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Supreme Court Nominee - Neil M. Gorsuch |OT|

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Storytime

Member
Y'all are forgetting 78 year old Breyer as well. Worst case scenario, Trump gets to replace 3 left leaning Justices with 3 hard line conservatives, leaving an immeasurable imprint on the country for decades to come.
 

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
Like I said, they should do it.

It won't "work" in the sense that the nominee will absolutely be appointed.

It may "work" in the sense that it inspires the base and educates people on the importance of 2018.

(The fact that Gorsuch himself isn't a Nazi -- low bar, I know -- and is a qualified, brilliant jurist doesn't matter: this is really about Kennedy and RBG's seats.)

I don't believe in this idea of "inspiring" or "rallying" the base. The Dems already have a base, the rest of the people they need to win are people who don't even know wtf a filibuster is.

If you mean preserving their base, sure, but they'll need more than that. And people who don't know wtf a fillibuster is never paid attention to SC appointments in the past and will just see this as Dems doing obstructionism, an easy sell for Trump.

It's not as easy for Dems as many make it sound.
 

kirblar

Member
I don't believe in this idea of "inspiring" or "rallying" the base. The Dems already have a base, the rest of the people they need to win are people who don't even know wtf a filibuster is.

If you mean preserving their base, sure, but they'll need more than that. And people who don't know wtf a fillibuster is never paid attention to SC appointments in the past and will just see this as Dems doing obstructionism, an easy sell for Trump.

It's not as easy for Dems as many make it sound.
Because blocking Garland hurt the GOP oh, so much.
 

JP_

Banned
If the dems do try to filibuster this, and McConnell listens to Trump and gets rid of the filibuster, then we're officially on a 2 year "old ass justices please don't die" watch.

Because if one of them dies, we'll get an absolutely insane person next when Trump knows there can be no opposition.

Not sure it's worth the risk.

If dems roll over, republicans will just kick them around like a ball anyway.

"Hey GOP, what you did was wrong, but we'll let you get away with it this time. Promise not to do it again ok?"
 
I don't see how that helps them. If they are betting on the idea that they will gain seats in 2018 *and* that the next justice nomination will take place after that election, then having a lower filibuster threshold would only benefit them, no?

If the next nomination does come before 2018 somehow, the nuclear option would simply be employed then.

I'm confused how not taking action now benefits the Democrats in any way.

Yeah, maybe I wasn't clear. Sorry, I'm juggling posts.

It doesn't matter what Democrats do. If the Republicans want a SCOTUS pick confirmed, it will happen, because I'm asserting that arcane, byzantine Senate procedures don't matter to most voters, especially if it helps their team win.

If Dems don't fight Gorsuch, the GOP wins. If they do fight Gorsuch, the GOP wins. If it's politically expedient to eliminate the filibuster, the GOP wins.

The only way the Dems win is if they: (1) retake the Senate in 2018; (2) re-enact (or maintain) the filibuster procedures and fight all nominations; and (3) Trump actually respects the Senate procedures.
 
Democrates will roll over and do nothing, spineless losers

I just don't get it. Dems are holding an W after a solid L, things are looking up. Public opinion is on 'our' side, why change that for zero outcome. What do we gain by filibustering?

Is he one of the better (of the worst) choices that Trump could choose from?

"Better" it's just like Scalia didn't die. "Worse" cause he is gonna be there for the rest of my adult life. He is exceptionally qualified and should be confirmed.
 

studyguy

Member
GOP put out the blueprint for obstruction without consequences. No one should be surprised when others follow suit and shouldn't be quick to assume the general public will give two flying fucks long enough for it to hurt in 2018.
 

ezekial45

Banned
How do I quell this rage inside of me that is just growing by the day? I feel like conservatives staged a coup in 2010 that secured half of the legislature through land (rather than through the people). Meanwhile they destroy our freedoms, take away our health care, our social safety nets, and discriminate against our must vulnerable demographics. And I feel like they're stealing the courts until I'm a frail old man. I'm fucking 28. I shouldn't be feeling like it's all over.

