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[Sober]

Chill out to some stealthy music

Here is an extensive (but not exhaustive) list of info I have collected so far:

PC features:

• Confirmed that there is a team dedicated for the PC version working directly with Nvidia. Very likely it is a team within Ubisoft Toronto working on it to optimise the game and create proper control schemes.
• DX9 and DX11 builds
• PC features: TXAA, HBAO, higher-resolution textures and shadows, parallax mapping, tessellation

Wii U Features:

• Gamepad can be used for multiple features such as inventory management, to fly the tri-rotor drone, or as the snake cam (to see under doors), mark enemies, hold it up for night vision, and much more.
• There will not be off-screen (offline/split-screen) co-op on launch for the WiiU. Ubisoft has not clarified if it will be patched in later or not.

Overview:

• Sam Fisher returns as the leader of the new Fourth Echelon (4E).
• Team members include: Anna Grimsdottir (from the previous games), Charlie Cole (hacker), Isaac Briggs (CIA operative). Also joining the cast is loveable asshole Andriy Kobin from Conviction.
• The plot of the game revolves around a series of attacks on American interests orchestrated by a group of rogue nations: they demand that the United States withdraws its armed forces from every country in the world. Each attack is on a countdown and it is up to Forth Echelon to stop the Blacklist attacks from happening.
• From what is revealed and shown from trailers
  Spoiler

  the first attack happens in Guam and is Sam Fisher happens to be there with Vic Coste and Charlie Cole as it occurs; this is before he returns at the behest of the President to lead 4E
  .
• Sam Fisher, normally a recluse and solo operator is now in charge of an organization; the goal of the dev team/narrative is to show how Sam Fisher has to adapt to a leadership role throughout the game.
• The hub for 4E is in the C-147B Paladin, a large airplane re-purposed as a mobile HQ. From here you can access everything in the game or wander around the plane (like the SSV Normandy).
• There is an integrated economy system that runs through all gameplay modes (SP, COOP, SVM). You can earn currency in any game mode and spend them for any game mode with no restrictions.
• The Strategic Mission Interface (SMI) replaces any main menu present in the game and allows for extremely quick drop-in/drop-out into other gameplay modes without having to dig through menus or sit through quit/confirm screens as well as showing weekly/daily challenges (on ShadowNET) as well as integrating your friends lists and their progress (think Sleeping Dogs).
• You can disable many of the HUD elements.
• List of Achievements (spoilers!)

Gameplay:

• Blacklist is an attempt to merge the faster, lethal gameplay found in Conviction with the more traditional elements in the older games such as systemic stealth gameplay (yes, that actually had to come back), gadgets, non-lethal and lethal options for players.
  • The developers have gone on to admit that many of the ideas in the final version of Conviction ended up being very half-baked and incomplete. Either way it was a decent base with not much systemic gameplay around it.
• The devs have three main gameplay pillars: navigation, combat and stealth. The level design and AI should always be challenging one or more of those pillars and the player's mastery of the systems in the game.
• The goggles return with a full feature set: night vision and sonar modes. Some upgrades exist to add thermal to sonar, as well as additional upgrades such as footprint tracking.
• Being hidden in the dark is no longer binary and there are different stages, though probably less precise than the older games. The lights on your back, goggles and watch light up brighter the more hidden you are, turn off to let you know you can be seen rather than turning the screen from colour to a black/white filter. A fuller explanation halfway down this post.
• Closer Than Ever returns: In Chaos Theory, this is when a different set of animations play as you get closer to an enemy and start stalking over sneaking.
• Lethal/Non-lethal toggle: Now you have the option to either knock out an enemy or outright kill them. There are pro/cons to each option. The game is supposed to feature almost a hundred different takedown animations depending on stance, context, etc.
• Picking up bodies: Now you can hide bodies either in dark corners or occasionally in containers. You cannot carry a body while crouched however.
• Variable speeds: Not as many as the old games but control and precision in movement speed is still required for stealth, especially if you are right behind an enemy. There is an active sprint button that puts you into parkour mode for most things in the environment.
• The launcher returns (sorta): in the older games there was a launcher attached to a FN F2000 that fired certain gadgets, this is replaced by a crossbow that fires different bolts.
  • The crossbow can fire sticky shockers (non-lethal), EMP bolts (AOE EMPs an area), gas arrows, possibly others.
  • This replaced the launcher from the previous games to accommodate the customization system and not force players to have to pick a weapon that could accommodate a launcher over one without.
  • Other gadgets are simply thrown, like in Conviction. Such as the sticky camera, probably to nerf abuse with firing sticky cameras at people for free KOs that could be pickd up and reused.
• Whistling: Sam can once again attract enemies with a whistle/whisper. What you do with that is up to you, but the AI will catch on eventually if you try to abuse it.
• The Knife: instead of a straight double-edged blade, you now have a Karambit which functions nearly the same as any other knife except with occasionally flashier animations, plus you can cut fabrics again to create paths.
• Mark and Execute/Killing in Motion: A very polarizing feature but with some more depth built into it this time around.
  • The M&E token has its own 'gauge' that fills up to allow you to use the execute portion. A melee takedown/grab is worth 100% while a regular kill is only worth 25%, etc, or depending on difficulty. The gauge is 4 pips.
  • Mark and Execute also works with the crossbow and possibly with whatever ammo it holds for non-lethal use, as well as with the stun gun.
• Gadgets: (not exhaustive list)
  • Sticky Camera: can be upgraded to distract, release sleeping gas or detonate. Can be used to mark enemies.
  • Sticky Noisemaker
  • Proximity Shocker: throwable AOE shocker when there isn't water around to propagate a sticky shocker through multiple enemies.
  • Tri-rotor drone: A small flying drone that operates like a sticky camera except instead of sleeping gas it fires sticky shockers. Can be seen and heard and destroyed.
  • Spider-bot: possibly a late-game gadget that probably replaces the sticky camera/operates similarly enough
  • Sleeping gas grenade
  • Flashbang grenade: flash! bang!
  • Frag Grenade
  • Incendiary Grenade
  • Remote and Proximity mines in lethal and non-lethal flavours (prox shockers, etc.)
• Customization system: Equipment and their respective upgrades can be purchased for SP/Co-op with the economy system for many of your body armour slots and weapons. There are equipment pieces that vary differently between attributes that affect things like noise generation, armour, gadget capacity, ammo capacity, etc. You are free to mix and match pieces as you choose.
• Enemy types: rather than simply all the same guard with slightly different AI routines and uniforms, there are some different enemy types that vary wildly and try to force the player to re-evaluate their options.
  • Dogs: Can sense you even if you aren't in line of sight, will bark and cause attention to other guards in the area.
  • Snipers: extremely long distance enemy, you will notice them right away with their laser sight scanning back and forth. Most reports say that regardless of difficulty and armour combination, they will very likely one-shot kill you regardless.
  • Heavies: heavily armoured enemies as the name suggests, they can take more punishment from gunfire, wear a helmet/gas mask (cannot be sleeping gased directly) and cannot be meleed from the front. Also equipped with a shotgun. One mark and execute against him will only remove his helmet and you must follow up somehow, whether it be a gunshot, melee, or your partner's mark and execute.
  • Shield enemies: Likely similar to heavies, but simply cannot be shot to death from the front (whereas you could just waste ammo to finish a heavy). Make sure to attack from behind, whether that be in melee or with a gun/something else.
  • Tech enemies: They actively jam your vision modes (yes even NVG) from working unless taken out. They also seem to be as well geared as heavies. If alerted they will release remote controlled cars that search for you and explode. Cars shot once will be disabled. A second shot will cause them to explode. Good for setting traps.
  • Night vision enemies: The dark is no longer safe!

