining and die.

And there are many, many more complexities that people don't usually think about that both NASA and SpaceX have to deal with if they want to go to Mars.

I still think the space elevator is what we should be building, but whatever. First start with a thin one that can only have small satellites go up and down, as proof of concept, then go up from there. Burning a bunch of fuel can't be the way of the future.
The problem isn't what is going on it. The problem is the tension on the cable from being lowered to earth in the first place.

A space elivator requires several orders of magnitude of improvement over existing technology. Even if NASA had a decent budget I don't think they'd spring for it because the scope of the project is leaps and bounds above what humanity has ever attempted.
 

DavidDesu

Member
I still think the space elevator is what we should be building, but whatever. First start with a thin one that can only have small satellites go up and down, as proof of concept, then go up from there. Burning a bunch of fuel can't be the way of the future.

Sadly I’d imagine even if this was remotely possible it’s also an extremely fragile thing at the mercy of even a pretty basic terrorist attack that would destroy it very easily. A plane, a missile, whatever. Sadly humanity is fractured as fuck and full of religious nut jobs that would gladly want to destroy it.
 

nekkid

It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
I don’t understand where you are all getting this timescale to Mars in “4 years” from. If you watch his presentation he says BFR first launch in 2022 and to Mars in 2024.

He acknowledges the timeline is “aspirational” then says something like “I don’t know, 5 years seems like a long time”.
 

joshcryer

it's ok, you're all right now
I've wondered if they've done any engine testing. The BFR engine would be heard for miles around at their test site. I wouldn't expect this thing to actually launch before 2020.
 

norm9

Member
im no rocket scientist, but can't he just build a giant ass rocket and strap a bunch of other giant ass rockets onto it?
 

Aselith

Member
Wtf are you on about? He has a valid point

He really doesn't. Musk is trying to push electric and this is another venture to get us beyond Earth. The people moving Park makes it a potential money earner. I'm sure once Musk can get will try to jumpstart lectric flight too but it's not currently economical/possible.

Its pretty silly to talk about the need for conservation in regards to Musk when he's clearly working in that field too.
 

Laekon

Member
What is the life span of these rockets? I haven’t seen that mentioned for any of the SpaceX vehicles. I would think a rockets life cycle is a lot lower then an aircrafts.
 
I don't understand this.

What has this guy failed at? Ever?

What has he lied about other than aggressive timelines?

If there is one thing to count on, it's that Elon Musk delivers, sometimes a few years later than he wants, but he delivers.

The Mars plan he preached 1 or 2 years ago was already a huge empty promise.

I can argue the high speed pod he is developing is way less power efficient than conventional high speed train too, but I can wait on this one.
 

RSP

Member
What is the life span of these rockets? I haven’t seen that mentioned for any of the SpaceX vehicles. I would think a rockets life cycle is a lot lower then an aircrafts.

I was thinking this as well.

Perhaps the engine of the rocket needs to be replaced every X launches, but the rocket itself could even need less maintenance compared to a large plane.

When you consider that a Boeing 777 costs around $300M to build, and will probably fly for 30 years. During that time, it will fly the distance of about 2000 times the circumference of the earth. I'm curious how that translates to rockets. I can't imagine it takes the same amount of money to build a BFR somehow.

So for the BFR, doing trips from NY to Singapore all its life to do the same mileage, it would need to take 11.500 one-way trips. Let's say it could fly there, refuel and go back 4 times in 24-hours, it would take just 7.5 years to do that. Assuming that they will make about the same off a single transfer of passengers (fewer people, higher ticket price), but do it at a lower cost (no in-flight staff needed, no pilot needed) it could even be much more profitable in the long run compared to regular fights.

But I'm sure there's someone here with a much better understanding of how this all works.
 

antonz

Member
I've wondered if they've done any engine testing. The BFR engine would be heard for miles around at their test site. I wouldn't expect this thing to actually launch before 2020.

Construction is supposed to start next year. BFR is the future of SpaceX for everything. Falcon Heavy will be minimally produced and Falcon 9 will continue for awhile but the end goal is 2 Models of BFR. Fullsize for Mars and other objectives and a Smaller BFR for Earth Orbit Missions
 

XMonkey

lacks enthusiasm.
I've wondered if they've done any engine testing. The BFR engine would be heard for miles around at their test site. I wouldn't expect this thing to actually launch before 2020.
It uses pretty much the same engines they’re already using, just more of them. Musk is probably optimistic because they’ve done a lot of the hard work along the way with Falcon.
 

nekkid

It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
That's a big fucking rocket.

tTc9cKQ.gif
 

nekkid

It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
I don't know if they'll get to mars first - but I'll bet BFR flies before SLS does.

