Support NeoGAF

[Tovarisc]

Staff at a suburban Chicago high school called 16-year-old Corey Walgren to the dean’s office to ask about a video he made of himself having sex with a classmate. A few hours later, the teen walked to the top of a five-story parking deck and jumped.

The suicide of the honor-roll student underscored a dilemma for schools when confronting students suspected of recording and sharing sexual images: Should school officials wait until parents arrive to pose questions and search cellphones for illicit photos or video? Or do they, as de facto parents, have the authority to investigate crimes that might include child pornography?

The issue also raises a high-stakes legal question because many child porn laws predate the phenomena of teens sharing sexual images by cellphone. And neither they nor their parents usually have any idea that doing so can trigger serious penalties, including being labeled a sex offender for life.

“It’s not that big a deal until it happens to your school,” said Joshua Herman, a lawyer who represents schools across Illinois. “Then it’s a nightmare.”

Police reports, court filings, witness accounts, emails and other documents obtained by The Associated Press offer an inside look at how Naperville North High School and police responded in the hours before Walgren’s death in January.

His parents have sued the school, accusing it in a federal lawsuit of unnecessarily traumatizing their son by warning him he could be charged and forced to register as a sex offender. They are seeking more than $5 million in damages.

Walgren was interviewed for at least 20 minutes until his parents were called.

When contacted, mom Maureen Walgren said she could guarantee her son would fulfill any requirements to keep the matter out of court, according to the accounts obtained by the AP. She also asked if the family should get an attorney. School officials told her that was her decision.

Madden asked Walgren if he understood what he did was wrong. “He said ... he knew he made a mistake,” the dean said in documents.

Walgren did not appear upset by the questioning. “Corey was calm, cooperative and respectful,” Madden said. The dean also thanked him for being honest.

Walgren may not have shown it, but what he heard must have caused him “psychological distress ... humiliation and shame,” his parents’ lawsuit says.

The law has long recognized school officials as stand-in parents during the school day, with the power to investigate reports of wrongdoing and to discipline students without consulting parents.

But the lawsuit accuses the school of violating Walgren’s rights by not calling his parents first. The school board association instructs schools to call parents but does not say if that should be the first step.

The custody issue is central to the civil case. Students must be told they have a right to remain silent only if they are in custody. Walgren was never told he was under arrest, but his parents’ lawsuit argues he was in custody for all practical purposes, including because he had been told not to leave.

https://apnews.com/c12027bf63604fa4...n=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP

Source also has part about how events unraveled at the beginning. He had made what is basically audio recording of having sex with a girl, act itself can't be seen in video. Also he had pictures of other partially naked girls that, according him, were sent to him by other students.

 

[anonymous_abc]

.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Should have contacted the parents first.

 

[GregLombardi]

If only American society didn't demonize sex but properly educated about the consequences of pregnancy etc. I feel like It Follows was a great film in this regard...it cut loose sexuality and focused on horror, giving us a glimpse of what sexuality could look like without worry or social consternation.

Alas, I digress. Terrible tragedy.

 

[Ashhong]

It counts as child pornography if both parties are underage and the video/picture is not shared?

 

[TarNaru33]

If only American society didn't demonize sex but properly educated about the consequences of pregnancy etc. I feel like It Follows was a great film in this regard...it cut loose sexuality and focused on horror, giving us a glimpse of what sexuality could look like without worry or social consternation.

Alas, I digress. Terrible tragedy.

This issue here is a little different than education on pregnancy etc.

It literally is child porn... Sharing it is illegal as such not to mention even taking it.

It counts as child pornography if both parties are underage and the video/picture is not shared?

Yes, it is still child porn. I never heard of anyone who takes videos of themselves having sex with someone and NOT sharing it ever.

