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Tekken |OT3|
- Thread starter Dereck
- Start date
GrayFoxPL
Member
I honestly missed the part where Harada apologizes. Point me to it.
You don't worry about them making money. They were so busy milking arcade players they purposely stalled any development home versions. Eventually forced to do it because "complaining fans" asked and relentlessly pushed for it at every opportunity for years. Murray would always get those questions on every stream. Over and over. You may not give a shit, but most of us here waited for far too long. Actually waited for years, not jumped in when T7 home was just announced.
Without those annoying "complaining fans" they would done nothing for us until arcade cash cow died. Nobody knows how long would that take.
Yeah I don't understand why anyone would "blind buy" dlc. Maybe it's a gambler's thing when you love the thrill of risk and unknown. If I'd buy this and characters ended up being Ogre and Dr.B I'd throw that shit out the window. Lol.
I will pay if they'll do Baek dlc, I won't have a choice. It's still is disgusting because I feel all this is dictated by young generation brainwashed to accept that they pay for 50% of the full game upfront and the other 50% in dlc form. How do you explain to some teenage kid that that or this character was always free to pick and play? That you didn't have to pay more to play your favorite characters. It's an unknown reality to them. Modern gaming thought them they should just pay extra for everything, even for something as ridiculous as colors for BlazBlue sprites.
Well, if Eliza is any indication the dlc could end up totally worthless for me, so maybe there's no need for such divagation. Sorry.
I only played Demon's Souls and Bloodborne. Those games feel different to Nioh. The game structure is the same but the combat is much faster, you constantly need to remind yourself to ki pulse(best the perfect version) and change stances. So much more focus and memorizing is needed. Almost like a fighting game. I'm getting Nioh for sure, but playing Souls games didn't help me with Nioh alphas and betas, lol.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
I don't get this. They didn't "stall" console development. It probably took a considerable amount of time to create the story mode cinematics and such to match the integrity of the graphical capabilities and limits of the engine and consoles on top of the overall porting, cg endings, promotions, marketing planning etc.
I see it as Namco gave them a tight budget. They created vanilla 7 and stuck it out there to earn some money to help support further development where they got better with Unreal 4 and fine-tuned other aspects and eventually released FR which boosted user interest further. And in that time, they probably had a team creating the console versions.
Yes, they needed arcade money to help. No, I doubt they held back a console release because of arcade milking. The backlash it caused wouldn't be worth it if it were true. They're paying for it as it is.
LeonSKennedy90
Banned
"I want more content for my most anticipated game so interest can be sustained over time and support for the game lasts longer than TTT2!"
"ok we're making it"
"also I dont wanna pay for any of it"
"hmm....no"
"GREEDY DEVS"
"ok we're making it"
"also I dont wanna pay for any of it"
"hmm....no"
"GREEDY DEVS"
What's most interesting about the DLC backlash is people arguing they shouldn't pay for old characters because they're just "copying and pasting assets." I've never seen any fan of a different fighting game complain about that (when people complained about the SFxT DLC, they whined about it being on disc, not that 5 of the 12 characters were ripped from SF4).
Guess Tekken fans had it good for a long time.
Guess Tekken fans had it good for a long time.
Can we assume Tekken 7 is gonna have some kind of checkerboard 4K and/or upgrades on the PS4 Pro? I have a gaming laptop with a 980M GeForce card and I'm torn on which version I'm gonna get. Probably PS4 for the player base and hopeful Pro optimization but I'm still on the fence.
SquirrelSoup
Member
Roster and DLC-wise, definitely. TTT2 had a huge cast and a whole bunch of characters as -free- DLC. Better than any other game i think. Other stuff? Perhaps not so good.
But i think Namco set themselves up for these kinds of reactions. The narrative was always 'Hey, wait two years while Asia can play it but afterward you get THE BEST TEKKEN EVER.' Now at the end of those two years you tell people to, sorry, wait some more months and the SAME DAY you say 'Btw, we're working on more stuff but you gotta buy it separate, unlike in earlier games.'?
I can understand why people are pissed, can't you? (Personally i'm okay with the DLC btw. )
I remember TONS of people moaning about the characters just being straight rips from SF4 though. Greedy Capcpom etc. Guess you missed all that.
I dont think Souls game will help you much. I played through all the Souls games except DSIII (too burned out on it), and when I first played the Alpha I approached the combat like a Souls game and hated it, I nearly deleted the demo after like 20 minutes. But I gave it another shot a couple of hours later and it suddenly clicked.
