Super Smash Bros Wii U & 3DS Thread 4: New Year, Old Arguments
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
....Nurse joy controlled by mewtwo.
a new Kalos PT or the old one?
Original.
I'M FINISHED!
Um exCUSE me Sakurai but CLEARLY the best choice for Smash Bros would be my fav niche character HOWEVER you are clearly INCOMPETENT and
Well, there was an earlier Famitsu article where Sakurai stated that having other people work on the balancing wasn't working out and that he is doing it all by himself again.
That's not at all what he said. He said he was inputting hitbox values himself because revising other people's work just takes longer.
I'd rather see Lucario or Jigglypuff gone before either of those two. And I think Jiggly has been around to long to get cut.
Yup.
I will never understand the "either or" discussions in Smash threads. It is so pointless.
Anyways, just saw this image, and noticed that Toon Link's sword is now in a different position than the one in Brawl.
Yes, it is really minor, but still something that hasn't been brought up before I think.
EDIT: It could also be a new running animation.
Anyways, just saw this image, and noticed that Toon Link's sword is now in a different position than the one in Brawl.
Yes, it is really minor, but still something that hasn't been brought up before I think.
EDIT: It could also be a new running animation.
While I loved the idea of pokemon trainer, I don't think it plays all that well. I'm totally ok with 'transforming' characters being cut into multiple characters. Samus was OK because it was a final smash transformation, which didn't limit the B moves. PKMN trainer and sheik deserve to be their own characters. The changing mechanic is way too vulnerable and not fast enough to combo, so it becomes useless, as most people just stay as one character the whole fight. No point in varying your strategy by switching characters mid-fight, as your opponent does not usually change. If it were fast enough to combo, then sure, but otherwise, it's useless, i think.
I will never understand the "either or" discussions in Smash threads. It is so pointless.
Anyways, just saw this image, and noticed that Toon Link's sword is now in a different position than the one in Brawl.
Yes, it is really minor, but still something that hasn't been brought up before I think.
EDIT: It could also be a new running animation.
isn't that his dash attack?
theprodigy
Member
since someone mentioned Toon Link, let's count all the pwings in Cosmo's WWHD speedrun!
I agree, they should get split. Switch between them on character select similar to costumes (not only holding a button before the match). I've switched from Shiek to Zelda a few times to recover, but that's about it. Pokemon Trainer had the worst of it, needing to switch because of stamina, but having an awfully slow and punishable process for it. Iirc you're pretty much stuck doing it between stocks or as they recover.
too bad mewtwo was a joke character in melee =(
You're right. Project M made me forget that he has a side slash for a dash attack lol.
I'M FINISHED!
Um exCUSE me Sakurai but CLEARLY the best choice for Smash Bros would be my fav niche character HOWEVER you are clearly INCOMPETENT and
In the earlier interview Sakurai states that he is working on the hitboxes and damage rates for all the characters. He says he does this because he is the one that comes up with character motions and fighting moves so it is better to do it himself. That is a very large workload for one person, and damage rates and hitboxes are pretty vital to a fighting games balance, any oversight in this area can potentially nullify an intended outcome. In this new interview he doesn't really explain what the other staff are actually working on when it comes to the games balance. Hopefully, there are some checks and balances in place and Sakurai isn't the only one refining the important stuff.
Didn't know this, but I mean it looks like there are missing squares. Which you know there are since there are characters to be unveiled still. But those missing parts are exactly what bother me since it takes away a possible uniformity of the character placements.
LoftyTheMetroid
Member
I agree with this. I mentioned it in the Zelda thread, but transformation characters are really only interesting if they are synergetic or somehow integrate the transformation into their gameplay. For example, maybe certain situations (such as ledge recovery) require one form, or maybe certain attacks force transformations that can only be undone through other situational moves. Otherwise, it feels like two random characters were arbitrarily stuck together for no real reason beyond flavor.
You also get at this point, I think:
Smash's transformations don't really feel justified or interesting from a gameplay perspective. Particularly with Brawl's slow transformation speeds, the transformation mechanics felt useless.
