Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 9: F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5

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Guys! We don't have to worry about Mewtwo anymore!

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Wreck-It Ralph said:
It's not about other characters being competitive. It's about the fact that they consistently dominate the game. If they stay good and other characters are brought up to their level, people will still play them. See Project M.

I specifically want the spacies and Marth to not be competitive. I want them to be bottom tier. I want nobody to play them, and if they do, I want them to be obliterated. I want a competitive scene that is devoid of these characters, because their mere presence completely destroys any enthusiasm I have for competitive Smash.

Yes, this is entirely out of spite. My hatred for Marth and the spacies knows no bounds.
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Seriously man? Maybe people like playing these characters? I know I certainly didn't start playing marth back when melee first came out because he was good. Get over it
 
They were already nerfing characters that beat me in SF4, now they're doing it in Smash. Where do I mail my money to Sakurai?
Azure J said:
Horrible post, get reported. Do not pass go. Do not collect $100
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Me and Lucario are already pulling a Lando and buying up Park Place and Boardwalk.

Gold all in my chain...
Wreck-It Ralph said:
It's not about other characters being competitive. It's about the fact that they consistently dominate the game. If they stay good and other characters are brought up to their level, people will still play them. See Project M.

I specifically want the spacies and Marth to not be competitive. I want them to be bottom tier. I want nobody to play them, and if they do, I want them to be obliterated. I want a competitive scene that is devoid of these characters, because their mere presence completely destroys any enthusiasm I have for competitive Smash.

Yes, this is entirely out of spite. My hatred for Marth and the spacies knows no bounds.
Click to expand...

This is that shit I don't like
 
Wreck-It Ralph said:
It's not about other characters being competitive. It's about the fact that they consistently dominate the game. If they stay good and other characters are brought up to their level, people will still play them. See Project M.

I specifically want the spacies and Marth to not be competitive. I want them to be bottom tier. I want nobody to play them, and if they do, I want them to be obliterated. I want a competitive scene that is devoid of these characters, because their mere presence completely destroys any enthusiasm I have for competitive Smash.

Yes, this is entirely out of spite. My hatred for Marth and the spacies knows no bounds.
Click to expand...

This is not an unreasonable perspective at all.
 
Anura said:
Seriously man? Maybe people like playing these characters? I know I certainly didn't start playing marth back when melee first came out because he was good. Get over it
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But you got to keep playing him because he was good. You just happened to choose to like one of the best characters in the game.

Me? My character was DK. He kinda sucked in Melee and was only slightly better in Brawl. I had to choose between changing characters or continuing to get wrecked because my favorite character was low tier. So I chose to just not play the game as much. And when the games became dominated by characters who were boring to watch, like Marth and the spacies, I couldn't even watch them anymore.

I want Marth and Fox fans to have to make that same decision.
 
Wreck-It Ralph said:
It's not about other characters being competitive. It's about the fact that they consistently dominate the game. If they stay good and other characters are brought up to their level, people will still play them. See Project M.

I specifically want the spacies and Marth to not be competitive. I want them to be bottom tier. I want nobody to play them, and if they do, I want them to be obliterated. I want a competitive scene that is devoid of these characters, because their mere presence completely destroys any enthusiasm I have for competitive Smash.

Yes, this is entirely out of spite. My hatred for Marth and the spacies knows no bounds.
Click to expand...

iZG8xUOWbZ3ll.gif
 
Wreck-It Ralph said:
It's not about other characters being competitive. It's about the fact that they consistently dominate the game. If they stay good and other characters are brought up to their level, people will still play them. See Project M.

I specifically want the spacies and Marth to not be competitive. I want them to be bottom tier. I want nobody to play them, and if they do, I want them to be obliterated. I want a competitive scene that is devoid of these characters, because their mere presence completely destroys any enthusiasm I have for competitive Smash.

Yes, this is entirely out of spite. My hatred for Marth and the spacies knows no bounds.
Click to expand...
A simplistic response since I don't have enough experience, but why not just aim to make everyone else equally ranked against characters like Marth instead of horribly nerfing him so a different particular character or two dominates the competitive scene for 4? Just seems malicious to actively wish a character is made worse just to spite people who previously liked them, and in regards to broken characters like Meta in Brawl they just have to give people more options to counter some of their bullshit rather than just making his stats shit.
 
