Weltall Zero
Member
That's a kind of weird point to make when bosses like Kraid exist, but hey. Look at his sprite in Super Metroid:
Don't tell me the wings couldn't be at least twice as big with no dramatic repercussion over his hurtbox.
Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 9: F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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That's a kind of weird point to make when bosses like Kraid exist, but hey. Look at his sprite in Super Metroid:
Don't tell me the wings couldn't be at least twice as big with no dramatic repercussion over his hurtbox.
MrSaturn99
Member
This picture just makes me so happy.
Hahaha oh wow
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
First picture is all about serious business, and second picture is all about gay, joyful days
User 73706
Banned
That's a kind of weird point to make when bosses like Kraid exist, but hey. Look at his sprite in Super Metroid:
Don't tell me the wings couldn't be at least twice as big with no dramatic repercussion over his hurtbox.
Ridley's actual arena in Supes was really claustrophobic in the first place so that the player would have to make use of verticality with the Space Jump to avoid him.
Him having bigger wings would have made it next-to-impossible to flank him. For reference, here's a quick and dirty mockup of him with doubly large wings:
Zomba13
Member
Well you see, you can make a character grow a hundred times his own size to fit in but you can't shrink a character a bit because that doesn't make sense and would look terrible for reasons.
They never truly left, Ridley is always taking up the entirety of our subconscious thoughts.
I wish that I could atleast have hope that K. Rool would be a playable character but the gematsu leak has shattered that dream.
Seriously why can't we just have atleast 1 new fucking villain, Ganondorf and Bowser were my favourite additions to melee and I liked Wolf and Dedede in Brawl, I want that again but we don't even have 1.
Stage bosses are the single worst addition to smash 4.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Why not? It's overdue since people are hyped for upcoming smash trailer.
Don't takamaru me serious
You're ridley going to start bringing puns into this?
User 73706
Banned
Not for SSB4, I'm talking about his wings within the confines of the 2D games. Kind of OT for this thread, but whatever. Ridley's always had some major advantages over the player in a platforming, contact-hurts environment:
- Floor-sweeping projectiles
- The tail swipe
- Grabbing the player
- Extreme mobility compared to the other bosses
Now, something like Yakuza (spider asshole in Fusion) is a different case because they were making you fight the embodiment of the Space Jump, but the Super Metroid fight is specifically designed to emphasize verticality. You've acquired the Space Jump and the creators want you to use it in order to get the jump on Ridley, avoiding his projectiles and raining down Super Missiles on him. In the Zero Mission fight, while the arena is a little wider, having larger wings would make it difficult to attack him from behind, meaning you wouldn't have an easy "out" from avoiding his tail swipe and claw-grab attacks. Notice that in Super, Ridley's hunched position, even when roaring, is vertical and rectangular, just like the arena you're fighting him in. Enlarging the wings would break that, because you're essentially playing Pong on steroids in this case, but going around him repeatedly instead of side-to-side.
Now, in a "pitfalls kill" environment like in Smash in contrast to a "touching things hurts" environment like in Metroid, Ridley's wings work way better being larger, because you don't necessarily have to worry about losing vital health, and on top of that Ridley doesn't have to occupy the same platform as you. Brawl handled it well with a variety of platform and aerial attacks, including flapping up winds to try and push you off the platform, which is much better-suited for Smash's "edges kill you" environment.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Waluigi not?
Shadow Hog
Member
That doesn't work. :\
This picture just makes me so happy.
The pac man on top is better.
superNESjoe
Member
It might seem a bit K.Rool, but I think the house is full enough already with the addition of Uncle Jesse. No reason to Shulk around though, we're getting Naruto!
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Let us disregard the fact that when upscaling small characters, we don't really remove the fact that they are tiny in contrast to the enemies they fight (and they even keep the aspect of "tininess" as seen in Kirby or Olimar). Ridley on the other hand will have ruined proportions when shrunk as well as losing his size difference.
Annalysis of the threads so far show that this had to happen sooner or later.
superNESjoe
Member
Let's not say things we can't take back.
It's made it too easy for them to just say "Well people like X Villain, instead of making it a playable character like Ganondorf or Bowser, let's just make it randomly appear on a certain stage and occasionally attack the players"
Imagine if stages bosses were in from the beggining and we never got Bowser, Ganon, Dedede, Metaknight and Wolf just because it would be easier to implement them as a stage boss.
Bowser would be part of a scrolling stage like mushroomy kingdom except world 1-4 and when you get to the end he throws hammers and fireballs until one of you touches the axe and lets the stage continue progressing.
Ganondorf would have a tower stage where he destroyed platforms and shot energy balls that players could reflect at each other.
Dedede would just appear on fountain of dreams and attack like he does in the games.
It all sounds terrible and is something I could imagine sakurai would think was really cool.
