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[Explosive Zombie]

So the reviews are coming in on rotten tomatoes and there's a through-line I'm noticing which is critics upset the film is too hard to understand, has too little expository dialogue to explain things and needs more humor.

As a longtime Nolan fan there are certain things I always thought were his biggest issues as a filmmaker and those things were his need to explain everything through expository dialogue treating the audience like children, and the bad humor most noticeable in his dark Knight franchise. I don't go to a Nolan movie to get the same experience I do at an MCU movie but apparently that's what a lot of critics want.

to be fair it's largely positively received so far but even the positive reviews will have caveats to them. you'll see many professional critics expressing how confused they are by the film but how they enjoyed it anyways because the action and spectacle were big, and to be fair due to his reliance on practical effects and what a great action director he has become overtime I do expect those things to me much better than the average summer film though it is notwithstanding films like mad Max fury road. That said it's curious the anti-intellectualism streak you can find in critic reviews nowadays I saw a similar phenom in regards to the film Joker last year.

This is one of those times where the mixed reviews actually makes me more excited than if they were glowingly positive, it will always matter more why someone feels how they feel than what arbitrary number they tribute to that feeling.

 

[Woffls]

No needless exposition or failed attempts at humour? Sign me up! For the Blu-ray! In 2021! Hopefully!

 

[teezzy]

Sounds like it's an actual film and not just cookie cutter spoon fed garbage

You never hear this kinda garbo as a response to Lynch's work when everyone is too busy suckling his finger wiggling teets. Film is a visual medium. The symbolism is there, the whole thing is communication.

I'm not even the biggest Nolan fan but I can respect the man knows his craft far above all the wannabe filmmakers who end up as critics

I'll have to see Tenet now. Thanks for the thread

 

[carlosrox]

Lack of humor is a good thing. Tired of all this self aware Marvel style shit crammed into everything.

 

[godhandiscen]

It sounds like a good movie.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Sounds like it's an actual film and not just cookie cutter spoon fed garbage

You never hear this kinda garbo as a response to Lynch's work when everyone is too busy suckling his finger wiggling teets. Film is a visual medium. The symbolism is there, the whole thing is communication.

I'm not even the biggest Nolan fan but I can respect the man knows his craft far above all the wannabe filmmakers who end up as critics

I'll have to see Tenet now. Thanks for the thread

The thing is the critics don't like movies having it both ways we saw that with interstellar and the tomatometer it received, critics like the big action movies to have big dumb spectacle and not be very smart and they like their smart movies to not have big dumb spectacle the problem with Nolan is that he combines the two. Though that doesn't explain Joker, with Joker they just made a serious drama but used a license comic book character which apparently also crosses their taboo though it also coincided with the weird media frenzy over the idea that the film was going to inspire real acts of violence. Tho to my knowledge that idea began when it was showcased at a film festival so the critics are actually at fault more than the mainstream media I would argue.

 

[teezzy]

^ Interstellar was one of the Nolan films I loved. Didnt care much for Joker as it was quite clearly a sheep in wolf's clothing and just came across to me as a poor-man's Taxi Driver for preteens with further Scorsese homages tossed in.

I can respect where you're coming from though

 

[pachura]

That's great! I wish there were more mindfucks in Inception - think Primer, Coherence - and a bit less action sequences...

 

[Sakura Doritos]

It just sounds like this is the Dark Souls of Nolan films. I for one wait!

 

[Explosive Zombie]

^ Interstellar was one of the Nolan films I loved. Didnt care much for Joker as it was quite clearly a sheep in wolf's clothing and just came across to me as a poor-man's Taxi Driver for preteens with further Scorsese homages tossed in.

I can respect where you're coming from though

Where I'm coming from is more about movies like black panther earning over 90% averages on rotten tomatoes, my problem isn't with people who had genuine grievances with the film Joker, in fact the level of subjectivity in film analysis I would argue is greater than in video games even though video games are transformative there are elements of games that are inarguable that matter less when it comes to filmmaking or at least when discussing films most of the time. To put it another way were Joker a video game we both know it would have scored amazingly well because it hits every technical note it needs to and the metacritic for games like last of us to prove video game critics aren't afraid of controversial narratives. I'm more talking about how critics will go gushing over the John wick movies while crapping on anything that aspires to be more then what they offer. It's divorce from my own opinions of the films, it should be noted I'm a big fan of the John wick films but I see what the critics are doing they appreciate that the John wick films are staying in their lane and understand that they're just dumb action movies where artistic flourishes are strictly visual and in how they're choreographed and directed, if only the average critic understood style is substance anyways.

 

[Spaceman292]

I haven't seen it yet. Ken Branagh's silly russian accent sounds stupid I guess. But I thought there was way too much exposition in Interstellar and Inception, so maybe I'll like this more.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

I haven't seen it yet. Ken Branagh's silly russian accent sounds stupid I guess. But I thought there was way too much exposition in Interstellar and Inception, so maybe I'll like this more.