And they keep on putting the worst people in power simply because of their political affiliation, rather than their ability.

Like... what the fuck can I do? They shut down their phone lines. They turn away protestors. They just ignore us all. How can I reach a peaceful state of mind in a world filled with terrible people who just won't stop hurting me?

Tell me about. I'm turning 30 this year, and it suddenly on me that the world we're inheriting from the baby boomers is one that is designed to spite and hinder the younger generations, while at the same time, they expect us to be grateful for the soon to be husk of a world we'll have to spend our later years in. I can definitely understand how you would be feel powerless and complacent. It's really hard, and 2016 was a major turning point for Gen X and Millenials who see that the world is heading for a bad place.

The best thing I can say is that you can't give up. There's still, and the protests and outrage we've seen in the last couple months is reassuring. But we can't allows ourselves to fall into despair, because that's what they want for us. To be in despair and apathetic. Just hold out, stay strong, and be ever vigilant.
 

Raven117

Member
Yeah... taking a step back and looking at the possible choices of who trump could have appointed.... this is not the worst choice.

I may not agree with all of the mans positions, but he he is at least an intelligent and seemingly reasonable man.

Read sctous blog's write up on him. It will be okay... this time
 

yami4ct

Member
Fucking joke that republicans stole a SC spot and nothing happened.

It sucks. It shouldn't have happened. The public shouldn't have rewarded it, but they did. Nothing we can do about it now besides use our tools most wisely to minimize the damage.
 
Because blocking Garland hurt the GOP oh, so much.

It didn't hurt them because right-wing media didn't blast them for it. How do you think Fox News, Breitbart, et. al will react if the Democrats filibuster this nomination? It will be MADE into an issue in a way that Garland's thwarted nomination never was. I agree that the Democrats should filibuster it out of principle (Garland should've been the nominee) and strategy (it could sour relations between Trump and McConnell), but let's not act as though the right-wing media won't crucify those "obstructionist Democrats."
 

Future

Member
Hopefully this is the end of compromise on the democrats side.

Dems get the nom? Choose centrist as nominee

Repubs get the nom? Choose someone as far right as it gets

Tired of the Dems always compromising. If after trump this swings back to the Dems they need to just get it done and not worry about pleasing 100% of America. It is simply impossible to do that
 
I just don't get it. Dems are holding an W after a solid L, things are looking up. Public opinion is on 'our' side, why change that for zero outcome. What do we gain by filibustering?

It's unclear what we gain by filibustering. Gorsuch will be confirmed, one way or another. If it's more beneficial to retaking the Senate to filibuster and fight, then fight. If not, then don't.

That's the only calculation that matters.

And anyway, for an inevitability, Gorsuch isn't terrible. This could be far worse.
 

Baron Aloha

A Shining Example
If the dems do try to filibuster this, and McConnell listens to Trump and gets rid of the filibuster, then we're officially on a 2 year "old ass justices please don't die" watch.

Because if one of them dies, we'll get an absolutely insane person next when Trump knows there can be no opposition.

Not sure it's worth the risk.

We are already on a 4 year "old ass justices please don't die" watch (dems chances for taking back the senate in 2018 are slim).

You are going to get crazy regardless. If dems let this one go through what makes you think the republicans won't use the nuclear option on the next one? This is the same stupid logic that Obama tried. He kept reaching out his hand and they kept chopping it off and he never learned. They need to fight. If they don't fight they all need to be primaried.

The only way to stop Trumps nominations is to win back the senate - and to do that they need to turn out their base. Kowtowing to Trump will not help them do that.
 

GSG Flash

Nobody ruins my family vacation but me...and maybe the boy!
He is to the right of Scalia. I will be in my 60s when he kicks the bucket. This is a stolen seat. Fuck compromise. Fuck Gorsuch for going along with this spectacle. Fuck our fascist president. Fuck them all. I don't care what happens to them.

I agree with this.

Do to the Republicans what they did to Obama. Don't give them an inch.
 

Amory

Member
Why would they not get rid of it later?

