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Split Over Donald Trump and Cut Off by Culture Wars, Evangelicals Despair

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Dalek

Member
Split Over Donald Trump and Cut Off by Culture Wars, Evangelicals Despair


21anxiousevangelicals1-superJumbo.jpg

GRIMES, Iowa — Betty and Dick Odgaard used to own the tiny church next door to their home. They had built it over 13 years into an art gallery, bistro, flower shop and framing service. They even rented out the chapel, with its bright stained glass windows, for social events.

But three years ago, the Odgaards refused to rent the quaint site to two gay men for a wedding, saying it would violate their religious beliefs about marriage. The men filed a civil rights complaint, and the Odgaards settled, paying a penalty because it is illegal to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation. After the controversy, regular customers stopped coming. Friends and family members stopped speaking to them. The Odgaards were vilified as bigots and haters.

But it was not long before the Odgaards found themselves cast as heroes as well. Senator Ted Cruz of Texas, then a Republican candidate for president, visited the Odgaards’ business and videotaped a sympathetic interview with them. They joined a troupe of business owners upheld as Christian martyrs in the nation’s culture wars: the cake baker, the florist and the photographers who stood up for their religious beliefs and lost legal battles. They received a standing ovation at a Cruz rally and signed on as “religious liberty ambassadors” in his campaign.

Now, a year later, the Odgaards and other conservative evangelicals interviewed in central Iowa say they feel as though they have been abandoned. Many say that they have no genuine champion in the presidential race and that the country has turned its back on them. Americans are leaving church, same-sex marriage is the law of the land, and the country has moved on to debating transgender rights. While other Americans are anxious about the economy, jobs and terrorism, conservative Christians say they fear for the nation’s very soul. Some worry that the nation has strayed so far that God’s punishment is imminent.

So, in a year where many voters see nothing but bad choices, many evangelicals feel deeply torn. Long a reliable Republican voting bloc, many are appalled to find Donald J. Trump their only alternative to Hillary Clinton. They say he has taken positions all over the map on same-sex couples and abortion and does not have the character to be president. Others are still bewildered that Mr. Trump defeated not only Mr. Cruz — a pastor’s son who made “religious liberty” a signature issue — but also half a dozen other conservative Christian contenders they would have gladly supported.

Nevertheless, polls show that the vast majority of evangelicals are now coalescing around Mr. Trump, largely out of fear that a President Clinton will appoint liberal Supreme Court justices.

The change in America seemed to happen so quickly that it felt like whiplash, the Odgaards said. One day they felt comfortably situated in the American majority, as Christians with shared beliefs in God, family and the Bible. They had never even imagined that two people of the same sex could marry.

Overnight, it seemed, they discovered that even in small-town Iowa they were outnumbered, isolated and unpopular. Everyone they knew seemed to have a gay relative or friend. Mr. Odgaard’s daughter from his first marriage disavowed her father’s actions on Facebook, and his gay second cousin will not speak to him. Even their own Mennonite congregation put out a statement saying that while their denomination opposes gay marriage, “not every congregation” or Mennonite does. Mrs. Odgaard, 64, the daughter of a Mennonite minister, was devastated.

About a year ago, the Odgaards sold Görtz Haus to Harvest Bible Chapel, a church start-up that had been meeting in rented quarters. Its senior pastor, Ryan Jorgenson, 36, leads Sunday services in sneakers and jeans. He was trained and sent to Des Moines three years ago by a fast-growing network of conservative evangelical churches based in Elgin, Ill., that believe the Bible is God’s inerrant word.

Mr. Jorgenson jumped at buying the Odgaards’ picturesque property on the busiest street in Grimes, a suburb of Des Moines. He converted the lower floor, where the flower shop once stood, into a children’s ministry, and installed soundproofing to insulate the children’s ruckus downstairs from the electric guitars and drums of the church’s worship band upstairs.

He liked the symbolism of converting a landmark site that had represented a defeat for conservative Christians into an outpost for preaching “God’s word, without apology,” he said. The church now draws up to 300 on a weekend, and is already outgrowing the space.

He expects that more and more Christians will, like the Odgaards, suffer “persecution” for their beliefs. He regularly visits the Capitol in Des Moines to pray with and lobby legislators with the Family Leader, a conservative Iowa group.

Continue reading the main story
Mr. Jorgenson was among many Iowa pastors who publicly supported Mr. Cruz, though not from the pulpit, and he is not sure if he will vote for Mr. Trump in November, even though Mr. Cruz has now said he will vote for Mr. Trump. He would not even consider voting for Hillary Clinton, the Democratic presidential nominee, and said he did not know anyone in his church who would. But asked how much hope he had that Mr. Trump would protect the religious liberty of conservative Christians, Mr. Jorgenson held his two fingers a quarter-inch apart.

“My hope is not ultimately in the government,” he said. “I am not of this world. Jesus is going to come back. He’s going to bring the perfect government. Until then, we live in a world of sin.”

