Well I don't know what Sweden feminist can be done to Iran. But I do know that there has been some hush hush for certain things.
Many voices say that Sweden officials example is a bad thing.
Sometimes you need to take a stand, even if that means cooling relations. Why western women has to bend over when other side won't even budge. They won't shake woman ministers hands even when they are in Sweden. But i guess business is more important. Just like in Finland. Our goverment makes deals with Saudis and human rights issue is not important. Money talks.
I'm not remotely close to right-wing, but I think this is bullshit and anti-feminist. What now
As someone who have family in a Muslim country that is regressing fast.I guess this depends on how we define 'feminism'. For me in regards to this particular issue, there's the premise that women can choose whatever they like to do or feel comfortable with, so for this reason I wouldn't criticize them for choosing to wear the hijab outside in public. When it comes to the whole hijab debate, it's pretty much that people shouldn't force women to wear them, but neither should people force women *not* to wear them if you see my point?
Second, it is important that people on the Left doesn't play into the Islamophobia of the right (like so-called liberals like Bill Maher's veiled racism), especially when the hard right wants to use Left-leaning politics such as feminism and LGBTQ rights as weapons against other cultures (anti-Muslim sentiments especially). In our political struggle it is important that we don't fall prey to the same fear-mongering and anxiety-fueled tactics that the right uses to demonize an entire group of many different types of complex identities and contradictions.
But this isn't about women choosing to wear a hijab out of their own volition, it's because they are pressured/forced to "respect the customs of the place".I guess this depends on how we define 'feminism'. For me in regards to this particular issue, there's the premise that women can choose whatever they like to do or feel comfortable with, so for this reason I wouldn't criticize them for choosing to wear the hijab outside in public. When it comes to the whole hijab debate, it's pretty much that people shouldn't force women to wear them, but neither should people force women *not* to wear them if you see my point?
Misogynistic customs should not be paid lip service to.Second, Just like I am told to be quiet if I enter a church or a mosque, I respect the laws or traditions in that particular space. Or that I don't come into work butt-naked because of the customs there. Or wear high heels on certain types of floors. Etc. I.e. there are all these social customs already in place, so why not bend them slightly to respect certain customs that might appear oppressive? Of course, it's entirely possible to disregard the customs and do whatever you feel like, but at the same time I wouldn't slander self-identifying feminists for choosing to pay regard to the customs.
Third, and this was the point of my post: it is important that people on the Left doesn't play into the Islamophobia of the right (like so-called liberals like Bill Maher's veiled racism), especially when the hard right wants to use Left-leaning politics such as feminism and LGBTQ rights as weapons against other cultures (anti-Muslim sentiments especially). In our political struggle it is important that we don't fall prey to the same fear-mongering and anxiety-fueled tactics that the right uses to demonize an entire group of many different types of complex identities and contradictions.
As someone who have family in a Muslim country that is regressing fast.
The only real left is the one that is anti-religion.
Any other left are supporting people that have the same end game as trump.
Third, and this was the point of my post: it is important that people on the Left doesn't play into the Islamophobia of the right (like so-called liberals like Bill Maher's veiled racism), especially when the hard right wants to use Left-leaning politics such as feminism and LGBTQ rights as weapons against other cultures (anti-Muslim sentiments especially). In our political struggle it is important that we don't fall prey to the same fear-mongering and anxiety-fueled tactics that the right uses to demonize an entire group of many different types of complex identities and contradictions.
But this isn't about women choosing to wear a hijab out of their own volition, it's because they are pressured/forced to "respect the customs of the place".
Misogynistic customs should not be paid lip service to.
Meh. I am not responsible for the fallacious arguments of idiot right-wingers who hijack real arguments for their concern trolling.