And for a fraction of the price.

I’m a big fan of NASA’s legacy - but holy shit they’re wasteful and poorly-managed. It’s indicative of all government operations, to be honest.
 

Crispy75

Member
It uses pretty much the same engines they’re already using, just more of them. Musk is probably optimistic because they’ve done a lot of the hard work along the way with Falcon.
All new engines actually. Bigger, higher pressure, more efficient, different fuel (methane instead of kerosene).
 
The Mars plan he preached 1 or 2 years ago was already a huge empty promise.

I can argue the high speed pod he is developing is way less power efficient than conventional high speed train too, but I can wait on this one.

This is the same "mars plan". The only thing they aren't doing now is sending a Dragon there on a Falcon Heavy - which imo is a bit of a shame, but it was basically a mission without a purpose in the first place. I mean, we already have rockets that can get "stuff" to the surface of Mars. The remarkable thing about the BFR is that the "stuff" we can get there is orders of magnitude larger *and* we should be able to get it back to earth again.

It uses pretty much the same engines they’re already using, just more of them. Musk is probably optimistic because they’ve done a lot of the hard work along the way with Falcon.

Nope, it's totally different. The current engines are Merlin's and the new ones are Raptors.

What is the life span of these rockets? I haven’t seen that mentioned for any of the SpaceX vehicles. I would think a rockets life cycle is a lot lower then an aircrafts.

The current F9s can be reused a few times, the "final" F9s (block 5) will in theory be tens of times, and the BFR is planned to be many hundreds of times, based on what they've learned so far.

I've wondered if they've done any engine testing. The BFR engine would be heard for miles around at their test site. I wouldn't expect this thing to actually launch before 2020.

They had a video on the presentation of the Raptor firing for longer than it'll need to fire for during a Mars landing. It seems it's ready the most powerful engine of any type ever made. I really don't understand how there are some people out there who actually think Musk is a shyster.
 

Jezbollah

Member
They had a video on the presentation of the Raptor firing for longer than it'll need to fire for during a Mars landing. It seems it's ready the most powerful engine of any type ever made. I really don't understand how there are some people out there who actually think Musk is a shyster.

Judging by this photo, you may be right:

DHYV79wWsAA-J4t.jpg
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
The push at the moment is for cost reduction and fuel savings in commercial airlines. Also noise reduction. Concorde wasn’t able to maximise its speed benefit because it wasn’t allowed to be supersonic over land. This would be even noisier and even less fuel efficient. You’ll get from New York to Tokyo in half an hour, but it’ll take you a couple of hours to get to and from the actual city because of how far away you’ll be landing. Add in security etc, and it doesn’t end up that fast.

Also I’m not sure of the market for it anyway - people want convenience and cheap. I just can’t see the cost getting close enough for normal people to want to use this, or the infrastructure being such that it is meaningful to use as fast travel, at least not anytime soon.

As part of a bigger picture ‘this is where I see the benefits of reusable space vehicles’ pitch, and being more a think piece than a concrete plan, its fine though
 
People did not accept the Concorde and the project was abandoned the one time a crash (not due to the Concorde itself) happened. Let's see how this pans out.
 

Sec0nd

Member
Even if this won't pan out. It's crazy ambitions like these that drive innovation. I really admire Musk for try to realize every single crazy idea he has. This is how we progress. Where would have we been if all the dreamers would have listened to the nay sayers?
 
If NASA was committed to going to Mars, they could do it, but not by fucking about with ion engines or nuclear rockets or building a spaceship in orbit.

Going to mars is risky, sure, but it does not require any technology we do not already possess. All you need to do is build a big fucking rocket(no pun intended) to lift a payload and throw it to Mars.

You don't need some new engine technology to shorten the trip to 30 days or some nonexistant EM shielding, you just need to be willing to say 'we are doing this because we consider it worth the risk'. I'd bet every single astronaut and astronaut candidate would gladly be willing to sign up for that mission. 1-2% increased lifetime chance of cancer to be the first humans on mars? Seems like a fair tradeoff to me.

NASA doesn't treat trying to get to mars as a priority because there's almost no point from a research perspective to strand people to die there.

The technologies that NASA develops, like the em drive you just shit on are far more important. Space travel with current rockets to other astral bodies is just waste of everyone's time.
 
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