Support NeoGAF

[shpankey]

But it is more relevant to us consumers who make up 99% of this board.

If a Console company is shitty to its developers in whatever way and they still bring us quality games, should we really care what goes on behind the scenes? Are you going to stop playing Halo2 or GTA becuase of industry polotics?

i don't know what you're saying here. but i meant not having a FF API is not relevant to a console manufacturer having a great support system for developers. also i have no idea what you're saying in the second and third sentences there, as i never even remotely implied i wouldn't play any games based on any of this stuff. i am selfish in that regard. my whole original point was basically about how the console makers help and support their devs. i don't understand where you got all this stuff from.

 

[shpankey]

Fair enough, but they for example let the whole sports team go, seemingly because they finally got the EA XBL contract to go through. Or how some (most?) of the Xbox leads let the company under various circumstances.

I'm by no means saying that Sony doesn't have their share of unfair practices, and Nintendo was probably the worst offender in the past, btw.

actually, i thought i read somewhere that they just have all their MGS teams (including the sports teams) instead working on Xbox 2 titles (?) which would make sense since the Xbox 2 is pretty heavily rumored to be coming out in 2005 (the IGN gamecube editor basically said it was a fact).

is that not the case? did they instead release all of them?

 

[element]

Fair enough, but they for example let the whole sports team go, seemingly because they finally got the EA XBL contract to go through.

The Sports team was let go because the quality standard was low, and most were transitioned to other jobs withing MGS. They just didn't make good games.

 

[Blimblim]

actually, i thought i read somewhere that they just have all their MGS teams (including the sports teams) instead working on Xbox 2 titles (?) which would make sense since the Xbox 2 is pretty heavily rumored to be coming out in 2005 (the IGN gamecube editor basically said it was a fact).

is that not the case? did they instead release all of them?

According to this they fired 76 people :
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2002010439_microsoftlayoffs20.html

 

[open_mouth_]

Fair enough, but they for example let the whole sports team go, seemingly because they finally got the EA XBL contract to go through. Or how some (most?) of the Xbox leads let the company under various circumstances.

I'm by no means saying that Sony doesn't have their share of unfair practices, and Nintendo was probably the worst offender in the past, btw.

For the sports division, they still kept the more lucrative teams that were producing Amped and Links and they've also kept close ties to the Top Spin team (independent, I believe). I also heard they didn't outright fire the rest of their sports division, but rather downsized and moved certain people to different parts of the Microsoft Game Studios. Isn't that what all/most companies do to divisions that aren't performing too well? I can't really blame them for that and I haven't heard any horror stories from those that were laid off. Microsoft is by no means an angel in business, either, but they're certainly not close to being the worst out there.

I commend you for adjusting your statement, however, and I salute you for throwing a dig at Nintendo while you were at it

 

[Lord Error]

Blackley and Fries quit, Allard and Bach are still there. So it's more than "some", less than "most". Since Moore is a late addition (an addition I really think most of us don't care about/are pissed about) that would make half the team I guess

Sounds about right! I could swear there was a third guy who also left, I think even before Blackley, but I forgot.

Microsoft is by no means an angel in business, either, but they're certainly not close to being the worst out there.

Hehe, after reading that EA-wife horror story, I think it's safe to say other employers can't compare to that

 

[element]

The three original Xbox guys were Bacus, Blackley, and Allard. Bacus and Blackley left shortly after launch, while Allard is still there kickin' ass and taking names.

 

[Lord Error]

Yeah, Bacus is the third guy that I forgot.

 

[Blimblim]

Ho yes Bachus. He quit before I was really interested in Xbox (had one, but mostly played Dreamcast at the time) so I totally forgot about him. Doesn't he work Infinium now ?

 

[ManaByte]

The three original Xbox guys were Bacus, Blackley, and Allard. Bacus and Blackley left shortly after launch, while Allard is still there kickin' ass and taking names.