Wreck-It Ralph said:
But you got to keep playing him because he was good. You just happened to choose to like one of the best characters in the game.

Me? My character was DK. He kinda sucked in Melee and was only slightly better in Brawl. I had to choose between changing characters or continuing to get wrecked because my favorite character was low tier. So I chose to just not play the game as much. And when the games became dominated by characters who were boring to watch, like Marth and the spacies, I couldn't even watch them anymore.

I want Marth and Fox fans to have to make that same decision.
Click to expand...

Or you could just hope your character gets buffed. I've been playing T.Hawk in SF4 since he was revealed and he's been ass in every iteration until Ultra just recently. I didn't stop playing him just because other characters *coughTHETWINScough* were getting all the airtime.

Sometimes you gotta gut it out. That's the joy and pain of being a character specialist.
 
Wreck-It Ralph said:
But you got to keep playing him because he was good. You just happened to choose to like one of the best characters in the game.

Me? My character was DK. He kinda sucked in Melee and was only slightly better in Brawl. I had to choose between changing characters or continuing to get wrecked because my favorite character was low tier. So I chose to just not play the game as much. And when the games became dominated by characters who were boring to watch, like Marth and the spacies, I couldn't even watch them anymore.

I want Marth and Fox fans to have to make that same decision.
Click to expand...

You can say a lot about Marth and the spacies but "boring to watch" definitely isn't the first thing that enters my mind. Repetitive to watch after a decade? Perhaps, but I still think they're such fast, stylish characters with so many options, and so many people play them in different ways.
 
Thanks for the kind words, everyone. Glad you liked the impressions :)

TWILT said:
lol great read Anth0ny. That ending.

I don't think Pikachu's QAC is gone though?
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Oh wow, I goofed. I must have been messing up the input with the Pro Controller.

Awesome that it's back!

Wreck-It Ralph said:
It's not about other characters being competitive. It's about the fact that they consistently dominate the game. If they stay good and other characters are brought up to their level, people will still play them. See Project M.

I specifically want the spacies and Marth to not be competitive. I want them to be bottom tier. I want nobody to play them, and if they do, I want them to be obliterated. I want a competitive scene that is devoid of these characters, because their mere presence completely destroys any enthusiasm I have for competitive Smash.

Yes, this is entirely out of spite. My hatred for Marth and the spacies knows no bounds.
Click to expand...

Wreck-It Ralph said:
Oh yeah, also Sheik. Fuck Sheik too.
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I have a gift for you

SSBB_Cover.jpg
 
Wreck-It Ralph said:
But you got to keep playing him because he was good. You just happened to choose to like one of the best characters in the game.

Me? My character was DK. He kinda sucked in Melee and was only slightly better in Brawl. I had to choose between changing characters or continuing to get wrecked because my favorite character was low tier. So I chose to just not play the game as much. And when the games became dominated by characters who were boring to watch, like Marth and the spacies, I couldn't even watch them anymore.

I want Marth and Fox fans to have to make that same decision.
Click to expand...

Along with Amarth in melee I played Samus, jigglypuff and Pickachu and played a bit jigglypuff, pikachu, lucario and fox in brawl because why not? I liked those characters and wanted them to be good. Even though I hated him I wasn't going to be a dick and ask MK to be gutted and made useless. That's just being a jerk to the people who actively enjoy MK as a character
 
Wreck-It Ralph said:
But you got to keep playing him because he was good. You just happened to choose to like one of the best characters in the game.

Me? My character was DK. He kinda sucked in Melee and was only slightly better in Brawl. I had to choose between changing characters or continuing to get wrecked because my favorite character was low tier. So I chose to just not play the game as much. And when the games became dominated by characters who were boring to watch, like Marth and the spacies, I couldn't even watch them anymore.

I want Marth and Fox fans to have to make that same decision.
Click to expand...

Methinks you need to sit down and get a better appreciation for good play instead of good characters. It's kinda hilarious to me that you're so salty that you won't look past the vehicles of a player's intent and instead only see a collection of faces and moves that perform well in one specific niche. What's more, instead of asking for your preferred characters to receive the attention necessary to be more even with the top performing characters as per Melee, you want to see the good things on other characters ruined for the sake of your own misguided "hate" because they're more popular than your characters.

The saddest thing about this entire situation is this isn't even the first time I've seen the "fans" make outlandish comments like this just because something they don't like exists.

