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Syrian Civil War: Assad Regime accused of boosting Al-Qaeda with secret oil deals

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The Syrian regime of President Bashar al-Assad has funded and co-operated with al-Qaeda in a complex double game even as the terrorists fight Damascus, according to new allegations by Western intelligence agencies, rebels and al-Qaeda defectors.
Jabhat al-Nusra, and the even more extreme Islamic State of Iraq and al-Shams (ISIS), the two al-Qaeda affiliates operating in Syria, have both been financed by selling oil and gas from wells under their control to and through the regime, intelligence sources have told The Daily Telegraph.

Rebels and defectors say the regime also deliberately released militant prisoners to strengthen jihadist ranks at the expense of moderate rebel forces. The aim was to persuade the West that the uprising was sponsored by Islamist militants including al-Qaeda as a way of stopping Western support for it.

The allegations by Western intelligence sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, are in part a public response to demands by Assad that the focus of peace talks due to begin in Switzerland tomorrow be switched from replacing his government to co-operating against al-Qaeda in the “war on terrorism”.

“Assad’s vow to strike terrorism with an iron fist is nothing more than bare-faced hypocrisy,” an intelligence source said. “At the same time as peddling a triumphant narrative about the fight against terrorism, his regime has made deals to serve its own interests and ensure its survival.”

Intelligence gathered by Western secret services suggested the regime began collaborating actively with these groups again in the spring of 2013. When Jabhat al-Nusra seized control of Syria’s most lucrative oil fields in the eastern province of Deir al-Zour, it began funding its operations in Syria by selling crude oil, with sums raised in the millions of dollars.

“The regime is paying al-Nusra to protect oil and gas pipelines under al-Nusra’s control in the north and east of the country, and is also allowing the transport of oil to regime-held areas,” the source said. “We are also now starting to see evidence of oil and gas facilities under ISIS control.”

The source accepted that the regime and the al-Qaeda affiliates were still hostile to each other and the relationship was opportunistic, but added that the deals confirmed that “despite Assad’s finger-pointing” his regime was to blame for the rise of al-Qaeda in Syria.

Western diplomats were furious at recent claims that delegations of officials led by a retired MI6 officer had visited Damascus to re-open contact with the Assad regime. There is no doubt that the West is alarmed at the rise of al-Qaeda within the rebel ranks, which played a major role in decisions by Washington and London to back off from sending arms to the opposition.

But the fury is also an indication that they suspect they have been outmanoeuvred by Assad, who has during his rule alternated between waging war on Islamist militants and working with them.

After September 11, he co-operated with the United States’ rendition programme for militant suspects; after the invasion of Iraq, he helped al-Qaeda to establish itself in Western Iraq as part of an axis of resistance to the West; then when the group turned violently against the Iraqi Shias who were backed by Assad’s key ally, Iran, he began to arrest them again.

As the uprising against his rule began, Assad switched again, releasing al-Qaeda prisoners. It happened as part of an amnesty, said one Syrian activist who was released from Sednaya prison near Damascus at the same time.

“There was no explanation for the release of the jihadis,” the activist, called Mazen, said. “I saw some of them being paraded on Syrian state television, accused of being Jabhat al-Nusra and planting car bombs. This was impossible, as they had been in prison with me at the time the regime said the bombs were planted. He was using them to promote his argument that the revolution was made of extremists.”

Other activists and former Sednaya inmates corroborated his account, and analysts have identified a number of former prisoners now at the head of militant groups, including Jabhat al-Nusra, ISIS and a third group, Ahrar al-Sham, which fought alongside Jabhat al-Nusra but has now turned against ISIS.

One former inmate said he had been in prison with “Abu Ali” who is now the head of the ISIS Sharia court in the north-eastern al-Qaeda-run city of Raqqa. Another said he knew leaders in Raqqa and Aleppo who were prisoners in Sednaya until early 2012.
These men then spearheaded the gradual takeover of the revolution from secular activists, defected army officers and more moderate Islamist rebels.