I'm actually assuming it's still going to have plenty of exposition the thing with critic reviews nowadays is depending on the review you read it sounds like you're reading about the opposite movie to what the other critic saw. going through the reviews on rotten tomatoes I will see one credit claim characters only exist for expository dialogue and are empty shells for the plot but then the next review I read will be about how little of the film is explained and how confusing it is as a result sometimes the same thought in the same review. it doesn't necessarily have to be contradictory it could very well be that most of the dialogue is expository but still doesn't explain everything going on in the film. Films like the matrix and inception were infamous for confusing people at the time despite having pretty clear exposition for what they were doing. Sometimes the truth is if the concepts of film is tackling are far enough beyond the intellectual grasp of some people no amount of exposition will make it make sense. If you could make anything make sense we'd all be brain surgeons and rocket scientists

 

[SentientStone]

Will be watching this in 10 days, I have a feeling it will be great.
Forget those manchild complaining, life is serious shit, fuck humour.
Oh look, a marshmallow.

 

[Rentahamster]

So the reviews are coming in on rotten tomatoes and there's a through-line I'm noticing which is critics upset the film is too hard to understand, has too little expository dialogue to explain things and needs more humor.

That's not necessarily a bad thing in my book. Nolan is talented and all his movies have been great and share those qualities. I don't see why I shouldn't give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Spaceman292]

I'm actually assuming it's still going to have plenty of exposition the thing with critic reviews nowadays is depending on the review you read it sounds like you're reading about the opposite movie to what the other critic saw. going through the reviews on rotten tomatoes I will see one credit claim characters only exist for expository dialogue and are empty shells for the plot but then the next review I read will be about how little of the film is explained and how confusing it is as a result sometimes the same thought in the same review. it doesn't necessarily have to be contradictory it could very well be that most of the dialogue is expository but still doesn't explain everything going on in the film. Films like the matrix and inception were infamous for confusing people at the time despite having pretty clear exposition for what they were doing. Sometimes the truth is if the concepts of film is tackling are far enough beyond the intellectual grasp of some people no amount of exposition will make it make sense. If you could make anything make sense we'd all be brain surgeons and rocket scientists

Fair enough. If you just read tonnes of random reviews written by random assholes they usually don't make any sense. I just base it on one or two reviews from reviewers the reviews of which I have read and appreciated in the past reviewers reviewereriwervs

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Fair enough. If you just read tonnes of random reviews written by random assholes they usually don't make any sense. I just base it on one or two reviews from reviewers the reviews of which I have read and appreciated in the past reviewers reviewereriwervs

I wish I had a critic I trusted in that way but then again my favorite critics are usually the people we'll talk about films long after they've released writing essays about them in video format or text. Something like collative learning on YouTube for instance is far more valuable to me than anyone counted on the tomatometer. But I do think it's interesting to discuss what the critics are saying that are counted on the tomatometer and how it relates to the general zeitgeist.

 

[Spaceman292]

I wish I had a critic I trusted in that way but then again my favorite critics are usually the people we'll talk about films long after they've released writing essays about them in video format or text. Something like collative learning on YouTube for instance is far more valuable to me than anyone counted on the tomatometer. But I do think it's interesting to discuss what the critics are saying that are counted on the tomatometer and how it relates to the general zeitgeist.

You don't have to agree with everything a critic says. If you read or listen to them for long enough you get to know what they're in to and you can use it as a good yard stick for yourself. I know Mark Kermode hates tarantino movies but I like them.

 

[triplestation]

I'M NOT WEARIN HOCKEY PADS!

 

[Explosive Zombie]

You don't have to agree with everything a critic says. If you read or listen to them for long enough you get to know what they're in to and you can use it as a good yard stick for yourself. I know Mark Kermode hates tarantino movies but I like them.

No I agree with that in fact this whole thread is about how the text overviews can be more important than the score. I just think the type of reviews you see on the tomatometer are usually more about getting clicks on a website and making money than actual film analysis. you see the worst of it on YouTube sometimes people literally reviewing a film in the car right after walking out of the theater. I mean to be fair maybe we're dealing with some advanced minfs here but I feel like for most people a film needs to digest a bit. The best film analysis almost always comes late not before a film releases in theaters.

