I know it sounds like a bs line, but basically it is something we are trained to look for. Most people carry a gun in their waistband without a holster. You can sometimes tell by an unusual bulge(insert joke), the way a person walks, constantly fidgeting with the bulge to keep it from falling(not in a holster remember), keeping a hand constantly on the buldge, etc.
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St. Louis Police Officer Shoots, Kills Teen During Pedestrian Check
- Thread starter Black Mamba
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I know it sounds like a bs line, but basically it is something we are trained to look for. Most people carry a gun in their waistband without a holster. You can sometimes tell by an unusual bulge(insert joke), the way a person walks, constantly fidgeting with the bulge to keep it from falling(not in a holster remember), keeping a hand constantly on the buldge, etc.
Mattlikewhoa
Member
You can't even walk around with food in your hands now?
Do I just walk down the streets, with my hands in the air yelling that I'm not armed!?
Pretty much this...
Do I just walk down the streets, with my hands in the air yelling that I'm not armed!?
Pretty much this...
BeatResetsTheWorld
Banned
I admire European police force more and more, every story like this. We don't know what happened, but what we do know is that everyone is terrified of the police, and the police are always terrified of the people so much so that they think they need Tony Stark Grade Equipment to deal with the public. Its just a vicious cycle.
Has police deaths raised in America..? At some staggering rate?
Drug use and crime was dropping pre-Drug war, no?
America has the highest # of people in prison, and the highest # of them being minorities. This is compared to china ffs, and the rest of the world.
Systematic problems in this country are doing nothing but creating this hostile enviornment to where police think they are in the military, that the people are just walking citations or out to murder them. Then, when they are so often seen killing people, people then are terrified.
A lot needs to be reworked, and the system is just not working. Whatever the situation is, I'm sure it could have been resolved without killing someone. It really is an american problem at this point.
Always with the bush jumping.
Has police deaths raised in America..? At some staggering rate?
Drug use and crime was dropping pre-Drug war, no?
America has the highest # of people in prison, and the highest # of them being minorities. This is compared to china ffs, and the rest of the world.
Systematic problems in this country are doing nothing but creating this hostile enviornment to where police think they are in the military, that the people are just walking citations or out to murder them. Then, when they are so often seen killing people, people then are terrified.
A lot needs to be reworked, and the system is just not working. Whatever the situation is, I'm sure it could have been resolved without killing someone. It really is an american problem at this point.
Lt. Col. Alfred Adkins
Always with the bush jumping.
That's the problem. These bad cops are giving the good cops a bad name and it is worsen when you have your PDs protecting them, and when you have many police officers putting on the "us against them" mentality. This is one factor to why so many people don't trust the police and that's just wrong. A person would be able to call the police if they want a difficult situation with their love-ones diffused and settle to calmness; a person should be able to walk the streets without fear of their own lives being at risk if the police pulls them over; people should expect the police to protect others and their constitutional rights and not the other way around. Bad things does happen in the UK but NEVER ON A REGULAR LEVEL as the US. There's no excuses and the only way for it to get better is by what you said... something need to drastically change and everyone need to accept and stick with it.
The problem is that we did trust police, and as a body, police abused that trust. That is why all officers need to have cameras that upload to third party clouds like Rialto PD. Who saw a drop in crime, and better policing immediately. Also, police need to be fired when they fuck up. Any other job in the world, when you make massive mistakes often, you're let go. Not a paid vacation. These are the biggest problems with the perception of police, whatever the public needs to do to get pressure going. But police punishment is ineffective and political. Police aren't afraid to make mistakes, because there are rarely repercussions. In the line of work, police need to have a concentration on doing things right. And not relying on reflexes and social issues alone.
Police have broken trust, and they need to earn it back. Cameras will do wonders, as its proven. Since good cops can never turn in bad cops, the cameras will have the backbone that officers don't seem to have.
The training is a large part of the problem. What the hell are police trained to do? We have so many veterans just shocked and appalled looking at the way police behavior is in their own country. Why did it get so out of control here...? Where is the threat that police are under?