Syrian intelligence has historically had close connections with extremist groups. In an interview with The Daily Telegraph after he defected, Nawaf al-Fares, a Syrian security chief, told how he was part of an operation to smuggle jihadist volunteers into Iraq from Syria after the 2003 invasion.

Aron Lund, editor of a website, Syria in Crisis, used by the Carnegie Endowment to monitor the war, said: “The regime has done a good job in trying to turn the revolution Islamist. The releases from Sednaya prison are a good example of this. The regime claims that it released the prisoners because Assad had shortened their sentences as part of a general amnesty. But it seems to have gone beyond that. There are no random acts of kindness from this regime.”

Rebels both inside and outside ISIS also say they believe the regime targeted its attacks on non-militant groups, leaving ISIS alone. “We were confident that the regime would not bomb us,” an ISIS defector, who called himself Murad, said. “We always slept soundly in our bases.”

What a double play and what an interesting development.

EDIT:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-boosting-Al-Qaeda-with-secret-oil-deals.html

EDIT 2 further reports; On the release of bin Ladens personal envoy:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...al-Qaeda-means-West-will-not-trust-Assad.html
Syrias duplicit over al-Qaed means West will not trust Assad

How one of Osama bin Laden’s personal envoys, Mohammed Bahaiah, ended up in an Assad regime dungeon is a long story with several details missing. How he came to be free to run al-Qaeda’s errands again is simpler: he was released in 2011, on the orders of the Syrian president.
From the start of the uprising against him, President Bashar al-Assad claimed he was facing a terrorist insurrection. It might seem odd, then, that at the same time he would free an important al-Qaeda operative.

Bahaiah, also known as Abu Khaled al-Suri, was one of a string of militants freed during an amnesty offered as a concession to the opposition, according to jihad-monitoring analysts. The opposition always cried foul, and cases like his perhaps showed what really happened – Islamist militants were released, while secular activists continued to be rounded up.

But then Assad, a pragmatist who understood the West, had long played an oscillating game with al-Qaeda, partly to keep one step ahead of Western pressure on his regime.
Even before the Arab Spring began, the same cry went up from Egypt, Libya - and Damascus: “Choose us, or the jihadis.” Each beleaguered government alternately persecuted and engaged with Islamism, as pragmatism dictated.

But that reflected a bigger truth: jihadism had flourished under all three regimes, with Libyans, Egyptians and Syrians prominent in al-Qaeda.
Ayman al-Zawahiri, the Egyptian who took over from bin Laden, had been released from prison by then-President Hosni Mubarak. Abu Khaled is now his personal envoy to the Syrian jihad.


Western intelligence agencies have played their own games, of course, but in the midst of the Arab Spring’s sea of change have no wish to see them revived: hence their determination, as revealed publicly now, to refuse Assad’s kind offer to “resume co-operation”.

It is hard in any case to know what such co-operation would entail. Allies of the West, like Turkey, could cut off the rebels’ supply lines – but the rebels they are supporting are the very brigades now fighting al-Qaeda’s front, the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Shams. It is being supplied from its bases in Iraq.

And what would Syria offer in return? The days of rendition of terrorist suspects are over, and the regime seems unlikely to regain control of parts of the north held by al-Qaeda, with or without Western assistance. Instead, these “Western officials” think that only Syria’s Sunni majority can defeat al-Qaeda. And they are still demanding Assad go as part of the bargain.
 
CHEEZMO™;97861490 said:
I remember hearing about this forever ago.

That's because the opposition did talk about it in the early years of the revolution. If you remember there was deal between the regime and the opposition to release prisoners to try to calm things down. Alot of these people were former Al-Qaida.

Don't tell me that there isn't anything to the story when OBL's own personal envoy gets released in the midst of a revolution against his own regime.

