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Stripping

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Koshiba

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No idea if a topic like this has been posted yet or not but I was curious of people's opinions on the subject. It was recently brought up in my IRC channel. Some people kept saying how trashy it was. I suppose I can see why people think it's "trashy." But honestly, thinking about it, if a person has the body and confidence to show it off like that and get paid lotsa money, then go for it. I see stripping basically as nude dancing. Like when you go to strip clubs. I used to have a different opinion on it when I was younger but it seems to have changed. I just don't /really/ see how it's all that trashy since it's not like they're actually doing physical stuff for money. :P Well.. I'm sure some strippers do.. But generally, just stripping. I mean if they like what they do and like the money they get, what's wrong with it?

So, I'm just wondering what everyone else's opinion is on it. :) Just random curiousity I suppose.
 
I have worked in Strip Clubs, and the lifestyle really messes with women. Also it is so closely tied to the underground that to two lifestyles often cross each other... so yeah it is pretty trashy
 
Blackace said:
I have worked in Strip Clubs, and the lifestyle really messes with women. Also it is so closely tied to the underground that to two lifestyles often cross each other... so yeah it is pretty trashy
Click to expand...

I suppose that's true too. Though so many things /are/ tied to the underground these days. :lol How about if the person was able to keep those things from crossing and stay out of it?

I've known a couple people that have done stripping before and they were pretty normal down to earth people.
 
Koshiba said:
I suppose that's true too. Though so many things /are/ tied to the underground these days. :lol How about if the person was able to keep those things from crossing and stay out of it?

I've known a couple people that have done stripping before and they were pretty normal down to earth people.
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Yeah I have known a few too... But just the lifestlye is trashy, the whole scene. So it takes it toll even on the down to earth people. That's why they get out...
 
What I dont get is why guys like to be cock teased for so long, after 15 minutes it feels like I am at a nudist colony.
 
Stryder said:
How very bizzarre, I was listening to a girl just this morning talk about the merits of stripping on Nova, and how she earns much more money doing that than by making use of the degree she went to uni for.

What a small world! (had no idea you were in Melbourne as well)
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Yeah, they talk about it a lot on Nova.

Yup, Melbourne Gal, through and through. Are we living in the greatest city or what!

Koshiba said:
That's the kind of answer I expected out of you. And I'd have to agree with it. <3 Personally, I think some women diss it because they're jealous.
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Well wouldn't want to let you down! But answer me this, how would you feel if it was say your girlfriend or sister that worked in one of these joints? Would you still be okay with it? (Gotta play devil's advocate).
 
Koshiba said:
That's the kind of answer I expected out of you. :) And I'd have to agree with it. <3 Personally, I think some women diss it because they're jealous. :lol
Click to expand...

I don't think most women are jealous...sure if the bf/husband spends time in one...but I doubt ladies sit around and think "damn I wish I could be a stripper"
 
i'm really not so cool with this revisionism that makes stripping out to be some kind of girl power. there is an element of that in it but mostly it just seems like exploitation
 
I worked in a field directly related to adult entertaiment and one of the sad facts was that most of the women who chose to strip, or go into porn, had been molested at least once when they were young.

And don't let them tell you otherwise, stripping often leads into other, less socially acceptable activities. Like a gateway drug.

You have to have a very sound pychological foundation to get through stripping without it affecting you.

I've met, and dated, more than my share of smart, liberated college girls who tried to tackle stripping and came out of the experience hating men, despising their bodies and distrusting other women.
 
Blackace said:
I don't think most women are jealous...sure if the bf/husband spends time in one...but I doubt ladies sit around and think "damn I wish I could be a stripper"
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I know that my one friend is jealous because she goes on about how trashy they are for showing their body. Thing is, she's extremely insecure about her own body, she won't even have sex being completely nude. That's what I mean by it. I think some are just jealous that they can't be that confident about their own body.

Alyssa DeJour said:
Well wouldn't want to let you down! But answer me this, how would you feel if it was say your girlfriend or sister that worked in one of these joints? Would you still be okay with it? (Gotta play devil's advocate).
Click to expand...