OR,
Is it the type of crime that police have to police? Does certain type of crime, do nothing but divide communities and install mistrust of the police, due to the tactics needed to pursue crime..? (Drugs)
Yup.
Then we await forensic evidence. See is suspects gun was fired, see if a bullet can be recovered.
People are far to quick to jump to conclusions with stories like this. Not to say there isn't a structual racism problem that ties into police abuse of power and accountability, but still. Just jumping to conclusions isn't helping anything.
You literally have no idea what you're talking about. It would be comical but it's not rare to see someone claiming your first "point".
GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
I'm not giving him an excuse for shooting in the first place, or am I excusing him for turning the neighborhood into Hue circa 1968. I'm explaining the reason police fire until empty.
I personally think they need a lot better stress training. They want to wear fatigues, hold machine guns, and drive around in MRAPs, but they're not bothering with the training or the other hard shit of military life. They're cafeteria paramilitary. It drives me bananas.
888
Member
So here is my question to the people here that are unhappy with the original story. It seems like some of you are unhappy because he was questioned in the first place. The general basics of the story is the suspect ran, turned and shot at the officer who then returned fire. IF it turned out he did in fact do what is originally stated and was walking around with a gun, possibly illegally. Would you still be upset that he was questioned and happened to be black? It seems a lot of people are jumping the gun and condemning one side or the other on this. Being the climate of emotions in that area because of the Brown shooting, witnesses could be more apt to bend the truth from other motivations. At what point do police become useless to you? If witnesses are possibly going to cover for a criminal for another purpose or goal, all that will happen is possible good cops involved in some of these situations will be condemned for attempting to do their jobs and provide public safety.
Now if the officer did in fact shoot a man holding a sandwich then he deserves to be punished heavily. Either way it should be pretty easy to prove either way.
Now if the officer did in fact shoot a man holding a sandwich then he deserves to be punished heavily. Either way it should be pretty easy to prove either way.
I agree with this position to an extent, but surely you can understand why that puts black people in a frustrating position. . It puts them in the position where they can't cry racism in any situation except for those incredibly rare moments when someone is stupid enough to be extremely blatant about it, and yell "die blackie!" or something while firing his weapon. .
It means that black people are clearly subject to systemic racism, but if they point to any specific example which might prove it, we can usually come up with a plausible explanation to dismiss the claim. Again, racism is rarely so obvious that you can't come up with any other possible interpretation of the event.
You have no idea what you are talking about. You always shoot to kill not disarm.
I know you didn't give any excuses for that officer and was only highlighting a potential reason to why he fired until empty. Please don't be mistaken. I am on your side and, though it wasn't clear, was supporting you.
No you don't, you shoot to STOP the action that is a threat. Dying is an very unfortunate side effect in some cases.
Why don't cops simply shoot the weapons out of assailants' hands? Or shoot the part of the body that makes people fall asleep?
Nappuccino
Member
They should just shoot them with Cupid's bullets so they'll spread love to everyone.
Ideally, you don't shoot at all if the target is fleeing. Especially not if you have to empty your entire clip in an inhabited area.
But that's just me.
I wasn't mocking the OP - just the idea you can wing bad guys. We don't actually know if the dead kid was a bad guy. But I apologize, not in great taste anyway.
If it is found that the suspect ran away, fired at the cop and got killed then anyone yelling he got fatally shot at because racism is an idiot.
In situations where its a bit more ambiguous and no clear evidence is available then yes, I get your point.
888
Member
Wing them and then does that bullet magically stop? Or while trying to "Wing" a bad guy does it hit a child playing on a park? Aim for center mass to avoid other people being hit. It's amazing how many people on here suggest this without thinking of the fallout. Its already enough of a task to hit a moving target that is shooting back at you, let alone trying to aim to disarm.