The arab dictatorships have always played a double game to keep themselves safe. As the article says: "Choose us or the jihadis"
 

CHEEZMO™

Obsidian fan
That's because the opposition did talk about it in the early years of the revolution. If you remember there was deal between the regime and the opposition to release prisoners to try to calm things down. Alot of these people were former Al-Qaida.

Don't tell me that there isn't anything to the story when OBL's own personal envoy gets released in the midst of a revolution against his own regime.

The arab dictatorships have always played a double game to keep themselves safe. As the article says: "Choose us or the jihadis"

I meant the oil deals but yeah, that too. Even Zahran Alloush says it's probably why he was released in 2011.

Keep tens of thousands of peaceful, secular, pro-democracy protesters in your dungeons but release loads of Salafi militants. Way to go!
 

liger05

Member
This is kinda laughable and is simply a case of trying to paint ISIS & Nusra as agents of the regime. ISIS have been accused of this before and the same will happen to Nusra.

Its pretty dump as if prisoners being released then going on to join or lead rebel groups makes them agents of Assad then the whole Islamic Fron is an Assad proxy as Zahran Alloush was released.

Lets not forget the FSA/SNC where the likes of Salim Idriss and others were actually part of the regime and defected.
 
Personally I have a hard time believing this and I'm getting more and more skeptical of the things "Syrian defectors" are coming out with. It smells to me like a Saudi/Qatar smear campaign, as if that was necessary.

Although there is now that study saying the gas used "could never have been fired from territory Assad controls".

So who knows what to believe now.
 
This is kinda laughable and is simply a case of trying to paint ISIS & Nusra as agents of the regime. ISIS have been accused of this before and the same will happen to Nusra.

Its pretty dump as if prisoners being released then going on to join or lead rebel groups makes them agents of Assad then the whole Islamic Fron is an Assad proxy as Zahran Alloush was released.

Lets not forget the FSA/SNC where the likes of Salim Idriss and others were actually part of the regime and defected.

Not agents of the regime but as a means for the regime trying (and succeding) to create an terrorist entity in the revolutionaries ranks to create a propaganda machine portraying the whole revolution as only foreign terrorists. You know the PR trick number one, in Syrian State TV.
 

liger05

Member
Not agents of the regime but as a means for the regime trying (and succeding) to create an terrorist entity in the revolutionaries ranks to create a propaganda machine portraying the whole revolution as only foreign terrorists. You know the PR trick number one, in Syrian State TV.

But why the need to. ISIS & Nusra don’t try to hide their intentions. They have been quite clear on what there aims are and what they want post Assad. Nusra were designated a terrorist organisation from the beginning.

I think it’s more to do with the Saudi/Qatar governments wanting to try and discredit the ISIS & Nusra and prop up their own Islamic Front group. The IF trying to fight ISIS is down to the Saudi’s.
 
But why the need to. ISIS & Nusra don’t try to hide their intentions. They have been quite clear on what there aims are and what they want post Assad. Nusra were designated a terrorist organisation from the beginning.

I think it’s more to do with the Saudi/Qatar governments wanting to try and discredit the ISIS & Nusra and prop up their own Islamic Front group. The IF trying to fight ISIS is down to the Saudi’s.

Could be. The fact still is though that top officials from Al-Qaida was released in the deal between the opposition and the Regime, while more moderate forces was still being rounded up.

The reason behind it then, IMO, is pretty clear.

The dictator states in ME has always played a double game propping up terror organizations on one side and then playing the West on the other side.

Syria was an accomplice with the West in the "interrogations" of suspected terrorists and other people long before the revolution. Why the change of fate suddenly and the release of them ?
 

Buzzman

Banned
While I don't doubt this, I can't blame anyone for thinking that this is yet another conspiracy by the West to get involved in Syria.
 
this whole situation is just so damn confusing, tragic and sad. Historians are gonna have a hard time writing a true account of this as its like 13 different sides all dealing and double dealing with each other while hundreds of thousands die.
 