But is it stealth?

• The designers have stated that the goal was to create a sandbox-lite feeling within the levels; so even as levels are linear in a sense (as most Splinter Cell levels are), there are plenty of sections that open up and are rife for the player to tackle as they wish to achieve whatever objectives.
• The developers did not want to 'force' trial-and-error stealth on players throughout the entire game (there are sections with forced ghost stealth) but they are doing their best to encourage it by making it more rewarding (points, currency) and trying to make it difficult to tackle enemies head on; you will still get overwhelmed and killed easily even with the improved gunplay if you play it simply as a cover shooter.
• The most drastic change is that all levels open up with the enemy unaware of your presence (or, "by default you are stealth" to quote the devs) whereas in Conviction where 99% of the time the enemy was immediately aware of you are as soon as you passed a predetermined spot in the level you enemies were placed on alert and specifically aware of your presence for narrative reasons.
• Therefore the levels have been crafted as 'ecosystems' where for all intents and purposes the AI run as if you don't exist or were never there but will react accordingly if they become alerted to your presence.
• All levels have been carefully crafted and playtested ad nauseum to allow for all playstyles but not with separate "paths". The devs has stated on the record they have 'advocates' that play each level specific to a playstyle and co-ordinate with the level designers to ensure all three playstyles are supported through level design.
• Levels are 'blackboxes' as explained by the devs, they do a 2d pass (for cover, lines of sight), then 3d pass (for things like ledges, pipes, vents) to ensure levels are full of options and opportunities.
• Stealth is rewarded much more than playing lethally or loudly to where knockouts are worth 66-100% more points (in turn more money) and completely leaving guards undisturbed is worth even more alone.
• There is a trophy/achievement for completing the game without any kills though there will be sections where you are forced to neutralize the enemy to proceed.

In regards to the AI: (note these are all observational from people who have played the game or from what can be gleaned from videos)

• Once again, guards will not notice your presence in a level unless you make a mistake or decide to tell them and will go about their way in the world. You will still hear conversations but there are no interrogation dialogues as in the older games or interrogation sequences from Conviction.
• AI more likely to hear you if you aren't almost completely still or at the slowest speed, even decked out with equipment designed for maximum stealth.
• AI more aggressive if you disturb the environment, especially if you do something like shoot out a light versus turning it off; they will go to investigate regardless but they might react differently and/or escalate/call for help.
• There are different AI roles, some that are leaders that will co-ordinate with others to start searches rather than having a bunch of stragglers walk off while others stand still, especially if you caused a ruckus.
• Dogs will chase you further and rouse guards into searching if they sense you; human AI will work with dogs to try to figure out where you could be.
• AI will now hear nearby abductions (character grabs) unlike other games. This also makes it harder to pick off guards slowly one-by-one as they will notice their fellow guards going missing.
• AI work better when investigating, covering one another rather than roaming alone. If you are spotted they will try to funnel you into compromising positions with cover fire, grenades, etc.
• AI has better detection and notices things better, you cannot simply walk between blobs of shadows to get to where you want; observation and planning is more important especially if you wish to remain undetected.

The three playstyles:

• Ghost
  • The style that most old-school players will want to play and the most rewarding of all playstyles. Almost entirely enforced in Perfectionist mode.
  • Everyone has their own definition of what ghosting entails but the game rewards you for non-lethal KOs (takedowns, gadgets, etc.)
  • Awards even more points for leaving enemies alone.
• Panther
  • The optimal style the devs hope some players will play or for people coming in from Conviction.
  • A lethal take on stealth formalized in Conviction, you are rewarded for killing an enemy in stealth by any means
  • Also awards points if you slip past enemies alerted to you (but currently cannot find you) at checkpoints.
• Assault
  • If you are detected when you kill an enemy, you will get assault points, knockout or kill or whatever as long as they remain detected and don't de-escalate from that phase.
• At the end of missions (or SvM rounds), whatever points you accumulate is subject to a multiplier, which in turn converts it into cash (dollars) and can be used to buy into the customization system. One way to increase your final score multiplier is to upgrade the Paladin.
• On Normal Difficulty, it looks like a KO (ghost) is worth 125, a stealth kill (panther) is worth around 100 and a straight up kill while detected (assault) counts as 'combat kill', only 75 points. There are also points rewarded after points of no return for ghost (enemies undisturbed, more than non-lethal KOs) and panther (some points for enemies evaded). These scale with difficulty.
  

