Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 9: F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5

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GiantBreadbug said:
- The wording on whether or not the leaker has already revealed all the newcomers is ambiguous at best. If the only newcomers we have yet to see are Chrom, Shulk, and Chorus Kids, then that would mean Smash 4 would be introducing 14 characters (if you count Mii Fighter variations, which I do). A respectable number, for sure. But I pegged Sakurai as just a tad more ambitious with the roster in this entry, regardless of his statements on the matter. This game's main attraction is the characters playable, so while I wouldn't be upset (not by a long shot) if this were the final host of newcomers, it would honestly surprise me a little, just because it doesn't reek of that Sakurai Ambition (TM) that is present in every aspect of all his games. Now please don't misinterpret this to mean I think Sakurai has to add X number of characters for me to consider his game ambitious. It's just a feeling I have about the man's philosophy on making games.
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People were saying this after Brawl's roster leaked.

Besides, this game seems plenty ambitious to me -- Sakurai's making the game on two different platforms, there are a ton of customization elements, Smash Run (with 70+ enemies), more new items than Brawl introduced, a lot of new Assist Trophies/Poké Balls, and so on. 47+ characters is still a lot. It's not like the veterans are just ported over from Brawl.
 
Mr. Smiley said:
And we still don't know what the Wii U equivalent to Smash Run for Single Player content.

If there is any of the sort.
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We don't even know about all of the 3DS's single player content yet. We've seen snippets of it in the E3 trailer, but it's a lot more than just Smash Run.
 
GiantBreadbug said:
Okay, I'm on board with the Sal Romano leak, but I still don't think we have the full story.
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You can think what you want, but your whole post comes off as someone really in denial. Just a few things:
- Lucas is much more likely to be cut than Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Snake. While I'm not expecting those characters either, we have no real solid reason to expect them to be gone. Compare this to Lucas, who we know was considered to be cut at some point in development. Even if you take the "there will be as few cuts as possible" idea, Lucas is still the most likely cut, since we know they considered cutting him. Characters like Snake and the Pokemon and whoever else you want to imagine would come next, since we haven't heard anything about them.
- A tad more ambitious? He completely recreated a few veterans, made two different games each with their own stages, game modes, and trophies, made completely new movesets for all characters (including a newcomer with completely unique custom moves and another newcomer with three sets of completely unique custom moves), added in stage bosses, and still gave us 14 newcomers on top of everything else. And we're getting DLC after that!
-Everything we know about the select screen suggests that there are 47/48 characters before DLC, which means you can't add more newcomers without cutting even more veterans.
 
Ryce said:
People were saying this after Brawl's roster leaked.

Besides, this game seems plenty ambitious to me -- Sakurai's making the game on two different platforms, there are a ton of customization elements, Smash Run (with 70+ enemies), more new items than Brawl introduced, a lot of new Assist Trophies/Poké Balls, and so on. 47+ characters is still a lot. It's not like the veterans are just ported over from Brawl.
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The veterans getting overhauled. (Some like never before) actually does lend credibility to a sub-50 roster. But I don't see how someone could say Brawl's roster was small at all. There were 16 newcomers (with 4 cuts, 3 of whom were clones).

Anyway, I'm not saying this game is in any way bad if that's all the newcomers. That's a lot of amazing content. But honestly I seriously expected the roster to touch 50 (I thought it would be exactly 50). If it doesn't, that's a non issue. But I do to know why it feels odd to me.
 
