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[Massive Duck. C.M.]

What's great is that none of this matters because the content of your policy doesn't mean shit if you can motivate enough dumb, hateful people to turn out for you.

 

[Mr.Shrugglesツ]

What's great is that none of this matters because the content of your policy doesn't mean shit if you can motivate enough dumb, hateful people to turn out for you.

Actually it means that it doesn't mean shit if can't motivate enough dumb, complacent people to turn out for you.

 

[Boney]

Now might be a good time to point out that the Green party margin exceeded Hillary's loss in the three close states that swung the election, and that the margin between the Green Party's performance in 2004, 2008, and 2012 compared to what it was in 2016 was about enough to throw the election.

If the progressive movement in America wants to have a hissy fit meltdown every 16 years, there's absolutely no limit to the elections we can throw.

So people that rally around the environment should vote for a party that aggressively supports fracking.

It's ridiculous.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Which one? The OP or Solidsnakes?





They were highly negative in bursts but they constantly played into his hands. There was a "wordchart" recently about the media coverage of both Trump and Hillary's coverage which was incredibly revealing.


Like i said, I am not saying her strategy of going extremely negative with her ads was correct, just saying that comparing her ad campaign to Trumps is not one-to-one.

But it's not like Trump didn't run attack ads. I specifically remember one that began with Hillary in an interview saying something along the lines of "Some ask why aren't I winning by 50%" before going into a list of criticisms of her. I think the big issue with Hillary's attack ads is that it seemed like she had one in constant circulation, and it was the one with kids watching Trump say a bunch of shit while asking is that who you want your kids to look up to. It wasn't a bad ad, but it seemed like her campaign thought they'd created the greatest political ad in history and everyone needed to see it so they were going to put it in almost nonstop rotation on TV.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Actually it means that it doesn't mean shit if can't motivate enough dumb, complacent people to turn out for you.

Original

 

[Mr.Shrugglesツ]

Original

Unlike the voters needed to avoid a manchild in office.

(this is a thread about how badly hillary lost to a fucking bigot, right?)

 

[Frank the Great]

So people that rally around the environment should vote for a party that aggressively supports fracking.

It's ridiculous.

It's really not. And it's not complicated either. Dems are far better for the environment than Republicans. Greens have no chance of winning. Therefore, voting Green is a vote against the environment.

It takes a child's mentality to vote third party as a protest. It's simply irrational.

But this is way off topic at this point so that's the last I'll say on that matter. I will say that I still blame Hillary's campaign for failing to motivate the base, but that does not justify or excuse irrational voting choices.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Unlike the voters needed to avoid a manchild in office.

(this is a thread about how badly hillary lost to a fucking bigot, right?)

I thought it was a gloating thread

 

[Mr.Shrugglesツ]

I thought it was a gloating thread

So another wrong reading.

 

[PdotMichael]

Now might be a good time to point out that the Green party margin exceeded Hillary's loss in the three close states that swung the election, and that the margin between the Green Party's performance in 2004, 2008, and 2012 compared to what it was in 2016 was about enough to throw the election.

If the progressive movement in America wants to have a hissy fit meltdown every 16 years, there's absolutely no limit to the elections we can throw.

With other words: Clinton did a bad job of getting even liberals on her side.

 

[J-Rod]

It seems like many are still using this failed strategy even now.

 

[Father_Brain]

Now might be a good time to point out that the Green party margin exceeded Hillary's loss in the three close states that swung the election, and that the margin between the Green Party's performance in 2004, 2008, and 2012 compared to what it was in 2016 was about enough to throw the election.

If the progressive movement in America wants to have a hissy fit meltdown every 16 years, there's absolutely no limit to the elections we can throw.

Given that Obama won twice without passing any leftist purity test, it's pretty disingenuous to frame this as an inherent problem with the "progressive movement" rather than a consequence of Clinton and Gore being uninspiring candidates who ran poor campaigns.

 

[Boney]

Yes this is actually pissing me off this morning. Bernie has done what, ever, exactly?

Bernie Sanders was first elected to the House of Representatives in 1990, and many immediately doubted his efficacy. “It is virtually impossible for an independent to be effective in the House,” said then-Congressman Bill Richardson (D-NM). “As an independent you are kind of a homeless waif.” Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA), today an outspoken advocate for Hillary Clinton, said Bernie's “holier-than-thou attitude—saying in a very loud voice he is smarter than everyone else and purer than everyone else—really undercuts his effectiveness.”

