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[LCfiner]

Wait... in between OS X and Linux?

So...

OS X = $129 Leopard, $159 Snow Leopard or $29 SL Upgrade

Linux = Free

Windows = $119 Upgrade, $199 Full is "in between"? How is $119 for an upgrade cheaper than $29? How is $199 cheaper than $159 or $129? And that's just for Home.

Where did Ballmer learn math? He'll deny all of Windows' competition can make a dent until the day they make such a huge dent that he has to notice. Denial is an interesting thing. It's one of the stages of grief you know. He does go through Anger a lot too. He should probably see a doctor or a psychiatrist.

i bet ya he was talking hardware prices.

 

[HarrisonBike]

Wait... in between OS X and Linux?

So...

OS X = $129 Leopard, $159 Snow Leopard or $29 SL Upgrade

Linux = Free

Windows = $119 Upgrade, $199 Full is "in between"? How is $119 for an upgrade cheaper than $29? How is $199 cheaper than $159 or $129? And that's just for Home.

Where did Ballmer learn math? He'll deny all of Windows' competition can make a dent until the day they make such a huge dent that he has to notice. Denial is an interesting thing. It's one of the stages of grief you know. He does go through Anger a lot too. He should probably see a doctor or a psychiatrist.

The vast, vast majority of Windows marketshare comes from people buying computers with Windows as the OS. Upgrading or switching operating systems is so beyond so much of the market as to make your point ridiculous.

 

[SnakeXs]

i bet ya he was talking hardware prices.

Windows and Linux hardware are different?

 

[CDProp]

AAPL: 163.39
MSFT: 23.52

Rounding error?

WTF

 

[Purkake4]

AAPL: 163.39
MSFT: 23.52

Rounding error?

 

[StoOgE]

This might be the best backfire thread in a while :lol

Oh goodcow. Go back to ordering weird shit off amazon and leave math to the adults.

Also, I still can't believe BRK.A is so fucking low. It was well over 100K a share for fucking ever.

 

[SlipperySlope]

Do you understand how stocks work?

He clearly doesn't. It's funny when people use stock price as an argument. They always look at the wrong number. It's hilarious every time.

 

[LCfiner]

Windows and Linux hardware are different?

again, I think Balmer was referring to most retail linux PCs being on the low end of the price scale. 400 dollar PCs with Linux being sold at walmart. low end netbooks. that stuff.

it just goes to show what a weird competition there is between Apple and MS. MS is a software company that's referring to hardware prices to combat Apple.

Meanwhile, Apple makes money on hardware but uses software as one of -- if not the main, differentiating factor between it and Windows PCs.

 

[bluescreenoflife]

AAPL: 163.39
MSFT: 23.52

Rounding error?

Now if you were being facetious that might have been funny. I'm going to go public with my very own software company and only split it into 4 shares! Suck it Gates!

 

[vangace]

GOOG: 443.05
AAPL: 163.39

Google is 3x better than Apple. What you gotta say about that then?!

This is truly pathetic, do you guys even know what determines these share prices.

 

[SnakeXs]

again, I think Balmer was referring to most retail linux PCs being on the low end of the price scale. 400 dollar PCs with Linux being sold at walmart. low end netbooks. that stuff.

it just goes to show what a weird competition there is between Apple and MS. MS is a software company that's referring to hardware prices to combat Apple.

Meanwhile, Apple makes money on hardware but uses software as one of -- if not the main, differentiating factor between it and Windows PCs.

Apple's boasted about it's hardware plenty, just never in raw power. Battery life, features, processes, environmental factors... It's just easier to pick something when you've got more ammo.

 

[WickedAngel]

This is truly pathetic, do you guys even know what determines these share prices.

He was being sarcastic. The OP wasn't.

 

[Chiggs]

Do you understand how stocks work?

.

 

[Vestal]

again, I think Balmer was referring to most retail linux PCs being on the low end of the price scale. 400 dollar PCs with Linux being sold at walmart. low end netbooks. that stuff.

it just goes to show what a weird competition there is between Apple and MS. MS is a software company that's referring to hardware prices to combat Apple.

