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[Baron von Loathsome]

Wait, why is how far in to a game the level is a determinant of how they feel about Retro? What?

They must fucking hate Tokyo EAD, then.

Rumble Falls was a quarter of he way through Jungle Beat.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Look I'm not going to say Sakurai's a monster but the village is the first place you go in Animal Crossing

I don't know why he hates Eguchi so much but I bet it's personal

The village also isn't the only Animal Crossing level we seen, so it's not really the same situation.

And that's ignoring everything else about Animal Crossing in the game lol

 

[Ahnez]

That's not the light suit, it's a white color. By your logic, Samus already had two alts (Dark suit Samus and Fusion Suit Samus)

Those are alts.

I rather have light suit recolor than no light suit reference at all.

Those models require time and money to create, and its not like creating a new model with tens of thousands of triangles for each reference they want to include for each character is a good management.

Its a waste of money.

Unlike trophies, playable models require armatures and special care to avoid clipping.

Its an unnecessary work for a minor fanservice that doesnt change anything on the game.

 

[DaBoss]

The absolute best part is when people refer to PM having alts as if it is a comparable situation.

There is no deadline or budget for it and it will be in development for a much much longer time than SSB4.

It's amazing how big of a deal people make a small model change where that time to make the models can be used else where.

 

[Anura]

I didn't really have a problem with her smashes being bad, Jigglypuff should he encouraged to stay in the air. I hated how they decreased her priority on air moves and made rest terrible though.

Her smashes were actually GOOD in melee though! And being encouraged to stay in the air wouldn't be that big of a problem if it wasn't for the move degradation. As I said before her only moves worth while are aerials, side B and maybe Up tilt... Something that would be perfectly fine if it wasn't again for how badly move degradation kills her. I mean when Fair is both her only reliable kill move and one of the few moves worth doing at all it just becomes near impossible to keep it fresh.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Those are alts.

I rather have light suit recolor than no light suit reference at all.

Those models require time and money to create, and its not like creating a new model with tens of thousands of triangles for each reference they want to include for each character is a good management.

Its a waste of money.

Unlike trophies, playable models require armatures and special care to avoid clipping.

Its an unnecessary work for a minor fanservice that doesnt change anything on the game.

Then what are you complaining about? If that's your definition of alts, basically every character had them in Brawl, and will in the new game as well.

Her smashes were actually GOOD in melee though! And being encouraged to stay in the air wouldn't be that big of a problem if it wasn't for the move degradation. As I said before her only moves worth while are aerials, side B and maybe Up tilt... Something that would be perfectly fine if it wasn't again for how badly move degradation kills her. I mean when Fair is both her only reliable kill move and one of the few moves worth doing at all it just becomes near impossible to keep it fresh.

Oh, that's true. Degradation pretty much killed Jiggly, she might have still been decent if it wasn't so hard for her to land kills.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Rumble Falls was a quarter of he way through Jungle Beat.

But Mario Galaxy's level is the hub, which is the first thing you see. It's literally spitting in their face.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

So, on one hand, it's nice that characters are getting more elaborate recolored costumes. I am a big fan of elaborate recolors that showcase a character's history!

On the other hand, it's REALLY hard to get excited over things like the recolor Light Suit when it could have been an alternate costume proper. PM has professionally-made alternate costumes and they look smooth as heck... but it's looking like, yet again, this game won't have true alternate costumes outside of very special circumstances, and that is all sorts of disappointing.

Now I understand why people were disappointed at Link's sorta-Skyward Sword opening clothes color, haha.

links ss costume was terrible because it was god ugly. Mario golf recolor and light suit recolor look amazing. SS Link didn't.

 

[OmegaSmash]

On the other hand, it's REALLY hard to get excited over things like the recolor Light Suit when it could have been an alternate costume proper. PM has professionally-made alternate costumes and they look smooth as heck... but it's looking like, yet again, this game won't have true alternate costumes outside of very special circumstances, and that is all sorts of disappointing.