Beelzebufo said:
You can think what you want, but your whole post comes off as someone really in denial. Just a few things:
- Lucas is much more likely to be cut than Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Snake. While I'm not expecting those characters either, we have no real solid reason to expect them to be gone. Compare this to Lucas, who we know was considered to be cut at some point in development. Even if you take the "there will be as few cuts as possible" idea, Lucas is still the most likely cut, since we know they considered cutting him. Characters like Snake and the Pokemon and whoever else you want to imagine would come next, since we haven't heard anything about them.
- A tad more ambitious? He completely recreated a few veterans, made two different games each with their own stages, game modes, and trophies, made completely new movesets for all characters (including a newcomer with completely unique custom moves and another newcomer with three sets of completely unique custom moves), added in stage bosses, and still gave us 14 newcomers on top of everything else. And we're getting DLC after that!
-Everything we know about the select screen suggests that there are 47/48 characters before DLC, which means you can't add more newcomers without cutting even more veterans.
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Honestly, and I'm so sorry if I come off sounding rude, but you taking the leak as gospel and preaching it as fact every chance you get is just the slightest bit obnoxious. It's not fact. And I'm not in denial, I'm being skeptical about a leak from someone whose information is known to be a little dated.

I have no horse in this race. I'm trying to be a little even handed in discussing the leak though.
 
GiantBreadbug said:
The veterans getting overhauled. (Some like never before) actually does lend credibility to a sub-50 roster. But I don't see how someone could say Brawl's roster was small at all. There were 16 newcomers (with 4 cuts, 3 of whom were clones).

Anyway, I'm not saying this game is in any way bad if that's all the newcomers. That's a lot of amazing content. But honestly I seriously expected the roster to touch 50 (I thought it would be exactly 50). If it doesn't, that's a non issue. But I do to know why it feels odd to me.
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If we end up with 48, you can count Mii 3 times if that makes you feel any better lol

GiantBreadbug said:
Honestly, and I'm so sorry if I come off sounding rude, but you taking the leak as gospel and preaching it as fact every chance you get is just the slightest bit obnoxious. It's not fact. And I'm not in denial, I'm being skeptical about a leak from someone whose information is known to be a little dated.

I have no horse in this race. I'm trying to be a little even handed in discussing the leak though.
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You obviously have a horse in this race. You're a fan of Lucas, and you want your prediction of at least 50 characters to be correct. It's causing you to make wild assumptions an objective person wouldn't.
 
I really need more information. Did he get told that Lucas was definitively cut? Or was he just not put into the build that he saw? To get a really intimate knowledge of who or who isn't going, this leaker would likely have to be quite high up.
 
tumblr_n7nvfu2Ae61swll5zo1_500.jpg


This has to be a joke but I'm still laughing anyway.
 
MasterBalls said:
I really need more information. Did he get told that Lucas was definitively cut? Or was he just not put into the build that he saw? To get a really intimate knowledge of who or who isn't going, this leaker would likely have to be quite high up.
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We were only told of "internal debates" at the studio of whether to cut Lucas or not. That's it but that fact alone made his then-perceived definite reappearance very questionable.
 
MasterBalls said:
I really need more information. Did he get told that Lucas was definitively cut? Or was he just not put into the build that he saw? To get a really intimate knowledge of who or who isn't going, this leaker would likely have to be quite high up.
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There were talks about whether or not to include Lucas in the game. It's likely that the leaker's information is relatively old, when the roster was finalized (incorrect E3 reveal plans, calling Greninja Pokemon from XY, etc).

Of course, outside of Sonic, all Smash Bros character rosters are finalized very early on from what I understand.
 
MasterBalls said:
I really need more information. Did he get told that Lucas was definitively cut? Or was he just not put into the build that he saw? To get a really intimate knowledge of who or who isn't going, this leaker would likely have to be quite high up.
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We have no idea of what this leaker's position is that he gets this information.
IMO, I think he probably works with whoever does the CG for the character trailers, which explains why he knows very, very little about stages, vets, etc, and why he seems to release what characters he knows of in batches.
 
It's gonna be a fantastic day when Lucas is confirmed via the pic of the day and everyone flips out.

At this point I'm just waiting for something to hard deconfirm the Gematsu leak. While I'd personally be cool with ti being true simply because it has a Rhythm Heaven character and I really, really want a RH character, people saying it as gospel and complete truth is getting really old.
 
Mr. Smiley said:
We were only told of "internal debates" at the studio of whether to cut Lucas or not. That's it but that fact alone made his then-perceived definite reappearance very questionable.
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That's the only part of the leak that seems off to me. I think the leak as a whole is going to end up being true, but Sakurai mentioned at the roundtable that the roster was decided from the beginning of development, so unless his info is from really early on (which, would be kind of weird, if he only decided to share it right before E3), I would imagine Lucas' fate would already have been decided.
 