Despite the fact that the most right-wing Republicans in a generation controlled the House of Representatives between 1994 and 2006, the member who passed the most amendments during that time was not a right-winger like Bob Barr or John Boehner. The amendment king was, instead, Bernie Sanders.

Sanders did something particularly original, which was that he passed amendments that were exclusively progressive, advancing goals such as reducing poverty and helping the environment, and he was able to get bipartisan coalitions of Republicans who wanted to shrink government or hold it accountable and progressives who wanted to use it to empower Americans.

Higher Education Amendments of 1998, Sanders made a change to the law that allowed the Fund for the Improvement of Postsecondary Education to make competitive grants available to colleges and universities that cooperated to reduce costs through joint purchases of goods and services.

Expanding Free Health Care (November 2001): You wouldn't think Republicans would agree to an expansion of funds for community health centers, which provide some free services. But Sanders was able to win a $100 million increase in funding with an amendme

Increasing Funding for Heating for the Poor (September 2004): Sanders won a $22 million increase for the low-income home energy assistance program and related weatherization assistance program

Greening the U.S. Government (June 2007): A Sanders amendment made a change to the law so at least 30 percent of the hot water demand in newer federal buildings is provided through solar water heaters.

Restricting the Bailout to Protect U.S. Workers (Feburary 2009): A Sanders amendment required the banking bailout to utilize stricter H-1B hiring standards to ensure bailout funds weren't used to displace American workers

Exposing Corruption in the Military-Industrial Complex (November 2012): A Sanders amendment required “public availability of the database of senior Department officials seeking employment with defense contractors” – an important step toward transparency that revealed the corruption of the revolving door in action.

Sanders was able to get the first-ever audit of funds given out by the Federal Reserve, which made transparent over $2 trillion of funds handed out by the secretive organization. This was a cause that Republican congressman Ron Paul (TX) had been pursuing for decades, but Sanders was able to get the votes to do it by forging a compromise that required an audit for the bailout period alone.

When the Affordable Care Act was in danger of not having the votes to pass, Sanders used his leverage to win enough funding for free health treatment for 10 million Americans through Community Health Centers. This gutsy move—holding out until the funds were put into the bill—has even Republican members of Congress requesting the funds, which have helped millions of Americans who otherwise would not have access.

When Sanders was mayor of Burlington, Vermont, one of his big accomplishments was to increase civic life in the city. During the course of his terms, voter turnout doubled. In his eight years as mayor, he rejuvenated a city that was considered by many to be dying, laying out progressive policies that cities around the country later adopted, and he did all this without particularly alienating Republicans. As one former GOP Alderman noted, he implemented ideas from the Republican party that he felt were not particularly harmful to working people, such as more efficient accounting practices.

A lot more at the link http://www.alternet.org/election-20...shing-through-major-reforms-will-surprise-you

Not that it matters that much since Bernie as a figure is out, but what is still in is how to effectively uncompromise to corporate interest.

 

[Nazgul_Hunter]

With other words: Clinton did a bad job of getting even liberals on her side.

Yeah it was a pretty big miscalculation on Hillary's part; and also people who thought she would win, therefore casing a protest vote was safe.

 

[Netherscourge]

People need to stop blaming the candidate and start looking at the actual voters around them and realize they're the problem with this country. Both the lazy people who don't even show up to vote and the crazy people who vote for the assholes running the country.

And no, I don't mean kissing voters' asses and telling them what they want to hear.

I mean smacking them across the face and making them feel shame and embarrassment for either their lack of interest or their disgusting promotion of discrimination in the government.

Hillary did what she had to do. She has no responsibility to try to appeal to racists, bigots or sexists. Those people are on their own and if they are the majority electing our officials now, then the future of America lies with everyday citizens stamping those people out, not trying to "save" them.

 

[Rentahamster]

I thought it was a gloating thread

No. Analysis thread.

 

[platakul]

People need to stop blaming the candidate and start looking at the actual voters around them and realize they're the problem with this country. Both the lazy people who don't even show up to vote and the crazy people who vote for the assholes running the country.

And no, I don't mean kissing voters' asses and telling them what they want to hear.

I mean smacking them across the face and making them feel shame and embarrassment for either their lack of interest or their disgusting promotion of discrimination in the government.

So.... your electoral strategy is to ensure the end of the democratic party???

