If # of 3pt shots made is the only metric that determines a good player than I guess yeah?
But how could you compare him to Bron when he's only been on a tear since 2 years ago?
Steph Curry Supernova
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But how could you compare him to Bron when he's only been on a tear since 2 years ago?
You know, sometimes injuries are funny. We're so used to timetables on these things and hearing the damage. It might be a simple sprain, sometimes 24 or 48 hrs of rest might do wonders. Hoping for that, its possible. Give him a week and rest his foot/ankle additionally. I can see a chance of him playing around game 3 or 4 of (likely) Clippers series.
It's a definite bummer of a start, but his ankle looked pretty decent. He hasn't had knee injury history at all, He'll definitely need a week, but then you can start considering what you can do. Holding out hope he works his way back into the 2016 playoff picture.
It's a definite bummer of a start, but his ankle looked pretty decent. He hasn't had knee injury history at all, He'll definitely need a week, but then you can start considering what you can do. Holding out hope he works his way back into the 2016 playoff picture.
Fennec
Member
If Basket Ball was all about 3pts, yes. But in the real world, James, Durant or Leonard are as good as him.
Frozenprince
Banned
400 3 pt shots should speak for itself...
400.
four. zero. zero.
The next closest guy that's not him or Klay is Sugar Ray at TWO SIXTY NINE.
If it was "just threes" it'd be one thing, the fool has 400.
FOUR HUNDRED. HOW IS THAT NOT STAGGERING?
400.
four. zero. zero.
The next closest guy that's not him or Klay is Sugar Ray at TWO SIXTY NINE.
If it was "just threes" it'd be one thing, the fool has 400.
FOUR HUNDRED. HOW IS THAT NOT STAGGERING?
Its amazing but not because he made 400 3s but because he was allowed to make 400 3s. Put Kyle Korver in those spots and he'll make 400 3s but the team is so good that it allows for Curry to be able to make 400 3s
Thats is always why Lebron is still the best player. Put Lebron on any squad in the league and they'll at worst be a playoff contender. I don't think Curry in Philly would've changed that much tbh.
Frozenprince
Banned
Can't live in a world where people just appreciate that a guy made 400 3pt shots.
That shit isn't even possible in a video game playing 12 minute quarters on rookie.
Put Steph on a team and it wouldn't change much? SMDH the greatest offensive threat in the history of basketball isn't good enough to drag a team to the playoffs? Come on now.
That shit isn't even possible in a video game playing 12 minute quarters on rookie.
Put Steph on a team and it wouldn't change much? SMDH the greatest offensive threat in the history of basketball isn't good enough to drag a team to the playoffs? Come on now.
DaMasta113
Member
Nope. I appreciate the fact that he made over 400 3pt shots. It's amazing and will be a record that will stand for at least another 20 years. But the fact is that his team has won two playoff games without him and will probably win one more to finish off the series in the next game. His team is already great without him.
Take Lebron off the Cavs and they might not even make the playoffs in the East. That's the difference.
jordan0386
Member
Let's stop talking like Curry isn't super valuable to the Warriors. Without him, they're a 47-55 win team. With him, they're a 73-9 team. Yeah, they've won 3 playoff games against the Rockets. I'm not discrediting the Warriors, because they're amazing, but if you don't think Curry is the reason for most of their greatness, I don't know what you're watching.
This might be the worst post in this thread.
Greatest shooter ever does not equal greatest offensive threat in the history of basketball, frozen.
I know he can't, I'm just taking about the shots themselves.
A lot of the shots only happen because he can dribble and make his own shot chances though...
That's a bad argument though since curry creates a ton of his shots!
I'd say the greatest offensive threat of all time, at their peaks, is between Shaq, MJ, and now Curry. Curry is doing it in an entirely different and new way.
All three have flaws. Jordan with the range. As everyone knows, he worked on this and got way better later in his career, but his bread and butter was breaking down a defense and going to work either mid-range or inside.
Shaq, while being the most dominant force in league history, was a huge liability at the free throw line, which is a part of the game no matter how you dice it, and obviously he was only a threat in the post.