Perfectionist Mode:

• New 4th difficulty to encourage older Splinter Cell gameplay
• AI has better detection, much deadlier if spotted
• One-shot one-kill against the player
• Cannot melee any enemies from the front (observation: only when they have detected you)
• Cannot see through walls with Sonar goggles
• Cannot restock/change loadouts mid-mission
• No option to "execute" with Mark & Execute; can still mark however
• Last Known Position ghost is disabled: Surprise! It's been in all the games the entire time! You just couldn't see it until it was in Conviction.

Co-op/Deniable Ops

• There are 14 distinct co-op missions that are completely different from the single player and SvM maps.
• Co-op maps were developed by Ubisoft Shanghai (SCPT, SCDA)
• Your co-op partner is Isaac Briggs, who plays exactly the same as Sam Fisher and has the same customization options.
• With the exception of the Isaac Briggs missions, many levels can be soloed and can be repeated for points/money for customization.
• Devs don't want co-op to become a 'follow the leader' mentality where one player knows everything and does the majority of the work; greater emphasis on co-op moves to traverse environment or situations where players are asked/encouraged to split apart for periods of time to accomplish tasks.
• Mark and Execute no longer works the same in Conviction, you can only execute the targets you have marked. For enemies like the heavy that require two shots to kill will require some timing on behalf of both partners.
• There will be paths in some of the soloable maps that are inaccessible because they require both partners to access.
• Co-op missions are given by Grim, Briggs, Charlie and Kobin with their own flavour to it. The Deniable Ops label has been abandoned but analogues are very similar to how they worked in Conviction, but with a better spin on it:
  • The majority of the missions will be narrative based and will feature a mix of play styles. These missions cannot be soloed. (Co-op campaign)
  • Grim's missions are very old school SC (ghost style), there are usually extreme restrictions such as no-kills or instant-fail upon detection. (Infiltration mode but with objectives, no forced terrorist hunt). Bonus points for leaving guards undisturbed. Patrol paths randomize upon load. These maps work more like a large sandbox (think Chaos Theory's Bank level).
  • Kobin's missions are more panther style, and play exactly like Hunter in Conviction. There are a series of small sandbox arenas and you can take out guards how you want before proceeding to the next area.
  • Charlie's missions are more assault style where you have to defend an objective from enemies. You can use stealth/go non-lethal.

Spies Vs. Mercs

• Two versions with similar general map layouts but laid out similarly and lit differently depending on game mode.
• Original creator of SvM (Gunther Galipot) is back as director of SvM along with Ubisoft Montreal.
• Basic premise involves the spies (play in third person) hacking 3 terminals in any order, mercs (play in first person) have to prevent that, then teams switch.
• There will be extensive custom match options provided.
• Additional modes besides traditional SvM: Team Deathmatch, Extraction (a version like Double Agent's) and Uplink (control point)
• Apparent changes since PT/CT/DA SvM:
  • Both sides have unlimited lives so spies trying to kill mercs and burn their lives no longer possible; have to hack instead.
  • Hacks are now initiated on the spot, but wireless after it has started, so the spy can go off and try to hide. The area is cordoned off and the other nodes cannot be hacked simultaneously.
  • The spy who initiates the hack has to stay within the area to finish it; if killed there is a small grace period where someone can continue the hack before it resets.
  • Spies have a knife that can kill mercs up close, but usually difficult. They also have environmental attacks (ledge grabs, death from above) while most merc kills are either weapon-based and they have more humiliating melee finishers.
  • When mercs are killed, they spectate based on security cameras in the level instead of on their teammates. These cameras can be disabled temporarily by the spy team.
• Classic variation (2v2):
  • Extremely light-and-shadow based, maps are lit appropriately so that spies can blend or hide in the shadows, more claustrophobic feeling
  • Mercs armed with flashlights; they can be turned off to hide and ambush spies as well.
  • Spies do not have offensive guns (only a knife), carry only non-lethal weapons like sticky shockers and gadgets; also armed with night vision goggles.
  • Limited to no customization involved, at least with the economy system.
• Blacklist variation (4v4):
  • Maps aren't lit as extremely as classic mode and the pace is a little faster with 8 players, slightly opened up with less dark shadows and layout.
  • Both sides come with pre-set classes that have their own gadgets and abilities.
  • Takes full advantage of customization with create-a-class slots unlocked fairly soon after playing, similar to SP where you can customize all body slots plus a special ability, total of twelve slots (6 each, 3 available and 3 unlockable). Some gear pieces might also provide some sort of change in ability use (e.g. further Death From Above distance, prevent being spotted on screen by other abilities, etc.)
  • Weapon customization similar or on-par with what exists in Ghost Recon: Future Soldier gunsmith.
  • Spies now can equip regular guns but mercs more armoured, better handling than spies with guns. (spies cannot ADS)
  • Spy Presets:
    • Intel Scout - tracks enemies
    • Predator - stronger at CQC, has a digital camo suit that allows you go temporarily go invisible
    • Saboteur - distrupt or take out enemy gadgets and equipment
  • Merc Presets:
    • Peacemaker - strongest merc with extra armour, adrenaline shots to boost stats
    • Hunter - has drones that can be used to mark and track spies or detonate them
    • Distruptor - can distrupt spies equipment and HUD

