Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread XI: Where 90% correct equals 100% wrong
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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If they nerf him and fix his hitboxes, sure. If not, he can just stay home this time.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
I would imagine that it would be same for Snake Users. Of course, I would be hyped as well.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Probably not, Nintendo owns The Wonderful 101.
Second'd.Don't beat yourself up after every post. We're mostly friendly and won't completely judge you
No one's worried about it dude. I've make some really egregious typos here from time to time, and they almost never even get pointed out. We're just here to discuss and
over
MaverickHunterAsh
Member
God, I really just want this "playable Rayman" stuff to be squashed for good one way or another. That Nintendo Canada employee really didn't seem to know what he was talking about in the least, but... that's kind of a hard mistake to make. I'm a little worried.
I know I've said I'm not in the business of actively hoping any characters don't get in because I don't like fans of any character being disappointed, and I still stand by that, but it would be really hard for me not to be kind of upset at Rayman being playable. In the end I guess I'd be begrudgingly happy for Rayman fans, but he just so doesn't have the icon status or history with Nintendo for him to make sense as a third-party guest in Smash.
Snake at least is a pretty iconic character, though I would argue he wasn't really the best choice for Smash either because he's not really relevant to Nintendo anymore. But Rayman is neither iconic (he's a C-list celebrity at best; even Origins and Legends are beloved far less for Rayman himself and more for their excellent gameplay and visuals) nor is he known for his history with Nintendo. The lineup of third-party guests we have at this point is literally perfect and covers all the bases: Sonic (gaming icon + '90s rivalry with Mario), Mega Man (classic gaming icon + overwhelmingly Nintendo-centric history that people associate with him), and Pac-Man (the original classic gaming icon). Literally no other third-party guests have the iconic status and/or relevance to Nintendo these three do.
Having Rayman playable just feels like it'd really "cheapen" the roster to me. Not to mention Ubisoft delayed the Wii U version of Rayman Legends so they could release it alongside the other versions, is literally doing nothing for Nintendo right now, and has even come right out and said "Lolno we're not publishing any more Wii U games until the system's sales pick up." How does that deserve a playable character in Smash?
Sorry, Rayman fans. If in the end he is playable, I'll put this all aside and be happy for ya'll, but I just can't personally get behind him being in the roster. Thankfully for you, though, Sakurai doesn't give a hoot what I think.
I know I've said I'm not in the business of actively hoping any characters don't get in because I don't like fans of any character being disappointed, and I still stand by that, but it would be really hard for me not to be kind of upset at Rayman being playable. In the end I guess I'd be begrudgingly happy for Rayman fans, but he just so doesn't have the icon status or history with Nintendo for him to make sense as a third-party guest in Smash.
Snake at least is a pretty iconic character, though I would argue he wasn't really the best choice for Smash either because he's not really relevant to Nintendo anymore. But Rayman is neither iconic (he's a C-list celebrity at best; even Origins and Legends are beloved far less for Rayman himself and more for their excellent gameplay and visuals) nor is he known for his history with Nintendo. The lineup of third-party guests we have at this point is literally perfect and covers all the bases: Sonic (gaming icon + '90s rivalry with Mario), Mega Man (classic gaming icon + overwhelmingly Nintendo-centric history that people associate with him), and Pac-Man (the original classic gaming icon). Literally no other third-party guests have the iconic status and/or relevance to Nintendo these three do.
Having Rayman playable just feels like it'd really "cheapen" the roster to me. Not to mention Ubisoft delayed the Wii U version of Rayman Legends so they could release it alongside the other versions, is literally doing nothing for Nintendo right now, and has even come right out and said "Lolno we're not publishing any more Wii U games until the system's sales pick up." How does that deserve a playable character in Smash?
Sorry, Rayman fans. If in the end he is playable, I'll put this all aside and be happy for ya'll, but I just can't personally get behind him being in the roster. Thankfully for you, though, Sakurai doesn't give a hoot what I think.
Finale Fireworker
Member
Don't beat yourself up after every post. We're mostly friendly and won't completely judge you
Self-deprecation is a way of life!
Edit: I'm used to Twitter where extreme inwardly-directed criticism is commonplace for comedic effect. I am damaged goods; I am only just newly adjusting to kindness.
Nintendo also owns Kirby, Mother, and Fire Emblem.
Which is why he's just a trophy. I wouldn't worry.
I'm expecting 2-3 more.