That's what I'm talking about. Why only go halfway? I'm happy we at least have interesting recolors, but Project M has shown us what is possible and what quality is achievable.

Project M isn't dealing with a budget, 2 different SKUs for different consoles and a tight deadline.

 

[Timeaisis]

What in god's name is this picture.

 

[Kouichi]

What in god's name is this picture.

It's murica, son.

Land of the free.

 

[Baron von Loathsome]

But Mario Galaxy's level is the hub, which is the first thing you see. It's literally spitting in their face.

Actually, no, it isn't. The hub in the first game is the Observatory, which the stage clearly isn't, and the hub in the second game is the Starship Mario, which is in the freaking background.

Spoiler

But it reminds of Good Egg Galaxy nonetheless.

 

[Beelzebufo]

But Mario Galaxy's level is the hub, which is the first thing you see. It's literally spitting in their face.

No it's not... The hubs are in the background.

Also, Rosalina's a playable character.

Also, is there a Family Golf USA Falco or Captain Falcon? That'd be great.

 

[OmegaSmash]

But Mario Galaxy's level is the hub, which is the first thing you see. It's literally spitting in their face.

I WISH it was the Observatory and not the Gateway Galaxy. At least then we'd have an actual location to fight on, and not just leave the interesting locations in the background.

Spoiler

As you can notice, I'm very disappointed in the Galaxy stage

 

[Riki]

Ah.
Weekend Smash GAF started early it seems.

 

[Toxi]

Prime had a stage, dark suit samus alt colors, music, and trophies.

Not sure how that's "being ignored."

Prime was the second best-selling Metroid game (after the original) and the series' 3D debut.

The Prime stages, soundtracks, and trophies are all from the first fifteen minutes of the game. Compare to Zelda, where Sheik's a playable character and a walking spoiler.

And Prime 2? It got even less than that. There is one Prime 2 track, and it's the multiplayer theme. The Dark Suit is on the cover art. Dark Samus's trophy isn't even accurate to the game.

Then Zero Mission inspired an entire character based on a late-game segment.

 

[SoldnerKei]

Samus doesn't need any help on her slow slide into being Bayonetta. (I don't mind Bayo, but for Bayo, not Samus.)

but is a canonical "Zero Suit" that has been around for 20 years, it's not something that they would come up with for the sake of sexualization, we saw it at every game over we had in super metroid so it kind of makes sense, anyway I really doubt they actually make a custom alt for ZSS

inb4 sakurai includes bunny suit for samus

 

[RomanceDawn]

Ikr? It felt dismissive in brawl, like Retro hadn't earned canon representation. The prime games have been ignored by Sakurai extensively.

Nah man, Brawl had Meta Ridley and frigate orphean. I thought those were great pieces of Prime represented into Smash.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Actually, no, it isn't. The hub in the first game is the Observatory, which the stage clearly isn't, and the hub in the second game is the Starship Mario, which is in the freaking background.

Spoiler

But it reminds of Good Egg Galaxy nonetheless.

EVEN WORSE

 

[Geminosity]

On the topic of mains... Who has a few ideas for their's in 4?
I'm looking at Marth, Greninja, Sheik and if Jiggles is in her. I really want puff to be good again after they murdered her in brawl...

Maybe Rosa but I dunno about her...

Rosalina definitely looks interesting and I'll give her a shot, but from the announced characters Palutena looks very likely to be my main :3
I'll give Rosalina, Wii-fit, Villager, ZSS and Zelda a shot though, especially if Zelda gets a decent Skyward Sword alt XD

If Dixie somehow is in then I'm going to have a difficult choice between her and the green-haired goddess

 

[The Bankslammer]

sakurai hates america

he doesn't even attribute this mario color to old glory

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Hey, we'll finally get to see what the Other M gravity suit would look like if that upgrade wasn't so terrible in that game!

A need for CGI Cutscenes ruining an iconic late game suit style change.

Was the Gravity Suit at E3?