OricWindstar said:
That's the only part of the leak that seems off to me. I think the leak as a whole is going to end up being true, but Sakurai mentioned at the roundtable that the roster was decided from the beginning of development, so unless his info is from really early on (which, would be kind of weird, if he only decided to share it right before E3), I would imagine Lucas' fate would already have been decided.
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Sakurai decides the roster early on, but I think it changes over development. Sonic was added and seven characters were cut with Brawl. Melee, on the other hand, had many clones added over the course of development. Having to cut a character for time constraints would not be unprecedented.

That said, I think they'll do their best to squeeze him in, and if not, I'd bet on him being DLC.
 
OricWindstar said:
That's the only part of the leak that seems off to me. I think the leak as a whole is going to end up being true, but Sakurai mentioned at the roundtable that the roster was decided from the beginning of development, so unless his info is from really early on (which, would be kind of weird, if he only decided to share it right before E3), I would imagine Lucas' fate would already have been decided.
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From what I've heard, I think when Sakurai says he decides the roster early on he means which characters are even considered to have any work done on them, and that cuts can still happen after that point. Like he decides a number he thinks would be good and then trims it down when problems arise or time is at stake
 
Hatchtag said:
Sakurai decides the roster early on, but I think it changes over development. Sonic was added and seven characters were cut with Brawl. Melee, on the other hand, had many clones added over the course of development. Having to cut a character for time constraints would not be unprecedented.

That said, I think they'll do their best to squeeze him in, and if not, I'd bet on him being DLC.
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Yeah, I suppose that's true. From the roundtable I got the impression that they hadn't had any changes since the initial roster decision, but I may have been reading too much into it.
 
C.Olimar788 said:
It's gonna be a fantastic day when Lucas is confirmed via the pic of the day and everyone flips out.

At this point I'm just waiting for something to hard deconfirm the Gematsu leak. While I'd personally be cool with ti being true simply because it has a Rhythm Heaven character and I really, really want a RH character, people saying it as gospel and complete truth is getting really old.
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This probably isn't going to happen though.


Hatchtag said:
We have no idea of what this leaker's position is that he gets this information.
IMO, I think he probably works with whoever does the CG for the character trailers, which explains why he knows very, very little about stages, vets, etc, and why he seems to release what characters he knows of in batches.
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Unlikely. He would have known Greninja's name, and wouldn't have said those three additional characters were at last years E3 when they weren't. His information is old.

OricWindstar said:
That's the only part of the leak that seems off to me. I think the leak as a whole is going to end up being true, but Sakurai mentioned at the roundtable that the roster was decided from the beginning of development, so unless his info is from really early on (which, would be kind of weird, if he only decided to share it right before E3), I would imagine Lucas' fate would already have been decided.
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Everything points to his information being from when characters were being finalized early in development. This is why Lucas wasn't decided yet, why Greninja didn't have a name while WFT did, why he didn't know the correct E3 plans, etc.

Hatchtag said:
Sakurai decides the roster early on, but I think it changes over development. Sonic was added and seven characters were cut with Brawl. Melee, on the other hand, had many clones added over the course of development. Having to cut a character for time constraints would not be unprecedented.

That said, I think they'll do their best to squeeze him in, and if not, I'd bet on him being DLC.
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Sonic is the one exception we've ever had I believe. I could be wrong, but I think the clones in Melee were still decided early on.

I also wouldn't expect Lucas as DLC. Who would buy it?
 
Mr. Smiley said:
That too. Jesus.

Edit: Well, I don't think Classic mode is going anywhere.
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Classic Mode's definitely not going anywhere, if only because this seems to be strongly hinting at its return:
nintendo3ds-supersmas8ysit.jpg
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In addition to that, we've got these:
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From a currently unknown game mode, with a KI:U style difficulty slider. Could be a new take on Classic, could be the new All-Star, or it could be some entirely new adventure-esque mode.