FWIW, I started Smash playing Luigi, C. Falcon and Samus in 64, got introduced to Melee where I latched on to Marth but also dabbled in Falco, Luigi, & Ganondorf and then moved to Brawl where I played Marth, Pit, Lucas, Fox (AFTER the nerfs), and a smattering of other characters casually.
 
Thanks for the write-up Anth0ny. It was much appreciated and a good read :)

Wreck-It Ralph said:
It's not about other characters being competitive. It's about the fact that they consistently dominate the game. If they stay good and other characters are brought up to their level, people will still play them. See Project M.

I specifically want the spacies and Marth to not be competitive. I want them to be bottom tier. I want nobody to play them, and if they do, I want them to be obliterated. I want a competitive scene that is devoid of these characters, because their mere presence completely destroys any enthusiasm I have for competitive Smash.

Yes, this is entirely out of spite. My hatred for Marth and the spacies knows no bounds.
Click to expand...

18obbitter-600.jpg
 
Anura said:
In melee I played Samus, jigglypuff and Pickachu and played a bit jigglypuff, pikachu, lucario and fox in brawl because why not? I liked those characters and wanted them to be good. Even though I hated him I wasn't going to be a dick and ask MK to be gutted and made useless. That's just being a jerk to the people who actively enjoy MK as a character
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MK is a special case I think. He could probably be nerfed in a few places and still sit comfortably at the top of the heap. Maybe not alone, but yeah. I say that as a MK fan.

Smash 4 Marth just sounds like a bummer to play. You can't take something so iconic and necessary like his Fair and nerf it like that, especially without giving him something else to compensate. And a Counter buff is hardly that.

blech
 
DICKS AHOY said:
A simplistic response since I don't have enough experience, but why not just aim to make everyone else equally ranked against characters like Marth instead of horribly nerfing him so a different particular character or two dominates the competitive scene for 4? Just seems malicious to actively wish a character is made worse just to spite people who previously liked them, and in regards to broken characters like Meta in Brawl they just have to give people more options to counter some of their bullshit rather than just making his stats shit.
Click to expand...

Oh yes, it is malicious. Absolutely. I'm not pretending otherwise.

I want Smash 4 to be as balanced as possible. I want every character to be a viable option. Except for Marth, the spacies, and Sheik.

SaikyoBro said:
You can say a lot about Marth and the spacies but "boring to watch" definitely isn't the first thing that enters my mind. Repetitive to watch after a decade? Perhaps, but I still think they're such fast, stylish characters with so many options, and so many people play them in different ways.
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100% of his options are "swing sword". That, to me, is an exceedingly dull character to watch.

Anth0ny said:
I have a gift for you

SSBB_Cover.jpg
Click to expand...

A game where Marth and Falco are still high tier?
 
Anth0ny said:
Marth is bad in Smash 4.
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"Marth is bad in Smash 4."
i50zwLAtx1sXT.gif


"Marth is bad."
id5LupuJvqVzu.gif


"Marth...bad."
1408.gif


Marth...

is...

...bad in Smash 4.

ibzGiVP6VmKUBg.gif


Not Marth. Not the Slayer of Medeus and Ruler of Altea. Not the Most Fabulous Man in Smash Bros. Not Nintendo's own Mr. Steal Yo Girl. Not the Hand of the King (of Smash). Say it ain't so, Anth0ny. Tell me a lie.

I don't even know how to process this. I must go ly down.
 
Azure J said:
Methinks you need to sit down and get a better appreciation for good play instead of good characters. It's kinda hilarious to me that you're so salty that you won't look past the vehicles of a player's intent and instead only see a collection of faces and moves that perform well in one specific niche. What's more, instead of asking for your preferred characters to receive the attention necessary to be more even with the top performing characters as per Melee, you want to see the good things on other characters ruined for the sake of your own misguided "hate" because they're more popular than your characters.

The saddest thing about this entire situation is this isn't even the first time I've seen the "fans" make outlandish comments like this just because something they don't like exists.

FWIW, I started Smash playing Luigi, C. Falcon and Samus in 4, got introduced to Melee where I latched on to Marth but also dabbled in Falco, Luigi, & Ganondorf and then moved to Brawl where I played Marth, Pit, Lucas, Fox (AFTER the nerfs), and a smattering of other characters casually.
Click to expand...

