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Super Best Friends |OT19| Three-Fifths of a Thread
- Thread starter Glitchesarecool
- Start date
FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
Tbf, I wouldn't credit the guys so much as just the nature of the levels. The painted world and Anor Londo proper are going to be nightmares for this because their level designs are just a lot more complex.
I would adore a luck build where Woolie was styling and profiling all over the place with Toothpick in hand. Also, it's okay. I'd be mad to that Woolie is avoiding toxic too because he has a weapon with good range
Side note: I hate this numbers=fun mentality with souls games. What are you? An Accountant? Good on you where having the biggest numbers means you have fun but I know these games like the back of my hand and straight up my eyes gloss whenever I see certain weapons because everyone fucking uses them. Good on Woolie for actively trying to play these games different than the run of the mill youtuber. Please don't try and subject me to your boring playstyles.
For the record, if Woolie died in Anor Londo, he would have been sent back to the beginning of the area where the gargoyles leave him, not Sens Fortress, so it wouldn't be that bad. Not saying Pat knew this (I can almost guarantee he doesn't) but just as a fun tidbit. Also, if Woolie has fun with the toothpick why is it such a big deal? This isn't a speedrun, he doesn't need to blaze through enemies.
Sorry, if I come off mean or something, still really salt about that Halbred
tbf Pat's definitely doing this on purpose in response to criticism that he guides Woolie too much and Woolie doesn't discover stuff for himself.
I'm also finding the play through a bit annoying to watch even though I never made it this far. But I guess that lessens the frustration since I have no idea where things are. I still get annoyed everytime Woolie inches forward and then decides to go back, but then decides to go back forward and bleh.
Edit: Also, I used the Partizan when I played Dark Souls so I find the hate it's getting to be hilarious.
Edit: Edit: I am also pro Uchi though
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Didn't actually know that it sends you to the start of Anor Londo since I've never actually died before the bonfire. Even on my first run I was so paranoid that I avoided/fled from the giants and found the bonfire ASAP.
Also no amount of "at least it's different" is going to save the terribleness of the Partizan. He's seen how inferior it is to his Uchi several times and continues to switch back to it despite that (just to switch back to Uchi soon after because he runs into a wall). Using unconventional weapons is fine with a clear understanding of the mechanics and can manipulate them in your favor. But these clearly aren't the LPers for that.
Edit: And despite the criticism I do enjoy the DS LP. This is just commentary on their character flaws holding them back.
Edit2: Also if Woolie absolutely has to use a poking spear it would have been nice if Pat had suggested the Pike waaaaaay back 10-15 episodes ago.
I'm not surprised that the guys are quitting, taking time off, moving to streams, and showing other clear signs of unhappiness. Seems like they've been catching shit on every LP and a bunch of videos since Bloodborne. They go too slow and try to understand things in Bloodborne, they catch shit. They powergame to keep the pace up in DS3, they catch shit. They stop trying to understand stuff and talk through Let It Die, they catch shit. Pat has explicitly stated and demonstrated his survival horror playstyle for years, and they get shit in RE7. Woolie wants to experience Dark Souls his own way, like anyone else, nah that's not how powergamers want it played they catch shit.
They get shit for playing too well. For not playing well enough. For not knowing enough. For knowing too much. For playing standard strategies, or for doing what they want. They get shit for not playing the right fighting games, they get shit for not playing fighting games right. The only time they didn't get shit lately was Omikron and that's because all the negativity was on the game.
The youtube comments are borderline abusive at this point. They've built their channel on "haha we suck" jokes, but the harder the fans go in on those jokes anymore the less the guys laugh along. It's their job sure, but they sound like they're working for an overbearing boss recently.
They get shit for playing too well. For not playing well enough. For not knowing enough. For knowing too much. For playing standard strategies, or for doing what they want. They get shit for not playing the right fighting games, they get shit for not playing fighting games right. The only time they didn't get shit lately was Omikron and that's because all the negativity was on the game.