 

[Jotaka]

It counts as child pornography if both parties are underage and the video/picture is not shared?

http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimina...raphy-and-selfies--what-you-need-to-know.html

Though their laws were created to protect minors from exploitation caused by others, states are prosecuting minors under child pornography statutes for sending nude or otherwise lurid self-portraits, even when the minors sent the selfies without coercion. The common quirk in the laws is that there is no exception for taking or distributing sexually explicit pictures of oneself. Thus, a high school student sending a racy seflie to a boyfriend or girlfriend could subject both themselves and the receiver to prosecution for child pornography. If the picture makes its way around other social circles through online or direct sharing, anyone who received or distributed the photo could also find themselves open to charges.

 

[Sunster]

It counts as child pornography if both parties are underage and the video/picture is not shared?

yes. when I was in high school a cop literally told us this during an assembly.

 

[Surface of Me]

This issue here is a little different than education on pregnancy etc.

It literally is child porn... Sharing it is illegal as such not to mention even taking it.

If a 15 year old takes a dick pic you think he should be charged with child pornography?

 

[Nazgul_Hunter]

This issue here is a little different than education on pregnancy etc.

It literally is child porn... Sharing it is illegal as such not to mention even taking it.

I don’t think kids should get in trouble for doing it tho... especially not being put on a registry for life.

 

[Killer Queen]

If a 15 year old takes a dick pic you think he should be charged with child pornography?

Yeah honestly it's pretty dumb and having them labled as a sex offender is incredibly extreme, but it is what it is.

 

[Ashhong]

This issue here is a little different than education on pregnancy etc.

It literally is child porn... Sharing it is illegal as such not to mention even taking it.



Yes, it is still child porn. I never heard of anyone who takes videos of themselves having sex with someone and NOT sharing it ever.

I have sex videos that I have never shared with anyone..and I never would. Not sure why I would want to share that. Maybe if I was in highschool or college or something and wanted to show off, but that shit is for me!

I hope the schools are teaching kids about all of these laws constantly, I can only imagine that sending pics is common at that age. And sex offender is a serious, serious thing to have on your record. I didn't have to deal with any of these issues back in the day..

 

[Hickbilly Deluxe]

accusing it in a federal lawsuit of unnecessarily traumatizing their son by warning him he could be charged and forced to register as a sex offender.

But the school is right? Not exactly sure how the parents can argue this since it's the truth. Sending and receiving nude pictures can and sometimes does wind up in the realm of sex crimes.

Messed up situation all around, but I don't see how the parents win at all.

 

[FlowersisBritish]

Should have contacted the parents first.

Everything in retrospect, but sometimes the home life can be one where telling the parents of this might be worse than handling it within the school. I can see where the school had difficulty deciding.

 

[anonymous_abc]

.

 

[TarNaru33]

If a 15 year old takes a dick pic you think he should be charged with child pornography?

I don't think kids should get in trouble for doing it tho... especially not being put on a registry for life.

It is not about what we think, it is about what is currently the law in many places. Most of the time it don't go as far as police anyways and I personally do not think it
need to. Just an FYI, I don't even agree with the sex offender registry at all.

I can't relate with anyone stupid enough to do such a thing anyways, even I knew the power of technology at a young age to know not to put my naked body of all things on the net.

 

[Earthstrike]

This issue here is a little different than education on pregnancy etc.

It literally is child porn... Sharing it is illegal as such not to mention even taking it.



Yes, it is still child porn. I never heard of anyone who takes videos of themselves having sex with someone and NOT sharing it ever.

How exactly would you hear about people who had sex, filmed it, and didn't tell anyone? By definition, you wouldn't hear about it.

 

[Tovarisc]

But the school is right? Not exactly sure how the parents can argue this since it's the truth. Sending and receiving nude pictures can and sometimes does wind up in the realm of sex crimes.

Messed up situation all around, but I don't see how the parents win at all.

Everything in retrospect, but sometimes the home life can be one where telling the parents of this might be worse than handling it within the school. I can see where the school had difficulty deciding.