 

[Beelzebufo]

but is a canonical "Zero Suit" that has been around for 20 years, it's not something that they would come up with for the sake of sexualization, we saw it at every game over we had in super metroid so it kind of makes sense, anyway I really doubt they actually make a custom alt for ZSS

inb4 sakurai includes bunny suit for samus

ZSS actually made her first appearance in Zero Mission, before that it was just Samus without her suit on.

sakurai hates america

he doesn't even attribute this mario color to old glory

And he showed it to us a week late, which basically says

"I could have shown this last Friday, but didn't because I hate America"
-Masahiro Sakurai

 

[Ahnez]

About PM alts..

While they are pretty well done, they are still low poly, Wii level models.

Created by a team that dont need to worry about deadlines, budget, about new single player modes, minigames, arranging music, trophies, dont need to worry about 2 versions of the game running on very different CPUs, dont need to create the engine from the ground, etc...

This kind of mod makes things pretty easy for the modders, they can worry about things that are considered less important on a full game development

Then what are you complaining about? If that's your definition of alts, basically every character had them in Brawl, and will in the new game as well.

Never complained about anything.

 

[ec0ec0]

Her smashes were actually GOOD in melee though! And being encouraged to stay in the air wouldn't be that big of a problem if it wasn't for the move degradation. As I said before her only moves worth while are aerials, side B and maybe Up tilt... Something that would be perfectly fine if it wasn't again for how badly move degradation kills her. I mean when Fair is both her only reliable kill move and one of the few moves worth doing at all it just becomes near impossible to keep it fresh.

I am sorry, but, during brawl development, sakurai was busy telling the development team that they needed to work more and more on the huge Subspace Emissary mode. They had more important things to do that to take into consideration all the physics and game mechanic changes from melee to brawl when balancing the game. Also, why should they care about each character actually "working" with the new engine!? why should they care about characters "working" in "brawl mode" (normal smash bros 4 player mode)!? why should they care about "4 player mode" at all!? its not like thats what smash bros is/was about... sakurai...

(this was intended to be a sarcastic comment. F*ck sakurai priorities during smash bros brawl development )

I love jigglypuff too :3 (i cant remember using her in brawl at all. I used her all the time in melee)

REST in peace puff.

 

[NeonZ]

Can't think of a single Prime thing from Brawl that was more than fifteen minutes into those games.

The Gravity Suit color had the Prime visor color change, rather than keeping the green visor like in Super Metroid.

I mean just compare her to kirby, a character who still sucks. Kirby has better recovery, better smashes, decent air game and is heavier. Jiggles has 0 reason to even use her smashes! They're horrendously weak and some of the most unsafe and slowest around. Heck her only moves worth using are Bair, Fair and side B! Of course this also causes them to degrade super fast and make even those moves almost useless. They even made rest weaker AND harder to hit with... Brawls "balance" still leaves me flabbergasted

As far as Jigglypuff goes at least, although Sakurai never officially confirmed it, I always assumed that he just returned to its original concept as a "handicap" character. In the Pichu update in the melee site, it was said that Pichu's role as a handicap character was previously Jigglypuff's. Considering how there was no Pichu in Brawl, Jigglypuff might have gotten stuck with that "role" again, and this time it was actually weakened.

 

[Toxi]

Nah man, Brawl had Meta Ridley and frigate orphean. I thought those were great pieces of Prime represented into Smash.

Meta Ridley didn't actually fight like Meta-Ridley (well, Prime Meta-Ridley) and it's clear he was just based on the Meta-Ridley appearance in the tutorial. The Frigate is awesome, but it's one of the last options most Prime fans would choose as a stage, and the flipping gimmick... Why? If it's based on the crashed frigate, why no water?

I'm more miffed by the complete dismissal of Prime 2 than anything else though. One awful soundtrack choice, one alt color on the game's cover, and a trophy description that doesn't even match the game.