Finale Fireworker
Member
Yeah, agreed. Stage Bosses sound like a really fun idea that are, only presently, poorly implemented. We don't know if they can be turned off, we don't know how their appearances will be adjusted, and it could make for a WAY more fun and interesting boss rush.
Not75Drops
Member
Honestly, if Samus has her Other M design in this game, Ridley would have probably had his Other M design as well if he was playable.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
And yet if the stage boss in question wasn't obviously Ridley I doubt you'd care.
Have we ever considered the possibility of a MvC3 Sentinel-type character?
It wouldn't be completely out of the question for him to have an alternate model, of course Ridley would be a far more extensive remodeling job than any of the others we've seen yet.
It wouldn't be completely out of the question for him to have an alternate model, of course Ridley would be a far more extensive remodeling job than any of the others we've seen yet.
Weltall Zero
Member
Ridley's actual arena in Supes was really claustrophobic in the first place so that the player would have to make use of verticality with the Space Jump to avoid him.
Him having bigger wings would have made it next-to-impossible to flank him. For reference, here's a quick and dirty mockup of him with doubly large wings:
That's actually four times as big.
/pedantic.
I honestly don't know if that's a worse fate or not actually.
Atleast if he was playable and a boss you could make the argument that the boss version is the other m version seeing as it isn't actually ridey in other m whereas the playable version would be the character proper.
Even if it wasn't Ridley, you still have a perfectly usable stage being ruined in favor of a gimmick, it's the same with Wily's Castle which looked like a great stage until the Yellow Devil appeared.
Weltall Zero
Member
Ridley's actual arena in Supes was really claustrophobic in the first place so that the player would have to make use of verticality with the Space Jump to avoid him.
Him having bigger wings would have made it next-to-impossible to flank him. For reference, here's a quick and dirty mockup of him with doubly large wings:
That's actually four times as big.
/pedantic.
Karsticles
Member
You mean a shitty and gutted version of a character from a past game? Or flying?
PadWarrior
Member
LOL!!!!
superNESjoe
Member
Here's the thing, stage bosses haven't been in from the beginning. We have gotten villains, and your entire argument is based on a hypothetical that there is no point dwelling on considering the majority of the Smash games haven't followed it.
Stage bosses are a new thing to try and add some variety to a couple of levels. Considering the roster of playable characters was selected at the beginning of development, these stage boss characters never had a chance of being playable characters to being with. Whether they were stickers, trophies, assist trophies, or stage bosses, their eligibility as a playable character is in no way affected by this.
We get it, some people really wanted Ridley. So did I. It isn't happening, but at least he's being used in some fashion. If you really don't like Stage Bosses then simply don't play on those stages. It's a feature that is as easily avoidable as terrible stages like Rainbow Cruise, and nowhere near as universally detrimental as tripping.
So please stop exaggerating.
You mean a shitty and gutted version of a character from a past game? Or flying?
Flying and the largest playable character in the cast.
The main drawback would be bottom-tier priority to compensate for his insane range. Anyone sufficiently prepared to read Ridley's attacks would be able to stop him cold.
InvincibleAgent
Member
The most recent Metroid game is a steaming pile of Bendezium. Wait, Other M came out 2 years after Brawl! How could Samus's design come from it?
Can I joke about Mega Man's cannon?
Also, this:
Karsticles
Member
Nemesis is larger, fyi.
Anyway, it depends on how big you mean for Ridley to be. He can't be any bigger than Bowser, who is close to going through platforms right now. Platforms provide a size limiter.
True.
I envisioned something along the lines of 20-40% larger than Bowser.
Part of me thinks all fours could work, but then there's the issue of him taking up a problematic amount of horizontal space (even disregarding the ability to give the tail no hitbox)
NeonZ
Member
As long as he remained bigger than Samus, it'd be fine. No one cares about exact scale. Ridley's scale changed from game to game, and Brawl itself didn't really follow exact scale with other characters. Compare Ganondorf in Twilight Princess with Brawl Ganondorf.
Well, Brawl had two different versions of Ridley as bosses.
Senselessb
Banned
So if gematsu is already 8/11... One more character will make them.....9/11.
My god! Brace yourselves for endless
My god! Brace yourselves for endless
gematsu did 9/11 jokes
I'm willing to bet that some of the stage bosses could have been playable characters and that when they were deciding who was going to be playable, whether or not the character could just be a boss or an assist trophy would have factored into it.
There's practically a 75% chance of K. Rool being a stage boss at this point, even though there's nothing stopping him from being playable unlike ridley who is a stretch or yellow devil who nobody really cares about.
The stage bosses should be more like Yellow Devil instead of main antagonists or rivals if you ask me, nobody's going to be annoyed about them not being playable.
Brainfreeze
Member
You're literally just making things up.
How can you be so mad based off your own baseless speculation?
