peanutbutterlatte
Member
You're right. Developers never release unfinished builds of games to get players opinions to then fix games.
Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 9: F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
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SliceSabre
Banned
The vast majority of demos and betas I've played.
You're right. Developers never release unfinished builds of games to get players opinions to then fix games.
Yes, an MMO alpha from a western dev is exactly the same as a game demo for a fighting game from a japanese dev that doesn't want it to be seen as a fighting game and is 3 months before release.
And I highly doubt sakurai would actually listen to opinions from the demo anyway, you know what he's like.
Well then you're lucky because I've never had that experience, and smash doesn't exactly have a great track record for this sort of thing.
dryuriev7777
Member
This makes me glad I never really got into the competitive scene for smash. I feel like I would be disappointed in all this analytical competitive viability talk too.
The only thing I actually care/am worried about at this point is whether or not the online will be super shitty again.
The only thing I actually care/am worried about at this point is whether or not the online will be super shitty again.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Definitely with online. I really hope that they would redeem Brawl's online system with Smash 4's online.
Yeah sometimes I wish I could have fun playing casual just to avoid all this disappointment... Cherish that while you can lol
Y'all jumping on me again? No wonder I bailed this salty thread.
I meant disappointment when it comes to the competitive scene. All these "Brawl 2.0" comments and lag comments or whatever will become even more prominent when the game releases.
Anyways, I heard in the 3DS game they replaced the chicken model with ALTTP sprites. Any footage of this? It sounds cool.
I meant disappointment when it comes to the competitive scene. All these "Brawl 2.0" comments and lag comments or whatever will become even more prominent when the game releases.
Anyways, I heard in the 3DS game they replaced the chicken model with ALTTP sprites. Any footage of this? It sounds cool.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
It's not that hard to turn your casual mode on. At least, it's easy for me.
I honestly try but just don't have any fun...
Smash 4's online will probably be just as bare-bones as Brawls. Hopefully the netcode will be better at least.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Salty? I'm being realistic with hardcore fans as you should know. You should know the fact that fans are going to blame 3DS and Mii Fighter for many things.
Many people would blame 3DS for splitting the budget, development, etc because they strongly believe that Wii U would be way better if they didn't split the efforts. Also they would be disappointed if they don't get stages that they wanted on Wii U because Sakurai put it on 3DS version only.
For Mii Fighter, people would blame Sakurai and the teams wasting their time on "36" moves for Mii Fighter where they could spent those works on 3 "real nintendo" characters.
I'm pretty sure that it will recurring a lot right after the games got released, if i'm wrong then I would be happy because I don't want to deal with those things.
And yes, they did replaced the chicken model with sprites. I forget which youtube but I know I saw it.
I can only enjoy casual play until I unlock everything. Then I'm typically annoyed with items on. Well depending on the items. I actually like the ones in Melee and 64 since you could do interesting things with them, specifically the Green Shells.
But yeah, I feel you on that.
lol even to me a person who never played by the competitive rules/ i didn't even know the scene existed back when brawl came out, the game was a dissapointment because it felt soo off from the nature of melee. Exactly after a month i never touched brawl again unlike melee which spent several years with ..and this is from a person who didn't mind playing with items etc :/
superNESjoe
Member
People are going to complain about everything when Smash comes out, which is why I'm going to avoid certain threads like the plague. It happens in every new entry of every franchise. I'll have my group of homies from here to play with and we'll enjoy the game. If something is seriously broken or messed up I'll complain about it, but I won't be ripping the thing to shreds just looking for something to be mad about.
Maybe it's just my imagination but it also seemed to me that Melee and 64 items were less OP...
SliceSabre
Banned
Those people are the absolute worst sigment of the fanbase and all their arguments boil down to are: "The character I like didn't get in and I dislike this character so that character is wasted resources."
I'd say it's because the game tends to lack a smooth flow. There's too many things with and without items that completely stop the gameplay momentum. It can be very frustrating. In Melee and 64 weather you're playing competitively or not you're more in control of your character and able to keep your momentum going when you start up.
MIIverse distilled
I think that's the general sentiment of most people, it seems to continue going in the direction of brawl though because there were quite a few one hit kill items in the demo but those could be subject to change, who knows.
Many of them required a little thought to use. Brawl kinda Mario Karted the items a bit. Don't get me wrong though, Melee and 64 items could be absolutely devastating if used correctly though.
Throw a red shell anywhere and it completely ruins everyone's day lol
This is the shit I'm talking about. There is dash dancing and landing lag hasn't really been increased. It's generally faster than Brawl's while being different on a per character and action basis.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
I agreed. So you would tinkering around with customization movesets, right?
OmegaSmash
Member
Considering how limiting it seems now, I'm not all too hopeful about the online.
SliceSabre
Banned
Enjoying all aspects of Smash is not allowed here or anywhere for that matter.
No there is not dash dancing in any semblance of a meaningful way. Dash Dancing here is literally just running back and forth in place and doesn't even begin to have any of the applications it once did. Landing lag is increased from melee technically but either way it's still bad now and that's all anyone should care about with that
NeonZ
Member
It's not just your imagination. Things like the Dragoon and Final Smash make it clear that certain items are supposed to change even the flow of matches in Brawl, while there was nothing comparable in Melee and the original. It's not only those two items though, several of the old items in Brawl were boosted compared to before, aside from the Pokeball, where they reduced the chance of Legendary Pokemon appearing.
Personally, I enjoy Brawl's implementation of items due to how the affect the match's flow, adding more variety with their presence. And, of course, this isn't Mario Kart, so they can still be turned off for an item distribution closer to Melee's (only you also can turn off exploding crates, unlike there). Of course, it doesn't sound like you play much with items at all anyway.
