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[industrian]

Its just silly to think a major industrial power like Germany with so many weapons manufacturers couldn't take care of itself.

A lot of North Americans have the misguided belief that Europeans do not have capable armed forces and/or have no will to fight. This is based on European performance in Afghanistan, where - of course - the average European soldier had just enough vested interest in fighting to fill a small bucket labelled "Ich gibt ein fick."

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

A lot of North Americans have the misguided belief that Europeans do not have capable armed forces and/or have no will to fight. This is based on European performance in Afghanistan, where - of course - the average European soldier had just enough vested interest in fighting to fill a small bucket labelled "Ich gibt ein fick."

Well, most Americans base European armed forces capabilities on WW2 still.

Germany? Beat 'em.

And then, you know France and Italy. HA.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

......so?

Doesn't every competent nation have a counter-attack plan in case of being attacked by any country? I'm sure the US has plans drawn up to attack every country on the planet in the event we're attacked. That's all this is according to the OP.

Someone help me understand why this is news?

 

[industrian]

Well, most Americans base European armed forces capabilities on WW2 still.

Germany? Beat 'em.

And then, you know France and Italy. HA.

That too.

But the concept that "Europe needs to be defended" pisses me off. It was relevant during the cold war due to our war fatigue, but it needs to die now.

But I'm going to bail out of this thread before Armchair General GAF arrives and does a massive Clancyesque circle jerk over military strategies to counteract Russia invading the North Pole and Iran bombing Sealand.

 

[Dibbz]

LOL great title OP. Maybe you should read that article you were posting about next time.

 

[Phantast2k]

......so?

Doesn't every competent nation have a counter-attack plan in case of being attacked by any country? I'm sure the US has plans drawn up to attack every country on the planet in the event we're attacked. That's all this is according to the OP.

Someone help me understand why this is news?

Yes, the title is misleading and a lot of ppl. here didn't care to read the OP to find out that it's one of Iran's retaliation plan.
How is this significant? Well, in case of war vs. Iran the Western combatants at this point would most likely be: Israel, US (UK). Germany would most certainly abstain from that war. However if Iran attacked US troops on German soil I could see Germany join forces with the aforementioned coalition.
Also Germany is not a pacifist as people (incl. lots of Germans) might like to believe:

The unit in this table are so-called trend indicator values expressed in millions of US dollars at 1990s prices. These values do not represent real financial flows but are a crude instrument to estimate volumes of arms transfers, regardless of the contracted prices, which can be as low as zero in the case of military aid. Ordered by descending 2000-2010 values. The information is from the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry#World.27s_largest_arms_exporters

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Would Iran really be that fucking stupid?.

Stupid? It's brilliant. The U.S. has been bogged down in two wars. Our military is stretched thin. Our economy is tanking. The vast overwhelming majority of Americans are weary of any more wars in the near future.

Iran knows this. It has emboldened them. The American people would lose their shit if we took to yet another war. This is why you don't go to war over false pretenses. We blew our wad in Iraq, and the world knows it. Iran definitely knows it and they're doing their thing now because they have a pretty good idea we're not going to stop them.

That is, of course, assuming this is accurate and not a fabricated pretense for more regime change. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me can't get fooled again.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Yes, the title is misleading and a lot of ppl. here didn't care to read the OP to find out that it's one of Iran's retaliation plan.
How is this significant? Well, in case of war vs. Iran the Western combatants at this point would most likely be: Israel, US (UK). Germany would most certainly abstain from that war. However if Iran attacked US troops on German soil I could see Germany join forces with the aforementioned coalition.
Also Germany is not a pacifist as people (incl. lots of Germans) might like to believe:

http://i.imgur.com/V5DOh.png[/IG]


[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry#World.27s_largest_arms_exporters[/url][/QUOTE]

understood. yes, I can see how that could become significant. just...not in the way this thread was going. It would be an unusual move for the reason you just sighted: why do something to draw another one of your enemy's allies into the conflict?

Seems like a rather dumb plan in that way...but who knows if it's even a plan they'd put in motion in the event of a conflict. It's just something drawn up. The fact that they have such plans should not surprise anyone. If they were good, they'd have plenty more of these kinds of counter-attack plans. But hopefully better plans than this. This one is a whole lot of fail.

[quote="Mammoth Jones, post: 33100485"]The American people would lose their shit if we took to yet another war. This is why you don't go to war over false pretenses. We blew our wad in Iraq, and the world knows it. Iran definitely knows it and they're doing their thing now because they have a pretty good idea we're not going to stop them.

That is, of course, assuming this is accurate and not a fabricated pretense for more regime change. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me can't get fooled again.[/QUOTE]
If Iran starts some shit, the American people will be just fine dropping more bombs.

 

[Azih]

What a crappy title.

It is possible that if we invade Iran that Iran would retaliate. WHAT MONSTERS!

 

[poisonelf]

I simply don't believe that. I don't. I'm doing something that I hate, posting on an issue that is facts-related without reading all the thread, but I can't stand this shit. I don't even care what their "sources" are.

This is either moronic, fear-mongering propaganda, paid for and everything, and some can cry "LOL CONSPIRACY THEORY" all they want, or a false, sensationalist title for the thread.