I like this.
boiled goose
good with gravy
if you run from a cop you don't deserve to get shot.
if you shoot at a cop well then you will probably get shot and rightly so.
why is an off duty cop doing a pedestrian stop?
these questions need to be answered.
if you shoot at a cop well then you will probably get shot and rightly so.
why is an off duty cop doing a pedestrian stop?
these questions need to be answered.
GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
No problem man. It's a charged issue for a good reason, and it's hard to get a read through some things since there's no real "I'm being genuine" or "I'm being sarcastic" flag here and messages get mixed.
Like this one:
That's pretty much what he's saying. He's saying that it's ridiculous, which it is, for the reasons that you're pointing out. The issue is that there was someone (post #79) who presented it seriously. He was rattling that guy's cage. Again, there aren't flags for this and with NeoGAF being a mixed community, it's really hard to tell when people are meaning what they type, or when they're being sarcastic... just as it's hard to tell when people are being friendly or being mean.
kame-sennin
Member
What? Police do not shoot at one round per second. Here's a random dude emptying a Glock 17 in less than 3 seconds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NR...age: JSON Parse error: Unexpected EOF (url: h
The Glock 17:
with a double-stacked magazine (actual gun has 17 round capacity):
extremely common in the U.S.:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glock
Naw, they'll assume he's your hostage.
kame-sennin
Member
Disarm the police.
boiled goose
good with gravy
I do believe regular police should be disarmed. Call for armed reinforcements when required.
at this point that is a risk I'm willing to take than having an armed police. of course this should be accompanied by common sense gun regulations that I'm a majority of Americans support
Not going to happen, the American public is armed to the teeth and officers get shot at regularly. Even armed cops are often at a disadvantage with different types of weapons and ammo that police cannot use, but the public can. If there american public wasn't armed, it would make more sense, but we have the Second Amendment that isn't going anywhere.
boiled goose
good with gravy
The second amendment is irrelevant. Are bazookas legal? Grenades? If we only had hunting rifles and muskets it would be less if an issue. The right to bear arms can be interpreted in a way that makes sense.
Yes, we also have to reduce the number of guns in the country. I agree.the fact that getting a car is more difficult than getting a machine designed to kill humans is a problem. Additionally if there was actual interest in common sense regulation the government could impose more strict Manufacturing guidelines to gun makers. including the ones that are easier to track ID that can only be fired by the intended user etc.
the problem is that we have no interest in actually saving lives while maintaining the spirit of the Second Amendment it is all about money
stufte
Member
Lol it's the movies! Pew pew pew! Shoot the gun sandwich out of his hands! Pew pew!
Jmanunknown
Member
It depends on the local laws in that county because Missouri is open carry but, lots of counties have laws banning open carry.
No need to feel ashamed of being a police officer unless you personally have been acting like judge dredd. Recent events are indicative of a long history of abuse by cops towards minorities especially black males and it goes from the top to the bottom. The only reason people are noticing now is because their are a lot more cameras and what makes it worse is that crime is actually down statistically.
Their are lots of simple things that can be done to repair the damage or at least start the healing process. The first would be getting rid of the archaic drug laws. Getting tougher laws on weapons and who has access to weapons and having every police officer wearing a camera unless they have underlying circumstances that force them not to like for example undercover work. The sad part is that stuff should be in place now but, their is too much money to be made off of the drug laws, weapons, and the mass incarceration that is happening. All of it is fueled by money so it is gonna be extremely hard for anything to get done except maybe the camera's but, even that is a long shot.
We are going to have to revisit the second amendment. There is a reason that gun ownership works in other nations without a constant stream of all of us dying. It is being done incorrectly in america.The sooner we realize it, the better. Why aren't other nations worried about having to form militias to destroy a corrupt government?
There is nothing logical to the amendment article other than "its our right!" We've changed many of our rights to reflect common sense. This is one of them. It was a right to own human beings too. No sense in cherry picking the ones we've doubled down on.