Curry is small, and can be overpowered in the post, but his outside game is amazing. Yes, being the greatest shooter ever does equal being one of if not potentially the greatest offensive threat. What makes that valid is how Curry gets his shots. Let's stop acting like he isn't an amazing finisher, has some of if not the best handles in the league, has insane body control and coordination, and moves fantastically without the ball. His talent doesn't stop at being the greatest shooter. That's just what puts him over the top.
I agree with what you said. Except let's let curry do it for a longer period of time first. Jordan and shaqs peaks were 10 years.
So, this thread could very well be swamped with reaction to awful news tomorrow and people who watch enough basketball will know the following already, but let me take a moment to illuminate the rest of us. It's not like Curry can make 7 shots out of 10 in practice and the other guys can only knock down 6, it's not that Golden State has some sort of special tactic or personnel that empowers him. It's Stephen Curry, he's every bit as revolutionary a three point shooter as people make him out to be.
Three point shooters come in basically two forms. The first is the dedicated catch and shoot guy that can be seen running around screens without the ball and generally hanging out in a spot behind the three point line. Think late career Ray Allen, JJ Redick, and aforementioned Kyle Korver. They(the shooter and the team) work to get them open. The other kind is the superstar that can get by his man and/or is recognized as a scorer. They will walk into a three(like Durant), jab step and then pull up(Harden), or will be left open with the ball in their hands(Lebron). Their ability to get by their man dictates how they are guarded, leaving them room to take a shot. Other times, their role is such that they will take those shots regardless(Kobe, Westbrook etc).
What Curry has, and I'm not saying that it's an entirely new category, but it's plenty remarkable enough, is the unassisted three:
He can shoot almost any time. Shooting off the dribble seemingly doesn't put a dent in his percentages, which is crazy.
His dribble is good enough and his release is so fast that he can get a shot off against anyone no matter how he's defended, crazy again.
His range appears to be beyond anyone else, which is kind of just unfair.
So yea. Nothing to do but wait for tomorrow's news I guess.
Curry is a bigger offensive threat that than kareem, wilt, iceman, kobe, mailman, ivo etc etc etc etc. You know, players who sustained their offensive dominance for a decade or more?
2 years catapults a man over those other players. Just 2.
dragonyeuw
Member
You're kidding? Korver is a spot-up, catch and shoot type shooter relying on others to get him the ball in his spots. Curry makes a ton of 3's using the dribble to create space and make his own spots. This is hilariously off-base.
Why are we discussing longevity? I specifically mentioned "prime" - aka - if you take them at their very best. In a vacuum. Singularly. One season, for example. Curry literally transforms the floor with his ability. There is not one person who can do what he does and we've never seen it before.
No one here is trying to say that Curry is GOAT or even top 10 (or 15...or 20) of all time yet; at least, I'm not. Nor that he's done it for a long time. It's been two years. This conversation isn't even taking defense into account (to which Curry would lose in most discussions to other greats because of his relatively small size). But to deny his offensive talent seems so sour grapes.
That's what I'm saying. Steph has been sensational. But I think people have forgotten that he's done it for a year+ and others have done it for 10+ years. If curry puts up these numbers for the next 8-10 years, we should revisit the conversation.
DaMasta113
Member
This is the part that gets me. This year has to be the apex. It's unimaginable that he'll ever have a better year than this. But really, he's been shooting at this ridiculous clip for about two seasons. It's amazing that some people want to crown this guy over MJ, Kareem, LBJ, Duncan, Kobe, and all the other greats that had success for over a decade.
This one year is probably the greatest offensive season by anyone in history and that's an achievement that should be celebrated for a long time. But it's only one year, not a complete body of work.
Steph averaged 30.05 ppg this year. That's the 63rd highest of all time. Dude is excellent and had a phenomenal season. But even this season wasn't the most dominating offensive season of all time. Not even close. Even looking at WS metrics and other things, it's still not even really that close.
ppg is misleading
That's why I stated win shares as well.
dragonyeuw
Member
You need to look beyond PPG. His TS% is 67%, 50/40/90 shooting numbers which is basically the standard of marksmanship, he played 34 mins a night. His 3 point shooting was so uncanny that he can amass points very fast, blow out the team by the third quarter, and sit out the 4th in many instances. Its not just about the ppg, its the efficiency.
dragonyeuw
Member
To be fair, take Durant and put him on the Warriors, they win. He's never played on a team this potent. Heck, he got to the finals in 2012 and ran into a prime Lebron, and he wasnt nearly as good then as he is now.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
No. The reason Korver struggles in the playoffs versus the regular season is that he's not nearly the offensive player Curry is. If you put a body on him at all times he lacks the dribbling skills and quick release to make his own shot and he can't finish well in traffic. Also not a particularly good passer.
