MrAngryFace
Banned
Just seems to go from impossibly dumb easy to annoyingly difficulty within the same setting. Anyone else notice this?
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Tekken 5's AI inconsistant?
- Thread starter MrAngryFace
- Start date
Yes.
Also in Arcade mode, it seems anything in the dan or below category is generally fodder, with only the 'named rank' players giving a decent fight.
Sucks that slaughtering a 'Legend' status player with my 8th kyu only gives like 500 extra gold over a similar rank...I mean cmon! I have a $300,000 eyepatch to buy!
Also in Arcade mode, it seems anything in the dan or below category is generally fodder, with only the 'named rank' players giving a decent fight.
Sucks that slaughtering a 'Legend' status player with my 8th kyu only gives like 500 extra gold over a similar rank...I mean cmon! I have a $300,000 eyepatch to buy!
MrAngryFace
Banned
well its like they can read what im gonna do, and im playing story mode on easy to get money, and then feng comes out of nowhere and fights better than Expert Fengs I fought in arcade on medium, so its like, what?
I've exhausted story mode with everyone for the freebie 100-grand prizes. I haven't replayed with any character yet to see if that still works though.
Oh and I've noticed the AI is very susceptible to sidestep attacks. Seems to work very well as a cheap tactic to fall back on in those instances.
Oh and I've noticed the AI is very susceptible to sidestep attacks. Seems to work very well as a cheap tactic to fall back on in those instances.
If you want to cheeze out the computer for money.
Use Kazuya or Devil Jin and just keep repeating his ^ O, O, O, O. That should get you to at least round 5 without doing a single other move. It's nice cause I just chat on the internet while doing.
Also easy mode jinpachi's AI has a problem with just constantly doing high priority low kicks. Or at least some characters' high priority low kicks.
The true solution is to stop playing boring ass single player and play against friends.
Use Kazuya or Devil Jin and just keep repeating his ^ O, O, O, O. That should get you to at least round 5 without doing a single other move. It's nice cause I just chat on the internet while doing.
Also easy mode jinpachi's AI has a problem with just constantly doing high priority low kicks. Or at least some characters' high priority low kicks.
The true solution is to stop playing boring ass single player and play against friends.
MrAngryFace
Banned
finally got to jin and beat him with julia, fucking pain in the ass that was.
Now her costume is complete. Gun + holster, Sunglasses, Brown jacket, brown boots.
Now her costume is complete. Gun + holster, Sunglasses, Brown jacket, brown boots.
Here are every change I've made so far
Costumes - Jin, Asuka, Eddy Gordo, Xiayou, Raven
Devil Jin - No Horns for both versions
Asuka - Black/White colour scheme for her overalls outfit.
Kazuya - Black colour scheme for his suit costume.
Jin - Angel Wings and Black/Red scheme for his training outfit costume.
I think that's it.
I'm just going for the rest of the costumes then I'm done. Who do I have left? Yoshi?
Costumes - Jin, Asuka, Eddy Gordo, Xiayou, Raven
Devil Jin - No Horns for both versions
Asuka - Black/White colour scheme for her overalls outfit.
Kazuya - Black colour scheme for his suit costume.
Jin - Angel Wings and Black/Red scheme for his training outfit costume.
I think that's it.
I'm just going for the rest of the costumes then I'm done. Who do I have left? Yoshi?
MrAngryFace
Banned
Julia's main costume is FUCKING UGLY LOOKING. Her second costume doesnt have that 'im a nature expert' look to it till you introduce some brown to the equation. The gun just looks cool, but the cowboy hat option is fucking dumb, so I went with sunglasses.
I might buy the rope but the gun looks neat.
I might buy the rope but the gun looks neat.
MrAngryFace
Banned
I like a challenge, I rarely play top tier, I rarely play popular characters. Ill take the time to learn what CAN make them good. Ill never be in tournament play. I find the process above more amusing than being cool from the get go with top tier characters like Asuka, who while cool, is unsatisfying for me.