I love how Maher is a so-called liberal. A guy hyper critical of police, pro-drug legalization, pro-LGBT, pro-choice, anti-gun etc. etc. is somehow not liberal enough for you and some other liberals. But I know why, because he's actually critical of Islam just as he is with every other religion. He took a ton of shit from the right for once saying that in America you can justify any form of discrimination if you source it to "God's big book of bad ideas". But he made an excellent point about liberals when he talked about how in Rome nude statues were covered for a visit by the president of Iran. He said
"I wish they (liberals/progressives) would have the same enthusiasm for intolerance elsewhere in the world as they do for Christians"
And he's spot on. If you want to start making things better for Muslim's throughout the world then shutting down conversations that are critical of the more problematic aspects of the religion is absolutely the wrong way to go about it. In America we never would've made it where we are now in terms of LGBT rights if the left acted the same way toward Christianity as they do toward Islam right now. But that's not how things went here. The left didn't care about the excuses that were made from Christian's to justify discrimination. And as such we slowly marched toward a point where things have gotten better for the LGBT community. It's not perfect by any means, but it's made significant strides specifically because the left/progressives didn't relent on pushing back on a critical reason why homophobia was/is so prevalent in this country.
Nothing positive is being accomplished by the left/progressives avoiding having conversations about the issues within Islam. Issues that progressives within the religion are fighting against. All that's happening while silence is occurring on the left is the far right is getting stronger. They build their entire campaigns around attacking Islam and painting the entire religion as being a danger. Their ideas of how to "fix" what they see to be the issue are blatantly discriminatory and extreme as we've seen with Trump. And that's why it's important for the left to not just stand up to that bigotry, but also standup for the Muslim's within the religion that are pushing back against the problematic aspects within it. The left needs to stop creating this atmosphere where criticism of Islam makes you an Islamaphobe because that literally only helps the far right.
I look forward to that topic. Calling Bill Maher 'racist' for his legitimate criticisms of Islam is laughable. He's anything but. It's about time people learned that Islam can be criticized just like every other major religion. This isn't even beginning to mention the fact that being Muslim is not a race, it's holding a set of ideas.The point about Bill Maher is different and for another topic, but honestly he has shitty and frankly racist views on 'Muslims' and he's the archetype 'both sides' stubborn liberal that I cannot stand. But that's a different discussion.
...That makes no sense. Sorry, Lime, but no. That's not "addressing the problem", that's caving in to it.My point is that the Swedish politicians did choose to address the problem of the hijab in a manner they saw fit - i.e. visit the country and wear it in public as demanded by the local (oppressive) customs.
Again, you're conflating right-wing hypocrisy with actual feminist criticism. You know full well that plenty of feminists attack both as needed.Moreover, it can be beyond hypocritical that misogynist aspects of different expressions of Islam are criticized and condemned, while European or North American misogynist aspects are accepted or even defended.
I look forward to that topic. Calling Bill Maher 'racist' for his legitimate criticisms of Islam is laughable. He's anything but. It's about time people learned that Islam can be criticized just like every other major religion. This isn't even beginning to mention the fact that being Muslim is not a race, it's holding a set of ideas.
...That makes no sense. Sorry, Lime, but no. That's not "addressing the problem", that's caving in to it.
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2014/oct/06/bill-maher-islam-ben-affleck
http://www.salon.com/2015/04/18/7_times_bill_maher_was_a_straight_up_bigot/
http://www.alternet.org/media/19-dumbest-most-bigoted-things-bill-maher-has-ever-said
http://crooksandliars.com/2015/09/bill-maher-bigoted-racist-sexist-shtbird
...That makes no sense. Sorry, Lime, but no. That's not "addressing the problem", that's caving in to it.
Again, you're conflating right-wing hypocrisy with actual feminist criticism. You know full well that plenty of feminists attack both as needed.
TurkeyWhich country is that?
I think this is a quality post and I appreciate you taking the time to write it. I don't fundamentally disagree with it, solidsnakex, but there are too many complexities when we talk about Muslim identities and how and why they choose to express themselves to use it as a way forward.
The point is that the solution to dealing with the issues of gender in different Muslim cultures (Arab? Middle Eastern? Persian? Indonesian? Indian? Pakistan? Etc.) is not the simplistic, generalizing ways that the Islamophobic right and center offer, and I personally don't think that it's productive . Moreover, it can be beyond hypocritical that misogynist aspects of different expressions of Islam are criticized and condemned, while European or North American misogynist aspects are accepted or even defended.
The point about Bill Maher is different and for another topic, but honestly he has shitty and frankly racist views on 'Muslims' and he's the archetype 'both sides' stubborn liberal that I cannot stand. But that's a different discussion.
