I thought circumstellar ring was ruled out in the beginning cuz of the age of this star?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Star exhibits strange light patterns which could be a sign of alien activity
- Thread starter gutshot
- Start date
- Status
I'd rather make the assumption that standard engineering and travel methods are the go. Light speed as a hard limit. Without exotic tech like wormholes which are only speculative at this stage.
We have probably about 1300 years before they could pick up an industrial spectroscopic signal, assuming earth transits the sun from their perspective.
And that's before we even begin to imagine what it might be and what motivations, if any, exist.
Aliens are capable of mistakes as well.
Machspeed007
Member
This photo shows direct imaging of 3 planets orbiting a star 129 light years away.
Sure, it doesn't seem like much but I can imagine an extraterrestrial civilisation capable of building Dyson Spheres having a much better imaging resolution.
We are already capable of characterising the planets like those above in terms of life sustainability. I bet that the ET civilisation we are talking about already have a more detailed knowledge of all surrounding exoplanets, including Earth.
Long story short, they already know that Earth has life on it and probably don't need to receive radio transmissions from Earth to already know that intelligent life is present here if they can see features like the Pyramids or the Great Wall. I mean, it's entirely possible that in few thousand years, given enough technological advancements, we could make out such features on planets closer to our solar system.
I sure hope that in our lifetime to actually see a "blue" planet (atmosphere and all). It would be the next best thing besides actually going there.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
Not saying it isn't possible for an advanced civilization, but a quick calculation tells me that in order to resolve such details at a distance of 1480 light years it would require 10 orders of magnitude more resolution than what was required to capture that image you quoted, so I'm not sure if it's the best comparison to make.
Generally speaking, I don't think it's correct to estimate the capabilities of an advanced civilization by simply taking anything accomplished by humanity and scaling it by a bazillion. That's usually not how physics works.
Badlucktroll
Member
Should we try and "reach out to them", if it is discovered that they are there? No matter how advanced they are, they would have similarities to us, like a brain, tolerances to heat and cold, the need to eat and drink, ect. What could they have evolved from? They almost certainly evolved from bacteria in water like all life on earth did.
Until humankind lives on multiple planets and we have means and capability to defend ourselves, no, fucking no contacting aliens.
There is no guarantees whatsoever any alien, no matter how advanced is friendly or even just neutral. Nor are there any guarantees they'd be anyway similar to us (especially if they're advanced, so that them being transaliens* (ie augmented, modified) is possible).
*Can't really call transalien aliens transhumans.
(And there ain't no aliens on that strange star. The Dyson sphere explanation is very, very unlikely. Fortunately.)
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
If they are that advanced just observing this probably alerted them to our presence.
Slayer-33
Liverpool-2
What would be the explanation then?
Not really. Because telescopes are passive sensors (like eyes), and there is no way, no way within limits of laws of physics detecting passive observation.
Now, if someone were stupid enough to beam a laser at "them", yeah, they could detect us. Though it would take decades or centuries or longer depending how far away "they" are (that is assuming the beam isn't stopped by dust and whatever else).
For now, we don't know. Most likely it is some previously unobserved phenomena.
Now, i don't know for sure but if it were even a partial Dyson sphere, we probably could detect it, or at least see hints that it might be that, more so than just a dimming star.
The thing about Dyson spheres is that they're primarily energy collection devices. You make one around a star, and use the inner surface to collect solar energy. Cover the whole star, you have effectively the entire solar output usable for whatever you want.
Of course, thermodynamics being what they're, you cannot get all the energy, a lot of it is going to be heat, and you have to get rid of that. The easiest way is to radiate it away from the outer surface... meaning it would be shining in some part of EM spectrum. As far as i know, this shadow that covers this odd star isn't doing that (though it might be we don't have a right type of observation directed at it).
