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Street Fighter V |OTVII| New Generation - Connection To Haters Was Lost
- Thread starter Reizo Ryuu
- Start date
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I wonder how this game would feel if it had a genuine Burst system.
CountBlack
Member
Yea I would like there to be another defensive mechanic.. not sure what though. Just something so you don't feel so helpless against super aggressive characters.
That's kinda what Bison's V-Reversal looks like
. I think it'd be too strong on defensive characters like Sim/Guile though. Imagine Gief working so hard to finally get in on Sim, then gets burst'd during a jump in or hit confirmI actually suggested something like this a while back. I think V-Gauge needs to be given more uses, and since v-reversals are pretty useless atm spending a bar or two for a more generalized defensive burst might be better.
There should be a "delete Laura" button. That's all the defense I need to be satisfied.
Rickenslacker
Banned
In regards to CCs, I think they end up doing more harm than good. The concept of making certain specials especially risky by allowing you to get a CC combo out of them is fine, but in practice just means you get one extra heavy in so whatever, and I think they end up making neutral feel less satisfying as it ends up disproportionately punishing the person on the receiving end.
TheSpoiler
Member
A better rising option would help greatly.
Honestly think this is one of the biggest problems. Knockdowns lead to repeat situations, every option you have is easy to account for with frame trapping buttons so that the defender is immediately put into a guessing situation right after they've been knocked down.
Not with Alex. He's a good guy that lets you compose yourself and get back into neutral after he gets in and grabs you, unlike those other icky grapplers.
Yea I would like there to be another defensive mechanic.. not sure what though. Just something so you don't feel so helpless against super aggressive characters.
That's kinda what Bison's V-Reversal looks like
The only thing that mechanically prevents V reversals being buffed into alpha counter status is the fact that some v reversals dont knock down and some arent physical attacks. If they made v reversals unthrowable that alone would be a miracle for half the cast. Considering that some 3 bar v trigger characters wont ever see a v trigger if they v reversal just once in a round, theres no reason for v reversals to be turbo ass.
Lol. Confirms my theory. Good guys in sf5 finish bottom 5.
CountBlack
Member
If they were to make V-Reversals unthrowable, it'd be cool for there to be a V-Reversal counter mechanic if you call it then. Like grabbing someones burst or rejecting a blitz shield type of thing.
CountBlack
Member
nah hold dat
TheSpoiler
Member
Necalli is honest unga
Zombegoast
Member
spazchicken
Member
Man, I'm still salty over the knee jerk reaction nerfs because Infiltration was winning. Now Nash is on most people's bottom-5 list.
I don't think anyone disagrees (obviously even Capcom) that they went too far. He never had defense to begin with and they made it even weaker on multiple counts. They said that they wanted him to be the offensive yin to Guile's defensive yang in the notes but his offense isn't on Guile's level of defense.
I just don't think there was ever anything ridiculous about Nash like there was with Mika and now Laura and Urien for instance.
So now come April (May really) they're going to pull back some of the mistakes they made to him and other characters and I'm like Capcom please get it together. I wonder how much further the nerfs would have gotten with this upcoming patch had Infiltration still been using Nash.
Another note, I think most can also agree that they did Ryu pretty dirty as well with the nerfs. This is what I hear with Daigo dropping him ect. Ryu is Mr. Street Fighter. Don't touch him. Lift or lower everyone else to his level. You need a control or axis and Ryu should be it. These are just my thoughts, I'm obviously no expert.
I don't think anyone disagrees (obviously even Capcom) that they went too far. He never had defense to begin with and they made it even weaker on multiple counts. They said that they wanted him to be the offensive yin to Guile's defensive yang in the notes but his offense isn't on Guile's level of defense.
I just don't think there was ever anything ridiculous about Nash like there was with Mika and now Laura and Urien for instance.
So now come April (May really) they're going to pull back some of the mistakes they made to him and other characters and I'm like Capcom please get it together. I wonder how much further the nerfs would have gotten with this upcoming patch had Infiltration still been using Nash.
Another note, I think most can also agree that they did Ryu pretty dirty as well with the nerfs. This is what I hear with Daigo dropping him ect. Ryu is Mr. Street Fighter. Don't touch him. Lift or lower everyone else to his level. You need a control or axis and Ryu should be it. These are just my thoughts, I'm obviously no expert.
IIRC in Alpha 2 not all counters were physical attacks anyway
I remember even SPDing some of them, with a good read and a lot of luck
dunno alpha 3
it's dumb how little V-Bar some V-skills charge. Meanwhile Necalli can spam seismo and get V-trigger super soon
..... Fuck you I can't argue that.
It wasn't just that he was winning, he had two very big problems:
a) His dash-everywhere playstyle was really annoying and unfun to play against. The forward dash was difficult to react to because of the invisible startup frames and the slippery style really didn't make sense with a sonic-boom chucking defensive character kit.
b) Nash and Chun were gatekeeping a large portion of the bottom-tier cast in S1. If you got destroyed by one of those two, it wasn't really worth playing the character even if you had good matchups against a lot of the other high tier characters. I don't believe it's an accident that these two were unceremoniously dumpstered, and they'll likely be toned up bit by bit over time to avoid a risk of S1 happening all over again.
Rose's was a grab she could combo from.
Interficium
Banned
Yeah, they should have given everyone anti-air st.lp and anti-anti-air j.lk, that would have been tons of fun /s
If that's all they touched, he would still be good.
I'm fine with them being completely unthrowable without a counter measure. You can still beat the wake up v reversal input with a throw on oki. It would really just give some characters breathing room in neutral. If anything reduce the range and get rid of some of the invincibility towards the end of the animation and make them whiff punishable. It balances out with 2 bar characters having less get out of jail cards meanwhile 3 bar characters get the benefit of at least being able to v reversal once more per round if it's looking like building a full v bar isnt' going to happen. Plus you also have to consider capcom's logistics in implementing universal changes. They're far more likely to implement a change that doesn't call for new animations or inputs or effect or anything that takes any kind of actual work.