And that's why I'm so happy to actually see a reference to late-game power-up and an accurate Dark Samus assist trophy. It shows an attention to detail that has frankly been missing from Metroid Prime content so far. Hell, the Other M references show an attention to detail that has been missing from Metroid so far; King Ki-Hunter trophy and an accurate Pyrosphere Ridley room? Color me impressed from the same dev that gave us Kraid in a lava pit.

The Gravity Suit color had the Prime visor color change, rather than keeping the green visor like in Super Metroid.

That's a good point.

 

[SoldnerKei]

ZSS actually made her first appearance in Zero Mission, before that it was just Samus without her suit on.

and even in that game it's Samus without her suit on, but ZSS samus is based on that design, well, at least according to this:

I was going through Sakurai's Twitter timeline and read an interesting bit of trivia from a few years ago: apparently the term "Zero Suit" was invented for Brawl by a Nintendo of America employee. Sakurai wasn't sure what to call the bodysuit version of Samus, and someone from NoA suggested "Zero Suit Samus." The Zero Suit name was then made canonical in later Metroid games.

that's why I said "Zero Suit" since is the term used now when samus takes off her

Spoiler

cloths

suit

 

[Toxi]

and even in that game it's Samus without her suit on, but ZSS samus is based on that design, well, at least according to this:

that's why I said "Zero Suit" since is the term used now when samus takes off her

Spoiler

cloths

suit

ZSS is based closely on Zero Mission, albeit with some changes to make her a decent fighter. The stun pistol, crawling pose, and Brawl firing animation are directly based on the game.

I was actually miffed they changed the firing animation in Smash 4. :-/

Speaking of obscure Metroid references, the ZSS final smash from Brawl looks like the Crystal Flash.

 

[Save 'N Quit]

Those USA chants will be so loud whenever someone picks that version.

A new game mode has been announced as well!

 

[IntelliHeath]

PM also doesn't have any hard deadlines to worry about like legit smash does.

Precise.

Ah.
Weekend Smash GAF started early it seems.

Wait and see what we would get tomorrow.

 

[georly]

The Light Suit color is just following the trend of stuff like the Fusion and Dark Suit recolors. A full model swap from the Varia Suit from that shitty game would be nice, but I'm just happy the Prime trilogy is getting any decent recognition after Brawl's LOLworthy "here's the stuff from Prime's tutorial and the suit seen on Prime 2's Japanese cover". Can't think of a single Prime thing from Brawl that was more than fifteen minutes into those games.

Stages from smash bros that are from the first 15 minutes of the game:

1. Corneria
2. Green greens
3. Mute City
4. Onett
5. Princess Peach's Castle
6. Delfino Plaza
7. Frigate Orpheon
8. Green Hill Zone
9. Luigi's Mansion
10. Mushroomy Kingdom
11. Mario Circuit
12. Mario Bros.
13. Shadow Moses Island
14. Skyloft
15. Pilotwings (wuhu island)
16. Pac-Land
17. Mario Galaxy
18. Windy Hill
19. Wii Fit Studio
20. Balloon Fight
21. Pac-maze
22. 3d-Land
23. golden plains
24. living room
25. jungle japes
26. brinstar
27. flat zone
28. flat zone 2
29. pokemon stadium 1
30. pokemon stadium 2
31. hanenbow (i think?)
32. pictochat
33. Tomodachi House
34. Smashville
35. Town and city

Stages from smash bros that are further than 15 minutes in the game:

1. Mushroom kingdom U (includes first level AND later levels, so it's here)
2. Halberd
3. Punch Out!! (World circuit)
4. Coliseum
5. Palutena's temple
6. Wily's Castle
7. Pyrosphere
8. Garden of hope (if you take your sweeeeet time on day 1)
9. Kalos pokemon league
10. Tortimer Island
11. Find Mii
12. Arena Ferox
13. Reset bomb forest
14. rainbow road
15. prism tower
16. Gerudo Valley
17. Spirit train
18. Hyrule Castle
19. Sector Z
20. Saffron City
21. Big Blue
22. fountain of dreams
23. fourside
24. great bay
25. rainbow cruise
26. temple (less than 15 if you know where you're going, but not average)
27. venom
28. 75m (not the 'first stage')
29. bridge of eldin
30. new pork city
31. norfair
32. port town aero dive
33. spear pillar
34. brinstar depths