The youtube comments are borderline abusive at this point. They've built their channel on "haha we suck" jokes, but the harder the fans go in on those jokes anymore the less the guys laugh along. It's their job sure, but they sound like they're working for an overbearing boss recently.
MarioHead3
Banned
I am the WoolieWatcher.
FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
I ain't the WoolieWatcher. I would have loved to seen them get gravelorded. Mostly because it never happens which is a shame. I wish theyd bring it back.
MarioHead3
Banned
After all these years I still don't know what gravelording is.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
I too don't know what gravelording is and was confused by that message... and I have over 500 hours into DS1 on PC, and at least a hundred more from when it was only on console.
While I agree that the overall fanbase has turned into kind of a clingy, meme-y, abusive mess, I think you're fooling yourself if you don't think the guys themselves have been producing lower quality content. They've been opting more and more for low effort low quality content over higher effort higher quality content for a while now, which just so happens to be what appeals to a wider/younger/less mature viewer base. The worst thing these guys could do is go down the Game Grumps route.
FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
Again, I mostly blame Pat for this. That guy plays the souls games the same way all the time and it baffles me on a personal level. (If we're going to get real, and go way far back. The person whose fault this really is is
The fucks who nerfed lightning in DSII
I was going to post something about "Gravelords are the best covenant" but I might as well explain what the best covenant does!
Kay, Gravelords are basically just black world tendency from Demon's Souls, but instead of yourself, you do it to other players. You go to an area, use the gravelord item(can't remember what its called) and that adds a bunch of things to other players worlds if they're in teh same shard (including a tiny, unique crab looking enemy). It's mostly just black phantom version of enemies. Think the lead up to to Man eater mildred(blanking on her name) in world 1-1 in Demon's. If I remember right, you find that crab looking enemy (or maybe just kill the unique black phantom enemies) kill them, and you can invade the gravelord and fuck their shit up, stopping the gravelording of other players.
It's actually really cool and I've always enjoyed it. The problem is Gravelords are an endgame covenant and they have to be in the same level range as you. So you only ever see it in NG+ which a lot less people tend to do. Its a really neat idea that just was not designed properly for this game.
I honestly could not tell you if their quality of content has drastically dropped. I've never been the type to watch every single video of theirs, or stick with an LP's entire duration if I wasn't being entertained. They've always had content that I thought was dull, and stuff that I thought was great. Really thinking about it, I might actually be enjoying more of their content now than any other time.
But like you've also noticed, a lot of flak for quite awhile has been primarily meme-y or contradictory crud. I don't see too much discussion on "lower quality" other than when editing screw ups happen. The responses to their early Souls LP's have been most baffling to me because Dark Souls achieved initial internet attention off the back of hundreds of channels painfully, stupidly struggling through the game in the most inane and frustrating ways. Yet their fanbase was totally not on board with that. I'm still not sure what most of the fanbase wants from those LPs.
How do you personally think their quality has dropped?
VidulaSaix
Member
Woolie's reaction to the painted world...
Blame Pat for funneling him to it when he wanted to explore Anor Londo more.
Glitchesarecool
Member
I wouldn't say their quality has dropped any more than it usually falters. It just happens to be Dark Souls. Much more fun with games that people don't know obsessively front and back. For the most part I've been enjoying the Resident Evil run, it's just Pat's little particular things he does that are starting to drive me up the wall after watching weeks of it now.
Then again I'm not watching the Parasite Eve 2 series because I thought that looked like hot garbage from episode one.
I think a better direction for the channel might be something more heavily edited, but I know that will never happen with the SBF.
Then again I'm not watching the Parasite Eve 2 series because I thought that looked like hot garbage from episode one.
I think a better direction for the channel might be something more heavily edited, but I know that will never happen with the SBF.