Like GrayFox said the combat is different, it has incredible depth. You obviously need to focus on spacing and stamina(KI) management but even the stamina management has more depth to it thanks to mechanics such as KI Pulse, Flux and the Yokai fog. Switching stances is also important, every stance has a different playstyle:
Low stance (evasive)
- Fastest dash
- Fastest attack speed
- Consumes the least amount of KI when attacking/dodging
- Short attack range
- Lowest damage
Medium stance (defensive)
- Normal dash
- Normal attack speed
- Consumes the least amount of KI when blocking
- Slowly replenishes KI when blocking (other stances don't replenish KI when blocking)
- Access to skills such as parries and counters
High stance (offensive)
- Slow dash/roll
- Slowest attack speed
- Consumes the most amount of KI when attacking/rolling
- Long range attacks
- Highest damage (also the most damage to an opponents KI)
All stances have different strings, abilities and customizable finishers.
If you want to learn more about the combat like Ki Pulse and stance switching here is a good and short video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fp04chA_DFE&t
And this is what high level Nioh looks like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS0vGOCTwyg&t
https://twitter.com/Harada_TEKKEN/status/823541441762762752
https://twitter.com/Harada_TEKKEN/status/823541213882028032
GrayFoxPL
Member
Dude I don't blame the actual dev team. I blame everyone who's making decisions and giving orders. Execs, Namco, Chief producer. Tekken Project dudes didn't decide shit about any of this.
Pretty sure the pure cg movies and shit is handled by different team, wouldn't be surprised if it's outsourced.
Do you really think there's not a shred of truth in that it's about the money and fear that considerable part of gamers would just play the game at home more instead of pumping cash to arcades? Our own Lupinko spent thousands of dollars on T7. We're not talking about a friends at Namco who care about us but a corporation. They didn't expect that cash flow but when they smelled the money you can bet they wouldn't ever let go the arcade players wallets. Home port would ruin everything. Dude, they increased the price of a rematch from 2 to 4 credits. Where do you think this idea emerged from? "Dumbasses pay 2 so they will pay 4. Easy money." It's in your face like that.
If they allowed for console development to begin 6 months earlier, we'd be playing this thing since Xmass. You really think there isn't a tight suit guy(s) at Namco HQ who at that time said something along the lines of: "Not yet, money's flowing, keep it in arcades as long as possible." ? And on a question if fans patience wouldn't eventually run out, he just answered:
I believe that the moment they realized they are pushing ppl patience to the limit is when the home development started moving on with actual pace. No shit was given before that.
But hey agree to disagree, right?
Twitter "sorry", eh? I was thinking about something else.
But sorry that I doubted.
Cosmic Forge
Member
.
SquirrelSoup
Member
I think the easiest way to get started is just with spacing out the enemies, let them do their moves and learn their moveset or patterns before going in. The biggest problem with the game is that it does a poor job of explaining all the combat mechanics. There will be a tutorial in the final game, hopefully it's a bit more in-depth than the one we got in the last two demo's.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
I can see where you're coming from and I've had this stance with past games.Dude I don't blame the actual dev team. I blame everyone who's making decisions and giving orders. Execs, Namco, Chief producer. Tekken Project dudes didn't decide shit about any of this.
Pretty sure the pure cg movies and shit is handled by different team, wouldn't be surprised if it's outsourced.
Do you really think there's not a shred of truth in that it's about the money and fear that considerable part of gamers would just play the game at home more instead of pumping cash to arcades? Our own Lupinko spent thousands of dollars on T7. We're not talking about a friends at Namco who care about us but a corporation. They didn't expect that cash flow but when they smelled the money you can bet they wouldn't ever let go the arcade players wallets. Home port would ruin everything. Dude, they increased the price of a rematch from 2 to 4 credits. Where do you think this idea emerged from? "Dumbasses pay 2 so they will pay 4. Easy money." It's in your face like that.
If they allowed for console development to begin 6 months earlier, we'd be playing this thing since Xmass. You really think there isn't a tight suit guy(s) at Namco HQ who at that time said something along the lines of: "Not yet, money's flowing, keep it in arcades as long as possible." ? And on a question if fans patience wouldn't eventually run out, he just answered:
I believe that the moment they realized they are pushing ppl patience to the limit is when the home development started moving on with actual pace. No shit was given before that.
But hey agree to disagree, right?
Twitter "sorry", eh? I was thinking about something else.
But sorry that I doubted.
But I'm sure as shit glad it stayed in arcades if it meant getting FR and not vanilla.