No, simply no.

 

[Kinyou]

Someone's played too much COD.

I can only give you a German source on this, but the current German secretary of defense describes the armament planning of the "Bundeswehr" as "catastrophic", and says that it's unfit for fulfilling its original task (defending Germany) and has instead become a mobile strikeforce.

 

[Something Wicked]

Our missile defense shield says "hi".

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry#World.27s_largest_arms_exporters

Damn, i never thought that Germany exports weapons more than France and Britain. I always thought that the UK is the largest West European exporter of weapons. I thought the US exports much more than 8,6 billion.

 

[sonicmj1]

......so?

Doesn't every competent nation have a counter-attack plan in case of being attacked by any country? I'm sure the US has plans drawn up to attack every country on the planet in the event we're attacked. That's all this is according to the OP.

Someone help me understand why this is news?

It's from a German source, and I bet that Germans would be annoyed if Iran attacked a target on what is essentially German soil in the event of an American invasion.

It really shouldn't be that much of a shock to us, though.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

Damn, i never thought that Germany exports weapons more than France and Britain. I always thought that the UK is the largest West European exporter of weapons. I thought the US exports much more than 8,6 billion.

H&K baby.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Any country is well within their rights to counter attack after an invasion, I would just be curious to see if they think they actually could.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

So is someone going to change the thread title

 

[Roude Leiw]

Damn, i never thought that Germany exports weapons more than France and Britain. I always thought that the UK is the largest West European exporter of weapons. I thought the US exports much more than 8,6 billion.

these numbers are no billions. read the text below.

H&K baby.

H&K is a small arms manufacturer. they dont make as much money as the big german defence companies.

 

[StealthGoblin]

I can only give you a German source on this, but the current German secretary of defense describes the armament planning of the "Bundeswehr" as "catastrophic", and says that it's unfit for fulfilling its original task (defending Germany) and has instead become a mobile strikeforce.

Even if Germany don't feel they are quite where they want to be, the rest of the EU desperately need Germany to remain strong and anything that could even cause a blip in their economy will have the other Eurozone countries on guard.

 

[delta25]

When the hell are these dumb fuck countries going to learn that it just dosen't pay to attack anything American, they're only going to make it worse for themselves in the long run. Its like throwing rocks at the worlds largest wasp nest. Leave it the fuck alone. I mean, just look at what happen to the japanese. SMH

Hell I ain't even American, not that it really matters

 

[Jenga]

the amount of people ragging on the american media about a german produced report is funny

 

[Parallax Scroll]

Hell yeah USA #1

USA USA USA

 

[nib95]

If the US is in hostile actions with Iran, US facilities could become a target. News at 11.

 

[RumblingRosco]

Hell yeah USA #1

USA USA USA

Built an empire quick and it might not last
But I bet I go down in history as the one that smashed
I'm America!

US History by Flipsyde is what I think of whenever I see our military budget or figures related to it.

 

[Guevara]

Calling it: This is some false flag FUD.

 

[Kinitari]

these numbers are no billions. read the text below.

Yeah, they're in millions, but isn't 8000 million = 8billion?

 

[Slurpy2k20]

The stupid in this thread in unbelievable.

 

[Roude Leiw]

Yeah, they're in millions, but isn't 8000 million = 8billion?

The unit in this table are so-called trend indicator values expressed in millions of US dollars at 1990s prices. These values do not represent real financial flows but are a crude instrument to estimate volumes of arms transfers, regardless of the contracted prices, which can be as low as zero in the case of military aid. Ordered by descending 2000-2010 values. The information is from the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute.

 

[jorma]

the amount of people ragging on the american media about a german produced report is funny

so i decided to count the number of posts in this topic ragging on "american media" and i got all the way up to zero

yeah, that IS funny

 

[TacticalFox88]

That too.

But the concept that "Europe needs to be defended" pisses me off. It was relevant during the cold war due to our war fatigue, but it needs to die now.

But I'm going to bail out of this thread before Armchair General GAF arrives and does a massive Clancyesque circle jerk over military strategies to counteract Russia invading the North Pole and Iran bombing Sealand.

Holy shit, this had me laughing me out loud! :lol

 

[Drek]

That too.

But the concept that "Europe needs to be defended" pisses me off. It was relevant during the cold war due to our war fatigue, but it needs to die now.

But I'm going to bail out of this thread before Armchair General GAF arrives and does a massive Clancyesque circle jerk over military strategies to counteract Russia invading the North Pole and Iran bombing Sealand.

Unfortunately most European leaders balk at the notion of U.S. withdraw from Europe, so the U.S. Gov't pours billions a year into European bases and deployment of U.S. troops for effectively zero strategic gains.

This has been proposed by U.S. politicians before and they always get shouted down by those with closer ties to European leaders as it allows a subsidized defense of Europe on U.S. tax payer dollars.

With the current state of U.S. naval superiority and the long range strike capabilities held by the U.S. there is really no reason at all to waste time with permanent foreign outposts. The U.S. military can guide rockets down ventilation shafts hundreds of miles away from the launch point yet we seriously need a standing military force in the middle of Europe and Japan?