Melissa and Tom Berkheimer started attending Mr. Jorgenson’s church after hearing him interviewed on Christian radio. They had become frustrated that their minister “watered down” his sermons and never said a word about same-sex marriage even after the Iowa Supreme Court legalized it in 2009.

She is an accountant, he a chemist, and they met in an online Christian chat room. They had something in common, aside from their faith: Mr. Berkheimer is half-Japanese, and Mrs. Berkheimer had lived in Japan and her children from her first marriage are half-Japanese.

Over dinner at a steakhouse recently, the Berkheimers said they had nothing against gay people — a refrain the Odgaards also repeatedly sounded.

“My brother was a homosexual,” Mrs. Berkheimer said. Her brother became a born-again Christian before he died of complications from AIDS many years ago, and she named her son after him, she said.


She said she became seriously alarmed about the nation in the past year as Congress failed to cut off funding for Planned Parenthood after an anti-abortion group released videos taken surreptitiously of the organization. The Berkheimers are in the “Never Trump” camp.

“I’m worried for America if we don’t turn away from abortion,” said Mrs. Berkheimer, who is 48. “I think our country is going to be punished, with a nuclear weapon. I don’t think you can mock God forever.”

She quickly added that she was worried she would sound crazy saying such things.

Really great article from the NY Times-I recommend reading it all.
 
“I’m worried for America if we don’t turn away from abortion,” said Mrs. Berkheimer, who is 48. “I think our country is going to be punished, with a nuclear weapon. I don’t think you can mock God forever.”

She quickly added that she was worried she would sound crazy saying such things.

Pro-Tip: If you think something sounds crazy when you say it, It's crazy.
 
God's punishment is already here and his name is Donald Trump. Here to punish all the Christians who pretend that he is in anyway aligned with Christian values.
 

Viewt

Member
The world is turning its back on them and leaving them behind. Ultimately, though, that's a good thing. They've been given, and will continue to be given, a seat at the table when they drop their hateful and harmful views and rhetoric. Until then, though? Sorry, guys - LGBT rights and equality are more important than your feelings.
 

Easy_D

never left the stone age
Won't somebody please think of the bigots?

Edit: God launching a nuke at the US. I've heard everything now :lol.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
Pro Tip for confused Evangelicals. God is punishing this country, he's punishing you fools for every time you do something ignorant, bigoted or unfair in his name. He's not going to drop a nuke on New York but he's certainly going to make sure you lose that lawsuit against a gay couple you turned down.
 

Beartruck

Member
"We love gay people, we just don't want them to have the same rights as everyone else".

People like this make me sick. Jesus forgave the people murdering him. You should be able to forgive some people that wanna throw a party and smooch.
 

Easy_D

never left the stone age
I just find it hilarious how it's abortion that does it, what about the countless non-believers who either don't practice religion at all or believe in something other than the super Christian God of America
 

Palmer_v1

Member
Oh, boo-fuckin'-hoo. Such an injustice that people are actually getting punished for being hateful scumbags.

Edit:

As others have said, maybe all the bad shit happening to you is God trying to tell you that he's actually totally cool with the LGBT crowd.
 

DedValve

Banned
I can't discriminate because I'm being discriminated for discriminating others?

Man fuck off. I hope your business is forever destroyed and all future endeavors a waste until you can pull your heads out your asses and behave like proper Christians rather than shit in the mouth of your god.
 
The shrinking of the fundamentalist influence seems to have come with the growing of the alt-right ridiculousness. So it's like one step forward, one step back.
 

CHC

Member
aRead this earlier this morning with my coffee in hand.

I think the article takes a pretty reasoned and even-handed (ie; non-condescending approach) to them, which is honestly refreshing, but even with that being the case my reaction is of course still: "fuck these people."

It goes so far beyond the "right" to practice your religion or whatever other fig leaf you want to use to disguise your distaste and fear of anything other than your own culture. They are free to do and feel whatever they want, ultimately, but it's sweet seeing them feeling alienated and left behind as the world progresses and the anachronistic nature of their views are left in the dust.

What makes me most sad is the young people. The idiots featured in that image will thankfully be dead in 20 years, but there is a whole new generation under 40 who fret for the future or Evangelism. I just hope they continue to decline into an increasingly irrelevant minority.
 

Piecake

Member
Why am I being persecuted for my beliefs that discriminate against other people??!? Its so unfair!

It may suck, but I am not quite sure why Evangelicals expect to be represented by one of the two candidates considering that Evangelicals are a small portion of the populace.
 

Stopdoor

Member
“I’m worried for America if we don’t turn away from abortion,” said Mrs. Berkheimer, who is 48. “I think our country is going to be punished, with a nuclear weapon. I don’t think you can mock God forever.”

Do these people think God can just commandeer nuclear weapons, or what...? Like if any country launches a nuclear weapon now, it must be God's will...?
 

atr0cious

Member
Wait, so slavery, the holocaust, those were nothing compared to a woman's right to choose in your god's eyes? Who are you praying to?
 

Anjin M

Member
I was impressed with the even handed tone of the article. No need for hyperbole when the subjects' own words and actions condemn them.
 

Guevara

Member
Kind of unbelievable.