 

[Father_Brain]

People need to stop blaming the candidate and start looking at the actual voters around them and realize they're the problem with this country. Both the lazy people who don't even show up to vote and the crazy people who vote for the assholes running the country.

And no, I don't mean kissing voters' asses and telling them what they want to hear.

I mean smacking them across the face and making them feel shame and embarrassment for either their lack of interest or their disgusting promotion of discrimination in the government.

This is no doubt a highly effective strategy for winning back these votes and not merely an exercise in catharsis and smug self-congratulation. Nope.

 

[Mr.Shrugglesツ]

People need to stop blaming the candidate and start looking at the actual voters around them and realize they're the problem with this country. Both the lazy people who don't even show up to vote and the crazy people who vote for the assholes running the country.

And no, I don't mean kissing voters' asses and telling them what they want to hear.

I mean smacking them across the face and making them feel shame and embarrassment for either their lack of interest or their disgusting promotion of discrimination in the government.

People vote for candidates.

Don't give officials a pass for a shitty proposition.

Hillary would have been a great president. She chose the wrong team.

And don't give me this shit about how it was Obama's team. It wasn't. She had the staff and not the people fighting the fight. They literally said they didn't want to keep being in politics.

 

[SolidSnakex]

People need to stop blaming the candidate and start looking at the actual voters around them and realize they're the problem with this country. Both the lazy people who don't even show up to vote and the crazy people who vote for the assholes running the country.

Blaming the voter will get you nowhere while finding out where the candidate went wrong will make sure that you don't repeat the same mistake next time around. Hillary made some extremely glaring errors. Her lack of campaigning/ads in key battleground states wasn't the fault of voters. Nor was her decision to vanish for nearly a month so she can hang out and fund raise with the ultra rich all the while Trump was out speaking directly to voters.

 

[Netherscourge]

So.... your electoral strategy is to ensure the end of the democratic party???

On the flip side, this is exactly the counter-strategy Trump used.

Everyone said, "Oh look. The GoP is self-destructing. This will set them back decades!"

What happened?

The GoP control the WH, the House, the Senate and soon the SCOTUS. They also have majority Governorship too.

Yea, it really tore them apart.

Trump's successful strategy: blast the opposition, shame Republicans who don't fall in line, call out conservatives that are being too wishy-washy. He got personal with his opponents and it worked.

Dem's need to counter-that with uber-Liberalism and get just as personal right back at them.

 

[phanphare]

Yes this is actually pissing me off this morning. Bernie has done what, ever, exactly?

is this a joke? look at his record as mayor of Burlington and also his record while in the House. dude's been fighting the good fight for decades, and is still out there beating the drum in the wake of Trump, and you're asking what he's ever done?

 

[tbm24]

cringiest part of Hillary is when people online call her....

Spoiler

Hilldawg

makes me throw up in my mouth.

It's a south park joke.

 

[thepotatoman]

On the flip side, this is exactly the counter-strategy Trump used.

Everyone said, "Oh look. The GoP is self-destructing. This will set them back decades!"

What happened?

The GoP control the WH, the House, the Senate and soon the SCOTUS. They also have majority Governorship too.

Yea, it really tore them apart.

Trump's successful strategy: blast the opposition, shame Republicans who don't fall in line, call out conservatives that are being too wishy-washy. He got personal with his opponents and it worked.

Dem's need to counter-that with uber-Liberalism and get just as personal right back at them.

Hillary did propose a medicare buy in and lowering the medicare age to 50 or 55 during the democratic primary. That's not uber-liberalism, but would have gone a long way to counter things like Trump saying Obamacare sucks and he'll do amazing health care.

Basically anything other than saying Obamacare is great as is when absolutely no one on any side thinks that.

 

[Mr.Shrugglesツ]

Hillary did propose a medicare buy in and lowering the medicare age to 50 or 55 during the democratic primary. That's not uber-liberalism, but would have gone a long way to counter things like Trump saying Obamacare sucks and he'll do amazing health care.

Basically anything other than saying Obamacare is great as is when absolutely no one on any side thinks that.

Too bad no one knew about it. She ran a grassroots campaign to get elected for city council instead of running for president.

 

[PdotMichael]

is this a joke? look at his record as mayor of Burlington and also his record while in the House. dude's been fighting the good fight for decades, and is still out there beating the drum in the wake of Trump, and you're asking what he's ever done?