More from the OP
My thoughts on level design in stealth games
"His name is Sam Fisher, and he is Splinter Cell", an essay on Michael Ironside/Eric Johnson within the context of the current Sam Fisher
My Conviction RTTP thread

For a larger list of media, please see this post

Official trailers:

• World Premiere trailer (CGI)
• The Fifth Freedom trailer
• Inauguration trailer
• Abilities: Strike, Stalk, Silence trailer
• The Blacklist Begins trailer
• Transformation trailer
• Ghost/Panther/Assault trailer
• Threat trailer
• Multiple Choices Trailer (aka Blacklist 101)
• Co-op trailer
• Spies vs. Mercs trailer
• Wii U trailer

Images:

 

[Courage]

Spies vs Mercs...

 

[Sober]

Since I pretty much hit the character limit in the OP, I'd like to add that:

1) I have deep dived pretty hard into the official forums, so ask me any questions about what grimy details I have read at 3am in the morning as it might not be in the OP.

2) I also plan on trying to organize some Chaos Theory/Conviction co-op (for PC anyways) a bit down the line.

 

[mullet2000]

Hey, as long as Spies vs Mercs is back and actually good, I don't really care if the campaign is bad, personally.

Obviously I hope it's actually good, but the only reason i'm even interested is Spies vs Mercs.

Also, I actually had no idea there were co-op missions in the game. Huh.

 

[SketchTheArtist]

Was anything from Spies VS Mercs shown during E3 at all?

 

[Sober]

Was anything from Spies VS Mercs shown during E3 at all?

Not officially. They did have SvM on the show floor at the Ubi booth for people to play but none of their official E3 content focused at all on coop/svm or trying to repair the 'but where is Ironside? Should we be worried about stealth?" but all they really showed was a pretty linear part of a mission with some platforming, a small stealth room and then a chase sequence.

They actually had a lounge off the LA convention center - the UPlay lounge - and they actually had an SvM tournament (finals was the two finalists paired with a SvM dev; the creator and the other with the producer). Winner got an all-expenses-paid trip to PAX Prime this year.

Did they bother recording some of it? Yeah there's maybe like 2 minutes of cuts somewhere but nothing comprehensive, which I think was stupid as hell.

 

[FutureZombie]

Pandora Tomorrow was my favorite multiplayer experience from last gen. And I never once tried the single player!

I love how they're giving us two options for spies vs. mercs. If it's even close to as good as Pandora Tomorrow, I'll be happy. I hope they can recreate that feel of tension.

 

[guek]

Hey I have two minutes, I guess I'll just read the op...hmm....uh...goddamn.

Well I aint got that much time But I am excited for this game. Will definitely buy as long as it's generally well received by reviewers and fans.

 

[demolitio]

Even I have lost interest in the series and I've bought every single SC game at launch and it's been going downhill too much for me to get too hyped until I see the reviews of the full game from other SC vets. Change in a series is inevitable, but changing the identity too much leads to a quicker death to a series than anything else and it happened to my other favorite series out there, SOCOM...

If SvM is actually good, I'll pick it up at some point but I can't see getting it at launch right even if I do want it simply because of money issues which is a damn shame since my friend and I always enjoyed playing SvM and being called hackers just because we used communication, decoy strategies, etc. that made it impossible to beat us. It was some of the most fun I've ever had in a MP game and I miss it so if this is just a tiny sliver of that old feeling, I'm sure I'll get it down the line when hopefully my next surgery is covered.

Nice thread though! I'm surprised at just how under the radar this game is right now partially due to Ubi's own stupidity and partially due to the timing of its release now.

 

[Nome]

Wonderful thread dude. Great job.

I'm really hyped for this one; we tried to get a Chaos Theory 2v2 going on at the office but were sad to find out it wouldn't run properly on our machines. I'm super psyched for this one.

 

[The Main Event]

I spent many, many hours on Spies vs Mercs in Pandora Tomorrow on Xbox. If it's as good as before, I'm in for the Wii U version (assuming it's a good port).

 

[N2NOther]

First, great work on the OP. Wow.

Second, Splinter Cell is one of my all-time favourite franchies. I've avoided so much for this game because I want the freshest experience possible. Walking past the booth and the playable demo in MS's booth at E3 was a testament to my will.

 

[Slayer-33]

DAT OP

 

[Grisby]

Great work man. This and Dragons Crown are my August games.

I'm sad about Ironside but I'm hopeful that I'll just get used to it after a couple of hours. Conviction made me feel like a goddamn ninja hunter. Spies Vs Mercs and a better attempt at mixing action/stealth has me excited.

 

[Kazerei]

Great work OP, thanks for writing it all up.

It's encouraging to hear the dev team emphasize stealth and open-ended gameplay, and the recent footage looks solid. I hope it's a good game but I'm still not convinced though. I'll be waiting to see the reviews and gaf impressions.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Great OP.

Everyone at Ubi just seems tired when it comes to SC.

The hell.

I'm actually looking forward to it.

 

[SatoAilDarko]

The last I played of Splinter Cell was a demo I had for the original Xbox. I still remember clearly opening the door to a narrow hallway and fuguring out how to do that jump that spread my legs to either wall to hold myself up. I only got to the morgue.

I'm definitely gonna try this one out on Wii U when it drops in price a bit. Off-TV play has made me more open to try different genres. Stealth is probably one of my least favorite genres but I've always found it interesting. I like that this game appears to give you options in how to approach any situation. Multiplayer also seems like something I would like to try.

 

[Sober]

Great work OP, thanks for writing it all up.