The question is if they will all be revealed before release.
Either way it will only be for Japanese players' benefit because everyone else will have to wait a month.
MaverickHunterAsh
Member
I wasn't worrying until that video came out!
But yeah, my gut tells me he's just a trophy... but I can't completely eliminate the possibility in my mind either.Oh well, we'll know either way in five weeks or so!
God, I really just want this "playable Rayman" stuff to be squashed for good one way or another. That Nintendo Canada employee really didn't seem to know what he was talking about in the least, but... that's kind of a hard mistake to make. I'm a little worried.
I know I've said I'm not in the business of actively hoping any characters don't get in because I don't like fans of any character being disappointed, and I still stand by that, but it would be really hard for me not to be kind of upset at Rayman being playable. In the end I guess I'd be begrudgingly happy for Rayman fans, but he just so doesn't have the icon status or history with Nintendo for him to make sense as a third-party guest in Smash.
Snake at least is a pretty iconic character, though I would argue he wasn't really the best choice for Smash either because he's not really relevant to Nintendo anymore. But Rayman is neither iconic (he's a C-list celebrity at best; even Origins and Legends are beloved far less for Rayman himself and more for their excellent gameplay and visuals) nor is he known for his history with Nintendo. The lineup of third-party guests we have at this point is literally perfect and covers all the bases: Sonic (gaming icon + '90s rivalry with Mario), Mega Man (classic gaming icon + overwhelmingly Nintendo-centric history that people associate with him), and Pac-Man (the original classic gaming icon). Literally no other third-party guests have the iconic status and/or relevance to Nintendo these three do.
Having Rayman playable just feels like it'd really "cheapen" the roster to me. Not to mention Ubisoft delayed the Wii U version of Rayman Legends so they could release it alongside the other versions, is literally doing nothing for Nintendo right now, and has even come right out and said "Lolno we're not publishing any more Wii U games until the system's sales pick up." How does that deserve a playable character in Smash?
Sorry, Rayman fans. If in the end he is playable, I'll put this all aside and be happy for ya'll, but I just can't personally get behind him being in the roster. Thankfully for you, though, Sakurai doesn't give a hoot what I think.
He'll have about as much Nintendo cred as Snake would, I would think.
In any case I don't think Rayman is coming. He would have received a proper reveal, and there would have been a lot more leaks out there (even all of the BS ones we're getting nowadays) saying he's coming He's just, for some bizarre reason, only going to be a trophy. There are probably political reasons as to why this has happened, something Nintendo trying to court Ubisoft for the Wii U or something about Rayman Legends' originally planned Nintendo exclusivity being cut.
Personally I don't want him in either. Four third party characters is pushing it. I don't want this game to be Nintendo All-Stars plus awesome characters who appeared on Nintendo hardware. To make a loose comparison, I think all of the outside characters on Smash Flash are dumb.
I expect two more newcomers at most, and maybe a surprise unlockable newcomer. I don't have any history with Chorus Kid or Shulk, as I haven't found a copy of Xenoblade, but I'm already happy with the roster as long as many of the veterans are assumed to be back.
I hope they reveal everything before the Japanese release, or even do another Direct. The spoilers on the Brawl site were pointless as news of the final roster was everywhere within a day. I've never heard of anyone that didn't want to know every character that's in the game. Maybe because they'd have to unplug their internet to stay in the dark about it.
Fair enough
just wanted to make sure you felt welcome. Also, editing past posts is heaven on earth. Spinosaurus
Member
Expecting two as well. Of course, I'd be happy with more, but I'm already satisfied with the roster as is.
If the last two are Shulk and a Rhythm Heaven rep, then that's a very great set of newcomers.
If the last two are Shulk and a Rhythm Heaven rep, then that's a very great set of newcomers.
I wasn't worrying until that video came out!
Oh well, we'll know either way in five weeks or so!
I doubt Sakurai would nonchalantly reveal that trophy if Rayman was a newcomer. Another third-party rep is something you would make a big deal about.
Surprise newcomers would be so hype, I just hope there are at least 2 of them, and maybe they could use their trailers/movies for when you are about to fight them and unlock them.
The Great Gonzales
Member
Even without Shulk and Chorus Kids, Smash 4 already has the best bunch of newcomers of the series, I think. Between my main, Luigi, and Villager, Robin, and Rosalina, there's never been so many characters I've been itching to get my hands on. And if Paper Mario is on the roster, too...well, best not to get my hopes up.