The Syrian opposition is fighting against two (Al Assad and Iran coalition army) and Al Qaeda. Suprisingly there is a sync between Al Assad and Al Qaeda attacks on the opposition.
 
While I don't doubt this, I can't blame anyone for thinking that this is yet another conspiracy by the West to get involved in Syria.

True.

The West is trying to find any opportunity to go in; With the discovery of thousands of pictures that prove an systematic torture of thousands upon thousands of people in the infamous Syrian dungeons, this case might be it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ias-torturers-must-be-brought-to-justice.html

William Hague: Syria's torturers must be brought to justice

Foreign Secretary says perpetrators of 'horrific' abuse must be held to account

William Hague, the Foreign Secretary, has insisted perpetrators of human rights abuses in Syria must be brought to justice after gruesome evidence emerged of torture and killings by government forces.

London-based investigators examined more than 55,000 photographs said to show the emaciated corpses of victims, some of whom had eyes gouged out and showed signs of electrocution.

The former war crimes prosecutors' report on the images - apparently smuggled out by a defector - indicated that "agents" of Bashar Assad's regime are implicated. Damascus has denied allegations of abuses.

Speaking in the Commons, Mr Hague said Britain was doing "a great deal" to catalogue evidence of human rights violations.

"I've seen a lot of this evidence, it is compelling and horrific and it is important those who have perpetrated these crimes are one day held to account," he said.

"The United Kingdom has done a great deal in the documentation of human rights abuses. Part of the support we have given to moderate political forces in Syria is to train human rights activists in the recording and documentation of crimes, many of which have therefore come to the world's attention.
"We will do more of that."

The report was commissioned by Qatar, which supports Syrian rebel and opposition groups.

One of the authors, Professor Sir Geoffrey Nice, told the BBC's Newsday programme that the scale and consistency of the killings provided strong evidence of government involvement and could support a criminal prosecution.
Mr Hague also answered questions in the House on the United Nations' decision to withdraw Iran's invitation to the so-called Geneva II peace conference.

"It is very important to the future peace of Syria - whenever we come to that, whenever we are able to bring that about - to have Iranian commitment to it," he said.
"That is extremely important and that is why we have never opposed on principle Iranian involvement in the Geneva II process.

"I stressed last week in the Commons that it would be important for them to give some constructive signal of how they would approach Geneva, that they would approach Geneva II on the same basis as all other nations - to implement the Geneva communique of June 2012.

"It is a great shame they felt unable to do that publicly yesterday and that was why, to save the Geneva II process, the UN secretary-general rescinded the invitation he had issued on Sunday."

In a telephone call with Iranian counterpart Mohammad Javad Zarif this afternoon, Mr Hague insisted Britain "remained open" to working with Tehran to end the conflict in Syria.

Iran on Tuesday accused UN chief Ban Ki-moon of bowing to outside pressure to rescind Tehran's invitation to a peace conference on Syria and said the forum was likely to fail.
"We regret that Secretary General Ban Ki-moon has withdrawn the invitation under pressure," Mr Zarif told reporters, ISNA news agency reported.


"It is also regretful that Mr Ban does not have the courage to provide the real reasons for the withdrawal," he said.

"This behaviour is beneath the dignity of the UN's secretary general."

After strong objections from the United States and the Syrian opposition, Ban on Monday withdrew his invitation to Iran, the Damascus regime's main regional ally, less than 24 hours after it was issued.

Iranian participation in the peace talks has been one of the thorniest issues in the build-up to the talks opening Wednesday in Switzerland.

Iran refuses to consent to a transitional government in Syria, which was agreed at a first international Geneva gathering in June 2012 to end the brutal civil war.

Aladin Borujerdi, chief of Iran's parliamentary foreign affairs commission, blamed Washington for Tehran being struck off the invitation list.