All while Americans are terrified of everything, as well as the government. The government has invaded our lives, removed privacy, and has militarized the police force. All of this has been perfectly fine, met with no resistance. But if you literally try to compile a list of people that own firearms, online. Welp, thats the moment when tyranny is going to take over..? Not after we can't even protest, or the media is getting arrested.
We picked the wrong battle for the right to have guns. We've lost the independence that the guns would deliver via legislation and politics, not a governmental body of crooked actors coming to your door to take your rights.
these threads go:
1. America has a unique problem with guns that it can't solve because this one instance is one that can't be revisited ever. Although, many instances of the constitution have been amended or changed. This is the ONE that is completely hands off!
2. The entire world doesn't have this problem, yet has problems with organized crime, drugs, mafia, terrorists, etc. (Dare I say even more so than america, in some aspects..)
3. A country that is losing civil rights by the second is not allowing change to happen that would result in less people dying because of something on paper once - and the sad fear that this nation has that everything is out to get us. Spends more on its own military than other nations combined.
Its just ridiculous to not do anything and to know that in 10 years, lobbying will still be strong. And no progress will be made because Americans are sticking to 1 thing that is their right. While others just fly out the door.
There is nothing logical to the amendment article other than "its our right!" We've changed many of our rights to reflect common sense. This is one of them. It was a right to own human beings too. No sense in cherry picking the ones we've doubled down on.
All while Americans are terrified of everything, as well as the government. The government has invaded our lives, removed privacy, and has militarized the police force. All of this has been perfectly fine, met with no resistance. But if you literally try to compile a list of people that own firearms, online. Welp, thats the moment when tyranny is going to take over..? Not after we can't even protest, or the media is getting arrested.
We picked the wrong battle for the right to have guns. We've lost the independence that the guns would deliver via legislation and politics, not a governmental body of crooked actors coming to your door to take your rights.
these threads go:
1. America has a unique problem with guns that it can't solve because this one instance is one that can't be revisited ever. Although, many instances of the constitution have been amended or changed. This is the ONE that is completely hands off!
2. The entire world doesn't have this problem, yet has problems with organized crime, drugs, mafia, terrorists, etc. (Dare I say even more so than america, in some aspects..)
3. A country that is losing civil rights by the second is not allowing change to happen that would result in less people dying because of something on paper once - and the sad fear that this nation has that everything is out to get us. Spends more on its own military than other nations combined.
Its just ridiculous to not do anything and to know that in 10 years, lobbying will still be strong. And no progress will be made because Americans are sticking to 1 thing that is their right. While others just fly out the door.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
It's weird to me that, on a very general level of American conservatism, some people who are all about gun ownership and rights due to the second amendment are also the most forgiving of and willing to justify police murder like this. I thought that's what this was supposed to protect us from?
Given the amendment to the constitution can this happen? The Right to bear arms would also apply to police, no?
Its a cycle. 1. Americans are terrified of everything. 2. Police shoot people dead. 3. A person has to justify the shooting of the civilian, because it justifies their fear and ownership of weapons that makes the fear just that much more real, and they could have been in that officers boots shooting that unarmed black man who posed an obvious threat after jumping out of bushes.
Some european posters have posted in more eloquent ways about what they all witness. But its just mind numbing at this point. I feel like there is no point discussing american gun relations. Americans can't get their minds over their guns and violence. It is on paper (The paper again, that has an ability to be amended).
kame-sennin
Member
Yup yup yup. Keep guns at the station or maybe in the trunk of squad cars. Then we can talk about more restrictions on firearms for private citizens. Fewer guns, fewer deaths.
And for those saying it's too dangerous for police to be unarmed, most cops ride in squad cars. If they are taking fire, they can pull away to a safe distance and wait for backup.
Not in their capacity as law enforcement officers. They could keep guns at home, but not on duty.
And where are the statistics showing an increase in police deaths and out right gangland-style assaults on the precinct? Police are pretending its a war zone out there. Where is the data? I've seen an average of police deaths a year via the fallen peace officer website.