The Falcon Hug killed me.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
So if the Chorus Men and Shulk are the only newcomers left to be announced, the only TRUE BOMBAS Smash has left are between Ridley and Mewtwo.
Mewtwo better make it into this damn game.. That's all I'm saying.
Mewtwo better make it into this damn game.. That's all I'm saying.
Brawl had Lucario, ROB, and Wolf, so it could happen. Toon Link as well, but he's just a redesigned Young Link.
Snake too, but I don't think that's happening. Would be great though. Don't like seeing the series lose characters.
GreenLiquid
Neo Member
The size of Brawl's roster was, what, about an increase of 40% over the size of Melee's? If the same proportion of increase occurs again we're looking at about 50. But this time around, development hours aren't going towards adventure mode, so I guess it's still anyone's guess.
Does anyone have enough of the leaks we've seen so far handy to give us a list of all of the leaked roster sizes? I'd be curious what the average leaked size is.
Does anyone have enough of the leaks we've seen so far handy to give us a list of all of the leaked roster sizes? I'd be curious what the average leaked size is.
BassForever
Member
Yeah at this point 48 is the minimum slots I expect to see (36 currently revealed, +10 brawl vets minus lucas/snake/ivy/squirt, +2 newcomers shulk/rh rep).
Actually 51 wouldn't be to crazy as it would probably be 49 spots and a random space in a 10x5 fashion, with the 3 different kinds of mii fighters tied together in one space. Could be mewtwo or another surprise newcomer for that final spot.
Actually 51 wouldn't be to crazy as it would probably be 49 spots and a random space in a 10x5 fashion, with the 3 different kinds of mii fighters tied together in one space. Could be mewtwo or another surprise newcomer for that final spot.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
For the record, we have 38 characters, not 36 characters.
Monkey Blue
Neo Member
The "Gematsu leak" is fake so why does everyone expect Shulk and Chorus Men?
BassForever
Member
For the record, we have 38 characters, not 36 characters.
Yes, but I don't think all 3 will have a unique spot on the character select screen, I imagine it'll just be a mii fighters spot and when you pick it you select a mii you have made that is registered in smash 4
Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread XI: Where 90% correct equals 100% wrong
Baron von Loathsome
Member
It's partially inaccurate, not confirmed fake. There's a difference.
I don't expect Chorus Men specifically, but I do expect a Rhythm Heaven rep because of the leak and the Smash Run enemy.
BassForever
Member
90% correct = 100% wrong
Gematsu leak had genuine info from some point in development, clearly some of his info was either outdated or misinformed (chrom instead of robin/lucina, maybe marshall instead of chorus men) but to completely deny him when he has gotten more right then wrong is silly.
It was still shrink-wrapped and wal-mart takes returns without receipts for store credit. Sin and punishment 2 made me a net gain of 10 bucks (i bought one extra to keep). They basically PAID me to play it.
God, I really just want this "playable Rayman" stuff to be squashed for good one way or another. That Nintendo Canada employee really didn't seem to know what he was talking about in the least, but... that's kind of a hard mistake to make. I'm a little worried.
I know I've said I'm not in the business of actively hoping any characters don't get in because I don't like fans of any character being disappointed, and I still stand by that, but it would be really hard for me not to be kind of upset at Rayman being playable. In the end I guess I'd be begrudgingly happy for Rayman fans, but he just so doesn't have the icon status or history with Nintendo for him to make sense as a third-party guest in Smash.
Snake at least is a pretty iconic character, though I would argue he wasn't really the best choice for Smash either because he's not really relevant to Nintendo anymore. But Rayman is neither iconic (he's a C-list celebrity at best; even Origins and Legends are beloved far less for Rayman himself and more for their excellent gameplay and visuals) nor is he known for his history with Nintendo. The lineup of third-party guests we have at this point is literally perfect and covers all the bases: Sonic (gaming icon + '90s rivalry with Mario), Mega Man (classic gaming icon + overwhelmingly Nintendo-centric history that people associate with him), and Pac-Man (the original classic gaming icon). Literally no other third-party guests have the iconic status and/or relevance to Nintendo these three do.
Having Rayman playable just feels like it'd really "cheapen" the roster to me. Not to mention Ubisoft delayed the Wii U version of Rayman Legends so they could release it alongside the other versions, is literally doing nothing for Nintendo right now, and has even come right out and said "Lolno we're not publishing any more Wii U games until the system's sales pick up." How does that deserve a playable character in Smash?