 

[triplestation]

that's the nolan experience, really

everything, and i mean absolutely everything is tightly knit

even if there's humor it's wearing a tuxedo

it brings a sterile quality to the watching experience but you know that's like his signature feel

 

[Explosive Zombie]

that's the nolan experience, really

everything, and i mean everything is absolutely everything is tightly knit

even if there's humor it's wearing a tuxedo

it brings a sterile quality to the watching experience but you know that's like his signature feel

I have so much more respect for a director who has an actual style I subscribe to auteur theory and really love that I can watch a Quentin Tarantino movie or a Michael Bay movie and know that it's them without actually being told it's them. I also prefer film to digital and practical to CGI what a coincidence that most genuine auteurs feel the same. even Michael Bay making his transformers movies does as much practical as he possibly can it's really amazing and as stupid as the films are the technical wizardry they pull off puts to shame the entire MCU no matter how much more funny and palatable they are.

 

[Spaceman292]

No I agree with that in fact this whole thread is about how the text overviews can be more important than the score. I just think the type of reviews you see on the tomatometer are usually more about getting clicks on a website and making money than actual film analysis. you see the worst of it on YouTube sometimes people literally reviewing a film in the car right after walking out of the theater. I mean to be fair maybe we're dealing with some advanced minfs here but I feel like for most people a film needs to digest a bit. The best film analysis almost always comes late not before a film releases in theaters.

yeh if peopel dont like it their big superplebs fuckem

 

[EviLore]

Sounds great. Inception and Interstellar were bogged down by exposition and handholding at times.

 

[DKehoe]

Just booked tickets to see it next week. I'm intrigued by that description but I'm going to avoid reading up much about it.

 

[O-N-E]

Sounds great. Inception and Interstellar were bogged down by exposition and handholding at times.

Meh. I thought it was handled well. Especially in Inception, knowing the rules adds a lot to the scenario.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

Love Nolan. Gonna watch it next sunday. Can't wait. For me lack of humour (or, to be precise, marvel-esque humour) is a good thing. I hate how people are spoiled nowadays to cheap sarcasm and stupid quips every 3 minutes thanks to marvel cinema, eh...

 

[deafmedal]

Nolan is probably my favorite current director, I’ve watched and enjoyed everything (even TDKR, don’t @me) with the exception of Memento (I should fix that). This was the only movie this year I was looking forward to, hopefully I’ll still get to see it in a theater.

Disney created and released c19 because they had a shit line up after last year

 

[Super Mario]

In Nolan we trust

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Nolan is probably my favorite current director, I’ve watched and enjoyed everything (even TDKR, don’t @me) with the exception of Memento (I should fix that). This was the only movie this year I was looking forward to, hopefully I’ll still get to see it in a theater.

Disney created and released c19 because they had a shit line up after last year

The dark Knight rises is absolutely amazing an epic masterpiece. It's also very easily memeable I feel both these things can occur at the same time. Kind of like revenge of the sith the best of the prequels.

 

[Tesseract]

sounds good, little in the way of exposition or humor is best nolan

 

[showernota]

I never feel hyped before a Nolan movie comes out, but they are usually some of my favorites when I eventually see them. Looking forward to this!

 

[Explosive Zombie]

I never feel hyped before a Nolan movie comes out, but they are usually some of my favorites when I eventually see them. Looking forward to this!

Weirdly enough I feel the same way. before The dark Knight rises I was worried that it couldn't touch the dark Knight and then I saw and in my opinion it's in the same league as The dark Knight it's just different. Then inception believe it or not as well done as those trailers were I was worried it was going to be more Memento and I wasn't going to get my action quota out of my Nolan films anymore then I go see it and realize the entire last hour and a half is one big spectacle and I was like okay this might be my new favorite Nolan now. then interstellar now interstellar has great trailers but I was once again feeling myself with a certain level of anti hype because I was like there's not going to be cool evil aliens or gun fights so what are the chances I like this as much as his prior films and I can say right now it is probably my favorite Nolan film. Dunkirk was sort of the same I said I don't really care for war films and it's a PG-13 war film at that go and see it and realize it's somehow more intense than any Rated-R war film has ever been I said I'm not going to claim it rose to the top of my Nolan list, for technical prowess I can't praise the film enough but it is definitely not my favorite Nolan that said I cannot stress enough how well-made it is and how much it was like a 2-hour anxiety attack in IMAX. Tenet is like a James Bond film with time travel so I'm strapped in big time and I expect to love it that said if I didn't have such a clear history of doubting Nolan and then loving his films I'm not sure how much the trailers would do for me now they are well made trailers but the thing with Nolan trailers is they are expertly crafted both to intrigue you about the film but also not spoil the film I find the film's I get the most hype for tend to be the films that have trailers that spoil the film. I like that he doesn't spoil his films but it does mean my hype levels aren't quite at what they would be going to see certain other movies, at this point I expect to come out of it thinking it's one of the best movies ever made just because that's usually what I think when I come out of a Nolan film.