Your reasoning does not make sense.

Make them pull the trigger.

The difference is, Trump doesn't know if McConnell really will get rid of it.

If they nuke the filibuster this time, then when he's making his next pick he has that in his pocket already.
 

Torokil

Member
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kirblar

Member
Of course it didn't hurt them. But it will hurt Dems. There is a difference.
No it won't. This idea that you can't punch back is so f'n stupid.

Trump has the presidency. Moron voters see things get blocked and gummed up, and they blame whoever's President. No matter who's doing the obstruction. Because they're idiots.
It didn't hurt them because right-wing media didn't blast them for it. How do you think Fox News, Breitbart, et. al will react if the Democrats filibuster this nomination? It will be MADE into an issue in a way that Garland's thwarted nomination never was. I agree that the Democrats should filibuster it out of principle (Garland should've been the nominee) and strategy (it could sour relations between Trump and McConnell), but let's not act as though the right-wing media won't crucify those "obstructionist Democrats."
F'n hell, it won't matter WHAT you do, even if you do nothing, THEY WILL MAKE SOMETHING UP. Stop playing goddamn scared.
 

sangreal

Member
Y'all are forgetting 78 year old Breyer as well. Worst case scenario, Trump gets to replace 3 left leaning Justices with 3 hard line conservatives, leaving an immeasurable imprint on the country for decades to come.

since we have thrown tradition out the window I wouldn't be surprised to see one side or the other expand the court to pack it. The number of justices is only set by statute
 

Kill3r7

Member
Is he one of the better (of the worst) choices that Trump could choose from?

One of the better ones. He is very much qualified for the job. A decent fit if you want to maintain ideological balance. Basically a Scalia clone with more religious tendencies. That said, the Dems should fight this pick tooth and nail. This is a good point to flex whatever muscle we got and play a bit of tit for tat.
 

Goro Majima

Kitty Genovese Member
Y'all are forgetting 78 year old Breyer as well. Worst case scenario, Trump gets to replace 3 left leaning Justices with 3 hard line conservatives, leaving an immeasurable imprint on the country for decades to come.

In the short term, I'm worried about what happens if Breyer, Kennedy, or RBG passes away. I feel like whole cities could burn in riot and protest.
 

Vestal

Junior Member
Id offer the Bartlet option.

You get this one, we get to pick the most flamming liberal and have RBG step down, dual confirmation... Done and done...
 

yami4ct

Member
The difference is, Trump doesn't know if McConnell really will get rid of it.

If they nuke the filibuster this time, then when he's making his next pick he has that in his pocket already.

And there's also a matter of timing. If Dems are going to filibuster every possible nom now for 4 years, that's a far bigger cost then if they do it like 3 years in. You're talking of 4 use of the power vs 1. McConnell may well do a very different mental math in that case.
 

Maxim726X

Member
It sucks. It shouldn't have happened. The public shouldn't have rewarded it, but they did. Nothing we can do about it now besides use our tools most wisely to minimize the damage.

Yeah... Like, fucking filibuster him.

What political strategy are they going to employ??

'We don't want to waste our bullets now'. Fuck that shit! If McConnell doesn't employ the nuclear option now, he will next time. There is no negotiating with terrorists.
 
He is anti gay. That is enough for me to say no. Not now, nor ever.

He's apparently written nothing on LGBT issues. The "religious freedom" stance might lead to anti-LGBT conclusions, but it might not. Read this: from LGBTQ Nation.

Besides, Pryor would be WAY WORSE on LGBT issues.

Gorsuch is an inevitable conclusion. All of Trump's picks are unless 2018 is a reversal.
 

Ryuuroden

Member
This is the law of the land passed by congress right now. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Freedom_Restoration_Act

By the way, RFRA was passed in order to override one of Scalia's decisions ruling that religious freedom couldn't override laws of general applicabilty. Ironic, isn't it?

Time to start a new religion that believes republicans should serve as slaves to minorities for all eternity. You can violate human rights if your religion believes it to be legitimate after all.
 
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