"Iran's exclusion shows this body changes its opinion under the influence and pressure from the US," he said.

Zarif played down his country's absence from the so-called Geneva II conference, saying Tehran which had only received an invitation at the weekend was "not too keen on attending in the first place."
 

CHEEZMO™

Obsidian fan
The West neither is nor wants to "go in". The only people who think this are the sorts of people who watch RT. They have been working too hard and too long with Iran to mend relations.
 
CHEEZMO™;97943510 said:
The West neither is nor wants to "go in". The only people who think this are the sorts of people who watch RT. They have been working too hard and too long with Iran to mend relations.

Wouldn't Assad winning be a blow to the Western influence in the region ?

Or is the nuclear deal with Iran a sign of changing alliances in the Middle East ?
 

CHEEZMO™

Obsidian fan
Wouldn't Assad winning be a blow to the Western influence in the region ?

Or is the nuclear deal with Iran a sign of changing alliances in the Middle East ?

Perhaps the latter. For the West, Syria is just a (very huge) chess piece in the diplomatic kabuki with Iran that's been going on for the last couple of years.

The khaleejis are the ones who genuinely care about the conflict; the West just want to minimise blowback which is why their support has been so (relatively) milquetoast.
 

demolitio

Member
True.

The West is trying to find any opportunity to go in; With the discovery of thousands of pictures that prove an systematic torture of thousands upon thousands of people in the infamous Syrian dungeons, this case might be it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ias-torturers-must-be-brought-to-justice.html

The West doesn't want to go in at all so I'm not where that comes into play. There's a reason why they backed off of the stupid "red line" statement Obama made and what little support the conflict had is gone now after recent events. It's a lose-lose situation as far as the game of chess goes and results are a costly civil war that has basically been out of the news for so long due to people's short attention spans and the networks moving on to the next big thing.

In fact, when the leader of the FSA was run out of the country by the extremists and they seized the warehouse of military gear from the West, that pretty much ensured nothing would be done.

I actually heard something pretty funny from a friend who has a decent job with the government but I don't want to say it without any concrete sources obviously, but let's just say that they're doing everything in their power to back away from earlier claims about chemical weapons and they never want to go in there.

I know people want to fit their narrative about the West wanting to go in, but let's be real. I don't know how Western Europe feels but support in the U.S. isn't really vocal anymore.
 
Alright. I'm going to need an unbiased opinion on this one. Typical propaganda?

I think the right way would be to research the story yourself and then make up your mind instead of letting someone else tell you whats true or not.


There has been several reports from several reputable news sites about this case of the torture and execution of up 11000 people.

Looking at the reputation of the regime and the anecdotal evidence of my cousin being kidnapped and tortured in 7 months by the regime I'd say that the story isn't that far fetched.

The Syrian Mukhabarat is infamous for this in the Arab world.

EDIT: I must add though that the report was comissioned by Qatar, a state which supports the Rebels. The reporte was made by three former war crime prosecutors based on the pictures of a defected regime military photographer.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-25836550

EDIT: Several pictures of the supposed systematic torture has also been made public. Following link is a danish news website reporting on the case with pictures; Jørgen Lange Thomsen professor at the Forensic Institute Syddansk University compares the cases with Pol Pot or Hitlers tortures and killings.

http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Udland/2014/01/21/144802.htm
 
It's fresh off the CIA's propaganda desk.

Pretty much.

Public opinion has turned against Kerry, the Suadis, and Turks. They created a fucking mess and can't win, and they're trying to use the Geneva 2 meeting as a means to persuade Assad to step down - as opposed to negotiating a ceasefire - now that they couldn't achieve that outcome on the battlefield. Trying to pass off the salafists as pawns of Assad is just so laughably ridiculous.

The MIT study showing that Assad's forces couldn't have launched those chem attacks is also pretty damning.