But not to have parent(s) even present when throwing very heavy accusations and terms at young teenager is fucked up. And to me looks like it's where there case angles at, that what school did drove their son to commit suicide by causing so much emotional distress followed up with shitty supervision.

 

[Geist-]

No one thought telling emotionally unstable teenagers that they're going to be labeled sex offenders for life might illicit an extreme reaction?

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Everything in retrospect, but sometimes the home life can be one where telling the parents of this might be worse than handling it within the school. I can see where the school had difficulty deciding.

Yeah but even if only from a CYA point of view, having the parents there when they brought this up with the kid would have made for a more stabilizing environment all around.

In the school environments I've seen, generally anything involving possible legal repercussions meant the parents were present before proceeding with any discussion.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

It counts as child pornography if both parties are underage and the video/picture is not shared?

This feels like a 'tree falling in the forest' type of question. If something is against laws as defined then it's still illegal even if nobody ever learns about it, but if something is kept secret forever how could anybody face charges? Pornography is both production and distribution, but as the article notes the laws date from a time before everything had a camera that could record video, making them slow to catch up to punishments that don't live in a fantasy world where teens don't have sex with each other and don't own cameras. I don't have a good answer to the question of "How do you effectively teach teens to not distribute pictures/video of their sex lives?" and it's pretty clear the school found themselves in the same position.

 

[TarNaru33]

How exactly would you hear about people who had sex, filmed it, and didn't tell anyone? By definition, you wouldn't hear about it.

Touche'

I still believe most do though. I hear/see way too many stories on it and people's disregard for their partners trust from friends, families, and coworkers. It is why I don't understand it.

 

[Jotaka]

I'm curious so if someone sends 'child pornography' images just randomly to different phone numbers (or email addresses or whatever) all the recipients are automatically committing a crime?

In this case the recipient should report the police. If he stay silent then I would be classify as a crime.

 

[Xe4]

It is not about what we think, it is about what is currently the law in many places. Most of the time it don't go as far as police anyways and I personally do not think it
need to. Just an FYI, I don't even agree with the sex offender registry at all.

I can't relate with anyone stupid enough to do such a thing anyways, even I knew the power of technology at a young age to know not to put my naked body of all things on the net.

Surprise surprise, teenagers are fucking stupid sometimes.

Should they be labeled as a sex offender for life, be put on a registry, have finding jobs be way fucking harder, just because they took a video and shared it? Like, if a 16 year old couple both agreed to put a video they took on the internet (which is illegal and wrong, btw) should they both be charged of making fucking child porn?

I'm not saying there shouldn't be consequences, there absolutely should be, but child pornography is a serious fucking deal, and I don't think we should be attaching that label to what a bunch of dumb teens make.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

I don’t think kids should get in trouble for doing it tho... especially not being put on a registry for life.

In this particular case, the kid who took the video did not make their partner aware of the recording, so there was some legal basis for punishment.

It all began around noon on Jan. 11 after the 16-year-old classmate with whom Walgren had sex lodged a complaint at school. She had learned of the video that day from a friend and was upset Walgren made it without her permission.

 

[ElFly]

Yes, it is still child porn. I never heard of anyone who takes videos of themselves having sex with someone and NOT sharing it ever.

but...how would you know if someone films themselves having sex and stay silent?

thinking emoji

 

[TarNaru33]

I'm curious so if someone sends 'child pornography' images just randomly to different phone numbers (or email addresses or whatever) all the recipients are automatically committing a crime?

Not likely if the person was to report it.

Surprise surprise, teenagers are fucking stupid sometimes.
Should they be labeled as a sex offender for life, be put on a registry, have finding jobs be way fucking harder, just because they took a video and shared it? Like, if a 16 year old couple both agreed to put a video they took on the internet (which is illegal and wrong, btw) should they both be charged of making fucking child porn?

I'm not saying there shouldn't be consequences, there absolutely should be, but child pornography is a serious fucking deal, and I don't think we should be attaching that label to what a bunch of dumb teens make.