I usually just fight against Drinky Crow in our weekly fighting game meets
I usually just fight against Drinky Crow in our weekly fighting game meets
I guess so.
I just think the tier of the characters changes the level of play in my opinion.
A Kuma vs Roger fight for example will never be as exciting as a Jin vs Bryan Fury fight. Then there's the degrees between these two extremes. At least for me and the friend I regularly play Tekken with.
I just think the tier of the characters changes the level of play in my opinion.
A Kuma vs Roger fight for example will never be as exciting as a Jin vs Bryan Fury fight. Then there's the degrees between these two extremes. At least for me and the friend I regularly play Tekken with.
MrAngryFace
Banned
Lets just say its more of a challenge for me to find ways to win against top tier than it is to be a top tier fighting a top tier because ultimately it comes down to my feeling that top tier is relatively cheap and lacks the same level of skill.
Probably not true but I get that feeling if I use popular or top tier characters.
Probably not true but I get that feeling if I use popular or top tier characters.
I disagree. Because one of the main gameplay mechanics of Tekken is the mind games you can play. The top tier characters give you more tools to play those mind games.
So when you get to that point where both of you have all the tools at your disposal, it really becomes exciting the level of mind games you can play. The skill isn't in executing the moves, combos and juggles, it's using that execution to play a strong mind game.
It's quite different from many other fighting games in that aspect imo.
EDIT - I'm very redundant in my posts sometimes, but you get the point
So when you get to that point where both of you have all the tools at your disposal, it really becomes exciting the level of mind games you can play. The skill isn't in executing the moves, combos and juggles, it's using that execution to play a strong mind game.
It's quite different from many other fighting games in that aspect imo.
EDIT - I'm very redundant in my posts sometimes, but you get the point
MrAngryFace
Banned
Its not so much that they have more tools at their disposal in tekken, but rather their moves are faster, track more often n such. Julia has just as many moves, they just arent as cheesy. Tekken IS a cheese fest. A game of the fastest punch and of priorities. Its not my idea of the best time but its fun in its own way.
Mind games? I play more of them in VF4 where individuals moves matter more and dial-a-combos arent king. Every fighting game has mind games, Tekken isnt doing anything that different, its just flashy new and fast and loud.
Dont get me wrong, the game is worth every penny, its just not 'it' for me.
VF4 Evo is still the king of 3D fighting games.
Mind games? I play more of them in VF4 where individuals moves matter more and dial-a-combos arent king. Every fighting game has mind games, Tekken isnt doing anything that different, its just flashy new and fast and loud.
Dont get me wrong, the game is worth every penny, its just not 'it' for me.
VF4 Evo is still the king of 3D fighting games.
I disagree. You're saying the "poke" game aspect of Tekken is cheeze?
That's just one of the ways to play some of the characters.
I mean you try the poke game against Paul (or Steve) when he's swaying back and forth and making you pay with pheonix smashers for reckless poking, you'll have to change up your game.
That's just one of the ways to play some of the characters.
I mean you try the poke game against Paul (or Steve) when he's swaying back and forth and making you pay with pheonix smashers for reckless poking, you'll have to change up your game.
MrAngryFace
Banned
No im saying Tekken isn't at the strategic level of VF4 Evo, which I prefer. Every fighting game has its quirks, most of the 'mind games' are created by players, not the game itself.
A player will ultimately use what works to win. Using the same moves every match wont let you win in Tekken 5, the game isnt that shallow, but at its base level it does come down to aggression and priority.
Same goes for GGXX Reload, 2D but the same thing. Although there are more systems in place in GGXX that actually enforce these fundamentals.
VF4 Evo actually has more of a defensive game to it. All in all Evo is a more well rounded fighter. This sacrifices a lot of the faster pow wiz bang flash that Tekken 5 flaunts and succeeds in selling to me, but thats not what real fights are like anyway.
A player will ultimately use what works to win. Using the same moves every match wont let you win in Tekken 5, the game isnt that shallow, but at its base level it does come down to aggression and priority.