Since constructing a Dyson sphere is an enormous task, logically anyone would use even an unfinished one for the intended purpose of collecting energy and probably helping with the construction, and would need to radiate the waste heat away (again, away from the sun, otherwise the radiators would merely collect extra heat), so even a partial Dyson sphere should be visible. Logically speaking.
(No one would really make a Dyson sphere though... since the material requirements would be enormous plus there'd be other issues (like keeping it from falling to the star). Far simpler to make a Dyson swarm, thousands upon thousands smaller satellites that "cover" the star. The thing is, i'm not sure they'd dim a star, nor am i sure if they'd be detectable like a "real" Dyson sphere. Most likely they'd be though.)
Badlucktroll
Member
Maybe like this
What would they be capable of, if even the dumbest of them is 1000x smarter than Einstein?
What would they be capable of, if even the dumbest of them is 1000x smarter than Einstein?
that's not how observing works
People's paranoia about aliens is laughable. Evolve to the point where you can create something like a dyson sphere, conquer the stars, and...give a shit about a primitive species on some distant rock millions of light years away? If they've managed to evolve to the point where a star is just some random object, then they'd likely have already realized that they aren't the only living species in the universe.
oreomunsta
Banned
But what if they're just like us? Growing as a species, branching out into the stars, building fantastical technologies because they found out how to, yet never encountering another form of sentient life?
If that was the case it is quite possible what we are seeing are merely remnants of their energy collecting endeavor and they've already moved up to the next dimensional plane of existence.
In other words, they've left the universe.
Optimism about aliens is fucking stupid. Better be safe than sorry.
There are no guarantees they think like humans, or that aliens even would be human-like in any way. For all we know, anyone reaching the stars might be little more than biological robot, intend on spreading to stars just because. If so, they surely would have no problem eliminating competition.
Of course they might be benevolent... but i really, really wouldn't bet on that. Neutral at best, and even then i wouldn't bet on that.
If life that can reach stars is rare, anyone capable of doing that is fucking tough. And anyone who is tough is potential competition. Best way to get rid of competition is to kill them before they even reach stars properly. And once they do, it is best to attack when they're not ready, before a MAD situation exists.
I don't oppose being in contact with aliens... provided humankind either has the advantage (ie we'd deal with less advanced, weaker aliens) or that we'd be at least equal (mutually assured destruction, meaning conflict is not worth it for either one, though trade etc. might be).
EDIT Were i an alien, i sure as hell would only deal with humankind only if i had a big gun pointed at them. Just in case. And i would assume they do the same. At that point, dialogue might be possible.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
USE SNIVELY'S SOAP
I am ready to convert to whatever form of alien Christianity they have. Just please let me keep my family.
If aliens were Christians I would fucking lose my mind. Confirmation of a christian god and aliens in one shot.
If you can build a Dyson's sphere, then chances are you have technology capable of seeing and detecting things millions and millions of light years away, including life.
You're using your human brain to rationalize things and you're jaded based on your human experiences and preconceptions of aliens. A species that evolves enough to be able to do something like creating a Dyson's sphere is clearly WAY more advanced than us. A species that is able to last that long has evolved beyond war, famine, disease, climate change, and things like that. Humanity has been around for a couple hundred thousand years. Do you think a species that has been around for a million or more would have the same issues/concerns that we have today, much less care enough about us to travel millions of light years out the way just to obliterate a primitive race? I say no.
okay jodie foster
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
You need to read up more on entanglement before spouting such nonsense.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
and then we find out that like half of them are muslims.
you're the reasonable friend hanging out with the person who literally has zero sense of danger
edit: Earth is thinking about ditching you or else we'll never meet any cute alien guys. Hell we think we're alone in the universe, except for God, so what is there to be afraid of, other than Satan?
DivineRage002
Member
If we reach the technological singularity by the end of the century (which is reasonable), we could be a couple hundred years away from a Dyson Sphere. The problem is that now they are another 1480 years ahead of that.