Stages from smash bros that are only INSPIRED by a place in the game (that aren't an actual place within the game):

1. Congo jungle
2. Mushroom Kingdom
3. Yoshi's Island (64 version)
4. Yoshi's Island (melee version)
5. Yoshi's Island (brawl version)
6. Icicle mountains
7. Kingdom 1
8. Kingdom 2
9. Kongo Jungle
10. Pokefloats
11. Yoshi's Story
12. Castle Siege
13. Distant Planet
14. Pirate Ship
15. Skyworld
16. Summit
17. Planet Zebes
18. warioware inc

 

[Kyzon]

On the topic of mains... Who has a few ideas for their's in 4?
I'm looking at Marth, Greninja, Sheik and if Jiggles is in her. I really want puff to be good again after they murdered her in brawl...

Maybe Rosa but I dunno about her...

Sheik, Mac, Zelda (omg gotta lose), and I'm sure Ganondorf when he's announced :3

Edit: and ZSS because why not have current beast mode in my pocket.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Brinstar Depths isn't from the first 15 minutes. I'd also move the 3D Land stage to the "inspired by" category if that's where Yoshi's Story is.

 

[Aβydoς]

Oh I missed that the Mario alt is actually from that Golf game, my bad, I fell for it. Not the greatest choice but at least it's sorta relevant.
The Light Suit still pisses me off though.

 

[Toxi]

Stages from smash bros that are from the first 15 minutes of the game:

1. Corneria
2. Green greens
3. Mute City
4. Onett
5. Princess Peach's Castle
6. Delfino Plaza
7. Frigate Orpheon
8. Green Hill Zone
9. Luigi's Mansion
10. Mushroomy Kingdom
11. Mario Circuit
12. Mario Bros.
13. Shadow Moses Island
14. Skyloft
15. Pilotwings (wuhu island)
16. Pac-Land
17. Mario Galaxy
18. Windy Hill
19. Wii Fit Studio
20. Balloon Fight
21. Pac-maze
22. 3d-Land
23. golden plains
24. living room
25. jungle japes
26. brinstar / depths
27. flat zone
28. flat zone 2
29. pokemon stadium 1
30. pokemon stadium 2
31. hanenbow (i think?)
32. warioware inc
33. pictochat
34. Tomodachi House
35. Smashville
36. Town and city

Stages from smash bros that are further than 15 minutes in the game:

1. Mushroom kingdom U (includes first level AND later levels, so it's here)
2. Halberd
3. Punch Out!! (World circuit)
4. Coliseum
5. Palutena's temple
6. Wily's Castle
7. Pyrosphere
8. Garden of hope (if you take your sweeeeet time on day 1)
9. Kalos pokemon league
10. Tortimer Island
11. Find Mii
12. Arena Ferox
13. Reset bomb forest
14. rainbow road
15. prism tower
16. Gerudo Valley
17. Spirit train
18. Hyrule Castle
19. Sector Z
20. Saffron City
21. Big Blue
22. fountain of dreams
23. fourside
24. great bay
25. rainbow cruise
26. temple (less than 15 if you know where you're going, but not average)
27. venom
28. 75m (not the 'first stage')
29. bridge of eldin
30. new pork city
31. norfair
32. port town aero dive
33. spear pillar

Stages from smash bros that are only INSPIRED by a place in the game (that aren't an actual place within the game):

1. Congo jungle
2. Mushroom Kingdom
3. Yoshi's Island
4. Icicle mountains
5. Kingdom 1
6. Kingdom 2
7. Kongo Jungle
8. Pokefloats
9. Yoshi's Story
10. Castle Siege
11. Distant Planet
12. Pirate Ship
13. Skyworld
14. Summit
15. Yoshi's Island

Planet Zebes (renamed to Brinstar with some slight changes in Melee) and Brinstar Depths (which looks nothing like the depths of Brinstar) should be in the inspired section.