Same goes for GGXX Reload, 2D but the same thing. Although there are more systems in place in GGXX that actually enforce these fundamentals.
VF4 Evo actually has more of a defensive game to it. All in all Evo is a more well rounded fighter. This sacrifices a lot of the faster pow wiz bang flash that Tekken 5 flaunts and succeeds in selling to me, but thats not what real fights are like anyway.
Virtua Fighter is slowed down a bit more and a bit more calculated.
Doesn't mean you can't play a strong defensive game in Tekken, it just rewards you for also playing a very offensive game.
I'm not a good judge for Tekken vs Virtua Fighter though since I'm obviousely a huge fan of Tekken and haven't given Virtua Fighter much time.
I still think you're under-rating Tekken's value as a technical fighter.
Doesn't mean you can't play a strong defensive game in Tekken, it just rewards you for also playing a very offensive game.
I'm not a good judge for Tekken vs Virtua Fighter though since I'm obviousely a huge fan of Tekken and haven't given Virtua Fighter much time.
I still think you're under-rating Tekken's value as a technical fighter.
MrAngryFace
Banned
Almost all fighters are technical on some level, its just that Tekken is committed to being technical in a particular direction, one that im not too comfortable with if thats all there is to offer.
I stopped playing Tekken after the third installment because my gaming tastes changed and I needed something more. Now that I have something more (vf4 evo) I can return to Tekken at least as a side gig if you get what im saying.
I stopped playing Tekken after the third installment because my gaming tastes changed and I needed something more. Now that I have something more (vf4 evo) I can return to Tekken at least as a side gig if you get what im saying.
Well after 3 the series went downhill until 5 (which tightened everything up on a technical level).
I still think Tekken 5 is on the same level as Virtua Fighter 4 on a technical level, just set to a different playstyle. (which you may not prefer, just like I don't prefer VF4's playstyle) So on that issue, we'll have to agree to disagree.
I still think Tekken 5 is on the same level as Virtua Fighter 4 on a technical level, just set to a different playstyle. (which you may not prefer, just like I don't prefer VF4's playstyle) So on that issue, we'll have to agree to disagree.
MrAngryFace
Banned
Woah, on the same level? We'll REALLY have to disagree. No 3D fighter is on the same technical level as Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution or Final Tuned.
I haven't noticed the AI being inconsistent, but I have noticed it's easier than it used to be in other Tekkens on Ultra Hard and it was never that hard to begin with. Pretty lame.
If all the Japanese version is getting is ghosts then I'm glad the US got it early because that's a really crappy extra. The idea of fighting real players sounds cool but doesn't work out too well in reality. In the arcade version the ghosts are weak.
People put too much stock into tiers. They shouldn't even come into play unless you're playing at a fairly high level. Besides, T5 has decent balance. It's pretty much Nina and Steve on top, Lei and Kuma on bottom and then nobody agreeing on how everyone in the middle stacks up.
As far as VF vs. Tekken goes, I think unless you play both games extensively and follow their scenes any talk of which is deeper doesn't carry much weight. Actually that goes for any fighting game.
If all the Japanese version is getting is ghosts then I'm glad the US got it early because that's a really crappy extra. The idea of fighting real players sounds cool but doesn't work out too well in reality. In the arcade version the ghosts are weak.
People put too much stock into tiers. They shouldn't even come into play unless you're playing at a fairly high level. Besides, T5 has decent balance. It's pretty much Nina and Steve on top, Lei and Kuma on bottom and then nobody agreeing on how everyone in the middle stacks up.
As far as VF vs. Tekken goes, I think unless you play both games extensively and follow their scenes any talk of which is deeper doesn't carry much weight. Actually that goes for any fighting game.
Kabuki Waq
Member
the ghosts worked really well for VF4 evo.
Wait lei is bottom tier? what does the mean? he is the weakest? Damn he is my fav character.