Sorry, Rayman fans. If in the end he is playable, I'll put this all aside and be happy for ya'll, but I just can't personally get behind him being in the roster. Thankfully for you, though, Sakurai doesn't give a hoot what I think.
Besides snake being an icon, kojima worked directly w/ nintendo for twin snakes AND is apparently friends (acquaintances?) w/ sakurai. None of those connections can be said for Rayman. Rayman is so so so so far down on the list of people deserving a spot. Below any Capcom/Sega/Konami/Namco/Square/Tecmo I.P. ANY IP from those companies is more deserving than rayman.
Would be too amazing.
nintendoman58
Member
I expect Shulk because Sakurai apparently loves Monolith Soft and he makes perfect sense to be a Xenoblade rep since Xenoblade Chronicles X is coming out next year and Nintendo's promoting and publishing it .
I still believe that he's a playable newcomer. I STILL BELIEVE.
I couldn't really care less about Chorus Men though. (No offense to the fans who want him in).
MaverickHunterAsh
Member
So here's a question: if you had to cut four characters from the original 12 and they could never be in another Smash game again, who would you choose? Any reasoning is fine, but state your reasoning. For me, it's a really tough choice because they're all so iconic to Smash and to Nintendo (mostly), but I'd have to go with:
Jigglypuff - The second of two Pokémon reps in the original 12 and by far the less iconic/relevant one, as much as I personally like it.
Captain Falcon - Not exactly "icon status" as far as Nintendo overall is concerned and F-Zero is hardly known for its characters. He's iconic to Smash now, of course, but back then he was a really out-of-left-field inclusion like Ness, but EarthBound is personally more important to me than F-Zero.
Luigi - Purely for reasons of diversity. He's of course not a Mario clone, but he's similar enough that cutting him feels like it would be less detrimental to the overall roster than cutting most anyone else.
Yoshi - Feels less essential to the overall diversity of the roster as a (somewhat) second Mario rep, especially one with a compromised moveset (no recovery!).
All of the above is just for fun and in the context of having to cut four of the original 12. I don't actually feel this way about any of those characters!
It's gotten literally everything right so far except for Chrom. Clearly it's confirmed 100% fake and Wii Fit Trainer, Villager, Mega Man, Palutena, Mii Fighters, Pac-Man, Little Mac, and X/Y Pokémon (Greninja) were just lucky guesses. Yep, totally fake. 9_9 You're exactly who this thread's title is referring to!
Anyway, at this point the Chorus Kids are practically expected to be a lock, and I'd be deeply disappointed if they (or any Rhythm Heaven rep) ended up not making it in. I don't really care about Shulk compared to a RH rep, but hey, Shulk's cool and I'm happy to have both!
Jigglypuff - The second of two Pokémon reps in the original 12 and by far the less iconic/relevant one, as much as I personally like it.
Captain Falcon - Not exactly "icon status" as far as Nintendo overall is concerned and F-Zero is hardly known for its characters. He's iconic to Smash now, of course, but back then he was a really out-of-left-field inclusion like Ness, but EarthBound is personally more important to me than F-Zero.
Luigi - Purely for reasons of diversity. He's of course not a Mario clone, but he's similar enough that cutting him feels like it would be less detrimental to the overall roster than cutting most anyone else.
Yoshi - Feels less essential to the overall diversity of the roster as a (somewhat) second Mario rep, especially one with a compromised moveset (no recovery!).
All of the above is just for fun and in the context of having to cut four of the original 12. I don't actually feel this way about any of those characters!
It's gotten literally everything right so far except for Chrom. Clearly it's confirmed 100% fake and Wii Fit Trainer, Villager, Mega Man, Palutena, Mii Fighters, Pac-Man, Little Mac, and X/Y Pokémon (Greninja) were just lucky guesses. Yep, totally fake. 9_9 You're exactly who this thread's title is referring to!
Anyway, at this point the Chorus Kids are practically expected to be a lock, and I'd be deeply disappointed if they (or any Rhythm Heaven rep) ended up not making it in. I don't really care about Shulk compared to a RH rep, but hey, Shulk's cool and I'm happy to have both!
GreenLiquid
Neo Member
I guess I'm in the minority, but I pretty much completely discredited the leak when the Fire Emblem newcomers were revealed. My reasons basically are:
But I'll admit that I'd rather the leak be false than true so I can't deny being tainted by confirmation bias -- even so, I think it's much more likely to be faked than legitimate.