I agree with you on this... it is a very delicate and complicated issue. Consequences is hard to pin down because people also commit suicide because of partners exposing their sex pictures and videos as well. Most of the time I think a parent's intervention in a correct manner would be enough to deal with these situations unless it goes viral or very public.

I don't believe in a sex offender registry anyways, except for it barring people from employment in a field where they are likely to commit a crime again.

 

[Gaogaogao]

In this particular case, the kid who took the video did not make their partner aware of the recording, so there was some legal basis for punishment.

well that changes everything

 

[Hello? This is Hailun!]

In this particular case, the kid who took the video did not make their partner aware of the recording, so there was some legal basis for punishment.

So he did something shady and freaked out over the potential consequences?


I dunno if being in a registry for life is the proper consequence but I don't have to make that call

 

[Earthbound64]

It was a crime, so the police should have been brought in while handling it.

 

[Valkerionseven]

As someone who grew up right when this stipulation started to come into effect, of kids distributing photos/videos of themselves also being put in the umbrella of child pornography, it kinda blows my mind it still happens so much. Schools seriously gotta drive this fucking point home that the law ain't playing around when it comes to this stuff. Like others said when people take videos and pictures and shit, more often than not its getting passed around. ESPECIALLY at this age range.

As to what side of the fence you are on with the argument of the punishment for kids doing this is another thing. The reason its so harsh, and includes sex offender status as being on the table, is because it quite literally is child porn as stated. Underage sexually explicit content. Some of which more often than not can be pretty damn traumatizing for kids when it gets out and passed around a campus and beyond. It seems harsh on paper but it is because stuff has gotten out in the past and ruined lives.

But the main argument of the parents, they should have called us first... maybe but I've rarely seen a school incident where the parent was called first, then the kid was called in, unless it needed to be in that order for one reason or another. It's always been the school admins first to assess wtf is happening then calling the parents if its something that needs to be addressed. They don't have much argument on that side of things for me at least.

 

[anonymous_abc]

.

 

[Foffy]

Awfully dumb to target people like this in child porn claims. The issue here is more of the labels and outright "absolute" problem, but usually when we're dealing with child porn, it's always an adult doing something to underage people. Dealing with consenting underage people just shows the problem of making a law so tight and not loose for cases like this. This is far different than someone making a website selling this shit.

But hey, what else to expect..?

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Parents always need to drive this point home.

If you're in trouble and the school is asking questions about anything with legality, don't say a word and demand that your parents are present.

The school is not your friend, the police are not your friend, and the idea of having the school officials interview and interrogate a kid before calling his parents is so fucking wrong.

 

[Aizo]

I never heard of anyone who takes videos of themselves having sex with someone and NOT sharing it ever.

You never hear about it... because they don't share it hahahah.

Seriously. A couple of my exes made videos with me. I kept them to myself completely until we broke up, and then I deleted them. No sharing whatsoever. I imagine it's not that uncommon.

Why would I share it with anyone? Had even more exes send me pictures, which I also deleted and never shared.

 

[Hesh]

For an extremely sensitive matter like this I feel that the parents should have been contacted to set-up up a meeting between the family and the school to go over the severity of the issue. Unless there was some pressing matter that the school absolutely had to sequester the student immediately then it feels negligent for the school to bombard a minor with that sort of talk without his parent or parents present to help him understand and cope with what he's being told.

As such, I definitely feel like the school messed up here. It's a damn shame that it lead to a loss of life.

 

[Earthbound64]

Awfully dumb to target people like this in child porn claims. The issue here is more of the labels and outright "absolute" problem, but usually when we're dealing with child porn, it's always an adult doing something to underage people. Dealing with consenting underage people just shows the problem of making a law so tight and not loose for cases like this. This is far different than someone making a website selling this shit.

But hey, what else to expect..?