As for which game is better i prefer tekken alot more but between elite fighters everyone who plays both games extensively.... they usually prefer agree that VF series has more depth and is more technical. REally tho Tekken as great as it is, is much more noob friendly than VF.
Wait lei is bottom tier? what does the mean? he is the weakest? Damn he is my fav character.
As for which game is better i prefer tekken alot more but between elite fighters everyone who plays both games extensively.... they usually prefer agree that VF series has more depth and is more technical. REally tho Tekken as great as it is, is much more noob friendly than VF.
Yes, Lei is generally considered to be one of the weakest characters in the game. It doesn't mean you shouldn't play as him or even be all that concerned though. Tiers are not meant to be taken as absolute truth. The idea is that if you take a top player using Steve and a top player using Lei and both play perfectly the Steve player would have a much easier time. It doesn't mean Lei can't win, it's just less likely. Also, in reality no two players have the exact same skill level and people always make mistakes so you have to take that into account. You may find you do your best as Lei. Too many people get stuck into thinking tiers are the most important thing in playing a fighting game.
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
It's my personal opinion that Lei is mid-low tier in this one. His razor rush does more damage now (but it's still less powerful than in TTT - where it did an insane 50% damage on counter hit) and his new launchers are nice. He was definitely bottom tier in T4. It really depends on the person playing him. Setups are more important for him now than they were in Tekken 3/Tag. If you've got the setups you can go a decent ways with him.
As for the difficulty... I'm playing it on Ultra Hard and everything seems easy for me except for, of all characters, Kuma/Panda and Roger Jr. The AI for those two is exceptionally good. I've seen it do things I would never even think about doing. However, if I play as Nina I can lock them all down with df+1, 2 and it's easy again.
The AI for Lee is also pretty good.
People play as Julia because she has a very safe/reliable attack (the party crasher elbow), is great at interrupting strings, has a wide variety of mix-ups, and has very damaging combos. Julia is second tier but she is also one of the few characters in the game that can give Nina a hard time. Her 1,2(counter hit),1 and 1,1,1 (counter hit) can be squeezed in between Nina's pokes and are hugely rewarding. Also, if you are good at low-parrying you can low parry Nina's d+3 or d+4 and then do df+2,1 and do even more damage that way.
As for the difficulty... I'm playing it on Ultra Hard and everything seems easy for me except for, of all characters, Kuma/Panda and Roger Jr. The AI for those two is exceptionally good. I've seen it do things I would never even think about doing. However, if I play as Nina I can lock them all down with df+1, 2 and it's easy again.
The AI for Lee is also pretty good.
Tabris said:
People play as Julia because she has a very safe/reliable attack (the party crasher elbow), is great at interrupting strings, has a wide variety of mix-ups, and has very damaging combos. Julia is second tier but she is also one of the few characters in the game that can give Nina a hard time. Her 1,2(counter hit),1 and 1,1,1 (counter hit) can be squeezed in between Nina's pokes and are hugely rewarding. Also, if you are good at low-parrying you can low parry Nina's d+3 or d+4 and then do df+2,1 and do even more damage that way.
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
Anyanka said:
Heh, I hated the knees. I actually didn't mind the razor rush much because I played Lei in tag from time to time and it was nice to get my free 50% whenever someone on the opposing team was tagged in and started attacking immediately. Julia and Jin were my mains from tag though. Oh how I wish Julia still had her wonder juggle. I liked Michelle in T2 and I played Julia in T3. I remember that on the first day tag came out I plicked Julia and found the wonder juggle. It was then that my true love affair with Julia began. From that point on I always picked Julia as one of my characters in tag.
MrAngryFace said:
If you're playing the one person, I doubt it's at a level where the top tiers matter, and who everyone else is using wouldn't come into play either. Who's left to impress? GA? Your principles?
Not flaming, just asking what the overall rationale is. The global Tekken community doesn't really figure into the equation.
MrAngryFace
Banned
Didnt say it was rational, its just the way it is 