It's kind of funny how the same people are never asking the same question about Clinton.

 

[Deepwater]

"I'm with her" was so, so awful.

this x1000

 

[Sirpopopop]

I voted for her.
Too bad I live in Portland, Oregon.
Fact is she ran an awful campaign devoid of strong populist messaging.
Not to mention her literally not even showing up in swing states.
Blaming the voters won't do much, learn from these mistakes for future elections, or listen to people who have been ringing the warning bells instead of laughing at them.

Kind of hard to listen to those people when they are too busy having meltdowns over Tom Perez running the DNC rather than Keith Ellison.

 

[badcrumble]

the left forming a human chain around Michigan to prevent hillary from ever campaigning there was probably the low point of the entire election. disgusting

 

[thepotatoman]

Too bad no one knew about it. She ran a grassroots campaign to get elected for city council instead of running for president.

Yeah.

I think debt free college, raise the minimum wage, and equal pay for equal work were the only policies she felt comfortable promoting, and even those were very understated as this study shows.

 

[Ponn]

She had one really great ad that laid out her jobs plan with rebuilding infrastructure, taxing the rich and re-education. Unfortunately I only saw it once here in Florida. The ad they kept showing during evening news was that one of kids watching Trump act like an ass.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

Her campaign was shitty, okay.

Voting for Trump still makes you a dumbass imo.

She was way too overconfident?

Okay, but voting for Trump still makes you a dumbass.

She didn't have enough of a message for you?

No, what you meant to say was that you fell for Trumps lies harder than the amount of time you spent caring about knowing what you were voting for.

I also, didn't think Hillarys campaign was very good or inspiring, but I think the consensus was that you don't need to be Jesus himself if the other option is voting for Satan, because people assumed voters weren't dumbasses.

But they are.

The problem was that Hillary didn't also cater for dumbasses, who are also American. She didn't believe enough in the dumbassery of America.

People voting to remove their own health insurance that they use to STAY ALIVE.

People who fought in wars against nazis and their families voting in a guy who's chief advisor is a neo nazi.

People who thought a guy who quite literally lives in a golden tower named after himself, in the most expensive part of America, who doesn't pay his employees and cons people as a living, would be the voice of the working man and woman.

It's difficult to cater for people you didn't believe were too stupid to actually exist.


The problem is that voters were treated like people who cared enough about their country and democracy, to not be swayed by the simpleton bullshit fired at them by someone who blatantly has no idea what a government is, let alone how to run one.

The people voted Trump in to help them and he's just been fucking around throwing tantrums and making his entire presidency about him.

And they probably love him for it.

If we're going to spend how ever many zillions of man hours analysing this election, let's not leave out the blatantly obvious parts of that analysis.

 

[Cymbal Head]

Valuable teaching moment here, for sure. Hopefully the Democratic party learned. They should hold classes just about this election on a monthly basis for everyone in office or running for office as a Democrat.

Based on the conspiracy mongering about Russia that every establishment Democrat seems to be doubling down on right now, I'd say they are bound and determined not to learn a lesson from Clinton's defeat.

They'd rather spend the next 2 years looking under every rock for the boogeyman than do a little self-reflection.

 

[And_Gignac]

Can we also nickname Hillary voters as irrational for voting for her during the primaries when it was obvious Sanders was a stronger candidate for the generals (PLENTY of polls indicated that)?

 

[aeolist]

Her campaign was shitty, okay.

Voting for Trump still makes you a dumbass imo.

She was way too overconfident?

Okay, but voting for Trump still makes you a dumbass.

She didn't have enough of a message for you?

No, what you meant to say was that you fell for Trumps lies harder than the amount of time you spent caring about knowing what you were voting for.

I also, didn't think Hillarys campaign was very good or inspiring, but I think the consensus was that you don't need to be Jesus himself if the other option is voting for Satan, because people assumed voters weren't dumbasses.

But they are.

The problem was that Hillary didn't also cater for dumbasses, who are also American. She didn't believe enough in the dumbassery of America.

People voting to remove their own health insurance that they use to STAY ALIVE.

People who fought in wars against nazis and their families voting in a guy who's chief advisor is a neo nazi.

People who thought a guy who quite literally lives in a golden tower named after himself, in the most expensive part of America, who doesn't pay his employees and cons people as a living, would be the voice of the working man and woman.