--->

In this particular case, the kid who took the video did not make their partner aware of the recording

 

[ascii42]

It counts as child pornography if both parties are underage and the video/picture is not shared?

The real kicker is getting tried as an adult for doing so.

 

[shandy706]

You never hear about it... because they don't share it hahahah.

Seriously. A couple of my exes made videos with me. I kept them to myself completely until we broke up, and then I deleted them. No sharing whatsoever. I imagine it's not that uncommon.

Why would I share it with anyone? Had even more exes send me pictures, which I also deleted and never shared.

Wonder what the chances are that this is true on average?

I'm sure everyone says this, haha.

 

[squall23]

Awfully dumb to target people like this in child porn claims. The issue here is more of the labels and outright "absolute" problem, but usually when we're dealing with child porn, it's always an adult doing something to underage people. Dealing with consenting underage people just shows the problem of making a law so tight and not loose for cases like this. This is far different than someone making a website selling this shit.

But hey, what else to expect..?

But the girl didn't consent to having the video taken.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Wonder what the chances are that this is true on average?

I'm sure everyone says this, haha.

I think the fact that the school officials found the teen's phone packed with underaged nudes his friends had shared with him tilts the needle towards "if it's on someone's phone it isn't a secret" in general.

And it's extremely unlikely that the willing-or-not subjects of said media consented to its distribution, which is probably why the officials opted to treat it like a crime had happened.

 

[Haly]

The law needs reform but this topic probably looks too unappealing for any politician to touch.

 

[Foffy]

--->

Ohh, that makes it much darker.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

I never heard of anyone who takes videos of themselves having sex with someone and NOT sharing it ever.

I have dozens of times.

 

[OG Shaka Zulu]

Count me in on team "I don't share shit". All that stuff is for my personal enjoyment and it's rather shitty to share nudes/personal porn without permission.

 

[Dead Man]

The suicide of the honor-roll student underscored a dilemma for schools when confronting students suspected of recording and sharing sexual images: Should school officials wait until parents arrive to pose questions and search cellphones for illicit photos or video? Or do they, as de facto parents, have the authority to investigate crimes that might include child pornography?

What the fuck is this false dilemma bullshit. If they are a minor you wait until their parents are there unless there is a pressing need for immediate information.

 

[Dyle]

Fuck man, why does Chicagoland have so many teen suicides. The way he just died is absolutely tragic and too damn familiar to me

It's pretty clear the school mishandled the situation, they should have called his parents right away, before they asked any questions of him. Without some sort of time issue and no threat of violence, they should have brought them in instantly. They made an awful situation worse and should have recognized the importance of both calling his parents and keeping an eye on him.

 

[Aizo]

Wonder what the chances are that this is true on average?

I'm sure everyone says this, haha.

Yeah, I'm sure many say they delete it and just keep it. I get it, but it's creepy. One of my exes was on the phone with me a few days after we broke up, and asked if I could delete the videos of us. I deleted them while on the phone with her. I can't deal with dishonesty, especially something that personal. That's not your SO anymore, so it feels voyeuristic. It's also uncomfortable to have something like that without permission.

So thankful that I deleted stuff on my old computer thousands of miles away after high school, or else the things my girlfriend and I would be considered child porn. Scary stuff. Someone could be held accountable much later for having something they made with a girlfriend or boyfriend while underage, even years after the fact in the event that they forgot to delete something.

I should also wipe that drive so that stuff can never be recovered.

I have dozens of times.

I'm going to assume you mean that you have taken videos/pictures dozens of times, and you've additionally never shared them. Your reply sounds like the opposite, but I'm gonna guess the best. I also had tons I never shared with a single person.

 

[SugarDaddy]

School handled that situation terribly, wow.

 

[Aaronology]

In this particular case, the kid who took the video did not make their partner aware of the recording, so there was some legal basis for punishment.

For the sake of accuracy: The file was in video form but nothing was visible; It was the audio of the encounter that the boy played to 4 friends that got him in trouble.