Plus we've got shots that look like stadium matches:
nintendo3ds-supersmasq7sy6.jpg
nintendo3ds-supersmasm7s3b.jpg
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Returning Home Run contest, and something that looks like a new take on it. My personal guess is that it's a home run contest spinoff where the "Sandbag" vanishes from the field after the countdown expires, instead of continuing to fly. There's a score visible, so it might just be a bonus game for Classic/Adventure or a Smash Run event.

Then there's this:
nintendo3ds-supersmashts5i.jpg
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A Smash take on Tin Pin Slammer, dropped in the trailer with zero context.

So yeah, there's a lot of content and a lot of mysteries left.
 
Troubled Bat said:
So, are we expecting Shulk as the next newcomer? I hope Chrom is last to be shown.
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I actually kinda hope that Chrom, Chorus Kids and Shulk aren't revealed before release and are hidden unlockables. Reason I say that is because I feel that Pac-Man is a good final newcomer reveal choise. But that's just me.
 
Son Of D said:
I actually kinda hope that Chrom, Chorus Kids and Shulk aren't revealed before release and are hidden unlockables. Reason I say that is because I feel that Pac-Man is a good final newcomer reveal choise. But that's just me.
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I'd be fine with that as well. It's crazy that, worst case scenario, we'll know the full roster by September.
 
Beelzebufo said:
Unlikely. He would have known Greninja's name, and wouldn't have said those three additional characters were at last years E3 when they weren't. His information is old.

Sonic is the one exception we've ever had I believe. I could be wrong, but I think the clones in Melee were still decided early on.

I also wouldn't expect Lucas as DLC. Who would buy it?
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1) His info could still be old despite working on CGI trailers, as Greninja could've not had a final name at that point.
2) There's some good evidence that Dixie made it fairly far before getting the boot, as she's the only one Sakurai's admitted to cutting, and Mewtwo and Roy have a bit more files than the other dropped characters.
3)Undoubtedly enough to profit from it.

ShockingAlberto said:
It doesn't really matter who's left as a surprise, we'll know the entire roster a month before the west gets the game.
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You mean you're not importing a Japanese 3DS and buying it off the eshop? D:
 
IntelliHeath said:
Palutena's Default moveset but I can see stage update as well.
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MaverickHunterAsh said:
Hoping at least one of the remaining pics this week gives us some details on Palutena. As full of hype as Pac-Man is and as surprisingly neat as the Mii Fighters are, the E3 2014 newcomer I REALLY want more details on is Palutena. Right now it kinda feels like her announcement came and went with almost no fanfare, which sucks considering how much of SmashGAF has been hyped for her since that "leak" a few months back. Give us some Palutena info, Samurai!
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Glad I'm not the only one noting the decided lack of Palutena info :/
I honestly sometimes wonder if they've even decided on her defaults yet XD

That all said, I'm still a bit baffled by celestial firework... while I appreciate that it's a multi-hit, it's still a bit too similar to the normal move that produces the skyward beam in front of her if you ask me :o
 
ShockingAlberto said:
It doesn't really matter who's left as a surprise, we'll know the entire roster a month before the west gets the game.
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True, true. Unless you're able to stay away from any gaming sites, youtube (seeing that we've all watched Smash videos we're likely to get a recommended video of an unrevealed character) and from talking about Smash with friends for a month that roster will be revealed to you.
 
The amount of newcomers, assuming that leak is correct, seems just right to me. I'm more curious about who is and isn't returning. Particularly Mewtwo.
 
So I was thinking about today's picture of the day.

If it REALLY is a balloon fight mode... i'll almost never play it. Maybe once. Like home run contest.

What would be REALLY cool is if it (and other similar modes) were implemented into the adventure/classic modes as bonus rounds - similar to the target run. That would actually be a really cool addition. Since it seems like you can choose your path in adventure mode (or whatever it ends up being called) you could always choose NOT to play balloon fight if you didn't like it.
 