US neo-cons manipulating intelligence again to get a war - what else is new. US is declining faster than a turd flushed down a toilet bowl - and getting incredibly desperate.
 
Pretty much.

Public opinion has turned against Kerry, the Suadis, and Turks. They created a fucking mess and can't win, and they're trying to use the Geneva 2 meeting as a means to persuade Assad to step down - as opposed to negotiating a ceasefire - now that they couldn't achieve that outcome on the battlefield. Trying to pass off the salafists as pawns of Assad is just so laughably ridiculous.

The MIT study showing that Assad's forces couldn't have launched those chem attacks is also pretty damning.

US neo-cons manipulating intelligence again to get a war - what else is new. US is declining faster than a turd flushed down a toilet bowl - and getting incredibly desperate.

You can't just wave away anything you don't like as propaganda. That's not how this works.
 
Fascinating how these stories are coming out right as the peace talks are starting.

A cynical person might think there's something to that.

Of course, all of these new revelations could be true - but then if one grants that, one also has to account for the obvious manufacturing that occurred when blame for the gas attacks was leveled at the Assad regime.

Ugh, what a mess.
 
You can't just wave away anything you don't like as propaganda. That's not how this works.

That's how it always works. Look how people have been disregarding every report on the chemical attack until one comes out where the possibility is mentioned the rebels fired a massive bunch of sarin at themselves and not their enemies and that report is now the truth.

Here is now it works:
-Divide the conflict into two sides
-Determine which side is aligned with the US, directly or indirectly.
-The US aligned side is responsible for the conflict existing, the non-US aligned side is only reacting.
-When the non-US aligned side does something truly monstrous it's a false flag that proves how evil the US aligned side is
-When the US-aligned side does something truly monstrous it proves how evil they are.
 
Not agents of the regime but as a means for the regime trying (and succeding) to create an terrorist entity in the revolutionaries ranks to create a propaganda machine portraying the whole revolution as only foreign terrorists. You know the PR trick number one, in Syrian State TV.

At that point, it wouldn't actually be propaganda, it'd be outright true. Various reports over the last several years have all suggested the gradual Islamification (I don't think that's a word) of, for want of a better term, the non-regime forces. They've discussed how there's often fighting between these groups, when they aren't fighting Assad, because the 'normal' revolutionaries know that living under ISIS etc would be no better than the original regime.
 

Sibylus

Banned
Basically lol.

There was a news report the other day (on the BBC) about Western powers trying to hide war crimes and atrocities committed by the rebels. Now why would they do that?
Simple: the timeless game of cover-ass. The zeal to wade into this debacle may be gone, but political blocs who once fervently supported it are in no rush to have the atrocities of their almost-allies brought up in the present to blot them.
 
You can't just wave away anything you don't like as propaganda. That's not how this works.
This one is a bit too obvious though.

It's almost like the "plot" of the two Iranian nationals who to hire a Mexican drug cartel to kill the Saudi ambassador in DC.

Or the sudden North Africa and Middle East embassy "terror scare" announced the SAME WEEK Greenwald began reporting on the Snowden leaked NSA docs in a lame effort to show how well NSA surveillance is "working".

USG propaganda is so easily recognizable only folks with half a brain could fall for it. Almost anyone can see through this nonsense. Any of course, you wouldn't be upset with anyone for legitimately being skeptical about anything USG says, right? I know you wouldn't. You couldn't be.

That's how it always works. Look how people have been disregarding every report on the chemical attack until one comes out where the possibility is mentioned the rebels fired a massive bunch of sarin at themselves and not their enemies and that report is now the truth.

*snip*
I don't think that's true at all. No other report assigned blame at all. It's just 'best guess' depending on what their political persuasion is. The MIT study lists evidence about how one side is extremely less likely to have launched chem attacks than the other. You should read it. It's mostly pictures, graphs, and maths - and it makes sense.
 