Turning around left and right on the spot isn't proper dash dancing, it's current implementation is useless as a bait tool, you're not going to fool someone into thinking you're going to dash in with that.
And a few characters have reduced landing lag on certain moves whilst others have been increased to more than brawl, all this does is limit what the character can do.
I'm fine with larger landing lag on certain more powerful aerials so you have a risk and reward tradeoff, but when you let it go too far it makes the move useless in competitive play because it gets to a point where there is no point in using it because other moves can have the same effect because they link into other moves due to lower endlag and they don't have as much risk involved.
Yes there was. The utility is questionable, but it's there. Incidentally, landing lag is there's but it's not meaningful in any way. "Bad" is a massive joke.
You have options, do it and deal with it with the risk, or don't. I can't believe you're arguing against having risk/reward.
The utility isn't questionable, it's negligible, it isn't a factor, and if the tech is negligible, it might as well not be there.
The problem is that each game seems to be intent on giving the player less and less options, which is what made melee such a fun competitive game in the first place.
Brawl had Dash Dashing too if that's all you need to call it that. And yes landing lag IS there in a meaningful way.
Most definitely. I'll probably customize every character to my liking and use them locally whenever possible.
Well I didn't like tripping, so I can still hang out with all the cool kids!
superNESjoe
Member
I suppose as far as Smash 4 being different than Melee I'm going to go ahead and put my thought in.
I'm a huge fan of Melee, I play it more than Brawl because it generally feels better. However, I'm just going to say if any of 4's changes can stop the competitive game from being two foxes zipping around like squirrels in a fight then I say bring them on.
I think Melee is a better game than Brawl, but I do not think it is a template for creating a pure and universal competitive game. Melee has a ton of specific unintended tricks that need to be manipulated if you want to play it, and 90% of the time you're best off playing Fox. I love Melee and I've loved watching its competitive scene grow over the years, but I'm also ready to move on and see some more interesting combos, more interesting experimentation, and more interesting match-ups that don't favor unintended manipulation.
I'm a huge fan of Melee, I play it more than Brawl because it generally feels better. However, I'm just going to say if any of 4's changes can stop the competitive game from being two foxes zipping around like squirrels in a fight then I say bring them on.
I think Melee is a better game than Brawl, but I do not think it is a template for creating a pure and universal competitive game. Melee has a ton of specific unintended tricks that need to be manipulated if you want to play it, and 90% of the time you're best off playing Fox. I love Melee and I've loved watching its competitive scene grow over the years, but I'm also ready to move on and see some more interesting combos, more interesting experimentation, and more interesting match-ups that don't favor unintended manipulation.
No, it really isn't.
So it's like regular dashdancing then.
The game seems intent on giving you options, but a few irrelevant people seem intent on giving themselves a false choice because they don't like any of the tradeoffs.
Hot Coldman
Banned
so basically, nerf space animals
superNESjoe
Member
Because that is exactly what I said.
Also this is why people like you and SuperSah are annoying, when has anyone anywhere said that you can't enjoy "all aspects" of smash.
All I ever talk about is what the game means for competitive smash, when I say it's a bad competitive game, I mean it's a bad competitive game, not that it's a bad game overall.
I try to avoid giving my opinion on casual play or even mentioning it because I know how abrasive you guys are and yet still these posts appear just so you can have something to bitch about, despite the fact that you'll complain about us "complaining for the sake of complaining"
Hot Coldman
Banned
OK cool, just checking. I think we all dream of a Melee without Fox dominance. I think without that, Melee would be taken a lot more competitively seriously too, because that's practically the only bad thing going for it.
It's likely part of why Project M has blown up so quickly.
Nobody but Smash Boards thinks that it's going to be a bad competitive game, and they're not even a competitive community.
Explain why you think that. Going in at all is a risk even with melee landing lag but the way we see it here it's just stupid! Notice how ZSS had fast aerials compared to the rest of the cast? Well she actually had zero landing lag on some because there were no animations for them yet
Maybe you should try understanding what you're trying to talk about before you start trying to argue against things? Because at the moment it just looks like you're arguing for the sake of it.
Turning around on the spot is not dash dancing, you need to be able to go a noticeable distance before turning around for it to be in any way useful.
Bad might be a poor choice of words, it's bad in the sense that there are a few small things stopping it from being the best smash bros. game yet and after god knows how many years of Brawl, finally getting a taste of what could be but just falling short will leave you pretty sour.
Do you think that everyone who thinks it's bad just wants the game to be exactly like melee or something? Is that why you seem so angry that people have dared to criticise smash 4?
peanutbutterlatte
Member
I'll be honest when stuff like "wavedashing" and "landing lag" comes up I tend to get a little sleepy.
superNESjoe
Member
I love Project M. Diverse match-ups are actually possible without giving an overwhelming handicap to the other player. Even at high-level play new experimentation is possible due to less risk of the scales being in favor of the player sticking to a safe and tested strategy.
But I would also like to see less focus on certain things like wavedashing or dash dancing, things that Melee players need to utilize despite them being 100% unintentional. I'm not saying I want people to not use something that is in the game, I'm saying I'd like the game to be built in a way where you simply don't need to or can't. One example is the new way ledge holding is handled. It remains to be seen how that will affect things but I think it's a smart change that will force players into less safe edge games.
Hahahahaha.
Incidentally, your assumption on ZSS's lack of landing lag being based off of the game being incomplete is from what? FCA, FMA or FYA? Going all in is a risk you as a player have the choice to make, you can either do it and succeed, or fail and deal with the problems having any landing lag gives you.
SliceSabre
Banned
BassForever
Member
Bu bu bu making the game a better competitive game first will make it a better party game too
<_<
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