I've shown impatience in the past, but I've since checked myself out of here and only peeked in here and there to see what was up. I never paid for the beta/arcade, hardly gave clicks to their streams and couldn't care less about their contests/tournaments. That's on you guys for sucking that teet, tbh.
Emperor Bohe
Member
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
Should photoshop the statue in his eyes as what's there looks similar.
Looks awful
Emperor Bohe
Member
what? the condition of my manual? it's like 20 years old /s
Lemme shoot my impressions of everything.
1.) I'm completely fine with the date. The Switch/Zelda comes out in March, Horizon, Mass Effect and other stuff is going on until this game releases so when this drops I'll be open. No issues there. Given Namco said they're making a full complete game, I'm a-ok with whatever they can do to reach that point. Give me Arcade Mode, Ghost Battle, the best Story Mode ever just whatever they can do I'm cool with it.
2.) No issues with the DLC practices. Given Harada and team had to get a separate budget from the heads of Namco for it to even happen it's cool with me. That's the only way the DLC characters would be in the game otherwise. Paying for them is ok too given I can't imagine how much time, effort and research goes into it. The team's been working hard on everything thus far judging from what I've seen of their twitter comments. Given that? I'm cool with it. I don't care that Lei, Anna, Julia and etc are DLC characters much. Namco's actually putting characters people want as DLC rather than "brand new fighters in the universe" so that's a plus.
3.) The fact the NA CE doesn't come with a Season Pass is ridiculous to me. Sure, if the prices are different for the NA and EU CE it's understandable but if ours in NA is 150, judging from what I see the EU CE price is that factors to about what 162 bucks, averaging it out it's like a what 13 dollar different in their favor. I wish it wasn't this way. We need the Deluxe in the CE not the Day One. Just isn't right tbh.
Whatever, I'm off that.
4.) Tekken Lore-wise, Heihachi ain't surviving this one. No. Way. At. All. He's gonna die, he's just gotta die at the end of this. His original VA died years ago, he's crying a lot in these preview videos, he's old, just kill em lol. T8 will have a timeskip and there's going to be a new relative like idk Jin's son or Lars's son or whatever just someone who's related who will have Heihachi's old fighting style. Who knows.
Overall I'm hyped.
One last thing tho.
5.) Anyone upset about the DLC practices, I don't get them and they seem whiny and spoiled. These characters weren't scheduled for the game in the first place, they weren't going to be in the game at all, Harada and team had to get a new budget for them to even be included as DLC. Basically, guys would rather have the game come out later and have these characters included (which the release date had people were whining about more than "my character wasn't in the game") or have these characters not be in T7 at all and we might not even see them until T8 or hell ever again since some are old. The fact they had to ask for a completely separate budget to even include some people is ok with me because it's an entirely different thing from the base game. There's research, development, testing and such that goes into brand new characters being included let alone for console T7. It's not like TTT2 in this game. Besides that, if I recall, more fans said they were ok with paid DLC, they experimented with TR, it makes perfect sense. I also recall something about TTT2 not being well with DLC to the heads hence why TR even came into play.
Basically, would people rather wait even longer for the game to come out for the characters or just not have them? Besides that, people talk about Bamco's business practices and strategies all the time and this is a smart business move. If anyone disagree that's less about what's smart for Bamco, the Tekken Team and the series as a whole compared to their own selfish reasons. These people are working day in and day out trying to give us a complete game and now people are upset about DLC characters who weren't even planned for the game.
That says something.
Lastly, people whined about "5 brand new characters for DLC" in SFVS2 but now we're likely going to see Legacy Characters come into T7's DLC and people still whine?
They can't win with certain people. Dudes just sound spoiled.
1.) I'm completely fine with the date. The Switch/Zelda comes out in March, Horizon, Mass Effect and other stuff is going on until this game releases so when this drops I'll be open. No issues there. Given Namco said they're making a full complete game, I'm a-ok with whatever they can do to reach that point. Give me Arcade Mode, Ghost Battle, the best Story Mode ever just whatever they can do I'm cool with it.
2.) No issues with the DLC practices. Given Harada and team had to get a separate budget from the heads of Namco for it to even happen it's cool with me. That's the only way the DLC characters would be in the game otherwise. Paying for them is ok too given I can't imagine how much time, effort and research goes into it. The team's been working hard on everything thus far judging from what I've seen of their twitter comments. Given that? I'm cool with it. I don't care that Lei, Anna, Julia and etc are DLC characters much. Namco's actually putting characters people want as DLC rather than "brand new fighters in the universe" so that's a plus.