He's so busy kicking ass, he forgot to take names

 

[DCharlie]

"... or maybe, they are waiting to release information and tools until the appropriate time. If devs are truly knowledgeable about the Xenon specs then they are clearly set in stone, which means the PS3 is going to KILL Xenon specwise."

so because the PS3 spec isn't finalized - it's obviously going to kill Xenon specs??

 

[Master Z]

Ah yes. Good ol' GAF. Isn't blind speculation fun?

 

[Gattsu25]

Nakamura's comments didn't end there. "There's no information from Sony. It's very different from Microsoft America," he stated, hinting that MS has been the more open of the two companies with its next generation plans.

Isn't the XBNext being released prior to the PS3? If so, wouldn't it be common sense that MS will release info sooner than Sony?

 

[Blimblim]

so because the PS3 spec isn't finalized - it's obviously going to kill Xenon specs??

Of course ! The fact that the specs are not officially announced only means that sony is waiting for Microsoft and will just announce something even more ludicrous
To the original poster : It could also mean (speculatively of course, I certainly do not know anything about this) that the specs are being downgraded so the console does not cost too much. Maybe you have some insider info ?
Gattsu : Did you read the topic ?

 

[PS2 KID]

Nakamura is like Atari CEO Bruno Brunnel claiming the PSP will launch at 500 dollars. :lol

He just wants to get some information out of Sony, but you and I and every else knows after Sony dropped the PSP price bomb, that they aren't giving out any secrets.

As for the PS3 being more powerful than the Xenon, most likely it will be, as well the Revolution. I can't really see Xenon being more powerful than those two since Microsoft wants to make a profit this time. Bleeding money is for the Sega's of this world (Sony too with the PSP).

 

[Gattsu25]

Gattsu : Did you read the topic ?

First post. All I wanted to do was say my thoughts. I don't feel like reading 100+ responses to a topic that isn't terribly interesting

 

[Blimblim]

First post. All I wanted to do was say my thoughts. I don't feel like reading 100+ responses to a topic that isn't terribly interesting

Indeed we were all desperately looking forward to your insightful comment about such an uninteresting subject.
Kidding aside, this has already been discussed in here, the topic has a surprising low trolling rate so it's not as bad as it could have been.

 

[Doom_Bringer]

awesome, I hope xbox 2 kicks PS3's ass.

 

[Nerevar]

I believe this news

 

[xexex]

hopefully the situation will change shortly regarding Sony's open-ness. PS3 should be unvieled fairly soon. 2 months give or take a week.

 

[Jonnyram]

Wow, that was a blast from the past.

 

[Duckhuntdog]

They have dual mac G5 with custom software/kernel and a R420 graphics card. I heard the first R500 prototypes have been delivered a few weeks ago for these dev kits.
It's not final hardware of course, but still a good alternative while the specs are being finalized.

It's not a R500. I don't know exactly where it fits in, in the ATI naming convention, but it does have a few Xenon specific functions.

Specs are pretty much set in stone at this point. Only things not decided on are harddrive out of the box and backwards compatability. But answers to those aren't far off.

So I suppose it all comes down to how cazy Nintendo and Sony go with that extra few months of R & D.

 

[Mama Smurf]

hopefully the situation will change shortly regarding Sony's open-ness. PS3 should be unvieled fairly soon. 2 months give or take a week.

That's what you bumbed it to say? THAT?

 

[Rhindle]

OK, this is annoying.

 

[DCharlie]

"That's what you bumbed it to say? THAT?"

bumbed it??? yeuuuwwwww

PS3 latest - does any one REALLY know? it seems even the people working at Sony are only just getting let in on things.

 

[fse]

My guess is PS3 launch in 2007 here in the US, late 2006 in Japan.

 

[Argyle]

"That's what you bumbed it to say? THAT?"

bumbed it??? yeuuuwwwww

PS3 latest - does any one REALLY know? it seems even the people working at Sony are only just getting let in on things.

I've heard things, it sounds like it's coming along, but I don't know all the details and I can't really share the details I've heard (Sorry to tease, I hate NDAmongers too...but I just wanted to chime in because I think that info is starting to trickle out...)