It's just a lot of little things. The elimination of brawls in favor of FNF is a good overall example, since brawls actually had them figuring out a game in order to play it somewhat competitively, which added stakes and made the videos pretty fun to watch. FNF/SMS on the other hand has them playing games they've never touched with absolutely zero motivation to learn how to play. They just flail around for about 30 minutes, maybe talk about whats going on on screen for a bit, and call it a video. Easy, quick, low effort, low quality.
Blind/Double blind LPs are also a problem imo. I know they've always done them, but I feel like they were smarter with their choices early on, while now they're picking big new releases that they know will get the most views. It can be funny when they play a shit game that nobody cares about blind, but when they're playing good games (especially when its a game one or both of them want to play) it's painful watching them struggle (especially when they refuse to do any prior research), and I feel like they're under pressure to "perform" which also taints video quality and hurts their enjoyment during a first playthrough of a game they love, which in turn hurts my enjoyment as a viewer. They shouldn't be lamenting on the podcast about how much relief they feel over being able to finally play a game like Nioh themselves... Just play the damn game, then do higher quality LP in the future.
I know a chunk of their audience enjoys them acting like idiots, but I'd argue that that portion of the fanbase growing larger is partially what's responsible for them getting away with low effort videos like Minecraft Story Mode since some people just want their presence (and this is where I start to get Game Grump vibes). It's almost like they've realized that they've become characters, and they can get away with just putting out whatever because that portion of their audience just wants to be exposed to those characters every day and nothing more.
As far as the Souls LPs go, I'm probably not the best guy to ask since I'd prefer if they never happened tbh. I already refuse to watch them because I know I wouldn't enjoy watching people bumble through a Souls game (and I'm mostly a lore guy anyway) but I've kept up with people's impressions and it just sounds like they weren't games that should have been LPed.
I think I'm rambling at this point. I'll just say that I think the major problem is a degree of apathy from the guys regarding their work, and if you get the sense that a creator doesn't care about their work, then you can't expect the audience to care either. Nobody wants pro MLG quality gameplay from these guys, but we do want some degree of effort and attention put into their videos, and plopping the camera down for 30 minutes of struggling isn't that. That could also be one reason why so many of the guys are burning out and branching off into their own creative outlets.
VidulaSaix
Member
The biggest problem is that they started actually listening to their fan base. While some of us may have constructive things to say, the ones that don't vastly outnumber those that do. We're not all going to watch them and give nothing but praise. If something from an episode annoys us, we'll let it be known. If something from an episode hypes us up, we'll let it be known.
Outside of the guys themselves, the fan base has become one of my biggest problems with the SBFP in the past year and a half. They're so split on both sides that it either borders on the lines of complete and total ass kissing or utterly unwarranted and unabashed hate. The problem with this is that when anyone such as myself or Edzi says anything about them that isn't praise, regardless of how we say it it's immediately seen as too harsh and that we're being too mean. I hate the word, but it's become a bit of a hugbox.
VidulaSaix
Member
DS1 is fine. My (and many others) gripes about is is how unbelievably wrong the information Pat giving to Woolie is. Lucky, some fans out there are willing to explain to Woolie where Pat was wrong and correct him. Those fans are not the Youtube comments.
There's always a group that doesn't like it, but, as with all Soulsborne games, there's a group who are pissed that they aren't playing the optimal way and whatnot.
I don't think Pat and Woolie are letting themselves get bogged down by those guys, though. They know full well they exist by this point and just ignore them. And they're probably also thankful that they don't have to play any more Souls games after this, and can enjoy Nioh on their own time (thank god for that).
edit: Personally I think its just hilarious Pat giving Woolie wrong information, but that's just me.
I like the Dark Souls LP also. That last episode at Sen's is excellent. Woolie probably shouldn't have gone in the Painted World, but whatever; it's not that big a deal. It is a bit odd what Pat chooses to give to Woolie and what he doesn't at moments, but I appreciate that they're editing out a lot of the redundant type of segments they kept in the Bloodborne and Souls 3 LPs.