- Looking back at the Brawl leaks that turned out correct, all of them listed a fair number of details and got nothing wrong, major or minor. That makes me heavily discredit a leak that gets a major detail wrong.
- The leaker's reveal that Shulk was going to be shown came at a time when most people thought (via the retweet) that it was going to happen anyway. To me, it seemed like a quick attempt to build more credibility that backfired spectacularly.
- The only one of the messages from that leak that got anything right that I'd consider particularly impressive was the first one... and it wasn't even worded as a leak! I think the narrative that he basically got lucky with the first predictions and went with it is more compelling than the suggestion that his source is no longer in the know... especially in light of the fact that the mistaken Shulk prediction happened a mere weekend before he backpedalled and said that his source might have outdated info. Why make that prediction so late in the game if you had the info, fake or not, earlier?
But I'll admit that I'd rather the leak be false than true so I can't deny being tainted by confirmation bias -- even so, I think it's much more likely to be faked than legitimate.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Since you can't really select Mii button during Online mode with strangers, so I can't help but wonder if we are getting Mii Fighter slot in CSS or not.
Ryce might have a right idea about it. Also I have seen other people's work where he put Mii Fighter in top banner.
Speedwagon
Michelangelo painted the Sistine Chapel. Yabuki turned off voice chat in Mario Kart races. True artists of their time.
How could you. Captain Falcon is the heart of Smash.
GreenLiquid
Neo Member
I'd drop Jigglypuff for basically the reason you gave; Ness because I never really played as him in Brawl, picking Lucas instead; Captain Falcon because (unless there's a moveset redesign) he's very similar to Ganondorf and is from a series that's dormant at this point, and I guess Luigi even though I really like him just because Mario is quite similar and I wouldn't think of cutting anyone else.
It really is silly. I think it's basically a case of a similar situation to pre-Brawl where R.O.B was getting leaked beforehand and people not wanting to believe those leaks simply because R.O.B was on it. Except for this leak, it's two reasons why people don't want to believe it:
1. Two newcomers left on the list (making people assume that's all the newcomers left -- people want more newcomers)
2. Chorus Men/Marshall (whichever one it is) is a character those people don't want.
You can still be skeptical about it all you want but calling it 'fake' based on your preferences for characters when the list had been correct up to Robin/Lucina is asinine.
I'd even consider it rare that leaks of any kind don't have some holes in them or make mistakes. Remember ntkrnl with all those Microsoft leaks? He had posted some inaccuracies (we didn't know they were inaccurate until later, obviously) and not everybody started posting 'Fake! He got [insert thing wrong here]!' way after some of the other things he said that came true (to my recollection, anyway).
It's a really naive mentality to have.
That's like asking a mom to pick a favorite child. I just can't. Not a one.
I hate when cuts happen. D:
But if I had to choose:
Jigglypuff - This is definitely the easy choice for me. I enjoy playing as her (though I hate playing against her), but as a character Jigglypuff doesn't have any place in Smash. The moveset is fun, but Jiggly is just some random Pokemon of no real significance.
Yoshi - In this case, it's purely because I hate the way Yoshi plays (and hate it in any and every SSB). It would be strange for him to be gone though.
After that it gets really difficult...
I guess Luigi since he's very similar to Mario. If he's gone forever though... no, I can't live in that world. (lol)
Lastly Pikachu. Though he's the face of the series, there are better Pokemon. Charizard, Mewtwo, Greninja, and Squirtle are all better. (I don't care if I'm contradicting my 'random pokemon' complaint from above. Just do not care.)
MaverickHunterAsh
Member
Did you even read what I said about him all the way through? I literally said "He's iconic to Smash now, of course..."
balladofwindfishes
Member
Since you can't really select Mii button during Online mode with strangers, so I can't help but wonder if we are getting Mii Fighter slot in CSS or not.
Ryce might have a right idea about it. Also I have seen other people's work where he put Mii Fighter in top banner.
Didn't someone at Treehouse stream say they had a slot on the CSS?
Starphoenix
Member
I can do better then that: the Pokémon X/Y leaks. There was a lot of wrong information mixed with legitimate.
MrSaturn99
Member
balladofwindfishes
Member
He used their internal development name. Pokemon from X/Y was literally what Greninja was called on the roster. I wouldn't even be surprised if his file structure in the code still names him as such.
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