Korver is a great shooting role player who needs his team to get him open looks. Curry is a superstar who creates his own looks, plus makes his teammates better by drawing more defensive attention and being a good passer. Korver isn't even half the offensive player that Klay Thompson is, which is why he'll never come close to averaging that many makes in a season.
Your analysis is like comparing prime Shaq to Javale McGee just because they are both great dunkers.
DaMasta113
Member
Yup. All you have to do is hope the other team loses two of their stars and that a guy off your bench plays well enough to win Finals MVP.
Emerson's Essentia
Banned
Surprised we're not getting media coverage about Twitter-verse death threats in the direction of our fearless towel boy.
In my post, I stated win-shares as well. This stat takes into account your points created and compares it to the leagues points created. Steph's season was 37th of all time. There's really no metric you could use to say this was the greatest offensive season in NBA history.
Look, I'm not at all trying to say he's not an otherworldly, amazing talent. He's easily the best shooter I've ever seen. But there does seem to be a ton of recency bias in here.
dragonyeuw
Member
So what would Kevin Garnett and Chris Paul having better winshares seasons mean? For that matter, George Mikan is third on that list, ahead of most of Wilt and Kareems best seasons, ahead of MJ,ahead of Durant. So what does that mean in relation to your argument?
Winshares estimates how many wins a player is worth to a team, and can be calculated using offensive and defensive winshares. Obviously, Steph's defense isn't going to be worth many victories. But really, all that stat tells me is that the Warriors are still an extremely competitive team if you took Curry away( which they demonstrated yesterday, mind you the Rockets are pretty crappy). But in terms of scoring prowess, marksmanship, efficiency, what Curry did this year is insane. You have to consider how many points this guy could put up if he was playing 38 mpg like most superstars. Imagine if he was taking 15 3's a night at a 45% clip. The guy would be scoring over 20 points a game on 3's alone.
If you're talking one season what you're saying makes even less sense.
This season he was a bigger offensive threat than when the stilt averaged 50 points a game along with 25rpg?
Bigger than when Kobe averaged 35 or scored 9 straight 40 point games or 5 straight 50 point games or 81 in a single game?
Bigger than when MJ put up over 30 along with 8 assists and 8 rebounds a game?
Better than kareem and 35ppg with 16rpg?
Also...a players prime is not one year. Not crowning steph is not sour grapes, it's being realistic.
elrechazado
Banned
Let me help you on the advanced metrics: 3>2.
shortsFortallPeople
Banned
Sucks if curry is out for more than a game or two but GSW has been fortunate that he's been in great health as long as he has been. It's the reason they have him for cheap, he has a history with injuries.
Last year they could've, though. That warriors team lucked out that it was just Lebron + 8 hobos in the finals because they weren't playing very well at all.
Last year they could've, though. That warriors team lucked out that it was just Lebron + 8 hobos in the finals because they weren't playing very well at all.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
The healthy Cavs still don't beat the Warriors or the Spurs this year.
ages ago = one season now lmao
LyleLanley
Banned
Probably not but I wouldn't bet a lot of money against it. LeBron and a bunch of scrubs brought the Warriors to 6 last year.
There is an argument to be made but I'm not sure you are making it.
Curry is in fact having a historic all time great season. Maybe not best ever but in the conversation for the modern era.
It's not even debatable. The efficiency, the manner in which it was achieved and the teams reflection of that with the best record of all time testify to it.
You are just spamming incomplete pictures of a season or snippets of info from cherry picked parts of singular seasons.
I think there is an argument to be made for MJ, definitely old timers like Wilt and Russell and prime Shaq maybe even Kobe if you could make a stronger, fuller case. Though I always struggle with throwing guys like Wilt into the conversation because the game was so under developed then.