They really want to reserve the right to meddle in the lives of gay people, women's healthcare, etc.
 
Basically, just a causality of progress and the changing times. Sure a lot of people felt this way when interracial couples became basically accepted, or when sex stopped becoming a taboo topic to discuss. Not to say those things are universally accepted and don't see criticism and opposition, but mostly the general public accept it while dismissing those who are against as either wrong, outdated, or close-minded (potentially worse). Gay marriage right and the continued empathy and discussion for LGBTQ individuals is this generation's big turning point. A lot of people who spent their whole life opposed to it are just going to have to go with it, be left behind, or become bitter that their way is basically dying.
 
Yeah I was reading this earlier and it was definitely an interesting looking into the perspective of right wing evangelicals, but ultimately all it did was reaffirm my view that I'm ok with these people being left behind. The world is changing whether they like it or not and as long as they try to undermine social progress and the rights of others, then it's hard for me to sympathize with them.
 

CHC

Member
The shrinking of the fundamentalist influence seems to have come with the growing of the alt-right ridiculousness. So it's like one step forward, one step back.

It is an interesting shift. Religious belief sort of being "traded in" for hokey pseudo-science, "facts" and "rationality" which all conveniently legitimize a rich / white / male dominated status quo.
 

DrArchon

Member
“I’m worried for America if we don’t turn away from abortion,” said Mrs. Berkheimer, who is 48. “I think our country is going to be punished, with a nuclear weapon. I don’t think you can mock God forever.”

I don't get this line of thinking. If God wanted to punish America for abortions being a thing, A) Why hasn't he done it already?, and B) Why isn't he punishing other countries?

Seriously, all it takes is two seconds of rational thought to be like "Oh wait, this is stupid."
 

ryseing

Member
The phrase "first marriage" is used an awful lot...

Don't they know divorce is frowned upon by the Bible?

(Note: I am not against divorce in any way)
 
Now, a year later, the Odgaards and other conservative evangelicals interviewed in central Iowa say they feel as though they have been abandoned. Many say that they have no genuine champion in the presidential race and that the country has turned its back on them.

Sounds to me like we are moving in the right direction, then!

Fuck Trump but I hope the drastic reduction of evangelical influence is here to say in the national race. Now we just need to focus in on the local level, where they do still hold significant power. Let's not forget these people are still all over the lower rungs of the ladder, trying to make life harder for their fellow citizens.
 
Do these people think God can just commandeer nuclear weapons, or what...? Like if any country launches a nuclear weapon now, it must be God's will...?

Most Evangelicals believe basically everything what happens is God's will and road to the end of the word he has planned, yes.
 

FelixOrion

Poet Centuriate
“I’m worried for America if we don’t turn away from abortion,” said Mrs. Berkheimer, who is 48. “I think our country is going to be punished, with a nuclear weapon. I don’t think you can mock God forever.”

What?! Metal God launches nukes? No...that can't be true...
 

Glix

Member
The bolded part in the OP is amazing.

Yeah, it happened overnight. Everyone just turned gay. Yesterday everything was fine!
 
Reminder to evangelicals, to paraphrase the author Rachel Held Evans, gay people being allowed the same rights as you is not the same as you losing rights and is certainly not the same as you being persecuted.

There are places in this world where Christians are being brutally persecuted, and the United States is not one of those places. However, the United States is a place where a person running on a campaign of religious intolerance and discrimination stands a fairly good chance at being elected President, and his target is not Christianity. Open your eyes to the evil you support.
 
I don't get this line of thinking. If God wanted to punish America for abortions being a thing, A) Why hasn't he done it already?, and B) Why isn't he punishing other countries?

Seriously, all it takes is two seconds of rational thought to be like "Oh wait, this is stupid."

Obviously God is waiting to see who is appointed to the Supreme Court before he signs off on that Salvation Bomb.
 

Chris R

Member
I don't get this line of thinking. If God wanted to punish America for abortions being a thing, A) Why hasn't he done it already?, and B) Why isn't he punishing other countries?

Seriously, all it takes is two seconds of rational thought to be like "Oh wait, this is stupid."

Critical thinking is not something these people do very often.
 

TimeKillr

Member
I have a hard time understanding the whole "God is going to punish America" thing.

I mean, I'm an atheist. I don't believe in anything except reality, really. I don't care about religion, but I also don't really care what you believe in, and I won't belittle you for your beliefs.

I grew up sort of catholic, all that stuff. I don't recall a single instance of god being a vengeful being, who smites down whoever doesn't apply to his beliefs. It's so puzzling to me - why would your deity "punish" your entire country because abortions are taking place? Why is your deity so insanely dangerous and such?

Is it something to do with specific branches of christianity? It's just... weird... god's going to punish america with a nuclear weapon.....?
 
I don't get this line of thinking. If God wanted to punish America for abortions being a thing, A) Why hasn't he done it already?, and B) Why isn't he punishing other countries?

Seriously, all it takes is two seconds of rational thought to be like "Oh wait, this is stupid."

God is essentially complicit in the murdering of these babies.
 
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