3.) The fact the NA CE doesn't come with a Season Pass is ridiculous to me. Sure, if the prices are different for the NA and EU CE it's understandable but if ours in NA is 150, judging from what I see the EU CE price is that factors to about what 162 bucks, averaging it out it's like a what 13 dollar different in their favor. I wish it wasn't this way. We need the Deluxe in the CE not the Day One. Just isn't right tbh.
Whatever, I'm off that.
4.) Tekken Lore-wise, Heihachi ain't surviving this one. No. Way. At. All. He's gonna die, he's just gotta die at the end of this. His original VA died years ago, he's crying a lot in these preview videos, he's old, just kill em lol. T8 will have a timeskip and there's going to be a new relative like idk Jin's son or Lars's son or whatever just someone who's related who will have Heihachi's old fighting style. Who knows.
Overall I'm hyped.
One last thing tho.
5.) Anyone upset about the DLC practices, I don't get them and they seem whiny and spoiled. These characters weren't scheduled for the game in the first place, they weren't going to be in the game at all, Harada and team had to get a new budget for them to even be included as DLC. Basically, guys would rather have the game come out later and have these characters included (which the release date had people were whining about more than "my character wasn't in the game") or have these characters not be in T7 at all and we might not even see them until T8 or hell ever again since some are old. The fact they had to ask for a completely separate budget to even include some people is ok with me because it's an entirely different thing from the base game. There's research, development, testing and such that goes into brand new characters being included let alone for console T7. It's not like TTT2 in this game. Besides that, if I recall, more fans said they were ok with paid DLC, they experimented with TR, it makes perfect sense. I also recall something about TTT2 not being well with DLC to the heads hence why TR even came into play.
Basically, would people rather wait even longer for the game to come out for the characters or just not have them? Besides that, people talk about Bamco's business practices and strategies all the time and this is a smart business move. If anyone disagree that's less about what's smart for Bamco, the Tekken Team and the series as a whole compared to their own selfish reasons. These people are working day in and day out trying to give us a complete game and now people are upset about DLC characters who weren't even planned for the game.
That says something.
Lastly, people whined about "5 brand new characters for DLC" in SFVS2 but now we're likely going to see Legacy Characters come into T7's DLC and people still whine?
They can't win with certain people. Dudes just sound spoiled.
Makes sense why they'd have a Season Pass and paid DLC. That's an extra year of content for the game.
I love it.
Also to the comment about them "not selling classic characters", I wonder if that's a hint towards any classics not being for sale. Either way I approve of this decision.
I love it.
Also to the comment about them "not selling classic characters", I wonder if that's a hint towards any classics not being for sale. Either way I approve of this decision.
SquirrelSoup
Member
A year? That's awesome.
GrayFoxPL
Member
They did stall it on purpose. The last excuse we need is that they didn't have development time over the past 3 years. As confirmed via interviews, etc., the Tekken team was working simultaneously on TKXSF, Pokken, Smash Bros., Lost Reavers, Rise of Incarnates, and Summer Lesson while developing Tekken 7. Why invest development time in creating shitty side games like Lost Reavers or games that are dead shortly after release like RoI, when they could have spent that time actually ensuring a smooth console launch for Tekken 7? Even Pokken Tournament was underperforming in arcades and they ported that shit right away to console (a year and 3 months before Tekken 7 despite being announced/revealed after Tekken 7). Tekken 7 wasn't underpeforming in arcades and they milked it as long as they could.
I played and enjoyed vanilla. All FR did was add rage attacks and upgrade the graphics and even then some stages looked far better in Vanilla (Jungle Outpost and Souq in particular).
Edit: Damn, I sound so sour. I really need to let it go and stop posting. Only get more irritated the more I talk about this.
Harada on why he changed his mind on DLC.
I wonder if this means there might be post-release classic characters added in free updates that are partially supported by the season pass sales.
Anyway, I don't know why people are acting like there are no base game characters left to be revealed. We're still over four months away from launch.
I took it as this:
There will be free characters who are classics released before the game launches and potentially after the game. Tekken's tweet above when someone asked about Lei said there's still things to reveal before launch so with that said, some will be in the game. I also take it that some new characters will be paid while some post-game classics won't be paid.
We might be seeing a "ok this classic is free while this new is paid" type of thing for post-launch content.
SUPARSTARX
Member
Where else can I preorder PS4 collector's without being charged?
Is this going to be an official stage? I know it was in the trailer but still.