It's encouraging to hear the dev team emphasize stealth and open-ended gameplay, and the recent footage looks solid. I hope it's a good game but I'm still not convinced though. I'll be waiting to see the reviews and gaf impressions.

Here is a pretty good article/post from one of their most vocal critics on the official forums. He got flown into Toronto to play what they had plus Q&A with the dev team. Definitely worth a read even if it isn't GAF impressions. Wish I had room to fit it in the OP.

Why Everyone Should Be Excited About Blacklist

 

[Steelyuhas]

Spies vs Mercs...

lol yeah this

I don't have much interest in what the single-player Splinter Cell has become, but if Spies vs Mercs lives up to its Chaos Theory version then there's a good chance that I end up purchasing this.

 

[Effect]

Picking up the Wii U version for sure. I haven't played Splinter Cell since the GameCube. I just hope enough people are interested and buy that version as well.

 

[Mileena]

Picking up the Wii U version for sure. I haven't played Splinter Cell since the GameCube. I just hope enough people are interested and buy that version as well.

SvM (and in turn, basically this whole game) on Wii U would be ruined if no one bought it and had a really pathetic player count online. Would hate to see that happen because if I was gonna get a console version, that would definitely be it. Will probably skip or wait for Steam sale though.

 

[Tomat]

Tempted to pick it up for SvM. Sadly that means I'll have to pay for a new XBL sub as well. Not sure if it's worth it just for SvM.

 

[Effect]

SvM (and in turn, basically this whole game) on Wii U would be ruined if no one bought it and had a really pathetic player count online. Would hate to see that happen because if I was gonna get a console version, that would definitely be it. Will probably skip or wait for Steam sale though.

This is a big concern. It's also have me torn. Do I get at launch or do I wait and see how it sells? If I wait I'm just adding to the lack of players and to the discouragement others might have about picking up the game. If I get it there is a chance not many others will and I'm out $60. Or less if I can resell to Amazon in time.

 

[Sober]

SvM (and in turn, basically this whole game) on Wii U would be ruined if no one bought it and had a really pathetic player count online. Would hate to see that happen because if I was gonna get a console version, that would definitely be it. Will probably skip or wait for Steam sale though.

I dunno if they have set it in stone but right now they aren't saying about an XBONE/PS4 version. PC might be the place for longevity, assuming SvM has enough legs, especially if they stick with 360/PS3 console versions. Seems like an awful time to try to make a game with MP without investing into next-gen consoles.

 

[xandaca]

Picking up the Wii U version for sure. I haven't played Splinter Cell since the GameCube. I just hope enough people are interested and buy that version as well.

I'm buying the Wii U version too. So there'll be at least two people.

 

[Gareth Bale]

Here is a pretty good article/post from one of their most vocal critics on the official forums. He got flown into Toronto to play what they had plus Q&A with the dev team. Definitely worth a read even if it isn't GAF impressions. Wish I had room to fit it in the OP.

Why Everyone Should Be Excited About Blacklist

"Their mission with Blacklist, as Max put it, was to "open as many doors as possible for the old fans to come back to the franchise". By offering as much of the old SC experiences within their newly evolved Splinter Cell framework, plan was to give everyone who has a history with this game a reason to return."

Not encouraged by this. Not if their newly evolved framework includes more of those small play areas within their linear levels, moving at 100mph, and pressing a button to autokill 3 enemies

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

I'm buying the Wii U version too. So there'll be at least two people.

I'm with you two. Luckily GAF and miiverse should make it easier to find coop partners when the audience base inevitably dwindles to next to nothing.

 

[Sober]

"Their mission with Blacklist, as Max put it, was to "open as many doors as possible for the old fans to come back to the franchise". By offering as much of the old SC experiences within their newly evolved Splinter Cell framework, plan was to give everyone who has a history with this game a reason to return."

Not encouraged by this. Not if their newly evolved framework includes more of those small play areas within their linear levels, moving at 100mph, and pressing a button to autokill 3 enemies

New framework I do have to assume means most of the base is Conviction in terms of speed but it seems like they've made the effort to try to reach for what made Chaos Theory good which is the feeling of being an invisible intruder and not action-hero-in-a-stealth-sequence.

Watch some of London map videos, they are bit repetitive but they each try to show different paths that can be taken. Splinter Cell has been pretty linear, not really as open as Blood Money or what have you. I guess you could argue that Bank/Displace/Hokkaido and some other maps from Chaos Theory were sandboxy but they were still pretty small in scale.

Movement definitely still concerns me because Sam is a bit faster but at least they seem to have made some concerted efforts to make sound more important and creeping up on guards tougher, especially if they hear abductions and other disturbances.

Mark and Execute is a tragedy and really ever made sense in GRFS but honestly it is literally has button devoted to it and nothing else and on PC you could probably unbind it so there's never really time you might actually hit it by accident over something else.

 

[Unity2012]

Great OP, amazing job.

My question is, will there be a next-gen version of BL?

 

[Gareth Bale]

New framework I do have to assume means most of the base is Conviction in terms of speed but it seems like they've made the effort to try to reach for what made Chaos Theory good which is the feeling of being an invisible intruder and not action-hero-in-a-stealth-sequence.

Watch some of London map videos, they are bit repetitive but they each try to show different paths that can be taken. Splinter Cell has been pretty linear, not really as open as Blood Money or what have you. I guess you could argue that Bank/Displace/Hokkaido and some other maps from Chaos Theory were sandboxy but they were still pretty small in scale.

Movement definitely still concerns me because Sam is a bit faster but at least they seem to have made some concerted efforts to make sound more important and creeping up on guards tougher, especially if they hear abductions and other disturbances.

Mark and Execute is a tragedy and really ever made sense in GRFS but honestly it is literally has button devoted to it and nothing else and on PC you could probably unbind it so there's never really time you might actually hit it by accident over something else.