Depends on how strong she is. If I think she can handle it, yeah I'd be a little worried. But if that's what she wants and I think she can handle it, then I'm okay with it. :x
 
fart said:
i'm really not so cool with this revisionism that makes stripping out to be some kind of girl power. there is an element of that in it but mostly it just seems like exploitation
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It is exploitation. A bunch of women using their bodies to exploit men by creating the illusion we actually want them, and making an obscene amount of money in the process. And the guy doesn’t even get to touch himself, let alone her. Great scam if you ask me.
 
i approve of stripping. just not fat strippers =(

Funny story. a friend of mine was at a strip club, and he's a chubby guy, so this "chubby" girl goes to his side of the stage and starts to dance for him. He looks around all nervous and tries not to pay attention. this over achieving stripper decides she's not letting him go without a fight, so she bends over and starts shaking her huge ass at him. he let's out a very loud "ew" and throws down a dollar and walks away.
 
Mupepe said:
i approve of stripping. just not fat strippers =(

Funny story. a friend of mine was at a strip club, and he's a chubby guy, so this "chubby" girl goes to his side of the stage and starts to dance for him. He looks around all nervous and tries not to pay attention. this over achieving stripper decides she's not letting him go without a fight, so she bends over and starts shaking her huge ass at him. he let's out a very loud "ew" and throws down a dollar and walks away.
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Gee, your friend sounds like one classy bloke.
 
Mupepe said:
Funny story. a friend of mine was at a strip club, and he's a chubby guy, so this "chubby" girl goes to his side of the stage and starts to dance for him. He looks around all nervous and tries not to pay attention. this over achieving stripper decides she's not letting him go without a fight, so she bends over and starts shaking her huge ass at him. he let's out a very loud "ew" and throws down a dollar and walks away.
Click to expand...

foley34fi.gif
 
Alyssa DeJour said:
Gee, your friend sounds like one classy bloke.
Click to expand...

He could've been the gentleman and told her to take her fat ass back to the other side of the stage. At least he tried to endure it haha
 
Blackace said:
I have worked in Strip Clubs, and the lifestyle really messes with women. Also it is so closely tied to the underground that to two lifestyles often cross each other... so yeah it is pretty trashy
Click to expand...
Please tell me that you danced under the name from your current tag.
 
Alyssa DeJour said:
It is exploitation. A bunch of women using their bodies to exploit men by creating the illusion we actually want them, and making an obscene amount of money in the process. And the guy doesn’t even get to touch himself, let alone her. Great scam if you ask me.
Click to expand...
in order to do this you have to:

believe that your value is tied to your cosmetic appearance (why do the customers desire you/want to believe that you want them?)

believe that the monetary compensation you receive has a value higher than your sexuality

and, who has the highest compensation in this? the club owners, the customers, or the dancers?

i think your theory on who is exploiting who is convenient but reductive. that said, i'm not a dancer, club owner, customer or psychologist, so...
 
My opinion of strippers is different than strip clubs. Dancers have been a part of culture in many ways and for different people. I can understand the movement of the body as an art.

Strip clubs? They give me grody feelings. I don't want to stare at something I can't touch and the other guys there creep me out. And not all the strippers in a stripclub are dancers.

Plus, its a play of that sex power vs male power game and I hate gender games.
 
I have never thought very highly of strippers and doubt I ever will. I don't think they are the scum of the earth or something, but it is definitely a 'lower' form of entertainment. If they truly liked dancing and eroticism, they should try for somethign 'classier'.

sorta like how I would hold a a very good actress in an excellent 'erotic' movie far above a common porn star. The porn star is just lower on the chain of respect. Its as if they aren't good enough to achieve the same effect without taking off their clothes, so they are forced to strip completely to get any attention.
 
Its paying women to cocktease. I don't know why more women aren't doing this since many can do it so naturally. Why not get paid for it in the process.

A lot of girls are jealous of it. They are the girls you'll find on Ricki Lake. They boo any woman who wants bigger boobs but cheer a woman who wants smaller boobs. That shit is sickening and reflects very poorly on them for doing so.

How do I perceive women who strip? I was good friends with one who did it during an amateur night by losing a bet with her friends. She liked the money that she got stripping (about $1500 a week if I can recall). She stopped eventually. She didn't think it was degrading or anything of that sort, she just was tired of the management. They would ask her to go to private shows or more hours and she refused because she had other arrangements. They were fine at first but quickly grew impatient and became more threatening. Also, they were taking bigger cuts of her money. They also tried controlling her life a lot too, outside of the club. She couldn't fuck certain guys, she couldn't buy this or that to maintain their image during the day.

I don't know if other girls have that experience but it was for her. She was able to bail out with little problems before the shit started to get really bad. For that alone, I wouldn't recommend a woman doing it, unless the owner wouldn't pull that shit.
 
Shady business and I don't like it.