That's how it always works. Look how people have been disregarding every report on the chemical attack until one comes out where the possibility is mentioned the rebels fired a massive bunch of sarin at themselves and not their enemies and that report is now the truth.

Here is now it works:
-Divide the conflict into two sides
-Determine which side is aligned with the US, directly or indirectly.
-The US aligned side is responsible for the conflict existing, the non-US aligned side is only reacting.
-When the non-US aligned side does something truly monstrous it's a false flag that proves how evil the US aligned side is
-When the US-aligned side does something truly monstrous it proves how evil they are.

I think you explained perfectly how alot of these conflicts in the ME is portrayed by some groups.

At that point, it wouldn't actually be propaganda, it'd be outright true. Various reports over the last several years have all suggested the gradual Islamification (I don't think that's a word) of, for want of a better term, the non-regime forces. They've discussed how there's often fighting between these groups, when they aren't fighting Assad, because the 'normal' revolutionaries know that living under ISIS etc would be no better than the original regime.

Theres huge in-fighting right now! And I agree that livind under ISIS would be WORSE than under the original regime.

But if everything is propaganda now then what the heck can you believe.

Is the torture dungeons propaganda too ? Assad just an innocent actor caught in the geopolitical game of others trying to hurt his peaceful state ? Bullshit I say.
 

Azih

Member
That's how it always works. Look how people have been disregarding every report on the chemical attack until one comes out where the possibility is mentioned the rebels fired a massive bunch of sarin at themselves and not their enemies and that report is now the truth.

Here is now it works:
-Divide the conflict into two sides
-Determine which side is aligned with the US, directly or indirectly.
-The US aligned side is responsible for the conflict existing, the non-US aligned side is only reacting.
-When the non-US aligned side does something truly monstrous it's a false flag that proves how evil the US aligned side is
-When the US-aligned side does something truly monstrous it proves how evil they are.

Be fair. This works in reverse too to the exact same degree for people with the opposite affiliation.

As for the report... Saudi Arabia is DIRECTLY pumping money into the Al-Qaedaish elements of the Syrian rebellion. This is a bigger problem by an order of magnitude as compared to whatever Shady double game conspiracy Assad might or might not be carrying out with the same elements.
 
Theres huge in-fighting right now! And I agree that livind under ISIS would be WORSE than under the original regime.

But if everything is propaganda now then what the heck can you believe.

Is the torture dungeons propaganda too ? Assad just an innocent actor caught in the geopolitical game of others trying to hurt his peaceful state ? Bullshit I say.

Well, I don't think anyone thinks that bottom one, really. But there's no reason why it can't all be true (other than, say, specific allegations, such as the gas attack). Everyone has their reasons to lie and omit, and it's a civil war - most of the people involved know that if they lose, they'll die. There's no "good" side, which I think is the main reason the west didn't intervene last year - by that point it was already too late. Assad knows that the enemy of his enemy is his "friend", for now at least, and that a divided opposition makes his life a lot easier. When the infighting stops and he's left with one opponent (even if it's Al-Qaeda) he's got a track record of showing less... qualms with fighting fire with fire, in a way that the coalition couldn't in Iraq and Afghanistan. Al-Qaeda desperately need a stronghold now they've been chased out of several other countries, and away from the drones in Pakistan. This represents a perfect change - not to mention that ISIS's explicit intention is the creation of a Syrian-Iraqi caliphate. Then you have the "normal" revolutionaries who, in the face of these two barbaric opponents, can't respond with pillows and marshmellows. Who knows what's true - but I Don't think it's wise to just go "LOL Cia conspiracy". One needs to remain open to the possibility that anything's true, in this fucked up situation.
 
I think you explained perfectly how alot of these conflicts in the ME is portrayed by some groups.



Theres huge in-fighting right now! And I agree that livind under ISIS would be WORSE than under the original regime.

But if everything is propaganda now then what the heck can you believe.