The problem is that voters were treated like people who cared enough about their country and democracy, to not be swayed by the simpleton bullshit fired at them by someone who blatantly has no idea what a government is, let alone how to run one.

The people voted Trump in to help them and he's just been fucking around throwing tantrums and making his entire presidency about him.

And they probably love him for it.

If we're going to spend how ever many zillions of man hours analysing this election, let's not leave out the blatantly obvious parts of that analysis.

then let's also not leave out the part where the democratic party has politically abandoned the exact people who cost hillary the election by not voting. large swaths of the country have been crumbling for decades, and while republicans surely aren't doing anything to help it's also true that democrats haven't given a fuck either. that's a recipe for low turnout, and sure enough that's what happened in places like wisconsin and michigan.

 

[Mr.Shrugglesツ]

Her campaign was shitty, okay.

Voting for Trump still makes you a dumbass imo.

She was way too overconfident?

Okay, but voting for Trump still makes you a dumbass.

She didn't have enough of a message for you?

No, what you meant to say was that you fell for Trumps lies harder than the amount of time you spent caring about knowing what you were voting for.

I also, didn't think Hillarys campaign was very good or inspiring, but I think the consensus was that you don't need to be Jesus himself if the other option is voting for Satan, because people assumed voters weren't dumbasses.

But they are.

The problem was that Hillary didn't also cater for dumbasses, who are also American. She didn't believe enough in the dumbassery of America.

People voting to remove their own health insurance that they use to STAY ALIVE.

People who fought in wars against nazis and their families voting in a guy who's chief advisor is a neo nazi.

People who thought a guy who quite literally lives in a golden tower named after himself, in the most expensive part of America, who doesn't pay his employees and cons people as a living, would be the voice of the working man and woman.

It's difficult to cater for people you didn't believe were too stupid to actually exist.


The problem is that voters were treated like people who cared enough about their country and democracy, to not be swayed by the simpleton bullshit fired at them by someone who blatantly has no idea what a government is, let alone how to run one.

The people voted Trump in to help them and he's just been fucking around throwing tantrums and making his entire presidency about him.

And they probably love him for it.

If we're going to spend how ever many zillions of man hours analysing this election, let's not leave out the blatantly obvious parts of that analysis.

This IS the part of the analysis.

The parallels to yassqueen and magaking are so fucking offensive.

e:

I'm gonna out myself as a lurker, but I want adam to come back and expound on his feeling over this thing. You don't get to run away.

 

[Deepwater]

Based on the conspiracy mongering about Russia that every establishment Democrat seems to be doubling down on right now, I'd say they are bound and determined not to learn a lesson from Clinton's defeat.

They'd rather spend the next 2 years looking under every rock for the boogeyman than do a little self-reflection.

They want people to vote for them but feel that they are entitled to votes by virtue of being the quote-unquote only alternative to Trump.

They need to realize that Trump is working in a completely different universe and that they still have to do more than invoke tribalist intimidation to get votes. The rules are still the same for them even though they will kick and scream about it

 

[Hickbilly Deluxe]

Based on the conspiracy mongering about Russia that every establishment Democrat seems to be doubling down on right now, I'd say they are bound and determined not to learn a lesson from Clinton's defeat.

They'd rather spend the next 2 years looking under every rock for the boogeyman than do a little self-reflection.

Yah, if they don't remove head from ass pretty quickly and start working on what to do, they're going to be in rough waters come 2020.

But this is the Democratic party we are talking about, they'll figure it out. By 2022 maybe.

 

[Sunster]

It's a south park joke.

yea i saw it, but it's still gross.

 

[Neoweee]

Can we also nickname Hillary voters as irrational for voting for her during the primaries when it was obvious Sanders was a stronger candidate for the generals (PLENTY of polls indicated that)?

No, because that data was complete shit. Time and time again people surge in races they aren't actually in, or probably won't be in. Sanders' numbers surged after he effectively lost in March.

I repeat, AFTER HE LOST.

What in the unholy fuck do his polls number matter after he was all but mathematically eliminated from winning the primaries? Republican media and candidates were essentially never targeting him, and Hillary very quickly stopped attacks against him and arguing against him after she won. In March.

 

[Cymbal Head]

I don't even think that's what happened.

She just took the working middle class, unions in particular, for granted in these states, not realizing what a great job the dual whammy of framing her as a globalist anti-worker and a shady corporatist that can't be trusted the GOP and Trump campaign had done.