I don't want to see these characters in competitive play because I enjoy watching Smash, but I find these particular characters extremely boring to watch. Why is this wrong? Maybe it's selfish of me, but I think it's selfish of you to want to ruin my enjoyment of competitive Smash by keeping these characters good.
 
Wreck-It Ralph said:
Oh yes, it is malicious. Absolutely. I'm not pretending otherwise.

I want Smash 4 to be as balanced as possible. I want every character to be a viable option. Except for Marth, the spacies, and Sheik.



100% of his options are "swing sword". That, to me, is an exceedingly dull character to watch.



A game where Marth and Falco are still high tier?
Click to expand...

That's an absolutely foul and toxic additive you have. Seriously man... That's just being obnoxious. No need to hate characters people enjoy because people like to play them.
 
Thanks for the impressions Anth0ny, you make me optimistic of the game. I thought it felt really off, but hearing you talk about it makes me want to give it another chance.

Wreck-It Ralph said:
I don't want to see these characters in competitive play because I enjoy watching Smash, but I find these particular characters extremely boring to watch. Why is this wrong? Maybe it's selfish of me, but I think it's selfish of you to want to ruin my enjoyment of competitive Smash by keeping these characters good.
Click to expand...

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Azure J said:
I'd sincerely love to see how far you think you'd get with "swing sword" as the be all end all to your Marth play in any situation.
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Every single one of his attacks involves him swinging his sword. Am I wrong?

Oh, I'm sorry, he has a few really boring throws, too. Forgot about those.

I'm not saying he doesn't require skill to play. I'm saying he's boring to watch. His attacks are boring. His movement is boring. His design is boring. Everything about him is boring.
 
Moonlight said:
Geez, I really hate Captain Falcon. All he does is punch things.

And that Samus, ugh. She just shoots stuff. Laaaaaaaame.
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Captain Falcon has a diverse set of different punches mixed in with a diverse set of different kicks.

Samus has a ton of tools besides her gun. Punches and kicks, of course, but also bombs, missiles, screw attack, grapple beam.

Marth? A - Swing sword. Fair - swing sword. Bair - swing sword. B - swing sword.

Again, am I not allowed to have the opinion that Marth is a really boring character?
 
You are allowed to have that opinion. Nobody said you couldn't.

We are allowed to say you have a bad opinion that negatively impacts people passionate about characters you actively want to be bad for a bad reason if you had your way.
 
Wreck-It Ralph said:
Captain Falcon has a diverse set of different punches mixed in with a diverse set of different kicks.

Samus has a ton of tools besides her gun. Punches and kicks, of course, but also bombs, missiles, screw attack, grapple beam.

Marth? A - Swing sword. Fair - swing sword. Bair - swing sword. B - swing sword.

Again, am I not allowed to have the opinion that Marth is a really boring character?
Click to expand...

No you can have that opinion. Others can have the opinion that DK or Samus or CF is boring. But if your argument is "I don't like this thing and it should be made awful because I don't want anyone to play this thing" than it's just plain absurd...
 
Well Wreck-it, I can safely say that we will never agree or budge on this so keep on keepin' on.

On a tangent for the rest of the thread though, the thing that bugs me most about this though, based on Anthony's impressions and footage, it doesn't feel as though they are trying to reduce Marth's effectiveness so that the other cast can shine so much as it feels like they've created a game play style that works and has strengths and weaknesses and thrown haphazard bottlenecks into the idea of the design just to reduce the effectiveness.

So he has great ground movement...

Oh wait, you can't crouch out of a dash so no dtilt poking? No ftilt spacing?

Well I guess that's OK, how about a dash up spaced forward B--

Forward B hit stun is nerfed so you can't get followups from it?

Well I guess I could always mind game with a good dash dance pattern--

Dash reversal windows are so tight it's impossible to use them for anything more than looking like a loon when you do get them?

...fuck. Well let's go back to basics, how about short hop aerials?

Oh wait, there's that nasty landing lag situation. Also fair is one long swing now?

...so about those dash up throw into followups?

Oh wait, throws are more N64 in design. AND they have big cooldown lag after the initial animation.

iRtDS86QfNdSZ.jpg


Admittedly, this is a lot of bellyaching for nothing since I still fully intend to main the character but I'm really not a fan of game design that artificially ruins character combat design "just because".
 
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