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[jfkgoblue]

I always thought the constitution was an untouchable holy grail for everything.

Amendments are covered in the constitution.

Anyways, this sounds good on paper, but it turns out politicians handle lobbyists better.

 

[Brakke]

Cruz, being the smart one, doesn't want this. And he knows it won't pass. But R constituents are easier to rile up with the lie that government is fundamentally broken. This isn't a proposed amendment as much as it's a free misinformation campaign.

 

[BlastProcessing]

I figured that if I'm a Democrat or a Republican in Congress why would I give any third party a platform to challenge my job? It seems to me that it uncapped terms are like lobbying in that it leaves room for self interest and preservation to affect governing. I don't think it guarantees additional parties but maybe it removes one of the many roadblocks.

Also letting the incumbents go could be an opportunity for more independents to win seats. At least they would be facing less of steep hill to climb.

But anyways I've read the thread and overall see the dangers of term limits, at least in the form Cruz is proposing.

The problem is that term limits gennerally create a more hyper partisan environment. Politicians become interchangeable cogs that owe everything to their parties. Parties become super powerful because they are the only enduring institutions.

Ideally we need legislators who have long relationships. That used to be how across the aisle deals were made. The other major tool we used to compromise, earmarks, was also removed by people who thought it sounded good without thinking it through. We need to bring earmarks back as well but that is another issue altogether.

The core problem isn't term limits or earmarks or lobbies, it's the fact that nobody engages in the single most important part of our democracy, Legislative primaries. Even if we got rid of gerrymandering, there would still be safe conservative and safe liberal districts and states. In those places, the only way you can remove a shitty rep is through the primary and nobody pays any attention to those. Once they get through that they are 99% golden.

We need to hold politicians accountable and that comes from primaries. Term limits aren't going to help this.

Put it this way, right now people dislike Congress because it's full of known quantities that we dislike. Instead of holding them accountable in the way that we should, people want to just enact term limits so that we can get a constant turnover of unknown quantities. If we do that without fixing the underlying issue then all we have accomplished is transitioning from something that is bad to something that is bad, unstable and unpredictable.

That's not a win. That's just doing something to make yourself feel better. It's Constitutional masturbation.

 

[Dangansona]

The problem is that term limits gennerally create a more hyper partisan environment. Politicians become interchangeable cogs that owe everything to their parties. Parties become super powerful because they are the only enduring institutions.

Ideally we need legislators who have long relationships. That used to be how across the aisle deals were made. The other major tool we used to compromise, earmarks, was also removed by people who thought it sounded good without thinking it through. We need to bring earmarks back as well but that is another issue altogether.

The core problem isn't term limits or earmarks or lobbies, it's the fact that nobody engages in the single most important part of our democracy, Legislative primaries. Even if we got rid of gerrymandering, there would still be safe conservative and safe liberal districts and states. In those places, the only way you can remove a shitty rep is through the primary and nobody pays any attention to those. Once they get through that they are 99% golden.

We need to hold politicians accountable and that comes from primaries. Term limits aren't going to help this.

Put it this way, right now people dislike Congress because it's full of known quantities that we dislike. Instead of holding them accountable in the way that we should, people want to just enact term limits so that we can get a constant turnover of unknown quantities. If we do that without fixing the underlying issue then all we have accomplished is transitioning from something that is bad to something that is bad, unstable and unpredictable.

That's not a win. That's just doing something to make yourself feel better. It's Constitutional masturbation.

I agree that's how the system should work but I guess my problem is I don't have enough faith in people to do any of that :/

 

[elrechazado]

How long do you think it takes for a lawyer to be an expert in a specific field of law, let alone be skilled enough to be a judge? People who practice and interpret the laws that are created.

Now for people that write the laws and propose reforms due to understandings of where there are issues with the law?

People who write laws? I thought you were talking about senators until you said that. Clearly you're talking about staffers and aids and industry lobbyists and activists.

 

[BlastProcessing]

I agree that's how the system should work but I guess my problem is I don't have enough faith in people to do any of that :/

You're hitting on the core problem we face. People need to simultaneously recognize that things are fucked and reassert their faith in the system. People walking away in disgust and disengaging from democracy only makes things worse.

It's a catch 22 that was intentionally fostered by the republicans in the 90's. I would recommend people read this:

which does an excellent job of explaining how things deteriorated to this point.

 

[numble]

People who write laws? I thought you were talking about senators until you said that. Clearly you're talking about staffers and aids and industry lobbyists and activists.

And Supreme Court opinions are technically written by clerks just out of law school, but the responsibility for what is written in law belongs to the formal authors of that legislation.

 

[Dangansona]

You're hitting on the core problem we face. People need to simultaneously recognize that things are fucked and reassert their faith in the system. People walking away in disgust and disengaging from democracy only makes things worse.

It's a catch 22 that was intentionally fostered by the republicans in the 90's. I would recommend people read this:

which does an excellent job of explaining how things deteriorated to this point.

Will do!