My opinion of it would be sightly better if the average female stripper was actually pretty. :D
 
Haha @ the "girl power revisionism". The attitude that "stripping is okay" is nothing more than the advocate's attempt to express their OWN sexual confidence by association. Fuck that -- pick something that DOESN'T lead women into drug abuse or abusive relationships with managers/dealers if you want to show us how open-minded or just plain uninhibited you are.

Stripping is an ugly business. It's not the fact that the women are naked -- that bit rocks -- it's the hordes of leering, demented idiots whose broken sexuality leads them to demand a level of objectification that ultimately demeans women in their purview. In the end, the women get a very distorted view of male sexuality, as do the men of women, and there's nothing healthy about that exchange at all -- which is why it often degenerates into prostitution, drugs, coercion, and physical abuse. The women I've known who've done the "strip to pay for college" bit have come out very hard and jaded about sexuality and men in general -- and they're among the LEAST of the casualties of that industry.

Stripping for your man in private is cool. For money, though -- it's just a recipe for exploitation and emotional damage. Strip clubs are thoroughly unpleasant little farces that cultivate an underground, seedy atmosphere deliberately to suggest exploitation and the idea that women are nothing more than furniture with tits, and that attitude comes out in the expression of every serious patron in the place.

This "girl power" glamourizing of the stripper's role is just a sad form of chick bragging: "I'm cool with strippers because I'm hot enough to be one and you aren't, haha other dumb fat chicks!" Not that I have a problem with that attitude unto itself, but how 'bout you skip the intellectual dishonesty and just SAY that instead of trying to make commercial stripping out to be a good thing when it clearly isn't?
 
I used to live next door to some strippers in college. We became great friends for a little while there- free entry into the club, free drinks, sometimes free dances. However, they were pretty much yer stereotypical strippers- dumber than a box of rocks, gobbling up whatever drugs were in front of them and ended up fucking most of my roommates(I was content just to make out with the better looking one once, lord knows where they had been).

So I'd have to say that my experience with strippers was a pretty stereotypical one. Also, Alyssa, I'd have to point out that there are likely some serious sociological differences between the US and Australia that factor into the whole stripper equation. I don't think I've ever met a stripper who wasn't into some kind of drug.
 
If a girl worked in a high-class joint it might be okay, but then again rich customers probably have even more of a sense of entitlement and ownership than Joe Six-Pack.

Is it degrading work? Yeah, though one might argue that it is more degrading to work some shit-job at retail for $6/hour, being forced to grin and bear it everytime someone gives you shit. For a girl without much education or experience it's probably the highest paying sort of work you can do.
Koshiba said:
Personally, I think some women diss it because they're jealous.
Click to expand...
Or because strippers tend to contribute to the men's idea that women will whore themselves for money, or that they're just pieces of meat to be hooted, hollered at, and judged for their looks.

It's easier for people like Alyssa to respect strippers as "performers" or "artists" when you only go to "no touch" strip clubs. If you go to places with lap dances, weeellll.......watching the blank look in a girl's eye as she gyrates her ass into some fat 55-year-old's hard-on kind of changes things.

I tend not to see much artistry in it because it all pretty much the same. I don't think I've seen anything new since I started going to strip clubs when I was in my late teens. There's a stable of "moves" that just get repeated ad nauseum in different sequences. It didn't seem like anyone was really coming up with unique routines or any of that.
 
Drinky Crow said:
Haha @ the "girl power revisionism". The attitude that "stripping is okay" is nothing more than the advocate's attempt to express their OWN sexual confidence by association. Fuck that -- pick something that DOESN'T lead women into drug abuse or abusive relationships with managers/dealers if you want to show us how open-minded or just plain uninhibited you are.

Stripping is an ugly business. It's not the fact that the women are naked -- that bit rocks -- it's the hordes of leering, demented idiots whose broken sexuality leads them to demand a level of objectification that ultimately demeans women in their purview. In the end, the women get a very distorted view of male sexuality, as do the men of women, and there's nothing healthy about that exchange at all -- which is why it often degenerates into prostitution, drugs, coercion, and physical abuse. The women I've known who've done the "strip to pay for college" bit have come out very hard and jaded about sexuality and men in general -- and they're among the LEAST of the casualties of that industry.

Stripping for your man in private is cool. For money, though -- it's just a recipe for exploitation and emotional damage. Strip clubs are thoroughly unpleasant little farces that cultivate an underground, seedy atmosphere deliberately to suggest exploitation and the idea that women are nothing more than furniture with tits, and that attitude comes out in the expression of every serious patron in the place.