Yeah I've watched that video in the warehouse type place, but I have trouble believing their claims. I remember watching similar ones for Conviction where they showed some of the more 'open' points in a level and tried to show us you could play it like you used to. In the end it was painfully obvious they designed the game to be played differently. And this is always a problem, no matter how much they say "well you can turn off this, and you don't have to use that if you don't want".

Ok they re-added stuff like sticky shockers and night vision, but to me it just sounds like they're just throwing a few bones and still fighting to take the game in a direction that no one wants. That, or they're trying to cater to everyone.

 

[Sober]

Yeah I've watched that video in the warehouse type place, but I have trouble believing their claims. I remember watching similar ones for Conviction where they showed some of the more 'open' points in a level and tried to show us you could play it like you used to. In the end it was painfully obvious they designed the game to be played differently. And this is always a problem, no matter how much they say "well you can turn off this, and you don't have to use that if you don't want".

Ok they re-added stuff like sticky shockers and night vision, but to me it just sounds like they're just throwing a few bones and still fighting to take the game in a direction that no one wants. That, or they're trying to cater to everyone.

Good points. The dev team seems pretty shut in regarding showing much (they showed maybe like 70% of the London chem lab mission, that's as good as it gets?). I thought some of the arenas in Conviction were fairly large but again that game was almost exclusively designed to be played as cat-and-mouse. It seems like they have more systemic gameplay this time around where the AI is *gasp* unaware until you make yourself known. This is good but I do agree it all hinges on level design to let everything work well, especially for people who want to remain undetected.

To add to the hype/antihype here is a video. I did link it in the OP but it was pretty recent and I thought it was pretty funny. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPGZpL7do-k

At the end of the London level you have a forced stealth section. No detection, cannot touch any enemies. This is one man's Sisyphean attempt. Probably didn't notice the conditions and just tried to bolt straight for the objective marker. You can see the confusion in his face when the game goes to restart his checkpoint every time. Glorious.

It also provided me with a perfect gif.

Ghostplayers.gif:

 

[rockman zx]

Fantastic OP. I hope Ubi do something with the marketing before august becuase it's like they are sending it to die.

 

[scitek]

I like how a lot of the new stuff is things that were in the series 8 years ago just making a return.

 

[Sober]

Did Ghost Recon: Future Soldier ever get a Steam banner on release? I ask because it was clearly not Steamworks but I could swear I saw it (might've been an Ubi publisher sale instead). That and I swear FarCry 3 also got a release banner on Steam.

Where as Saints Row IV and even XCOM Declassified will very likely get a giant banner on Steam on their release day (which is the same, August 20).

Granted I don't think XCOM Declassified is on Steam yet (edit: the entry exists, just no store page) either but since it's a 2K published game it should show up soon. Blacklist still doesn't have an entry on Steam.

Ubi is trying awful hard to not put any effort into this. Well, the publishing arm anyway. The devs seem to be trying hard to get as close to Chaos Theory as they can but they certainly aren't doing themselves any favours marketing only to their forumites who've probably been sold on the game a few times over back in May.

 

[Isaccard]

Panther is my kinda style.

I loved Conviction.

 

[Pooya]

nice thread.

The game really doesn't seem bad like it was at first, but still doesn't look exciting. They brought back most things removed in Conviction, probably worth playing now. We will see what they've done with level design and everything else. Still the game feels soulless to me.

Edge just put up their Time Extend on Chaos Theory, I was just reading that;

http://www.edge-online.com/features/time-extend-tom-clancys-splinter-cell-chaos-theory/

Seeing what Splinter Cell series could've become after that game and what it became is very disappointing. Everything worked well together in CT, from narrative and some great dialog to the gameplay & fantastic level design.

 

[Sober]

nice thread.

The game really doesn't seem bad like it was at first, but still doesn't look exciting. They brought back most things removed in Conviction, probably worth playing now. We will see what they've done with level design and everything else. Still the game feels soulless to me.

Edge just put up their Time Extend on Chaos Theory, I was just reading that;

http://www.edge-online.com/features/time-extend-tom-clancys-splinter-cell-chaos-theory/

Seeing what Splinter Cell series could've become after that game and what it became is very disappointing. Everything worked well together in CT, from narrative and some great dialog to the gameplay & fantastic level design.

Oh man, good read. It also made me realize I should've linked some Chaos Theory tracks in the OP if I only had another 1000 characters to work with.

It's sad, we probably will never get another Chaos Theory caliber game but hopefully they are at least trying to aim for it unlike where they took the franchise with Double Agent and Conviction.

 

[Rebel Leader]

Spies vs Mercs...

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/tumblr_mbhkbxr0Zl1qdb4cxo1_r1_500.gif[/IM G][/QUOTE]

Hold it right there, judging from the gameplay it's more like the spies are from assassin's creed multiplayer

=(

 

[ebullientprism]

I was very down on it coming in off the extremely dissapointing Conviction but some of the things in the OP are kinda warming me up to it.

Its unreal how well CT holds up. I replayed it again recently (and did a bunch of co op missions on the PC) and the game is just as amazing as ever. It even looks great. I dont expect this to be CT 2, expecting that in todays shootbang climate is unrealistic but if they can pull back far enough from Convicition we might actually have a cracking good game on our hands.

If not, at least the co op missions will be fun. :/

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Derrick will be back in August, just in time to shit on this game

Sober, you've done a great job being the single (un)officla PR guy for this game. There always one of this website, from 8byte's fanatical defense of Fuse, to Ezekial's "give NT a chance you guyz " acceptance of DmC to Ticky-Shadow's "OMGGGGGG GAME OF THE EVER OPRAH.GIF" love affair with Tomb Raider. I gotta say though, out of all them, you're the least annoying to read!

