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Stolen Credit Card Charge. AMEX Won't Refund The Charge.

RedAssedApe

RedAssedApe

Banned
Back in June I noticed a credit card charge for $366. I was notified right away because I have notifications turned on for any charges over $100. It was for some amusement park in Ohio called Cedar Point. I live in California. I immediately disputed the charge online. Ordered a replacement card and thought nothing of it as past experiences of this sort (albeit for much smaller charges) have been refunded no problem.

A week later I got a letter telling me that the merchant had provided "support/explanation of the charge" and that the $366 would be going back on my next statement. Amex website turned off my ability to dispute this again so I had to call in. The CSR person told me that they would investigate it again and this time with a "different team" (whatever that means). The charge gets taken off my account again.

Today I got a similar letter. This time they had an order invoice attached as "proof" from the merchant. Of what? I'm not sure as of course the merchant will have records of an order used with my card lol. But how is any of that relevant in a stolen credit card case?

Any tips from anyone who has had to deal with this or am I just on the hook for this and trying to keep doing this song and dance is a waste of my time? I thought I wasn't responsible for CC theft...but I guess that might not be the case?

Edit: Called them up again at the fraud number. They understood that this was mishandled as a dispute as opposed to a fraudulent charge. I think I'm good but they did say they need to investigate.
 
L

LiK

Member
Try calling them again to dispute again and see what they say. Escalate if you need to.
 
RedAssedApe

RedAssedApe

Banned
Zoe said:
An identity theft police report might help
Click to expand...

What does that entail? Amex knows I reported my card stolen and a new CC was issued. I didn't actually lose my card though. Someone just somehow got my CC information.

Probably just a coincidence but I'm wary of these chip reader things. I've had to replace two cards this year due to fraudulent charges. Both cards were like 15 years old.
 
K

KingV

Member
My guess is that it was denied because you started it as a dispute, when you need to do it as fraudulent charge.

They may or may not require a police report but will almost definitely require you to call them.
 
D

Dali

Member
The tickets are $75 two day and 38 for single day. You aren't in Ohio and disputed the charge as soon as you got the alert. It just seems odd they keep reversing the reversal when it's such a strange charge and you have immediate notice it was fraudulent. I'd put in the notice it was fraudulent again and hope this time it sticks.
 
D

Darren_z33

Member
TheCochese said:
That's some bullshit.

Find some proof you were in California that day, OP.
Click to expand...

This sounds like the best course of action. Go through your statements for the card in question. Hopefully you will have a charge on it for something you bought in Cali, the day the fraud occurred.
 
G

GoldenEye 007

Member
KingV said:
My guess is that it was denied because you started it as a dispute, when you need to do it as fraudulent charge.

They may or may not require a police report but will almost definitely require you to call them.
Click to expand...
My thinking. And police report seems standard. Generally they can just be done online.
 
D

Dali

Member
henhowc said:
What does that entail? Amex knows I reported my card stolen and a new CC was issued. I didn't actually lose my card though. Someone just somehow got my CC information.

Probably just a coincidence but I'm wary of these chip reader things. I've had to replace two cards this year due to fraudulent charges. Both cards were like 15 years old.
Click to expand...
Tell the police what happened. They create a police report that you can pick up in a couple of days for a small fee. You now have a copy of the police report to send to Amex.
 
A

apieceofstrange

Member
Few months back, someone tried to buy airline tickets on my Amex. There were 3 total charges, and I disputed as soon as I saw the notifications pop on my phone. Ultimately, one of the charges ended up posting for around ~200 some dollars and they credited me the amount right away after a short talk with their fraud team. Didn't have to file a police report or anything. You should 100% not be on the hook for that.
 
C

commish

Jason Kidd murdered my dog in cold blood!
I just want to chime in and say Cedar Point is awesome.

Good luck OP. Amex is usually top notch with this stuff. Well, tbh, all the major banks usually are when it comes to fraud. It's SUPER common.
 
B

banktree

Banned
KingV said:
My guess is that it was denied because you started it as a dispute, when you need to do it as fraudulent charge.

They may or may not require a police report but will almost definitely require you to call them.
Click to expand...

This. Bank's dispute departments are not Fraud departments. When you dispute something you are telling the bank "No, the merchant made a mistake, I should not have been charged this." The merchant has no idea it wasn't you that made that charge, and wins their case easily because it's not a billing error, that charge was legitmately made and they have the rights to that money.

Fraud of such a small amount doesn't get investigated by the bank, they'll just write off the charge and take it off your bill, and change your card number. Just make sure you're actually reporting the charge as fraudulent not a billing error.
 
C

Cat Party

Member
I think you just got a bad customer service rep. Keep trying and let them know you're pissed that they are making you keep calling them.
 
C

CDX

Member
Wow AMEX has always been awesome to me. It'd really suck if you have to go through a lot of crap just to get a fraudulent charge removed.



O Canada Our Home and Native Land said:
Could be because you might be using the wrong terminology? Don't ask for refund or chargeback. Tell them it's a fraudulent charge and you didn't go to Ohio.
Click to expand...
I hope it's just something like this.
 
J

jph139

Member
What does the order invoice say on it? Was it the purchase of tickets/items in the physical park, or of tickets online? Were there any phone numbers, addresses, or other identifying details listed? How, specifically, did you dispute the charge - as an inaccurate charge or as a fraudulent charge?

Lots of factors at play. Probably just an overly judicious fraud department.

Source: I work in a not particularly judicious fraud department.
 
RedAssedApe

RedAssedApe

Banned
I think you guys might be right.