This "girl power" glamourizing of the stripper's role is just a sad form of chick bragging: "I'm cool with strippers because I'm hot enough to be one and you aren't, haha other dumb fat chicks!" Not that I have a problem with that attitude unto itself, but how 'bout you skip the intellectual dishonesty and just SAY that instead of trying to make commercial stripping out to be a good thing when it clearly isn't?
Click to expand...

Wow. This post is great, and exactly what I think of Alyssa. She's like the missing Spice Girl or something. She's just excited about any opportunity to express her 'free' thinking and girl power stuff. And she's not hot enough to be a stripper.
 
Haha Nova...

Man when I was in Australia studying there, so many of the students there busted that station's balls. I guess they were right.

Also: I agree with Drinky, and border...
 
Drinky Crow said:
Haha @ the "girl power revisionism". The attitude that "stripping is okay" is nothing more than the advocate's attempt to express their OWN sexual confidence by association. Fuck that -- pick something that DOESN'T lead women into drug abuse or abusive relationships with managers/dealers if you want to show us how open-minded or just plain uninhibited you are.

Stripping is an ugly business. It's not the fact that the women are naked -- that bit rocks -- it's the hordes of leering, demented idiots whose broken sexuality leads them to demand a level of objectification that ultimately demeans women in their purview. In the end, the women get a very distorted view of male sexuality, as do the men of women, and there's nothing healthy about that exchange at all -- which is why it often degenerates into prostitution, drugs, coercion, and physical abuse. The women I've known who've done the "strip to pay for college" bit have come out very hard and jaded about sexuality and men in general -- and they're among the LEAST of the casualties of that industry.

Stripping for your man in private is cool. For money, though -- it's just a recipe for exploitation and emotional damage. Strip clubs are thoroughly unpleasant little farces that cultivate an underground, seedy atmosphere deliberately to suggest exploitation and the idea that women are nothing more than furniture with tits, and that attitude comes out in the expression of every serious patron in the place.

This "girl power" glamourizing of the stripper's role is just a sad form of chick bragging: "I'm cool with strippers because I'm hot enough to be one and you aren't, haha other dumb fat chicks!" Not that I have a problem with that attitude unto itself, but how 'bout you skip the intellectual dishonesty and just SAY that instead of trying to make commercial stripping out to be a good thing when it clearly isn't?
Click to expand...

Drinky for the win...
 
People keep thinking that all "stripclubs" are dirty places. There /are/ higherclass places that aren't really linked with the underground or whatever. My friend's fiance does exotic dancing for a living and hasn't had any problems yet. I guess overall, it just depends where you go.
 
Why are you focusing on stripping as an expression of female sexuality? Christ, if you really ARE hot, just wear some stylish, revealing clothes and head down to the mall -- you'll get all the validation you need in the eyes of men -and- the women you're eager to compete with. You have that freedom and the ability, and there's no-one exploiting you.

Stripping isn't about freedom. It's an industry created by men for men about specifically male needs. There isn't a guy in a strip club that respects you and views you as a vision of empowerment, no matter how theoretically "high class" you may feel the place is. The dudes whose validation and respect you want don't frequent places like that; at least, not when they're in the sort of frame of mind where they're looking to understand and appreciate women in any way that doesn't reduce a woman to collection of erogenous zones. In any strip club, you're completely interchangable with any other moderately attractive woman working the tables. Being "Koshiba" or "Alyssa" is, at best, an easier way to remember you than "Big Tits #127" or "Sweet Ass v0.8," although I frankly doubt any man honestly makes that distinction unless they plan to stalk you.

In the end, it's really about you being proud of your physical attractiveness, and your desire to derive as much personal power and validation as you can from it. I'm cool with that -- as should be any red-blooded, responsible male. But stripping isn't about you. It's there because many men don't WANT to go through the effort of knowing you; they just want your goods as anonymously and conveniently as possible without breaking any laws. A stripper is a convenience, like fast food.

Don't confuse an image of feminine freedom with its reality. And don't try to play up an issue of female competition as some sort of high-minded episode of liberation, because you really are doing all women -- hot AND ugly -- a big fuckin' disservice.
 
And she's not hot enough to be a stripper.
Click to expand...

And that's EXACTLY the issue. The women who identify with strippers see them as women supposedly adored by men, and they hope that by association, they too will have obtained a sort of undeniable reputation as extremely appealing to men.