RE7's good too, but the presumptuousness on both Matt and Pat's part on it is as agitating as it is entertaining at times. If there isn't already a compilation needs to be made for every time they say Oh, there's no way the game does this followed by the game doing that a couple minutes later. I'm surprised they didn't decide to just roll with it hours ago.
I haven't looked at Parasite Eve 2 because I think the LP of the first kinda sucked.
RE7's good too, but the presumptuousness on both Matt and Pat's part on it is as agitating as it is entertaining at times. If there isn't already a compilation needs to be made for every time they say Oh, there's no way the game does this followed by the game doing that a couple minutes later. I'm surprised they didn't decide to just roll with it hours ago.
I haven't looked at Parasite Eve 2 because I think the LP of the first kinda sucked.
I've liked every souls LP including this one. Since I'm a scrub I live vicariously through their play throughs.
Literally the only thing that's really bothered me has been Woolie's indecisive back-and-forth when looking for the non-critical path.
I totally agree that Brawls were more fun than FNF/SMS. But I actually think they're playing as characters way less now. Back then, they were playing up their personalities much more. The kayfabe is broken now, and I think that's part of why the channel feels more like "guys with a camera": because that's what they are. Once they started hitting up conventions and social media harder, they had to dial the act down.
I very much enjoy clever editing and informed gameplay from other channels so I can agree with wanting more of that. I don't really know if the channel actually has less of that now, because I don't think it ever had too much of it anyway. The fans make it feel like they couldn't even do an informed LP though. The smallest inaccuracies are blown up and thrown in their face so relentlessly. It probably is both the guys and the toxic community contributing to the recent atmosphere on the channel, though. I don't think They've really changed much, and that can be as bad as changing too much. Thanks for sharing!
Listening to the fanbase definitely seems to have bitten these guys. This DS1 LP feels not outright hostile, but discernibly contentious on their part. I wasn't trying to stifle your criticisms, if that's how it appears. I don't think I've really seen too much of anything "too harsh" come out of this particular place.
Now see this I don't get much. The vast majority of everything anyone's ever said about Dark Souls is wrong. I can't relate to finding it gripe-worthy and if I did I'd just stop watching. I don't think you're wrong for feeling that way as long as someone is as sane as you are, haha. Just don't personally get it.
This is mostly true, though some of them tend to slip into their own memes more than others. But I was mostly referring to them possibly getting complacent since a large portion of the fanbase is content with just hearing their voices/personalities every day.
Gotcha.
VidulaSaix
Member
I prefer their personalities myself, but I don't ask for that in LP's. I have the podcast for that. I used to watch almost every single one of their LP's, but now I only watch the games I'm interested in hearing them banter about. One of the biggest issue with the LP's for me is that with their current formats it's more about random banter and less about the game itself, which for games I have no stake in does nothing to really sell the game to me. I understand that often times that's not their goal with things like Deadly Premonition, but when it's the sole purpose of something like Titanfall 2 and Pat just blitzes through everything and appears to make every effort to ignore most of the cool things in favor of GOTTA GO FAST, it's bothersome.
And hams, I wasn't implicating you of being one of those people. Just that the fan base in general has become like that.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
It's fine it just highlights some of the biggest flaws between Pat and Woolie. I'm still enjoying it, especially for moments such as Tarkus.
Cool, didn't think so but wanted to clarify just in case.
To be fair the Pat is wrong thing is also 90% a meme, and 100% annoying. So far in the DS1 LP he basically remembered all the things that actually matter, i.e where to go, where the secrets are etc. The things he gets wrong are just irrelevant minutiae IMO. The min-maxing numbercrunching stuff actually matters way less in Souls games than people seem to think it does since you can basically make anything work.. In practice it just means you have to take an extra swing or dodgeroll an extra attack which is not really a big deal for someone decent at action games.