Meanwhile, Apple makes money on hardware but uses software as one of -- if not the main, differentiating factor between it and Windows PCs.

But lets be BRUTALLY honest here. The only reason that Apple can use software mainly the OS as a differentiating factor is because of Apples Closed hardware mentality. It makes Apples life alot easier to not have to support 3rd party hardware. If Windows were made for a small range of target hardware, with microsoft writting or having direct input on drivers i can assure you that alot of the problems that plague some Windows machines would be none existant.

This is why we will never see OSX licensed outside of MAC hardware. It would be opening a can of worms.

 

[GaimeGuy]

This is truly pathetic, do you guys even know what determines these share prices.

oh oh, I know, they're a factual, fair reflection of what a company is worth, without irrationality or short-term expectations skewing anything.... right?! right?!

(The Efficient Market Hypothesis is a load of bullshit)

 

[LCfiner]

But lets be BRUTALLY honest here. The only reason that Apple can use software mainly the OS as a differentiating factor is because of Apples Closed hardware mentality. It makes Apples life alot easier to not have to support 3rd party hardware. If Windows were made for a small range of target hardware, with microsoft writting or having direct input on drivers i can assure you that alot of the problems that plague some Windows machines would be none existant.

This is why we will never see OSX licensed outside of MAC hardware. It would be opening a can of worms.

No, the reason we won't see OS X on other hardware is because Apple makes money selling hardware. They sell OS X and iLife and iWork suites for cheap because they know they've got your money on the iMac or macbook.

But, with that said, the OS is one of the main things that adds value to the purchase. I use a mac for OS X. so do many who have moved to the platform in recent years. it's a ridiculous improvement over Mac Classic.

For people who like the OS, it's not JUST about the lack of driver issues, it's the whole design of it. That makes it better than Windows (for some) even if they were to get a Windows machine with zero hardware and driver issues (and I don't think those issues are as bad now as they may have been 10 years ago)

 

[Vestal]

No, the reason we won't see OS X on other hardware is because Apple makes money selling hardware. They sell OS X and iLife and iWork suites for cheap because they know they've got your money on the iMac or macbook.

But, with that said, the OS is one of the main things that adds value to the purchase. I use a mac for OS X. so do many who have moved to the platform in recent years. it's a ridiculous improvement over Mac Classic.

For people who like the OS, it's not JUST about the lack of driver issues, it's the whole design of it. That makes it better than Windows (for some) even if they were to get a Windows machine with zero hardware and driver issues (and I don't think those issues are as bad now as they may have been 10 years ago)

Oh I am not taking anything away from OSX. Its a Solid OS with a great front end. My wife is the Mac lover in the house, and I find myself using her Macbook every now and then when I don't wana whip out my workstation laptop, or not run to my desktop. However it must be recognized that part of the reason why it works as such is due to Closed hardware, lack of legacy support, and small market share making it less of a target.

I have been clamoring for Microsoft to bite the bullet and go all 64bit, and kill off alot of the legacy code in windows that is detrimental to its progress. Offcourse I know it doesn't make bussiness sense since a large chunk of Microsofts bussiness comes from corporate users who are still using software written back in the late 90s.

I can come up with 1 prime example. The newspaper I work in, the principal software used for the newspaper was written for Win2k, and eventhough it has been updated yearly, it still is a PAIN in the arse to use under Vista due to some really shitty .NET programing, software security practices. Why? Because they don't rewrite they just bloat bloat bloat, like most corporate minded programmers do. Thankfully im not one of them, the software im responsible for, it got a nice facelift when we finally got our hands on vista, and its getting another treatment for Windows 7. Nothing special since most of the stuff just worked, but I took the time to rewrite a bunch of code to take advantage of the advances in .NET and some tricks I picked up along the way.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

It makes Apples life alot easier to not have to support 3rd party hardware. If Windows were made for a small range of target hardware, with microsoft writting or having direct input on drivers i can assure you that alot of the problems that plague some Windows machines would be none existant.