Many, many women envy strippers. There's all sorts of exercise programs and dance classes that train a woman to act like a stripper, because the stripper is foolishly considered some sort of modern image of female empowerment.

As near as I can tell, Alyssa really, REALLY wants us to buy into the idea of her attractiveness. Hey, I'll bite: that's a pretty gal in her avatar, and her posts by and large indicate a fairly smart person to boot. But eventually, the "sexual freedom" act wears thin, and you ask: why the fuckin' hard sell? I coulda told you, based on her posting history, that if I asked her about strippers even before this thread that I woulda got a lecture on how strippers are icons of modern female empowerment, and it woulda made me roll my eyes then as much as it does now.

In the end, a confident, sexy woman just *is*. She isn't sexy by association, or because she tries to cultivate an image beyond what her body and demeanor tells us. She's sexy BECAUSE her every word, her every attitude, her every gesture of style speaks confidence, and there's no sales pitch: we bought the moment she advertised. This has nothing to do with fucking STRIPPING or any other ludicrous contextual assertion of sexuality; a confident woman knows who she is and where she is, and plays to all her strengths. Chicks have a lot of power over us, but strippers in a strip club setting? Nah. They're men's bitches, no matter how polished the chrome pole is or how new the naugahyde on the walls might be.
 
you're not expressing your sexuality when you strip, but a male perversion of female sexuality. how is cosmetic surgery a healthy expression of female sexuality? cash for skin? i'm just not seeing it.
 
Drinky Crow said:
In the end, a confident, sexy woman just *is*. She isn't sexy by association, or because she tries to cultivate an image beyond what her body and demeanor tells us. She's sexy BECAUSE her every word, her every attitude, her every gesture of style speaks confidence, and there's no sales pitch: we bought the moment she advertised. This has nothing to do with fucking STRIPPING or any other ludicrous contextual assertion of sexuality; a confident woman knows who she is and where she is, and plays to all her strengths. Chicks have a lot of power over us, but strippers in a strip club setting? Nah. They're men's bitches, no matter how polished the chrome pole is or how new the naugahyde on the walls might be.
Click to expand...
maybe i'm just more of a bleeding heart than you are, but i don't buy into this je ne sais quoi of sexuality. i think it still buys into the same system of marginalization. 'sexiness' seems like a meaningless identifier to me, an adjective used to praise form fitting firls and put down nonconformists.
 
I won't get into the "good vs. bad" argument at hand. I'll just say that, even though I have only been to a strip club twice, there are far worse ways to spend an evening than to have some titties rubbed in your face.
 
.: Shrugs :. I wouldn't do it personally but since I know people that do it, I see nothing wrong with it. Then again, I also think prostitution should be legal for the simple fact, I feel people should be able to do whatever the hell they want to with their own bodies. I dunno, I like to try and keep an open mind about things. :lol
 
pollo said:
HI GUYZ IMMA GIRL ;)
Click to expand...
ME 2 & I <3 STRIPPERZ ^__^;

Haha @ the "girl power revisionism". The attitude that "stripping is okay" is nothing more than the advocate's attempt to express their OWN sexual confidence by association. Fuck that -- pick something that DOESN'T lead women into drug abuse or abusive relationships with managers/dealers if you want to show us how open-minded or just plain uninhibited you are.

Stripping is an ugly business. It's not the fact that the women are naked -- that bit rocks -- it's the hordes of leering, demented idiots whose broken sexuality leads them to demand a level of objectification that ultimately demeans women in their purview. In the end, the women get a very distorted view of male sexuality, as do the men of women, and there's nothing healthy about that exchange at all -- which is why it often degenerates into prostitution, drugs, coercion, and physical abuse. The women I've known who've done the "strip to pay for college" bit have come out very hard and jaded about sexuality and men in general -- and they're among the LEAST of the casualties of that industry.

Stripping for your man in private is cool. For money, though -- it's just a recipe for exploitation and emotional damage. Strip clubs are thoroughly unpleasant little farces that cultivate an underground, seedy atmosphere deliberately to suggest exploitation and the idea that women are nothing more than furniture with tits, and that attitude comes out in the expression of every serious patron in the place.

This "girl power" glamourizing of the stripper's role is just a sad form of chick bragging: "I'm cool with strippers because I'm hot enough to be one and you aren't, haha other dumb fat chicks!" Not that I have a problem with that attitude unto itself, but how 'bout you skip the intellectual dishonesty and just SAY that instead of trying to make commercial stripping out to be a good thing when it clearly isn't?
Click to expand...
IAWTN
 
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