You're right. I forgot about a few of the 'other' a-counters. I think that may have been the reason they made two different alpha counters in A2.
TheSpoiler
Member
Daigo isn't dropping Ryu anymore. He thinks Ryu is going to be mid tier. But I bet you he'll pocket a nice Guile on the side.
SolarPowered
Member
Same with Chun. They could have slightly nerfed a few of her buttons, reduced how long her v-trigger state lasts and called it a day, but Capcom went overboard on Chun, Ryu and Nash nerfs. So far Urien is the character they've adjusted most reasonably.
Become Bonchan or die.
Nemesis121
Member
Originally they stated no nerfs, just buffs to the weaker characters, had they stuck to this plan game could have been well rounded, instead they nerf characters that needed buffs, and buff characters that needed nothing..
A good chunk of the S1 nerfs were necessary. "All buffs and no nerfs" was never realistic, and I'm glad they didn't stick to that plan.
TheSpoiler
Member
How would that even work? Do people not understand that nerfs are necessary? Hell, people begged for Ryu, Chun, Ken, and Mika nerfs. Some of y'all have some straight up short term memory but people, maybe not here exclusively, whined about the top tiers and called for their heads.
SolarPowered
Member
Are you seriously forgetting the nerfs for characters that needed BUFFS? Season 2 was a mess even it made some genuinely good improvements (Gief and Rashid come to mind).
Eh
They went way overboard on nerfs. Like, it got to the point that their nerf spree brought down both top AND bottom tier characters because they had an idea of how they'd like the game to play instead of buffing characters to compete in a game that people were already enjoying (despite meterless DPs and Chun/shoto madness)
2.5 (or 2.1 whatever) clearly states otherwise though. Combofiend even said in the most recent blog that they are sticking to thier vision of "buffing" the weak characters and I think that's highlighted in the upcoming patch. Vega especially has crazy buffs and I'm looking forward to see what people do with him.
I know, I was specifically replying to the "all buffs no nerfs" mentality.
This new patch is more in line with what I'd thought they'd do with the original patch.
TheSpoiler
Member
S2 was a beta. I'm almost certain they did this on purpose to gauge the reaction to things.
Next time just run a beta or a loketest or some shit, jeez.
sixteen-bit
Member
Chun nerfs just exposed all the bad Chun players.
Ricki on blast?
SolarPowered
Member
I find it ironic that their vision for how season 2 should be played also ended up making defense into an issue that we'll probably be talking about all the way until december thanks to the v-reversal and white life nerfs too. Season one was pretty fun aside from some very specific characters and certain cost free meterless moves that could shut down offensive (which is necessary in SFV) play in a big way. It would have been better for everyone if they'd just buffed characters to compete in season 1 SFV instead of trying to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Should have read more carefully.
Just make a SFV endless beta on steam. Let the console players whine. It'll still be good for the game to have the beta.
ah yeah
Should have read more carefully.
This
Just make a SFV endless beta on steam. Let the console players whine. It'll still be good for the game to have the beta.
Yeah, it seems like they wanted to test the waters with this current patch and when it received a lukewarm reception they worked on a new one much closer to thier vision. Or the Japan and US teams are having political and communication issues again and it affected the patch. Knowing Capcom, it's most likely the latter.
I personally don't like loketests or 2 weeks beta's etc. as I don't feel it's enough time for people to get thier hands on the game and would make irrational decisions on whether it was good or bad. On the other hand, I also think 4 months is too long and they should, next time, aim to get feedback and respond within 2/3 months.
Chun nerfs just exposed all the bad Chun players.
damn, going in at ricki :^)
I don't disagree. I was a buff dont nerf idealist. I don't think nash should have gotten touched. Infact i would have made ex schythe a true reversal. Chun's stand lk at least animated like an anti air. Alex and Fang? I mean..Then look at some of the buffs for S2. Rog and Urien players didn't ask for more health. I don't think any cammy player was dissatisfied with her normals yet she got buffed. Capcom imo needs to publicly test their changes. Bi annual patches with a month worth of public beta test. If you want to push the game towards e sports at least include the community into the balance direction.
TheSpoiler
Member
A quick beta every once and a while, or maybe towards the end of the season, to gauge system changes would be nice, but yeah, maybe not something they base shit on full stop.
While I have issues with the lack of defensive options, I do think some things need to rock for a reason. Like Rog and people stopping his OH rekka mixup. The reliance should not be on looking to nerfs but whether or not a situation is adaptable. That isn't to say Rog doesn't deserve some scaling, but in general we are too quick to call something in a fighting game as a set, unmovable fact when shit changes all the time.
I love the community, but we have no idea what we want, nor do we care how the game plays in an overall spectrum besides how our characters deal with matchups. We also don't give a shit if the game is supposed to be played a certain way. That's not just SFV, but all fighters. So while they should take some feedback into consideration, I really don't want the fans running things, because most people aren't going to look to make anything fair for other people as a whole.
sixteen-bit
Member
lol, got 'em
Disagree thoroughly. I think we can identify things that are too good fairly quickly within the given context. Also the concept of ' how the developers meant for it to be played' is nonsense. It almost never survives contact. If you want players to stay commited either listen to their feedback of do a better job at executing archetypes.
SolarPowered
Member
They can just have a permanent beta left only for offline play until the test period after a balance update when it goes online. It would also be a good way to let people experiment with DLC characters offline if they don't want people to select them in the main game's training mode.
*thumbs up*
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