Hatchtag said:
1) His info could still be old despite working on CGI trailers, as Greninja could've not had a final name at that point.
2) There's some good evidence that Dixie made it fairly far before getting the boot, as she's the only one Sakurai's admitted to cutting, and Mewtwo and Roy have a bit more files than the other dropped characters.
3)Undoubtedly enough to profit from it.



You mean you're not importing a Japanese 3DS and buying it off the eshop? D:
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Didn't she make it not that far at all? I was under the impression that she was scrapped even earlier than Mewtwo. And I think the idea with Mewtwo was that he was scrapped later than everyone else, but still pretty early in development (when the roster was finalized).

And yeah... I guess that's possible. I guess the important thing is that being unsure about Lucas makes sense.
 
OricWindstar said:
That's the only part of the leak that seems off to me. I think the leak as a whole is going to end up being true, but Sakurai mentioned at the roundtable that the roster was decided from the beginning of development, so unless his info is from really early on (which, would be kind of weird, if he only decided to share it right before E3), I would imagine Lucas' fate would already have been decided.
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That makes sense, but wasn't Wolf or some veterans in Brawl added late in devolopment? Hypothetical: I would think yes, while the roster was finalized at the early stages of development, that Lucas was a low priority character compared to other veterans. Let's say the work load finally caught up to the team that led to a low priority character like Lucas to be debated on whether he should be cut/moved to DLC.

It's just a scenario believing that not everything is going as planned through development leading to sacrifices and explaining why the Gematsu leak would say a thing when the roster was finalized long ago.

It could very much be, and most likely is, just info collected way earlier on, maybe explaining why he/she's never mentioned Rosalina.

Berordn said:
Classic Mode's definitely not going anywhere, if only because this seems to be strongly hinting at its return:
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Doh! We did see Master Hand. Guys going all out on two platforms.

Hyperactivity said:
It was Sonic, and his inclusion delayed the game
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Oh yeah. Well out the window with that.
 
Mr. Smiley said:
That makes sense, but wasn't Wolf or some veterans in Brawl added late in devolopment? Hypothetical: I would think yes, while the roster was finalized at the early stages of development, that Lucas was a low priority character compared to other veterans. Let's say the work load finally caught up to the team that led to a low priority character like Lucas to be debated on whether he should be cut/moved to DLC.

It's just a scenario believing that not everything is going as planned through development leading to sacrifices and explaining why the Gematsu leak would say a thing when the roster was finalized long ago.

It could very much be, and most likely is, just info collected way earlier on, maybe explaining why he/she's never mentioned Rosalina.
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It was Sonic, and his inclusion delayed the game
 
Son Of D said:
True, true. Unless you're able to stay away from any gaming sites, youtube (seeing that we've all watched Smash videos we're likely to get a recommended video of an unrevealed character) and from talking about Smash with friends for a month that roster will be revealed to you.
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All the characters will be in a thread title on GAF, I guarantee it.

At very least, in avatars.
 
The only weird thing about wolf was that he wasn't in SSE proper. He, toon Link, and Jigglypuff were all some weird one-off character w/ one intro cutscene but not featured in any other story-related cutscenes for SSE. It made them FEEL like last-minute inclusions because of that. It's possible that they created the story for SSE while still finalizing characters, I suppose. That's likely not true because I doubt jiggly was ever considered to be cut.
 
I just noticed something.

Assuming the 47 we know of are it, every single one saw a Western release for one of their games.
 
georly said:
The only weird thing about wolf was that he wasn't in SSE proper. He, toon Link, and Jigglypuff were all some weird one-off character w/ one intro cutscene but not featured in any other story-related cutscenes for SSE. It made them FEEL like last-minute inclusions because of that. It's possible that they created the story for SSE while still finalizing characters, I suppose. That's likely not true because I doubt jiggly was ever considered to be cut.
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Yeah, every time people mention that as proof they were last minute additions, I bring this up. I'd be shocked if Jigglypuff was ever considered to be cut. Same with people thinking she's cut from Smash 4, though stranger things have happened.
 
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