Amazon. Don't try Best Buy because they'll charge you for a few days and then take it away but that first charge does go through for a bit.
Amazon. Don't try Best Buy because they'll charge you for a few days and then take it away but that first charge does go through for a bit.
Have a Nice Day
Member
Looks like she's going to have a meter and a super just like Akuma.
Is this going to be an official stage? I know it was in the trailer but still.
Amazon. Don't try Best Buy because they'll charge you for a few days and then take it away but that first charge does go through for a bit.
Isnt that the Mishima building rooftop?
Yep but in the day so it's similar to T5/DR's changes. I dig it personally. I want them to do that with more stages. If we get DLC that has some stages during different times of the day?
I'd love it.
I'd be happy enough if they included some of the vanilla version stages. Been hoping/asking for that for a while now.
Harada on why he changed his mind on DLC.
I'd be okay with this. It would be cool if that actually meant brand new characters are being added to the roster.
I wonder how they manage Online and DLC stages. It would make no sense to buy DLC stages if your friends don't have them.
Valkerionseven
Member
Wonder if they will have any way to get the extra physical goodies for the PC version peeps like a download code.
Though not opposed to using my PS4 for this for tradition sake.
Though not opposed to using my PS4 for this for tradition sake.
I'm so fucking hyped now that we have a release date! I pre-ordered the Collectors Edition already. That Heihachi / Kazuya fight shall stand right beside my Bishoujo Tekken girls.
I can't wait to write down stuff, practice the same combos, and wiring my brain and to learn from the best in our community!
I can't wait to write down stuff, practice the same combos, and wiring my brain and to learn from the best in our community!
joey_bone_bomb
Member
Harada on why he changed his mind on DLC.
Yeah, I don't see how anyone can see this whole thing as a negative. Support after launch, with a steady stream of updates and new content - It took Namco a long time to adopt this concept for Tekken, and it has long been overdue.
Ultimately, Harada's stance on DLC had to change to keep Tekken relevant. What's the alternative? Injustice 2 would release weeks before Tekken, but with constant content updates (mainly new characters, but also the more superfluous cosmetic DLC that people enjoy and expect nowadays) it would still be enjoyed by a large audience and would keep bringing in new players while Tekken 7 would have long been dropped by the masses. Out of sight, out of mind.
Maybe it's time for some of you to re-evaluate your firm cynical stance on DLC and season passes and the like. Growing up playing video games in the late 90s it certainly took me a while before my perception of DLC and everything that particular side of the business entails could change. But the merits then weren't as obvious as they are now.
It isn't just horse armor and on-disc-DLC characters anymore. Those were the norm back then, when now we have companies still working on new and substantial content for their games long after release. For a game like Tekken, and fighting games in general, I perceive this as a major benefit.
I personally never had any issues with dlc for that game. Im ok with it and after some transparency with Haradas comments folk should calm down. I would even gladly pay for something that Injustice 2 is doing - alternate costume for example Josie/Bruce with respective voice over.
The only problem i had was the fact that they included Eliza - but after that trailer her move set looks a bit more interesting than what i saw from TRevo (still don't dig her design though). But even if she is not gonna click with me its i would say part of the charm of this series? I was dealing with characters that i hated since T6 and somehow I'm ok with them, almost 10 years in and for example Alisa is slowly growing on me
Tekken to me is like a marriage where you have to go for compromises from time to time.
The only problem i had was the fact that they included Eliza - but after that trailer her move set looks a bit more interesting than what i saw from TRevo (still don't dig her design though). But even if she is not gonna click with me its i would say part of the charm of this series? I was dealing with characters that i hated since T6 and somehow I'm ok with them, almost 10 years in and for example Alisa is slowly growing on me
Tekken to me is like a marriage where you have to go for compromises from time to time.
speedwagon_
Banned
After Ailsa's new costume I'm completely fine with her now, superfluous as it is I think it helped a lot.
EDIT: Same, Mad.
EDIT: Same, Mad.
Thank goodness I pre-ordered mine yesterday. I still really regret that I sold my "We Are Tekken" edition of Tag 2.
Spuck-uk
Banned
I'd definitely play Bloodborne. It's fantastic, and ha that fast paced feel similar to Nioh (and a much, much nicer world IMO)
SquirrelSoup
Member
I wrote some stuff on Eliza.
http://cephiria.blogspot.nl/2017/01/tekken-7-eliza-trailer-analysis.html
http://cephiria.blogspot.nl/2017/01/tekken-7-eliza-trailer-analysis.html