 

[Mama Smurf]

"That's what you bumbed it to say? THAT?"

bumbed it??? yeuuuwwwww

Maybe I meant it, eh? Maybe I did.

Spoiler

I didn't.

 

[DCharlie]

"I've heard things, it sounds like it's coming along, but I don't know all the details and I can't really share the details I've heard (Sorry to tease, I hate NDAmongers too...but I just wanted to chime in because I think that info is starting to trickle out...)"

oh, for sure - but the thing is the trickle is all that a lot of devs seem to be getting, including those at sony. It makes all the fanboy internet assertions all the more funny.

 

[Amir0x]

My guess is PS3 launch in 2007 here in the US, late 2006 in Japan.

2007 in the US? Jesus, that would be insane. That's giving Microsoft an absurd headstart.

 

[Pug]

If people want to know the recent speculations regarding the new (but at the moment vaporware) consoles, why not go to beyond3d. In the recent post many of them from developers who although under NDA make great points. AT the moment is seems that XB2 spec are not written in stone unlike some have said, clock speeds memory and even the number of cores is still undecided as is the GPU speed. Other speculation points to the PS3 only having one CELL PU rather than the 4 cores which was speculated, some of the posters reckon it will be 2 at final. Which will be more powerful, well it appears Xbox2 will be in certain area and PS3 in others, most agree what you will see on screen will not different between the 2.

 

[Amir0x]

If people want to know the recent speculations regarding the new (but at the moment vaporware) consoles, why not go to beyond3d. In the recent post many of them from developers who although under NDA make great points. AT the moment is seems that XB2 spec are not written in stone unlike some have said, clock speeds memory and even the number of cores is still undecided as is the GPU speed. Other speculation points to the PS3 only having one CELL PU rather than the 4 which was speculated, some of the posters reckon it will be 2 at final. Which will be more powerful, well it appears Xbox2 will be in certain area and PS3 in others, most agree what you will see on screen will not different between the 2.

Although beyond3d people are probably much more educated in all this stuff than I am, I have an extremely hard time believing that if the PS3 is going to come out a year after the Xbox2 it will be anything other than more powerful in nearly every way.

But we'll see.

 

[Pug]

Well thats because most people are speculating that Xbox will be Nov 2005 US/ March 2006 Europe. PS3 March 2006, Japan, Xmas rest of the world. PS3 does not have 1 years worth of extra development time it has at best 6 months and probably less than that. If it launches in Xmas 2006 in Japan and March 2007 Worldwide yes you would expect it to be more poerful, although saying that thats hell of a gap for MS to take advantage of!

 

[Blimblim]

Well thats because most people are speculating that Xbox will be Nov 2005 US/ March 2006 Europe.

EA has the Godfather Xbox 2 SKU in 2005 for Europe. This could be a mistake of course, but I sure would love to see Xbox 2 being released in 2005 in Europe and Japan too. Waiting for 2006 to release it outside NA would be a very bad PR move for MS, as they would not have any big exclusive title for the big christmas season in these territories.
Could MS pull an international console launch in a month time ? Doubtful, but one can hope.

 

[xexex]

My guess is PS3 launch in 2007 here in the US, late 2006 in Japan.

uh no. PS3 has always been planned for 2006. Sony will not give MS a 2 year head start in NA/Europe.

 

[aaaaa0]

My take on it is Sony has two options:

PLAN A:

Release PS3 in 2007. No question PS3 will be more powerful than xbox 2 in this case -- with the year of extra time Sony has, they would have to be stupid not to be. But xbox 2 will have an insane headstart in this scenario, and with Microsoft pouring it on with the developer support, Sony runs the risk of joining this generation too late.

PLAN B:

Accelerate PS3 development, and cut features and performance so they can ship in Japan Q1 2006, max 6 months after xbox 2. In this scenario, it's unlikely that PS3 will be significantly more powerful than the xbox 2 in the real world, no matter how Sony PR spins the numbers.

Everything I've heard indicates Sony has chosen Plan B at this time because they do not want to give Microsoft too large of a head start -- but things can change.