NeonZ
Member
K.Rool only would make sense as a boss if there were a new stage based on Donkey Kong Country 1-3 or DK64, I think those things are rather unlikely...
superNESjoe
Member
That would be a stupid bet, you're being really dramatic. Considering they mentioned that the roster was the first thing they decided before moving on to any other part of the game's design, it seems unlikely they even had Stage Bosses planned at the time they set the roster. The factor of who became playable was based on who they thought would be the most interesting and work well within the roster, not based around who they could easily sweep away under some gimmick.
While I expected K. Rool to be a Stage Boss or a trophy as well, that is an entirely made up statistic with no real weight.
Again, your entire argument is based around a hypothetical. The reality is that if Ridley is a Stage Boss and not a playable fighter, then if we saw an alternate reality where Stage Bosses weren't a thing then Ridley would just be some sort of trophy. If Sakurai didn't think he would work well, chances are his decision is a bit more educated than yours considering he has been making video games over half his life.
Still no DK stage shown on the WiiU version, Kremlings in smash run, I think there's a very high possibility we'll be getting a gangplank galleon stage with K. Rool as a boss.
Probably because I dislike stage bosses as a basic concept. I think about the thought process about design decisions I dislike way more than anything I think is good, which ends up with me speculating on stuff. Not even that mad.
I find it hard to believe that they fully finalised the roster before taking into consideration stage bosses and assist trophies and any other way they could include characters they might consider 2nd-tier without having to make them playable.
It's a hypothetical but I'm not even talking about Ridley in this conversation, he's always been a stretch, Sakurai has said this multiple times, but there's no reason K. Rool should be a boss instead of playable other than the work load required and "Well, we've already said stage bosses are going to be a thing so we need to come up with someone to use for them".
I'd rather they use characters that are completely unsuitable for being playable or just aren't unique enough as stage bosses or assists trophies though.
I'm fine with Yellow Devil, despite it ruining a stage and I'm somewhat fine with Ridley, despite his inclusion not being impossible and again, ruining a stage.
But I would not be fine with K. Rool being a stage boss.
I also dislike Dark Samus, Dillon, Saki as well as Isaac and Ray (Because let's face it, they're not going to be playable) being assist trophies just because I feel like they should be playable.
Basically I'm of the belief that every franchise represent in smash should have atleast a playable character + playable villain unless completely unfeasible (design-wise), I'm also fine with them just having the main character playable if it's the first time that series has a playable character, but it doesn't feel right that mario, pokemon, zelda, kirby and starfox get villains for their franchise yet the likes of DK and Metroid don't.
And then Xenoblade gets a rep and leaves Golden Sun, Custom Robo and Sin and Punishment fans in the dust.
I'm fine with Yellow Devil, despite it ruining a stage and I'm somewhat fine with Ridley, despite his inclusion not being impossible and again, ruining a stage.
But I would not be fine with K. Rool being a stage boss.
I also dislike Dark Samus, Dillon, Saki as well as Isaac and Ray (Because let's face it, they're not going to be playable) being assist trophies just because I feel like they should be playable.
Basically I'm of the belief that every franchise represent in smash should have atleast a playable character + playable villain unless completely unfeasible (design-wise), I'm also fine with them just having the main character playable if it's the first time that series has a playable character, but it doesn't feel right that mario, pokemon, zelda, kirby and starfox get villains for their franchise yet the likes of DK and Metroid don't.
And then Xenoblade gets a rep and leaves Golden Sun, Custom Robo and Sin and Punishment fans in the dust.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Might not have a choice considering how many villain characters are playable on their own.
I also agree on certain characters as assists not being playable. It's just mocking fans of certain franchises. Especially prevalent with Metroid. You have 2 reps except they are the same character. >:I
And Golden Sun fans such as myself be damned.
I also agree on certain characters as assists not being playable. It's just mocking fans of certain franchises. Especially prevalent with Metroid. You have 2 reps except they are the same character. >:I
And Golden Sun fans such as myself be damned.
MrSaturn99
Member
i certainly felt mocked when color tv-game 15 was announced to be an assist trophy
been waiting for that all my life now
been waiting for that all my life now
Why though? I like when characters that I want playable like Lyn and Waluigi appear as assist trophies. It gives them a significant appearance in the game and lets them interact with all the other characters. Sure, a playable appearance is preferred, but it's the next best thing.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
As long as he remained bigger than Samus, it'd be fine. No one cares about exact scale. Ridley's scale changed from game to game, and Brawl itself didn't really follow exact scale with other characters. Compare Ganondorf in Twilight Princess with Brawl Ganondorf.
Well, Brawl had two different versions of Ridley as bosses.
Yeah I know of Ganondorf. I'd argue that Ganon's easy to do because he's humanoid. Ridley's representation in Brawl is pretty perfect in proportion and balance.
I've officially heard it all.
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