If Sakurai wants to keep transformation characters, he should make them more interesting. For example, in addition to the default Pokémon Trainer character, I'd like to see Pokémon Trainer's monsters all separated and given extra Down B moves. (Maybe explain it as "Charcoal Charizard" or "Miracle Seed Ivysaur", or some way to denote a distinction. A "hold item" explanation could tie into a single-player campaign if they were "found" or whatever.)
However, playing as Pokémon Trainer (and thus losing a Down B move and being forced to play and cycle through a trio of characters) should come with its own advantages, not solely disadvantages, through the switching mechanic. For example, instead of Stamina starting at 100% and slowly decreasing over time, maybe a Pokémon's abilities can max out at, say, 150% (better damage, resistance to knockback, etc.) while decreasing over time to a minimum (which might even just be 100%). Now there is an incentive to keep the Pokémon in rotation to have each one play better than they would have individually (besides the loss of Down B). Players can choose which play style (either Pokémon Trainer or focusing on a single monster) they prefer.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
I would like that. She would be like Skullgirl's Valentine.
You are right. It look fantastic on iPad and iPhone.
theprodigy
Member
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
zelda/shiek's transformations gave you invincibility frames what are you guys talking about, it wasent even a problem if you actually knew how to use the characters.
Well I've already said before I'd prefer PT as it represents the human part of the Pokémon world since all the other fighters and the main items all focus on the 'mon themselves.
Then again even as a kid back in '99 I didn't really care for Mewtwo so I have no strong feelings for it coming back.
Here's a link to the official playlist (US): https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLA1lIms2gwaDnOFGXUXtLj8KW5A4qNiKI
I just checked the site on my mobile, I just assume it would look the same but smaller and less icons per row, but they actually give it a unique challenger approaching banner and all the newcomers are at the top.
Number of icons pers row is identical between my tablet and my laptop, but I use a windowed browser on my laptop rather than a full screen one.
Number of icons pers row is identical between my tablet and my laptop, but I use a windowed browser on my laptop rather than a full screen one.
PT > Mewtwo
a new Kalos PT or the old one?
Would be awesome if they used the Kalos PT and if you have X or Y, you can transfer over your character's design into Smash.
They won't get rid of such a unique character mechanic.
I'm more inclined to believe Toon Zelda will be a newcomer after seeing that regular Zelda has the Phantom Guardian.
Assuming the Phantom is one of her moves, I can see regular Zelda having a Toon clone -- something Sakurai had planned for Brawl, as made evident by leftover files.
The Phantom would feel more appropriate for Toon Zelda since they both appear in Spirit Tracks. And Spirit Tracks, it should be noted, is a stage in the 3DS version.
The question, then, would be that of the transformation: Tetra, or Toon Sheik (as was the plan for Brawl)?
Assuming the Phantom is one of her moves, I can see regular Zelda having a Toon clone -- something Sakurai had planned for Brawl, as made evident by leftover files.
The Phantom would feel more appropriate for Toon Zelda since they both appear in Spirit Tracks. And Spirit Tracks, it should be noted, is a stage in the 3DS version.
The question, then, would be that of the transformation: Tetra, or Toon Sheik (as was the plan for Brawl)?
Playing a Pokémon game for the first time in a decade makes me appreciate the Pokémon Trainer character so much more. He shouldn't go anywhere. Obviously, the character doesn't work exactly like an actual Pokémon battle, but it's about as faithful a translation to Smash Bros. as possible, and he does a better job of representing the actual Pokémon games than anything else.
Better be Tetra.
Toon Zelda - > Tetra
Regular Zelda -> Shiek
That is if Toon Zelda exists. I don't see it.
Green Mamba
Member
Huh, the old one is duller and thinner in places.
Toon Zelda was originally planned for Brawl. So was Toon Sheik. There are leftover files indicating this.
Given that since then we've had Toon Zelda appear in Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks (featured in a level in SSB 3DS), and Wind Waker HD, and given that regular Zelda now has Toon Zelda's signature move (the Phantom Guardian, assuming it's part of her move-set), I could see Sakurai finishing what he started for Brawl.
But do you see an alt costume (I guess alt costumes were deconfirmed?) or a whole new character? Either way, it'd be cool.
theprodigy
Member
Sakurai has uploaded a new pic!