Keep up the good work

 

[jet1911]

Buying the WiiU version unles it's a technical mess.

 

[AlucarD.eq]

I'm SO SO Hyped for this game....

 

[revolverjgw]

This actually looks like a bit of a return to form. Maybe not SC1 or CT form, but if it's as good as the Xbox version of DA that would be fine and I'll forgive them for getting rid of Ironside.

 

[Sober]

Derrick will be back in August, just in time to shit on this game

Sober, you've done a great job being the single (un)officla PR guy for this game. There always one of this website, from 8byte's fanatical defense of Fuse, to Ezekial's "give NT a chance you guyz " acceptance of DmC to Ticky-Shadow's "OMGGGGGG GAME OF THE EVER OPRAH.GIF" love affair with Tomb Raider. I gotta say though, out of all them, you're the least annoying to read!

Keep up the good work

Thanks ... I guess?

Trust me, I had the same reaction as most of the internet when it was shown back in 2012 during the MS E3 conference. It's not my fault the actual PR/marketing for this game is so bad you have to really deep dive for any scraps about the game. If I didn't bother I'd probably have the same disposition as most gaffers.

 

[Sober]

Didn't have the word count to fit into the OP but here's something to groove to while you get into your stealth groove: the amazing Chaos Theory soundtrack!

Lighthouse | Cargo Ship | Bank | Penthouse | Displace | Hokkaido | Battery | Bathhouse | Kokubo Sosho

Cargo Ship is pretty much my favourite of the bunch.

 

[Swifty]

Thank you for putting this game back on my radar, OP. Good to hear that actual stealth is coming back.

 

[B-Genius]

About to do the Spiderman kiss...

Amazing thread. I can't wait for this game. The return of Spies vs. Mercs alone is enough.

 

[Sober]

Because no one has much to talk about I thought I'd do a series of "deep dives" on the topics of the game that I'm sure GAF hasn't heard much about, or maybe to help those worried about the game sleep at night. Or keep them up in fear. Maybe it will spark some more discussion, whether or not it is on the topic or not.

Today I'll address the levels. Levels are everything in stealth games. Everyone says being able to sneak is the bread and butter, but that's the moment-to-moment gameplay. Level design is probably paramount in any stealth game because you can balance the mechanics as much as you want to become easier to access or ball-crushingly hard, but without good levels, what good is the actual stealth if you are just crouching through a hallway with specifically placed cover points? There is no fun or satisfaction in that.

If you look at the picture above, you see on the sides "GLOBAL HUNT / 35 LOCATIONS". This was day 0 at E3, but someone actually brought it up, I guess while they were watching this trailer (arguably the most bring) again. This is interesting because the devs have never specified how long the solo campaign in the game is. They've said six SvM maps, fourteen co-op maps (an additional 2 from pre-orders). So this is the closest they've gotten to addressing the story length.

35 Locations. Is that SP and Co-op combined? If so, 35 - 14 = 21, so there is a possible total of 21 single player missions?

Even if we take a conservative value and say include the DLC, we have 19. Will the SvM maps tie into the story? Who knows, but even then, you have 15 (or 13 with the DLC).

That seems a bit skewed. I'm erring on the side that DLC doesn't count nor does SvM maps. Twenty-one locations seems like a huge jump from the ten or so from Chaos Theory, especially if they err on the side of similar lengths (let's say 45 minutes vs what might take an hour for some CT maps).

We also know we will be globe hopping. I'll address SP first. There are a few known locations. Mirawa, Iraq (from the E3 2012 "KINECT AIRSTRIKES!" reveal) is probably returning though likely to be revamped, as most E3 demo material is. The fact that the scene from that reveal trailer still appeared in the Ubi conference a year later is telling. There really isn't much to say except it's still probably at day time though likely retooled. How much, we will know when it comes out. If it's on the level of Bioshock: Infinite I would actually be surprised.

There is also the Island of Guam, which revealed in trailer is the site of the first Blacklist attack. There isn't much know about it but it is easy to assume it will somehow involve Sam Fisher being there, possibly wrong place/wrong time and it will probably serve as the tutorial for the game to introduce any new players to the very alien concept of stealth (such as light/shadow, sneaking, etc.) and helping to kick off the story.

Benghazi, Libya

This is the second mission of the campaign and also the first full mission of the story, where Forth Echelon has to go to Libya to retrieve an informant who has intel on the Blacklist. This person also happens to be Kobin from Conviction. This level is interesting as it means that Ubisoft Toronto is somewhat confident that they can hit the ground running by having a daytime level and so soon from the start of the game. Daytime missions in the older games were generally (if not all) misses. Although there is a distinct lack of darkness, they seem pretty sure that the player will be able to realize actual line-of-sight occlusion and distractions will prove extra handy to stay undetected. Missions not fully at night may also be a sign that the narrative will feel like it is on a timer.

Although not completely shown, it has been demoed multiple times and many have guessed it has a few extra stages/segments to be revealed:
1) infiltration to suiting up (shown in trailer)
2) infiltration to CIA safehouse
3) Benghazi rooftops
4) streets towards and into police station
5) Extraction with Kobin

One other note to make is that the extraction was planned and previewed as a part where "shit hits the fan" and you have to shoot your way out. The devs have later retooled and confirmed that section can be ghosted, in accordance to keep their 0 kill trophy possible.

Lansdowne Mill, London

Possibly the most demoed to everyone, this is a very typical nighttime mission, rain all around, guards in a dark warehouse not expecting your presence. It seems a large portion (if not 75-80%) of this mission has been shown and is probably a fairly decent indicator of possible length of a typical mission as well as a good vertical slice to examine level design. The segments possibly are:

1) Infiltration to the mill
2) Rooftops
3) Descent into the warehouse/'Abandoned Mill' as in gameplay previews
4) Infiltration into loading bay
5) Loading bay (forced stealth section)

It should be noted that the last section is forced stealth. The game instantly fails you if you touch an enemy or become detected. This part has actually been previewed since January and seems present in current builds so it likely has stuck. Will be interesting to see when a stealth section is forced on a subset of players.