Cain and the nuke crew aren't running the streets. You don't need a SmartGun for a traffic stop. And why the hell are you doing traffic stops anyway? Oh yeah, because of quotas. All things point back to the way these systems are setup to just fail and create animosity between officers and the public. If we aren't seeing kingpins taking over suburbs as well as Simon Phoenix levels of violence against police, there is no need for a police to be armed to the teeth doing normal patrols.
AND, AND, AND, since we have OH so many good gun owners in our country, wont good, responsible, gun owners be there to step in for an emergency, until the Swat team arrives...?
Such contradictory bullshit about this issue. Certain areas will need certain armed visibility by police, I'd imagine. But most of those problems go away when you stop busting people in poor ass neighborhoods for pot. Why are they in the poor neighborhood to begin with? The government let the area slip into gang control, has made no effort to work out educational programs with people. Looked the other way as the CIA helped infuse drugs into these areas, and these populations represent the majority of the people in jail. No one gives a shit about these areas, unless you're talking about policing these people.
http://www.odmp.org/search/year
heres the site, you can search by year. Where the fuck is the surge that justifies militarization and treating us all like enemy combatants or tickets waiting to happen..?
On top of all of this, our Prison system just creates permanent guests to make private prisons wealthier. Shit is so obvious.
boiled goose
good with gravy
We don't even have to change it. All laws can be enforced and iinterpreted.
It doesn't say the right to own all arms, an infinitely large amount of weapons, etc.
I guess citizens should be allowed to stock their own nuclear warheads?
We take away your right to vote when you are a felon. Laws can be regulated.
Exactly. But according to gun folks, well.. thats just impossible! Our rights are set in stone its what the forefathers said!!!!
Meanwhile, members of the press are assaulted and arrested in Ferguson by the government.
"....well they were looting..."
boiled goose
good with gravy
Additionally most Americans Support gun regulations of some sort. The problem is money. Get money out of politics and laws might start making sense again
TheChocolateWar
Member
It says, and has been limited to say, those weapons that are necessary or standard fare for a well-regulated militia. I wouldn't say a well-regulated militia has or needs nuclear weapons.
kame-sennin
Member
Exactly. This is why you can't have an honest conversation about gun control without discussing race. The second amendment is meant to allow citizens to protect themselves with firearms against the state. The framers of the constitution were extremely clear about this in their writings. What's the most famous group to do this? The Black Panther Party. Ironically, when the BPP exercised their second amendment right to protect themselves from oppressive state violence in the form of police brutality, conservatives like Ronald Fucking Reagan went on a mad dash to write new gun control laws. That's how modern gun control laws first got on the books.
Historically, U.S. gun control has its birth just after the Civil War, during reconstruction. However, the laws only applied to the millions of emancipated black Americans. Southern whites were terrified that former slaves were going to come and get revenge. Of course, blacks never did, but that didn't stop southern white militias from acting on their fears and using their guns to massacre black citizens. The entire purpose of gun control legislation then, and now, is to limit the right of blacks to resist white supremacy. That's why urban areas with high concentrations of black and brown people have the strictest gun control laws - verging on outright bans.
So to address the original contradiction; the pro-second amendment activists we see today aren't particularly concerned with state tyranny. Rather, their actions are motivated by centuries old racial fears. That's why when we see actual state tyranny in the form of white police officers killing unarmed black men, second amendment activists remain conspicuously silent. The police today are simply fulfilling the role of southern white militias during reconstruction.
Mammoth Jones
Member
The issue isn't 2A. That's already regulated. Heavily in some areas. If we started enforcing our existing laws more, and locking repeat felons up, and dealing with the gang problems in this nation we'd be headed in the right direction.
I don't believe in an age where civil rights are being stripped that the answer is to take more away...
Their opinion magically shifts when the person shot is Black.
You're never going to get 3/4 of the U.S. to agree to repeal anything in the Bill of Rights. It's not going to happen. It's not worth wasting time worrying about a constitutional solution.
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