All that said, I have to admit being mildly annoying at Woolie sticking with his most basic fire spells.
They'll likely do some DLC shenanigans.
Okay, this is actually pretty good...
Glitchesarecool
Member
If the next episode is the last I think I'll be really happy.
"Oh wow they're giving me a billion of these [machine gun bullets]" -- Switches to pistol that has 13 shots.
"Oh wow they're giving me a billion of these [machine gun bullets]" -- Switches to pistol that has 13 shots.
Don't really agree on the first point. Players clearly weren't meant to directly find bonfires directly all the time (or at all) and having someone tell you the most direct path constantly dilutes the the experience somewhat. For example Woolie already encountered only a very 'light' version of the the whole trip down into blighttown where you're essentially stuck there without an easy way back for a long time. I feel giving Woolie some air to make mistakes makes the experience somewhat closer to intended.
Sen's fortress was a good example of this too, where you can tell the games after DS1 definitely toned down the, no fuck you, now do it for real factor, and that Woolie didn't really experience that all that much yet.
I feel people also lose sight of the fact that this playthrough is only infefficient by speedrun standard and still like about 500% more effecient than when you played this blind at home for the first time.
Woolie getting 'caught' in the painted world was fine I feel, as that is also something that's meant to catch you off guard, and this is as good a time as any to do it.
To be fair that's actually the correct choice, although probably by accident.
The pistol kills faster than the machinegun, even more so with the upgraded ammo.
Glitchesarecool
Member
thank god they have billy
To be fair that's actually the correct choice, although probably by accident.
The pistol kills faster than the machinegun, even more so with the upgraded ammo.
Not when he whiffs five headshots lol.
The machine gun is secretly crap.
So all Pat has left is
the death gauntlet and the return to kitchen
He's barely been checked in. Wish he stayed on his break tbh.
Also I was so happy to see Pat take loads of rounds with him oh wait he dumped them back in for no reason lol.
Frozenprince
Banned
I like that Pat gives shit direction, if he guided him through the whole game at an optimal pace it would just be watching yet another good but not OMG AMAZING dark souls LP.
TC McQueen
Member
I think the biggest problem they've got right now is that they're game generalists and not fanboys/specialists in any one game, so they can never play as good as some people want or know all the lore as deep as someone who just replays the same game over and over again and reads all the novels/comics. The closest they come to being specialists is stuff they've worked on or Resident Evil/Silent Hill, because Patt has super into that, and maybe Star Trek (although they've only done one video about a Trek game). I think that lack of specializing has helped and hurt them, because it means that there's a whole lot of variety in their content, but it also means that an LP/video looks bad to a viewer who is more skilled/experienced in a specific game/franchise.
Glitchesarecool
Member
I would never wish for them to play any Trek game.
Make it a Pat Stares At video, commenting about the deep lore universe of Trek while playing FF14 or something. "Pat Shits on Janeway for Two Hours Straight."
Make it a Pat Stares At video, commenting about the deep lore universe of Trek while playing FF14 or something. "Pat Shits on Janeway for Two Hours Straight."
Imperfected
Member
Are you nerds complaining about having Dark Souls and a new Resident Evil LP running simultaneously, again?
I swear to god your father Matt will turn this car around and we will go right back to three straight weeks of UbiSoft hot takes and Sonic games if I hear one more peep from the backseat.
I swear to god your father Matt will turn this car around and we will go right back to three straight weeks of UbiSoft hot takes and Sonic games if I hear one more peep from the backseat.
Pat has approximate knowledge of many things
TC McQueen
Member
Too late, they already did one of the TNG games and Matt bought like 3-4 of them before he went on the long vacation.
FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
After some reflection, once you get really deep into a game abd someone bungles through it, its really really really easy to be pissy about it. Normally im not either, and in a bit of irony its Pats need to optimize that pisses me off. Remember in the Nier Lp when he didn't use Dark Phantasm, a really dope skill, once?