Polls were also doing a terrible job at reflecting reality.

Now about the recently released poll on Favorables/ Unfavorables.

It is downright sad that it shows just how fractured Progressives still are, and thanks largely to a scorched earth campaign by Bernie and the Greens, but also evidently by the Trump/ GOP campaign aided by the Russian hacks.

Instead of pulling together, we are more divided than ever, and people who are still trying to tear the Democratic party apart both from within and outside (c.f. TYT) just disgust me.

Does the party need change and to evolve? Yes. Do we need constant infighting, fracturing and dragging a party with a vocation to actually produce electable candidates closer to the middle, to extreme positions?

No.

I know that some hope to repeat what the tea party did with the GOP, but this is not what will happen. If you try to repeat that, and splinter the Dems, what will happen is a split between a moderate party and a "socialist" party, neither being electable on its own, and constantly fighting for domination over the other.

In this case, Progressives will effectively have been relegated to a state of permanent opposition.

Change has got to come from within, and with the acceptance that compromises have to be done to find a midway position that can bring more people to the table.

Bernie could show the way by becoming an actual member of the party he tried to hijack, for a start...

 

[jelly]

then let's also not leave out the part where the democratic party has politically abandoned the exact people who cost hillary the election by not voting. large swaths of the country have been crumbling for decades, and while republicans surely aren't doing anything to help it's also true that democrats haven't given a fuck either. that's a recipe for low turnout, and sure enough that's what happened in places like wisconsin and michigan.

Didn't she have a plan for a new skilled workforce in these areas with renewables. I think there is definitely some truth to being ignored but you also sometimes can't help people who won't help themselves and want the same old.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

The Clinton campaign in general was weirdly passive and awkward for something that should have been fueled by the constant Trump scandals. I dunno if it was complacency or just incompetence but it reflects extremely poorly on the people involved.

 

[Frank the Great]

Can we also nickname Hillary voters as irrational for voting for her during the primaries when it was obvious Sanders was a stronger candidate for the generals (PLENTY of polls indicated that)?

No. Even assuming your premise, a wrong choice is not always an irrational one. Sometimes it's just wrong. Hillary still could have won.

Third party voters are irrational because it is not only literally impossible for them to get what they want, by voting third party they are helping to implement policies that they vehemently oppose. It is textbook irrational behavior.

 

[PdotMichael]

Didn't she have a plan for a new skilled workforce in these areas with renewables. I think there is definitely some truth to being ignored but you also sometimes can't help people who won't help themselves and want the same old.

So people who voted for Obama back in the days are somehow lost for the Democrats...

 

[VanMardigan]

Building a border wall and the Muslim ban are policies. Bad policies but policies nonetheless. And they were talked about endlessly. In that sense, Trump's policies drove the narrative of last year's elections.

 

[Mr.Shrugglesツ]

The Clinton campaign in general was weirdly passive and awkward for something that should have been fueled by the constant Trump scandals. I dunno if it was complacency or just incompetence but it reflects extremely poorly on the people involved.

It's what happens when a company buys another company and expects everyone to have the same ethos when replacing people.

Ironically the clinton campaign tried to buy people and the trump campaign didn't.

 

[Deepwater]

No. Even assuming your premise, a wrong choice is not always an irrational one. Sometimes it's just wrong. Hillary still could have won.

Third party voters are irrational because it is not only literally impossible for them to get what they want, by voting third party they are helping to implement policies that they vehemently oppose. It is textbook irrational behavior.

We're aware that voting has symbolic meaning right? As in, people feel good about voting for who think is the best choice?

Reducing it to "irrational behavior" is pretty patronizing and only indicates you don't understand why people vote 3rd party

 

[aeolist]

Didn't she have a plan for a new skilled workforce in these areas with renewables. I think there is definitely some truth to being ignored but you also sometimes can't help people who won't help themselves and want the same old.

saying that these neglected and poor groups don't want to help themselves sounds like a typical republican talking point to me.

the democratic party has to take some responsibility for overseeing an economic "recovery" that has disproportionately benefited the wealthy and left out those who needed it most.

 

[Dr_LucienSanchez]

Yes this is actually pissing me off this morning. Bernie has done what, ever, exactly?

I mean, come on now. In addition to all the other stuff other people have posted.

But yeah, this is what happens when your entire campaign message is basically 'look how bad the other guy is.'