We'll just have to see what happens.

 

[DCharlie]

The big issue is how does MS and Sony make games that are demonstratably better than what is available on the other machine?

I'm gonna hazard that the games on both machines will look pretty much identical - and it'll come down to inane fanboy arguements about which one has better sparks etc etc...

Sure , both will be slightly better at doing some things than the other, but it's gonna be marginal to the point of irrelevancy.

Plus - the PS2 being less powerful than the Xbox has meant absolutely NOTHING in the market. So , surprise surprise - it'll come down to content and price.

People expect Sony to win that battle, now it just remains to see how serious MS are and how much they've learned this gen to see how it pans out.

Nintendo - FUCK KNOWS! Might work, might not.... whatever it is.

 

[Raven.]

Sure , both will be slightly better at doing some things than the other, but it's gonna be marginal to the point of irrelevancy.

I think it all depends on how far each are willing to go or can go, but as we've seen in the portable market significant visual disparity can occur between products released not that far from each other.

 

[Pug]

Divus, the portable example really has no bearing on whats happening on the console front. XB2 is going with a multi core cpu with a next gen ATI GPU. Sony is going with a CELL PU and a next gen Nvidia GPU. The differences are not great. What DarienA said is the reality of it, and its the best post in this tread.

 

[ThirdEye]

My take on it is Sony has two options:

PLAN A:

Release PS3 in 2007. No question PS3 will be more powerful than xbox 2 in this case -- with the year of extra time Sony has, they would have to be stupid not to be. But xbox 2 will have an insane headstart in this scenario, and with Microsoft pouring it on with the developer support, Sony runs the risk of joining this generation too late.

PLAN B:

Accelerate PS3 development, and cut features and performance so they can ship in Japan Q1 2006, max 6 months after xbox 2. In this scenario, it's unlikely that PS3 will be significantly more powerful than the xbox 2 in the real world, no matter how Sony PR spins the numbers.

Everything I've heard indicates Sony has chosen Plan B at this time because they do not want to give Microsoft too large of a head start -- but things can change.

We'll just have to see what happens.

Why do Sony have to cut features to release it in Japan Q1 2006? They always stressed that they are on the roadmap of 5-year consoles life. Regardless of other companies, it has its own plan and goes along with it.

 

[Izzy]

Q1 2006 launch for PS3 is very doubtful - just for the reference, Nvidia plans to finish the GPU design by the end of the year; in comparison, Xenon's R500 taped out late last year.

Right now, everything points to mid-late 2006 launch for PS3.

 

[Pug]

Izzy if you go on the Beyond3d forums there a new interview with Nvidia, basically they are saying that the new GPU will be rolled out in the not to distant future. It will go into manufacture this year, ready in time for a March 2006 launch I reckon.

 

[Izzy]

Izzy if you go on the Beyond3d forums there a new interview with Nvidia, basically they are saying that the new GPU will be rolled out in the not to distant future. It will go into manufacture this year, ready in time for a March 2006 launch I reckon.

Here's the quote

And we’ve been working with them to produce a customized version that is customized specifically to connect that to the cell processor, so that they could work together. And the timing and everything is up to them to disclose, although we will have some products a little bit later this year, so this is not that far in the future on the development side.

 

[Raven.]

Divus, the portable example really has no bearing on whats happening on the console front. XB2 is going with a multi core cpu with a next gen ATI GPU. Sony is going with a CELL PU and a next gen Nvidia GPU. The differences are not great. What DarienA said is the reality of it, and its the best post in this tread.

I still say it depends. For example if the Broadband Engine is not scaled down, the ps3 gpu could be a VSless pure PS design(A GF modified to have substantially more PS power thanks to better process and freed space), both with a quick transition to 45nm in mind. I gave that(previous) example to show what could happen when two companies have different budgets in mind, one with a profit in mind, willing to cut costs, and one with a willingness to take necessary losses at launch if need be. We're dealing with the same thing here, though, I don't expect such drastic differences, all I'm saying is there could be differences.

ed