 

[georly]

Planet Zebes (renamed to Brinstar with some slight changes in Melee) and Brinstar Depths (which looks nothing like the depths of Brinstar) should be in the inspired section.

Even though they dont LOOK like they're from brinstar, the name of the stage is brinstar which is an actual place. Otherwise 90% of stages would be under 'inspired by' since they're not perfect replicas of their in-game appearance.

Zebes and brinstar are still two different stages.

That said, yes i forgot to add zebes in 'inspired'

 

[Aβydoς]

Never mind, read wrong

 

[Beelzebufo]

Even though they dont LOOK like they're from brinstar, the name of the stage is brinstar which is an actual place. Otherwise 90% of stages would be under 'inspired by' since they're not perfect replicas of their in-game appearance.

That said, yes i forgot to add zebes in 'inspired'

Depths is still way later than the first 15 minutes though.

Unless you're a crazy speedrunner? I don't know.

 

[georly]

Depths is still way later than the first 15 minutes though.

Yeah, i guess i can move it, since it implies the kraid boss fight.

 

[Toxi]

Even though they dont LOOK like they're from brinstar, the name of the stage is brinstar which is an actual place. Otherwise 90% of stages would be under 'inspired by' since they're not perfect replicas of their in-game appearance.

That said, yes i forgot to add zebes in 'inspired'

Brinstar Depths looks nothing like Brinstar beyond Kraid appearing. It's like calling a horse a cow and then saying "but I called it a cow so it counts!"

Brinstar looks like Brinstar, so that's fine.

Also, Brawl Samus looks like Zero Mission Samus, because screw matching the most recent game (Prime 2) unless it's made by Sakamoto.

Depths is still way later than the first 15 minutes though.

Unless you're a crazy speedrunner? I don't know.

It's not that late in the game in Super if you're fast. I count the music change as the moment you reach the Depths.

 

[georly]

Brinstar Depths looks nothing like Brinstar beyond Kraid appearing. It's like calling a horse a cow and then saying "but I called it a cow so it counts!"

Brinstar looks like Brinstar, so that's fine.

Also, Brawl Samus looks like Zero Mission Samus, because screw matching the most recent game (Prime 2) unless it's made by Sakamoto.

I didn't call it a cow, sakurai did. It's debatable to go under 'inspired by' for sure. I'm going to leave it under 'first 15' though since the first thing you do in metroid/super metroid is touch down in brinstar and get the morph ball.

 

[Kriken]

Wait and see what we would get tomorrow.

Falco

Spoiler

Trophy

 

[Jaeger]

If we talkin' bout potential mains;

ZSS
Wii Fit Trainer
Marth

First I'm trying out.

 

[Beelzebufo]

And is the 3D Land stage based on a specific level in 3D Land?

 

[Not]

Still just recolors. No actual modeling be done here. Laaaaame sauce. Laaaaaame Sak.

 

[BassForever]

Forgot to post these.

Needs a mario saluting version

 

[georly]

And is the 3D Land stage based on a specific level in 3D Land?

Good point. It resembled the first stage, but I should move it to inspired by.

 

[BGBW]

Those USA chants will be so loud whenever someone picks that version.

Pretty sure my household will still be quiet even if I pick Golf Mario.

 

[Toxi]

Every character is going to have an alternate costume IIRC, so Samus will probably get something else. I'm guessing the classic Super Metroid look.

I didn't call it a cow, sakurai did. It's debatable to go under 'inspired by' for sure. I'm going to leave it under 'first 15' though since the first thing you do in metroid/super metroid is touch down in brinstar and get the morph ball.

That's not the Depths section. Brinstar Depths is the part in Metroid with Kraid's music and the part in Super Metroid with red soil, IMO.