I'm not sure your making it effectively though.
How many more stats do you want to debunk? You keep going back to efficiency. His PER is 8th all time. Amazing, but not number 1. I'm not sure why you're even arguing with me here. I think Steph is an insanely talented basketball player. But he's not having the most dominant offensive season in NBA history. He's really not.
People thinking the Warriors are good without Curry...smh.
Don't mistake beating the totally broken Rockets with being good. Cavs without LeBron, Spurs without Leonard, OKC without Durant, Clips without Paul...all would beat the Rockets pretty easily.
The Warriors are done if Curry can't come back. All this talk about how he is just a shooter? Dude warps the entire court unlike any player ever has (although I know Wilt also had a similar effect). Just standing without the ball 35' from the basket the defense is compromised because they have to change their shape to account for it. Teams double him 40' from the basket leaving his teammates 4v3. Watching almost every game gives a simultaneous sense of comedy and disbelief to how other teams have to completely compromise themselves to stop him and AND THEY STILL CAN'T.
Not only is he the MVP this year and having one of the greatest offensive seasons of all time but he has to be considered hands-down the favorite to be the MVP again next year (that is the metric I use when I say he 'eclipsed' lebron). Not to mention he is the most popular player and has become the face of the NBA.
Don't mistake beating the totally broken Rockets with being good. Cavs without LeBron, Spurs without Leonard, OKC without Durant, Clips without Paul...all would beat the Rockets pretty easily.
The Warriors are done if Curry can't come back. All this talk about how he is just a shooter? Dude warps the entire court unlike any player ever has (although I know Wilt also had a similar effect). Just standing without the ball 35' from the basket the defense is compromised because they have to change their shape to account for it. Teams double him 40' from the basket leaving his teammates 4v3. Watching almost every game gives a simultaneous sense of comedy and disbelief to how other teams have to completely compromise themselves to stop him and AND THEY STILL CAN'T.
Not only is he the MVP this year and having one of the greatest offensive seasons of all time but he has to be considered hands-down the favorite to be the MVP again next year (that is the metric I use when I say he 'eclipsed' lebron). Not to mention he is the most popular player and has become the face of the NBA.
Im sure if you read the post I responded to you'd see that person was talking about a very narrow window. That poster said ever, not modern era. That means I can pick from any season I want to.
I didn't throw in the big o averaging a triple double. I didn't knock curry and his season. I'm simply putting it into perspective. There have been plenty of other seasons that have been as ridiculous as curry's.
I'm not spamming anything. Nothing is incomplete. The biggest reason people are ascending curry is because he hit 400 threes. If he'd hit 250 threes people wouldn't be running wild the way they are. What am I missing exactly?
Because of that, I'm allowed to show great feats within a season or show the craziness of a player putting up 50 a game.
Every great season had a "manner" in which it was achieved. What does that mean exactly? The manner in which he did it?
The team had nothing to do with that poster's statement.
elrechazado
Banned
My favorite stat is he's had one 3 blocked all year. ONE! And that's the thing everyone is trying their hardest to stop. Unbelievable skills.
Comparing Steph to Lebron is tough.
Lebron is turning 32 years old and has played 13 NBA seasons. Over that time he's averaged 27 ppg / 7 apg / 7 rpg (which is ridiculous).
Steph is 4 years younger. He's averaging 22/7/4 for his career. He stepped it up BIG TIME this year, but he needs a lot more of '15-'16 to end up better than Lebron.
Lebron is turning 32 years old and has played 13 NBA seasons. Over that time he's averaged 27 ppg / 7 apg / 7 rpg (which is ridiculous).
Steph is 4 years younger. He's averaging 22/7/4 for his career. He stepped it up BIG TIME this year, but he needs a lot more of '15-'16 to end up better than Lebron.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
I know the feeling. I sucked at Call of Duty for like a whole year, and then got good. I wanted to reset my average so damn bad. Shit was like .7 K/D average.
Curry never really sucked though, he's always been at least pretty good. He was MVP last year after all, and his career high even came a few years ago.
thehypocrite
Member
Why is Joseph Lacob posting on GAF instead of praying he didn't jinx Curry/dubs?
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
I know! It's not a 1=1 comparison. I sucked though.
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