Never understood this argument. It works with all of Intel's hardware and any memory or hard drives you throw in it, and I've never seen a Mac not understand anything plugged in to its USB or Firewire ports. It pretty much supports every bit of 3rd party hardware Windows machines support except non-EFI video cards.

 

[SnakeXs]

But lets be BRUTALLY honest here. The only reason that Apple can use software mainly the OS as a differentiating factor is because of Apples Closed hardware mentality. It makes Apples life alot easier to not have to support 3rd party hardware. If Windows were made for a small range of target hardware, with microsoft writting or having direct input on drivers i can assure you that alot of the problems that plague some Windows machines would be none existant.

This is why we will never see OSX licensed outside of MAC hardware. It would be opening a can of worms.

They can use stability as a differentiating factor because of that, and even then not so much because most Windows instability doesn't come from modern, basic hardware inside a computer system. The rest of that is nonsense. OS X isn't entirely what it is because of the so called "closed" mentality.

Now legacy stuff I'll give you, but who's fault is that? If Apple's choice to nix decades old trash makes my computing experience better, I am all for it.

 

[Vestal]

Never understood this argument. It works with all of Intel's hardware and any memory or hard drives you throw in it, and I've never seen a Mac not understand anything plugged in to its USB or Firewire ports. It pretty much supports every bit of 3rd party hardware Windows machines support except non-EFI video cards.

Memory, Hard drives are never a problem in the support department. Lets talk about scsi cards, sound cards, older video cards, motherboards, different processors, old scanners ect ect.. Its when you throw the alphabet soup of hardware that you trully understand the magnitude of the beast.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Memory, Hard drives are never a problem in the support department. Lets talk about scsi cards, sound cards, older video cards, motherboards, different processors, old scanners ect ect.. Its when you throw the alphabet soup of hardware that you trully understand the magnitude of the beast.

Eh then we're just talking about legacy crap mostly. With laptops getting so popular lately, PC hardware is pretty much just as standard and similar to each other as ever.

 

[Vestal]

Now legacy stuff I'll give you, but who's fault is that? If Apple's choice to nix decades old trash makes my computing experience better, I am all for it.

Well apple could afford to nix legacy stuff. They were almost going out of bussiness before OSX.

Microsoft on the other hand, unfortunately can't afford to alienate Corporate users.

 

[SnakeXs]

Well apple could afford to nix legacy stuff. They were almost going out of bussiness before OSX.

Microsoft on the other hand, unfortunately can't afford to alienate Corporate users.

And who pays? Users. That's my point.

I'd care less if Microsoft at least began to do something about it. Give a timeline, press these ancient shifty software slaves to get with the times, do something.

 

[Vestal]

Eh then we're just talking about legacy crap mostly. With laptops getting so popular lately, PC hardware is pretty much just as standard and similar to each other as ever.

Oh how I wish you were right. The hardware difference between laptop manufactures can be night and Day.(Yes I hate you HP). Not the core elements as in CPU/Motherboard, thats basically 2 flavors of architecture with a curveball here and there, but the added peripherals, thats a freaking alphabet soup of crap.


Im just wondering what do you mean by pretty much standard. Even if two pieces of hardware LOOK exactly the same, the way the talk to the OS could be totally different.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

your premise is off. If this were true, no one would buy premium products of any type. clothes, cars, stereos, etc.

Only if Apple does not innovate and improve its products, while keeping prices high, will they fail.

but for the past decade, they've been consistently moving things forward to avoid that situation.



I'm saying that in 20 years, the mobile computer market will be the dominant market. unless MS is happy to give that away to RIM and Apple (maybe Palm?), they need to kick ass with WM 7 and beyond. they are woefully behind.

as long as that comes with a cpu ram and drive strong enough to run the latest games at 60 fps on a 2160p docking station!!

 

[Vestal]

And who pays? Users. That's my point.

I'd care less if Microsoft at least began to do something about it. Give a timeline, press these ancient shifty software slaves to get with the times, do something.

What do you think Windows 7 XP Mode is? Its IMO the first big step to finally start getting rid of legacy crap. Its a start, there is still a long way to go. But I must say its a pretty good start. Fooled around with it, with the Newspaper software I reference earlier and it worked like a charm.