Is the torture dungeons propaganda too ? Assad just an innocent actor caught in the geopolitical game of others trying to hurt his peaceful state ? Bullshit I say.

I don't think anybody would flat out deny the Assad regime is guilty of torture and imprisonment; I mean, it's the Ba'ath party in power, enough said. The idea that 11,000 were tortured and killed over three years during a Civil War would not surprise me or shock me. States all over the region have a terrible reputation for it, they used to get inmates at Guantanamo to talk by convincing them they were being sent back to places like Jordan where they knew they would endure worse than waterboarding.

But is the release of this story part of an agenda? That would not surprise me either.
 
I don't think anybody would flat out deny the Assad regime is guilty of torture and imprisonment; I mean, it's the Ba'ath party in power, enough said. The idea that 11,000 were tortured and killed over three years during a Civil War would not surprise me or shock me. States all over the region have a terrible reputation for it, they used to get inmates at Guantanamo to talk by convincing them they were being sent back to places like Jordan where they knew they would endure worse than waterboarding.

But is the release of this story part of an agenda? That would not surprise me either.

Well, I don't think anyone thinks that bottom one, really. But there's no reason why it can't all be true (other than, say, specific allegations, such as the gas attack). Everyone has their reasons to lie and omit, and it's a civil war - most of the people involved know that if they lose, they'll die. There's no "good" side, which I think is the main reason the west didn't intervene last year - by that point it was already too late. Assad knows that the enemy of his enemy is his "friend", for now at least, and that a divided opposition makes his life a lot easier. When the infighting stops and he's left with one opponent (even if it's Al-Qaeda) he's got a track record of showing less... qualms with fighting fire with fire, in a way that the coalition couldn't in Iraq and Afghanistan. Al-Qaeda desperately need a stronghold now they've been chased out of several other countries, and away from the drones in Pakistan. This represents a perfect change - not to mention that ISIS's explicit intention is the creation of a Syrian-Iraqi caliphate. Then you have the "normal" revolutionaries who, in the face of these two barbaric opponents, can't respond with pillows and marshmellows. Who knows what's true - but I Don't think it's wise to just go "LOL Cia conspiracy". One needs to remain open to the possibility that anything's true, in this fucked up situation.

I guess that is true too. There is truly no good guys in this conflict...

Be fair. This works in reverse too to the exact same degree for people with the opposite affiliation.

As for the report... Saudi Arabia is DIRECTLY pumping money into the Al-Qaedaish elements of the Syrian rebellion. This is a bigger problem by an order of magnitude as compared to whatever Shady double game conspiracy Assad might or might not be carrying out with the same elements.

SA pumping money in Al Qaida ? Not true. They have been pumping money into Islamic Front which is in in-fighting with ISIS at this moment.

I have no idea where ISIS gets their money from though.

According to two sources – one whose brother was at the meeting: "They talked about the fighting with ISIS, and the Americans encouraged the commanders to attack."
The Syrian Revolutionary Front, whose main commander, Jamal Maarouf, is allied to Saudi Arabia, and the Army of Islam, a new coalition of the moderate rebels sponsored by Qatar, have continued to liaise with the CIA and Saudi and Qatari intelligence, others close to meetings said.

These groups received a boost in arms supplies. According to a source who facilitates governments' lethal and non-lethal aid to Western-friendly groups: "Qatar sent arms first. Saudi Arabia didn't want to be out done, so one week before the attack on ISIS, they gave 80 tons of weaponry, including heavy machine guns".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-backs-rebels-to-fight-al-Qaeda-in-Syria.html
 
who's winning this fight, is there an end in sight

At the moment it seems like rebel infighting has given Assad some breathing space.

End in sight? I don't think so. There's a summit going on in Geneva right now but the Syrian National Coalition does not represent the key players in the rebels at all. Diplomatic solution seems very unlikely since everyone demands Assad must step down for peace and Assad's representatives basically refuse that so little ground is being made.
 
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