Sabine Pass, Louisiana

Shown at E3 and possibly the worst idea yet, but that's what we get. This is a mission where the terrorists have succeeded in one of their attacks and 4E is on the ground helping to mitigate the damage caused. Apparently only the pre-mission briefing at possibly last 1/4 or 1/5 of the level was shown, so there isn't much to talk about. If you haven't seen it, it involves a platforming section followed by a small sandbox area with 4-5 heavy enemies. The last portion of the mission is a chase. From watching various videos it seems like a chase with the engineer leader is scripted but it is possible to bypass the guards rather than kill them all as shown in the demo. It is likely the leader is running because of what you did and not because he spotted you specifically (as this is never the case even if the demo'er always reveals himself and goes foot-chase M&E)

Other missions confirmed seemed to be Philadelphia and Chicago from the same trailer above. There are few other locations that are in Central Asia but no solid "this is that place".

Does anyone remember that dumb video? I had the same reaction, because that was pure damage control. Even back when I didn't have too much a clue how stealth level design worked, I definitely knew it wasn't "pick the door with your playstyle on it". If you remember, instead of trying to bypass 6+ guards in the open, all of a sudden this convenient ledge is there that you can sneak around! Hopefully if this mission is still in the game, it won't work like that. That would just be lazy.

It seemed like they chose to do an explosive reveal over a stealthy one because I guess they didn't expect anyone to ever do one. But then there was the MGSV reveal a year later. Oh well.

But that's beside the point. From what I have read and seen in interviews, it sounds like the missions will be more sandboxes from which you can craft your own experience through your playstyle. There won't be walking in hallway with exposition --> three doors labeled assault/panther/stealth crafted specifically for your experience --> continue.

If you need to see it in action, watch the Abandoned Mill walkthrough that shows all three playstyles in the same playable area. There are probably many more options they didn't show.

This is good. The devs have gone on the record saying they constantly reiterate on map layout. They specifically have playtesters that are advocates for each playstyle and have to try to ensure that each level can accommodate all of them without compromising anything. Then on top of that they throw everyone at perfectionist mode and watch as every player regardless of playstyle has to slow themselves down to get anywhere.

Adam Sessler interviews lead game designer Richard Carillo | Adam Sessler interviews Maxime Beland

Adam Sessler interviews Maxime Beland at E3. This is a very good interview, period. I mean, Sessler breaks away from being torn apart from all the work just because of his anticipation of this game (in lieu of some other huge games from E3) and this interview which feels more like a conversation. Trust me, I've watched all versions of Beland talking about the game as the E3 demo plays and this is the most natural that he comes off in. It seems like there are plenty of navigation options because they try to make sure every part of the mission has a 2D pass (cover, other opportunities to break LOS that make sense in context of the map), a 3D pass (pipes, vents, etc.) followed by lighting (since all lights/shadows are dynamic and you can shoot/emp all the lights for all they care), it seems like these maps have a fair amount of more thought and care placed into them than Conviction probably did (likely because it had a binary stealth system anyway). He also speaks about how the three pillars of the game (combat, stealth, navigation) should constantly be challenged, either by enemy types or encounter design, as well as talking about how they craft levels in relation to how the playstyles work.

Spoiler

(Definitely not as bad as that PSP ad ...)

Co-op is a similar story, where most of the maps will open up to larger areas and feel more sandbox-like. The co-op devs have expressed their malcontent with most co-op experiences becoming a 'follow the leader' mentality where one player who knows what they are doing will do 95% of the work followed by telling his co-op partner what to do during segments where both players are required.

So they make the maps larger and constantly try to change the dynamic so it isn't all on the burden of one player. Players are able to separate freely and run around however they will while some portions can only be accessed with co-op moves such as boosts or even segments where the players are probably separated but have to leapfrog objectives from different locations while one of them covers the other. That plus missions where enemies might flood in looking for you, which means the map has to have just as many opportunities for stealth as in solo. Or even more when it comes to those maps that are instant-fail stealth.

And as you can see, level design in SvM is probably the most important factor. Well, besides light and shadow, but those are balanced separately on which flavour of SvM you want to play. You can see a lot of the maps rely on verticality. But more important is that when the game is played adversarial and asymmetrically, there will be places one side can go where the other can't. In the case of spies, they want to make sure they have a height advantage to look out or strike from. Not that the mercs are stuck to the ground but they usually are. They may only hold the ground but that means they have traps and other gadgets to rely on to help them combat the spies and their agility.

It will be interesting to see how the maps are laid out differently, or even the general layout to see where lines of sight are and what vertical spaces spies can move around in to get around mercs and their traps.

Unfortunately I don't have too much for specifics with co-op and SvM as they don't have much revealed even though they apparently came out in full force during E3 this year.

What about you GAF? Expecting any locations? Are you hoping the levels come out like Chaos Theory? Because frankly it'd be a shame if this ended up turning out like Hitman: Absolution - good mechanics and systems, shitty maps that don't support it.

I'm really hoping we get some standout missions. I don't know if we'll ever get the likes of anything like Bank from CT again though. That thing was almost a full-on sandbox playground more than anything else.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

I wonder if the PC port will be shit like Conviction.

Man, holy shit Conviction is a bad video game. Brings up nightmares just thinking about it.

 

[TheVisualizer]

nice work Sober

I'm there day one, if Deniable Ops is even half as fun as Conviction and Spies vs Mercs isn't a total disaster this should be worth the buy