SmashGAF insanity is real
It would have to be a new character because the hit boxes would be different.
Whatever you consider Toon Link, is what I'd expect Toon Zelda to be. A newcomer that plays like a clone with tweaked properties. Probably one of the unlockable characters, if she's in the game.
I guess we don't know if Sakurai intended for Toon Zelda/Toon Sheik to be clones when he was planning Brawl, but one might surmise they're clones based on how Toon Link turned out (relative to regular Link).
Of course, if Toon Zelda is in, and transforms, it's harder to picture Tetra acting as a clone to Sheik. So perhaps Sakurai would go ahead with Toon Sheik as originally planned. Or perhaps the transformation character would be Tetra, and all-new.
At any rate, I'd be fine with them adding Toon Zelda. It'd be perfect with the Phantom Guardian and the Spirit Tracks stage.
AnkiRendan
Member
You are an awful person, and so are the people who want Pokemon Trainer to be cut and the Pokemon to be separated. Go play Project M in that case. Pokemon Trainer may have been flawed because of the stamina mechanic, but it was damn fun being able to use three characters in one and I have confidence Sakurai won't get rid of that concept.
Besides, the reason it took so long was because of the Wii's loading. If PT was in Melee, he wouldn't have had that problem.
I don't see there being any full-on alternate costumes (with their own set of alternate colors) beyond Wario Land Wario, girl Villager, and male Wii Fit Trainer. Those are the only "essential" costumes.
Wario's the only character in the game who stars in two completely disparate series, so it makes sense that he'd get a costume to represent each.
The Villager and Wii Fit Trainer are avatars. Including one gender and not the other implies a preference within the source material, which isn't the case. You do the exact same thing in Animal Crossing whether you play as a boy or a girl, and the option to select a male or female trainer in Wii Fit is merely aesthetic.
Technically, the Pokémon Trainer falls into the Villager/Wii Fit Trainer category, but because you don't actually play as the Pokémon Trainer in Smash Bros. there isn't a need to include a female version. The Pokémon look the same regardless of the trainer's gender.
Wario's the only character in the game who stars in two completely disparate series, so it makes sense that he'd get a costume to represent each.
The Villager and Wii Fit Trainer are avatars. Including one gender and not the other implies a preference within the source material, which isn't the case. You do the exact same thing in Animal Crossing whether you play as a boy or a girl, and the option to select a male or female trainer in Wii Fit is merely aesthetic.
Technically, the Pokémon Trainer falls into the Villager/Wii Fit Trainer category, but because you don't actually play as the Pokémon Trainer in Smash Bros. there isn't a need to include a female version. The Pokémon look the same regardless of the trainer's gender.
That's not entirely true. You could make a case for Dr. Mario. I know he was playable in Melee, but I don't see a reason why it couldn't be an alternate costume instead.
Given how popular the franchise is with ladies, and how in X/Y you can actually do more if you're a female trainer (what with the new clothing aspect, and dresses being girls' only without a boys' only category), if Villager gets a female alt, Pokémon Trainer -is- going to get one too. Mark my words.
It would be so weird for him to shoot fireballs instead of megavitamins...or atlease that'.a what sakurai said once I think.
Even the Project M guys could get the alt to shoot megavitamins. If they design it from the ground up with those alts in mind, they could pull them off for sure.
A case could be made, sure, but I still think it's entirely different than Wario's situation. There are a ton of Wario Land games and a ton of WarioWare games -- both are long-running, full-fledged series. Wario needs both costumes. Dr. Mario isn't nearly as integral to Mario as a character as Wario Land is to Wario.
You could pick out one or two alternate costumes that would work for everyone in Smash Bros., and I'm not arguing against that. All I'm saying is that Wario, Villager, and Wii Fit Trainer are the only characters where a second costume is necessary for a faithful depiction.
Yeah I know they can but I'm not expecting it. Oh well atlease pm and it's great alts exists.
Don't forget Shadow Link!
Also, it's a safe bet that Mii will have multiple "skins," insofar as you can cycle through all of the Miis on your WiiU or 3DS.
Yes, I think there's a good chance Mii will be in, as per the rumor and as per common sense (the Find Mii stage, their popularity, the novelty factor, etc).