Gemüsepizza
Member
If those aliens are anything like us humans, we are fucked. We kill 50 billion animals every year because we deem them not worthy and because we want to eat their flesh and wear their skins. We murder and kill millions of our own for stupid reasons. We did not become the dominant species on this planet by being peaceful. Our whole history is a history of violence and conflict. It is absolutely reasonable to assume that an alien species, which became so powerful, is as violent as we are.
rokkerkory
Member
Lets build a wall just to be safe
Krappadizzle
Member
I hope it's aliens. Nice, friendly aliens.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
It's Always Sunny on KIC 8462852
oreomunsta
Banned
A space wall?.. We're gonna need to vote in Trump as President of Earth to get that approved!
paid for by the aliens i'm assuming.
HAH!
There is literally no chance we could defend ourselves. The fact that we haven't been destroyed already is proof of universal
Look at the declining birth rates in first world nations as an example.
Anything capable of wielding interstellar power on a massive scale and actually still wielding it would be the equivalent of a bored retiree tending a garden. There's simply no way the tomato is going to kill the gardener. Just take in the sun and ripen friends.
Badlucktroll
Member
New article
http://www.skeptic.com/reading_room/the-great-et-paradox/
No single observed star in the universe is anything like KIC 846285.
another newish article http://hotair.com/archives/2016/01/24/remember-that-weird-star-kic-8462852-yeah-its-probably-aliens/
http://www.skeptic.com/reading_room/the-great-et-paradox/
No single observed star in the universe is anything like KIC 846285.
another newish article http://hotair.com/archives/2016/01/24/remember-that-weird-star-kic-8462852-yeah-its-probably-aliens/
How much material is required to build a Dyson sphere? Is there even enough in our solar system?
As to whether an alien civilization 1400 light years would have observed us, if they are sufficiently advanced, it's pretty much guaranteed.
We have already mapped a sizable bubble around us. I looked up (and forgot) how many systems would be within 1400 light years of us but it wasn't some number that would be unseemly for a Dyson level alien race to map out.
Given that we can make pretty good observations on the habitability of distant planets, an alien race would probably be able to say that Earth is a prime candidate.
As to whether an alien civilization 1400 light years would have observed us, if they are sufficiently advanced, it's pretty much guaranteed.
We have already mapped a sizable bubble around us. I looked up (and forgot) how many systems would be within 1400 light years of us but it wasn't some number that would be unseemly for a Dyson level alien race to map out.
Given that we can make pretty good observations on the habitability of distant planets, an alien race would probably be able to say that Earth is a prime candidate.
That would depend on what material you're using. If it's a synthetic material, then you can probably manufacture quite a bit of it at "home," but most likely there wouldn't be enough on any one planet to match the scale of a star. You would probably need at least a few other planets that match those resources in order to build something that large.
Of course, if you're a super smart alien civilization, you've already done the research and realize how inefficient mining and transporting materials would be (let alone repairs). One of the only logical conclusions would have to be a self-replicating material that is able to adjust and grow based on limited resources.
FelixOrion
Poet Centuriate
Semi-related
you could build the dyson sphere to encompass the Earth's orbit too
or you could put a hole in the dyson sphere that lets some of the sun's energy escape and hit Earth's surface
Or it could be a dyson dome, which only captures half the sun's energy and is always on the far side of the sun, so it's never blocked from Earth
TheVampire
Banned
If we had star trek space ships we'd just send a ship over to check it out 
Valvrave yessssSemi-related
FelixOrion
Poet Centuriate
That'd take way more material to do.
Other options still probably lower the amount of light that hits the earth significantly. But, considering the show that post is talking about, the 'Dyson sphere' they talk about is like a modular system of domes that don't completely engulf the sun:
I'm still mad it didn't live up to the 'Geass in Space' hype :<
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
You have to do SOMETHING with the energy though, it can't just stay in the sphere, so one would imagine it would be picked up on. You'd have to use or release the energy before it's even completed.
The Elite
BOSS
Power an interstellar wormhole network.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked