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Star Wars: The Old Republic |OT2| In a F2Play galaxy far, far away
- Thread starter Cystm
- Start date
Ah I see. That would definitely make more sense.
BattleMonkey
Member
No those are sub only or you gotta buy it in the cartel market.
As others have said, it's really a poor f2p system, they really just want people to get pushed into subscribing. They are nickle and diming for stupid things like displaying your title or just a Legacy name even? Hiding head slots, extra UI bars? People were already complaining about it, as more details get out, the more folks will be vocal about it. Think they are really going about this wrong now.
I think one of the most interesting things about this is gonna be the credit market for these items. Say, you've got the Cartel Collector title. It seems to be pretty common, so like 100,000 credits max probably. But that throne? Several millions I'm sure. The relics will be expensive, I'm sure. The Camlost folks of the world won't even have to lift a finger past their monthly allotment.
So, there is a gun with a laser scope that uses your color crystal. Now I really, really, really, want a sniper rifle with that functionality. Although that may be one, it looks more like a shotgun to me. Nevermind, just noticed that is a vanguard haha, blaster rifle.
I love this. Bad ass.
I'd be okay with this if they weren't also limiting content so severely. I know, dead horse, but jesus BW, let me pay you for unlimited WZ access.
I had a former guildy who just resubbed to get his cartel coins who decided he wasn't gonna bother coming back at all since he will only get three warzones a week. Sucks 'cause he is probably the best player I've played with since launch and he loves SWTOR pvp but was really expecting them to provide some sort of warzone permanent unlock for a fee or something. I suppose he could buy weekly unlocks all the time but I think he was counting on getting away from a sub, even if it was a cheaper one.
It sucks for them because this might cost them in the beginning of F2P (the severe limits and purchase everything approach). I'm sure they'll adjust eventually, but that seems to be their achilles heel. They bungle the release and eventually fix it to some degree, but have already lost the thunder.
BW act like they want everything to add up to $15 or whatever price they have in their heads, instead of realizing that with F2P maybe the price should be going down, not up. I have to say, though, I'll never understand people being so up in arms about $15 a month.
BW act like they want everything to add up to $15 or whatever price they have in their heads, instead of realizing that with F2P maybe the price should be going down, not up. I have to say, though, I'll never understand people being so up in arms about $15 a month.
Yeah, I mean, I get the arguments. My feeling is it's just $15. If it's that missed you shouldn't be playing. Then again, I've played MMOs for over 10 years and had a sub most of it, so I suppose I have gotten over the feeling of urgency. There's some months I've gotten more than 15, and some like last month where I only logged in 5 times and didn't play a single FP, op, or WZ. It averages out to me.
To get back on topic: I like what they've done with the cosmetic side of F2P, though I expected there would be a lot more stuff. How hard is it to palette swap some items, or make some of the cooler armors adaptive or purchasable like purple crystals, the sorcerer's robe that everyone pays ungodly amounts for, and things of that sort. I want my sorc to be able to look like a powertech, or a vanguard, or a guardian. Give me another version of the CE outfit that looks so sweet for big money.
I am with Jaina on not being able to fathom charging for every little thing, and not giving some form of long term unlock for certain modes. I feel like they could easily do 3 or 6 months if they aren't comfortable with 1 year. I guess they figure most new folks who have never had things like hide headslot, etc, won't miss them so it won't be as big of a deal. I can't find any other justification.
To get back on topic: I like what they've done with the cosmetic side of F2P, though I expected there would be a lot more stuff. How hard is it to palette swap some items, or make some of the cooler armors adaptive or purchasable like purple crystals, the sorcerer's robe that everyone pays ungodly amounts for, and things of that sort. I want my sorc to be able to look like a powertech, or a vanguard, or a guardian. Give me another version of the CE outfit that looks so sweet for big money.
I am with Jaina on not being able to fathom charging for every little thing, and not giving some form of long term unlock for certain modes. I feel like they could easily do 3 or 6 months if they aren't comfortable with 1 year. I guess they figure most new folks who have never had things like hide headslot, etc, won't miss them so it won't be as big of a deal. I can't find any other justification.
I honestly don't see why they are going F2P. It seems like it was more for the free press sense so much is behind the paywall and the free trial was more than enough to give people a taste. I've been itching to come back, but it looks like they are just screwing over the people who bought the game so they can nickle-and-dime those who didn't.
Part of the reason, is I think they're trying to maximize the amount of money they can get from the people already playing the game right now.
BattleMonkey
Member
They will get a bunch of new customers through this though, though I don't think they are approaching it right as it just feels like they are making it a much more elaborate trial to try and push subscriptions still instead of depending on microtransactions. The limits are going to turn off many after what other games have offered and that will hurt in the long term. Also by making alot of the stuff only available through random booster packs is going to not sit well with many as well, but it obviously worked well for Bioware with Mass Effect 3, so they are copying that format. I'm sure they will make a ton from those segment of players who freely will toss ton of money on buying boosters to get specific items or unlock everything. Even those who subscribe already will probably have hardcore dumping ton of cash on buying boosters. But how do you not even have the ability to buy extra character slots? It feels like they are putting up walls just to entice subscriptions than really giving players choice of how to pay to play that most F2P have had.
At the same time part of it also feels kinda like they just didn't have enough to offer for a cash shop, as majority of it is just stuff currently in the game and just recolored and turned into adaptive formats. That's nice and all, but lets get some newer visuals into the game and not just skin swaps.
I'm a subber so its no big deal for me, but I think its gonna hurt, already guildies who planned on coming back have been completely turned off learning about the details and restrictions. While I have family like my cousin and his wife who are excited to play it when it goes f2p just because they care about just the story stuff and playing it as a coop game between them and friends, so the limits don't hamper them much.
That's a really interesting point, because I know a lot of people who are only interested in the story but were were turned off by the subscription. KOTOR/Mass Effect fans, basically. So they will come in and have a shit ton of content for free with little incentive to pay anything. (Maybe some boosters, but that's it.)
Then you have F2P hoppers who will want to try the game, but will be turned off by the limitations, and likely won't stick around.
It almost feels backwards, but I don't know how a game structured like SWTOR could get around that without major retooling.
Disheveled_Zen
Member
Guess I should probably sub so I don't lose out on the ~2k cartel coins I have waiting for me. Not going to get into my feelings on the whole f2p thing as quite a few people have already covered how I feel.
Anyone know how population on The Fatman is doing? All my repub chars are there and it seemed pretty healthy when I left, but that was a long time ago.
Anyone know how population on The Fatman is doing? All my repub chars are there and it seemed pretty healthy when I left, but that was a long time ago.
It's now folded into Prophecy of the Five, but it seemed to be doing pretty good the couple nights I got on my pub I leveled there. Might wanna check on your names though.
I'm debating on coming back or not for F2P. It depends a lot on if my friends come back and if we can enjoy the game with the restrictions in place. Locking UI bars behind a paywall is not really a good way of convincing me to come back. I totally understand locking content and items behind paywalls, even if I don't 100 agree with weekly unlocks and stuff, but UI? C'mon dude, seriously?
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
As far as I know you're going to the same number of hotbars we've had the entire time, 4. It's just the subscribers are getting 2 extra ones now. 4 is enough for most of your stuff. I'm only going to be using my extra 2 bars to put all my pets and vehicles on which shows it's completely a convenience thing and certainly not necessary to play the game properly.
Nope, based on the current setup on the PTS it looks like F2Pers only get 1 quickbar to start with. Which I really hope they change before this thing goes live.
The problem is the majority of SWTOR's players (according to exit surveys) do not share your sentiment and it's not because we can't afford $15 a month. A subscription makes me feel like I need to log in whenever I can or I am wasting money. The amount is irrelevant. I don't want or need that sort of pressure to play when there are so many other great games out there.
I was looking forward to SWTOR F2P but I'm not liking the model they are using. I'm okay with one-time unlocks that let me play at my own pace. I'm not okay with paying weekly subscription fees (WZ/FP/OP unlocks) or paying for basic UI features like hide helmet or extra quickbars.
They have completely missed the lesson from their original launch: SWTOR does not work as a subscription game. The best part of the game is leveling content, which they should not encourage people to rush through to get the most bang for their buck. They got the message that players do not want to pay a monthly subscription, but for some reason they think weekly subscriptions will be just fine.
A good F2P model for SWTOR would have been to give away act 1 for free and charge people per-class for act 2/3. They would be offering people content that is actually worth paying for, that people can play at their own pace, and they'd still be making a reasonable amount of profit.
It's possible they will make these changes after F2P launches and they get some feedback, but they continue the trend of messing up their first (and most important) offering. As a big proponent of F2P and someone that has spent hundreds on other F2P games, I'll be passing on SWTOR F2P until they get their shit together.
I'm basing this on Dulfy's info.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
It's true, they dropped everyone to F2P status on the PTS. I just logged in and I only had 1 toolbar. When I went to edit the UI it prompted me to unlock more in the store.
On my gunslinger at least I could probably put all the skills I use on 2 toolbars, 1 is just pointless. I suppose you can still rotate the skills on the toolbar on another page but that doesn't help very much unless you had something like a Naga that could macro the swap but that's stretching it.
On the plus side they gave us more money to play with the PTS. The carbon freezing chamber is pretty rad.
On my gunslinger at least I could probably put all the skills I use on 2 toolbars, 1 is just pointless. I suppose you can still rotate the skills on the toolbar on another page but that doesn't help very much unless you had something like a Naga that could macro the swap but that's stretching it.
On the plus side they gave us more money to play with the PTS. The carbon freezing chamber is pretty rad.
bloodforge
Member
Wow, making you pay for skill bars is just pathetic.
According to what exit surveys? Did they release those to the public?
I imagine part of these same exit surveys also asked what content kept them coming back for more. The story being free to all is not enough for everyone? Well, then you can pay as much as you want to play the other content areas of the game. Why is this too much? The vast majority of players that have spoken about wanting to check out the game have said their only major interest is the story. Which they are now getting for free. Any convenience or the other content areas can purchased in small quantities so that you don't have to feel like you are not getting your monies worth.
They need to define exactly what "Preferred status" is. If you bought a boxed copy at launch, as such you should be given this status. If you subbed for six of the game's eleven month's you should not be made to feel like someone coming into this game for nothing other than it's free and have sprint or matching armor to chest be something that you have to be limited from.
New players coming into this game and getting to check the game out for free should be content with the fact that they don't have to pay jack shit if they truly do not want to and still be capable of completing the story of the 1-50 game. If that isn't enough for you, shell out the micro amounts of cash to specifically unlock the content that is to your tastes.
Wow. That is fucking stupid.
It was mentioned multiple times when F2P was announced that it was the #1 feedback about why people were quitting that they got from their exit surveys.
Peter Moore interview said:
Free 1-50 is enough content for free. The problem is, they're then charging me for parts of the game that aren't worth paying for. I don't want to pay $5 to unlock action bars, I would rather pay $5 for actual content that has value. Those unlocks, while silly cashgrabs, are at least permanent unlocks. I have a much bigger problem with the WZ/FP/OPs passes. It's just another name for a subscription I'm not interesting in having.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
I agree with you on the first part but not on the second. If you want to PVP/FP/OP then those activities have value. The model is there for people who want to do one of those activities but don't care about the rest or for people who don't feel they play often enough to justify a sub so they pay when they have time to play.
Then again I don't have a problem with the subscription model and I've been playing MMOs for 10 years. I get my money's worth. I don't mind the move to a freemium model or the general trend of free to play but I don't agree with people who think they should get everything for free with a token 5 bucks here or there for new content. The content costs more than that to produce.
The nickle and diming for stuff like quickbars is a mistake though.
HarryDemeanor
Member
That is beyond stupid. I don't see the reasoning behind locking and paying for Quickbars. It just seems like they're just locking everything behind a pay wall. I'm surprised that the map isn't a microtransaction.
Hopefully they come to their senses regarding hotbars. Like I said, I could see content being restricted, and even though I don't like weekly passes I can see the logic behind it. Cannot see myself playing the game if I have to unlock basic UI functions though.
What really? My hot bars were all intact yesterday on the pts, even though I had no access to flashpoints. I'll have to check this out when I get home. Sorry I said that that was wrong, was just going off what I saw yesterday.
This actually makes the game unplayable in a F2P state if they stick with it...
This actually makes the game unplayable in a F2P state if they stick with it...
It should be that way. Logging on to the test server indicates otherwise, hopefully is just a bug? Or at most gets an intelligent solution by the time F2play actually launches.
Setting it to where you pay for 2 extra action bars on top of the default 4 is fine, but limiting players to 1 bar to force people to pay for the necessary 4 bars just to play is so fucking obscene.
Edit: I actually found a post on the official forums that wasn't mindless drivel:
SovereignConvict said:
From what I saw this morning that's how it is.
Cystm are you saying you've logged in since this morning and there's only one bar available period now? I had my four bars this morning, I'm sure of it. Why would they change it?
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
I logged in this afternoon, I had 1. I had 6 last night. Some time this afternoon they set everyone on the PTS to F2P status.
BattleMonkey
Member
And other stupid shit like having credit limits, and you can only get rid of it by being a subscriber. Really? I've never seen a MMO not let you just buy the option to get rid of that shit.
And yea the game is essentially unplayable with only 1 UI bar.
And yea the game is essentially unplayable with only 1 UI bar.
BattleMonkey
Member
They gonna charge to change graphics options? Or how about charging to let players use the map function.
*edit: Yea seriously, everyone should get on the forum PTS and make it clear that this is not cool at all. They are going to far with their restrictions.
*edit: Yea seriously, everyone should get on the forum PTS and make it clear that this is not cool at all. They are going to far with their restrictions.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Part of me thinks it's some sort of covert survey. Like they know that 1 is absurd but they're curious what people will say is the minimum they'd accept. Like a number of people on the forums are saying at least 2 would be usable and they're like "ok, it's 2....we would have gone as high as 4!".
I'm only half joking.
The fact that this restriction made it past the first person to suggest it without everyone else telling him to STFU just blows my mind.
The sad thing is seeing people claiming that they can play just fine with one bar. 8-/
The sad thing is seeing people claiming that they can play just fine with one bar. 8-/
Another video is up, singular action bar in all it's absurdity and ... A White Color Crystal.
Everything has been pretty good so far, but this action bar nonsense has got to fucking go.
Everything has been pretty good so far, but this action bar nonsense has got to fucking go.
Disheveled_Zen
Member
To me it really looks less and less like f2p and more like an extended "trial" that makes it so annoying you either stop taking up space on their servers or sub. Basically the same thing that AoC did with their f2p conversion.
Actually removing pieces of core functionality from a game unless you open your wallet...especially if you bought the game already....is just amazing to me.
Actually removing pieces of core functionality from a game unless you open your wallet...especially if you bought the game already....is just amazing to me.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Damn, I need to finish getting my Guardian to 50 so I can use my white crystal, it's just sitting in the bank
The Gizka is awesome.
So, I un-subbed sometime last week. Have 20~ days left on my account. I just haven't even wanted to play for the past month or so. With the degraded performance on my machine even on very low settings and the lack of dedication by my guild has really turned me off. I'm not sure if this is the end of me playing, but it's looking that way more and more that way every day.
You win, Cystm
Sure?
Kaz said something about Spag and Meatbags???
I'll probably be on this weekend, but for now it's raiding only for me. PvP just isn't getting me off anymore.