I didn't mention this in my post but I actually reported the card stolen first and the person I spoke to advised me to dispute the charge online. So maybe I fucked up by listening to him.

Also mentioned the same about having my card stolen after I called them after the first letter.

AMEX has been great to me in the past. I'll try calling again.
 
K

krae_man

Member
I know where I work, customers dispute legitimate charges and get away with it all the time.

I don't understand how you could be denied disputing legitimate fraud unless you didn't do it quick enough(not applicable in this case).
 
A

AMUSIX

Member
Read the whole thread, and the OP still didn't say how his day at Cedar Point was...like, did he even ride Gatekeeper?
 
Hari Seldon

Hari Seldon

Member
Make sure you say the words "fraudulent". Like when you order from McDonald's you have to learn the button press sequence to ensure they don't fuck up.
 
RedAssedApe

RedAssedApe

Banned
I thought I was pretty clear when I called them that it was fraudulent charge. The CSR even said he could see my stolen card report. I thought that's what he meant when he said he was going to have "another team" investigate it.

Sounds like my bad. I think they need to remove the "No knowledge of transaction or payment" selection for when you file a dispute though.
 
G

Grizzle_Dat

Banned
Did you loose your Creditcard or did you loose the number ?

What it sounds like is that the chipped card was swiped in person and if you still have the card in your possession they are not going to refund the purchase.

Thieves can create a magnetic strip that mimics your number but they can't duplicate the chip. so the important points to find out from AMEX is

1) was the card used in person
2) was the chip used

If this was an internet purchase I can't understand why they would not refund, amex has taken care of every fraudulent charge I have been hit with, sometimes several within 6 months.
 
RedAssedApe

RedAssedApe

Banned
AMUSIX said:
Read the whole thread, and the OP still didn't say how his day at Cedar Point was...like, did he even ride Gatekeeper?
Click to expand...

You'll have to ask Frank, Marcell, Ashley, Michelle, Kisha, and Jessie.

Apparently I bought six tickets and none of them were for me. This place puts your name on the tickets I guess?
 
RedAssedApe

RedAssedApe

Banned
Someone had the number. This charge was made online. I did not lose the card. I did order a replacement and cut up the old one as instructed.

Grizzle_Dat said:
Did you loose your Creditcard or did you loose the number ?

What it sounds like is that the chipped card was swiped in person and if you still have the card in your possession they are not going to refund the purchase.

Thieves can create a magnetic strip that mimics your number but they can't duplicate the chip. so the important points to find out from AMEX is

1) was the card used in person
2) was the chip used

If this was an internet purchase I can't understand why they would not refund, amex has taken care of every fraudulent charge I have been hit with, sometimes several within 6 months.
Click to expand...
 
Ancient Gray

Ancient Gray

Member
Grizzle_Dat said:
Did you loose your Creditcard or did you loose the number ?

What it sounds like is that the chipped card was swiped in person and if you still have the card in your possession they are not going to refund the purchase.

Thieves can create a magnetic strip that mimics your number but they can't duplicate the chip. so the important points to find out from AMEX is

1) was the card used in person
2) was the chip used

If this was an internet purchase I can't understand why they would not refund, amex has taken care of every fraudulent charge I have been hit with, sometimes several within 6 months.
Click to expand...

I worked in fraud and we refunded swiped counterfeit card purchases all the time.
 
C

CDX

Member
henhowc said:
I think you guys might be right.

I didn't mention this in my post but I actually reported the card stolen first and the person I spoke to advised me to dispute the charge online. So maybe I fucked up by listening to him.

Also mentioned the same about having my card stolen after I called them after the first letter.

AMEX has been great to me in the past. I'll try calling again.
Click to expand...

Ancient Gray said:
If the card was lost/stolen they should've transferred you to the fraud department. Bad CSR. Bad!
Click to expand...

Yeah, it seems like that first CSR messed up.

Hopefully it all sorts itself out pretty easily and quickly.
 
S

sangreal

Member
Seriously though, if they are giving you the run around go through the CFPB. They will get AMEX's attention and put you in touch with the right people. This should be an easy problem to solve, but you've already been through the process twice now
 
SDCowboy

SDCowboy

Member
sangreal said:
Seriously though, if they are giving you the run around go through the CFPB. They will get AMEX's attention and put you in touch with the right people. This should be an easy problem to solve, but you've already been through the process twice now
Click to expand...

Agreed. It seems very odd that wasn't a very quick fix.
 
RedAssedApe

RedAssedApe

Banned
on the phone right now with fraud number. lady was super apologetic. transferred to fraud team. talked to a guy saying that they will look into it and remove the charge.

blah. hopefully end of this saga. but they said that last time too lol
 
S

Syriel

Member
sangreal said:
escalate, etc. but in the meantime write them a physical letter as the law prescribes. Make sure you say it is unauthorized and not some other reason for dispute

https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0219-disputing-credit-card-charges

You can also file a complaint with the CFPB and they will help you

https://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/
Click to expand...

KingV said:
My guess is that it was denied because you started it as a dispute, when you need to do it as fraudulent charge.

They may or may not require a police report but will almost definitely require you to call them.
Click to expand...

The bolded.
 
M

Mammoth Jones

Member
henhowc said:
on the phone right now with fraud number. lady was super apologetic. transferred to fraud team. talked to a guy saying that they will look into it and remove the charge.

blah. hopefully end of this saga. but they said that last time too lol
Click to expand...

I mean, it's a big ass company with many departments. If you say "dispute" it's an entirely different process.

"There's a fraudulent charge on my account. I did not authorize this purchase."
 
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