 

[KevinRo]

Unfortunately most European leaders balk at the notion of U.S. withdraw from Europe, so the U.S. Gov't pours billions a year into European bases and deployment of U.S. troops for effectively zero strategic gains.

This has been proposed by U.S. politicians before and they always get shouted down by those with closer ties to European leaders as it allows a subsidized defense of Europe on U.S. tax payer dollars.

With the current state of U.S. naval superiority and the long range strike capabilities held by the U.S. there is really no reason at all to waste time with permanent foreign outposts. The U.S. military can guide rockets down ventilation shafts hundreds of miles away from the launch point yet we seriously need a standing military force in the middle of Europe and Japan?

I think you guys misunderstand the type of influence and political clout our military provides us around the world. It has a far greater effect on foreign countries' domestic and international policies than most people think.

Money talks, but so do guns.

 

[Fritz]

Always sticking up for the Germans, Fritz.

HA! I like this game.

I am on a mission here.

 

[AbortedWalrusFetus]

Considering it took basically the entire rest of the western world to stop Germany the last time they decided to go to war, I figure I probably shouldn't underestimate their military power.

 

[ThisWreckage]

If this is true it would be completely illogical on their part. The U.S. would retaliate tenfold.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

 

[Justin Timberlake]

So are we just going to post without reading the OP now? Is that the plan?

Why is this a thread.

Of course Iran has plans of counterattack if the US attacked them. Duh.

 

[HammerOfThor]

The article made it sound more like its what they would do if the US attacked Iran. Not that Iran just wanted to attack an US base in Gemrany

 

[Jenga]

so i decided to count the number of posts in this topic ragging on "american media" and i got all the way up to zero

yeah, that IS funny

anyone with the magical power of understanding inference will understand

which I know is just too much coming from you so whatever

 

[DigitalDevil]

It still sounds stupid. If America decides to create an unnecessary war against Iran, Iran will hit back. Oh my god! Iran is the devil!

I guarantee wherever you live there is corruption also. Get over yourself.

 

[jorma]

anyone with the magical power of understanding inference will understand

which I know is just too much coming from you so whatever

I wont be able to get you to point one of these inferences out, will i?

 

[el retorno]

Why does it seem that the same people who rage against the giant military of the West and deplore nukes so much are pulling the whole "its none of our business" card. Its damn well our (the worlds) business if a country goes against its international treaties and starts building a nuke.

 

[Deadbeat]

The german army needs to stretch its legs anyways. This will be a good warmup exercise.

How convenient

America obviously planted the information to trick the germans into getting angry at Iran and to get the US to fight Iran because thats what the US wants. Its not like the US doesnt want to deal with shit anymore after the failure of Iraq. No siree bob.

 

[Dibbz]

I guarantee wherever you live there is corruption also. Get over yourself.

What's that got to do with anything? Jesus christ it's like 90% of people posting in here did not get past the thread title.

 

[[Nintex]]

Greece be trolling the EU. They agreed to more sanctions but the Greeks blocked the Iran oil embargo the EU wanted to enforce.

 

[nib95]

Why does it seem that the same people who rage against the giant military of the West and deplore nukes so much are pulling the whole "its none of our business" card. Its damn well our (the worlds) business if a country goes against its international treaties and starts building a nuke.

Bwhaha. Don't make me laugh. Didn't you hear, the so called Western or 'free' countries made it fashionable to pick and choose which of those 'international treaties' you choose to follow.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I'm actually not so sure if Germany could defend itself against a direct attack :/

The Germans are not a war like people, but even they have there limits.

i almost died choking on my apple reading these gems. oh shit. LOL.

 

[Atrus]

Bwhaha. Don't make me laugh. Didn't you hear, the so called Western or 'free' countries made it fashionable to pick and choose which of those 'international treaties' you choose to follow.

You make it sound that there are non-Western countries that operate more ethically or morally. On any measurement, no matter how poorly 'so called Western or 'free' countries' are said to be, they are still significantly better than trashbin republics and theocracies.

Frankly, any theocracy is and should always be a cause for concern. The only place for such regimes is in the history books.

 

[nib95]

You make it sound that there are non-Western countries that operate more ethically or morally. On any measurement, no matter how poorly 'so called Western or 'free' countries' are said to be, they are still significantly better than trashbin republics and theocracies.

Frankly, any theocracy is and should always be a cause for concern. The only place for such regimes is in the history books.

Hell no. Most of them operate in worse fashion. Only, they don't claim otherwise, whereas the same cannot be said for some of these 'free' nations that like to go around boasting and enforcing it all whilst having a stupendous glow of hypocrisy about them.

But there are examples of how you can be free and modern and all that other jazz, and not be as hypocritical and corrupt. See many of the Nordic European countries etc.

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

I can only give you a German source on this, but the current German secretary of defense describes the armament planning of the "Bundeswehr" as "catastrophic", and says that it's unfit for fulfilling its original task (defending Germany) and has instead become a mobile strikeforce.

To be fair, Russia is theoretically the only major conventional threat to Europe, and their military capabilities are still a shadow of their former selves at best, and downright laughable at worst.