 

[showernota]

Weirdly enough I feel the same way. before The dark Knight rises I was worried that it couldn't touch the dark Knight and then I saw and in my opinion it's in the same league as The dark Knight it's just different. Then inception believe it or not as well done as those trailers were I was worried it was going to be more Memento and I wasn't going to get my action quota out of my Nolan films anymore then I go see it and realize the entire last hour and a half is one big spectacle and I was like okay this might be my new favorite Nolan now. then interstellar now interstellar has great trailers but I was once again feeling myself with a certain level of anti hype because I was like there's not going to be cool evil aliens or gun fights so what are the chances I like this as much as his prior films and I can say right now it is probably my favorite Nolan film. Dunkirk was sort of the same I said I don't really care for war films and it's a PG-13 war film at that go and see it and realize it's somehow more intense than any Rated-R war film has ever been I said I'm not going to claim it rose to the top of my Nolan list, for technical prowess I can't praise the film enough but it is definitely not my favorite Nolan that said I cannot stress enough how well-made it is and how much it was like a 2-hour anxiety attack in IMAX. Tenet is like a James Bond film with time travel so I'm strapped in big time and I expect to love it that said if I didn't have such a clear history of doubting Nolan and then loving his films I'm not sure how much the trailers would do for me now they are well made trailers but the thing with Nolan trailers is they are expertly crafted both to intrigue you about the film but also not spoil the film I find the film's I get the most hype for tend to be the films that have trailers that spoil the film. I like that he doesn't spoil his films but it does mean my hype levels aren't quite at what they would be going to see certain other movies, at this point I expect to come out of it thinking it's one of the best movies ever made just because that's usually what I think when I come out of a Nolan film.

Thank you for making a post describing exactly how I feel

I haven't seen Dunkirk yet, but now I'll be watching it this weekend!

 

[carlosrox]

I've tried very hard to like Inception and gave it numerous chances but there is something I just do not like about it. There are some solid moments and great ideas but as a whole there is something I don't like about it and I can't really put my finger on it.

Love Interstellar, I think it's one of the GOAT. I'll never, ever understand how people don't like that movie.

Haven't seen Dunkirk yet.

This movie looks pretty good, I just hope it's not another Inception for me.

 

[Hulk_Smash]

No needless exposition or failed attempts at humour? Sign me up! For the Blu-ray! In 2021! Hopefully!

The blu-ray! How exciting! Thank you for hinting at how cool you are for skipping the theater!

 

[Explosive Zombie]

The blu-ray! How exciting! Thank you for hinting at how cool you are for skipping the theater!

Normally I'd assume they meant the same thing but in this case it could just be fear of covid-19 or they don't live near a theater that's actually going to play it

 

[Rentahamster]

There are some solid moments and great ideas but as a whole there is something I don't like about it and I can't really put my finger on it.

Characters? Plot? Chemistry? Plausibility?

I just watched it again last night for free on Prime Video. It still holds up.

 

[Woffls]

Skipping the theatre is cool? News to me I just prefer watching films at home.

 

[-Arcadia-]

Like most everyone else, I view the people reviewing this with suspicion, not the film.

We can't, after all, regularly rip apart the media for anti-intellectualism, clickbait, political priorities over artistic, etc., then turn around and say, 'Wow, this review must be right about everything!'.

Which. A surprising amount of people do that.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Like most everyone else, I view the people reviewing this with suspicion, not the film.

We can't, after all, regularly rip apart the media for anti-intellectualism, clickbait, political priorities over artistic, etc., then turn around and say, 'Wow, this review must be right about everything!'.

Which. A surprising amount of people do that.

It's very true, if the stars align for them suddenly the media at large is trustworthy, for me if they agree with me I began to question why.

 

[carlosrox]

Characters? Plot? Chemistry? Plausibility?

I just watched it again last night for free on Prime Video. It still holds up.

Well one thing for me is the movie is all about dreams, yet the visuals aren't all that fantastic. They feel too grounded in reality somehow and just not surreal enough. Yes I know the city folds in on itself and there are a few other visual gags but it's just not enough.

Then there's the plot itself just somehow feeling confusing, even though it's simple as hell. I always lose track of WTF is going on once they're in the snow.

And yeah the characters aren't terrible interesting to me.

I want to like Inception, I keep trying, but every time I watch it it just doesn't blow me away.

Memento, Insomnia, DK, and Interstellar are all much better in my book. I also prefer DKR to BB. BB never sat right with me. I prefer Burton's 89 Batman muuuuuuuch more.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Well one thing for me is the movie is all about dreams, yet the visuals aren't all that fantastic. They feel too grounded in reality somehow and just not surreal enough. Yes I know the city folds in on itself and there are a few other visual gags but it's just not enough.

Then there's the plot itself just somehow feeling confusing, even though it's simple as hell. I always lose track of WTF is going on once they're in the snow.

And yeah the characters aren't terrible interesting to me.

I want to like Inception, I keep trying, but every time I watch it it just doesn't blow me away.

Memento, Insomnia, DK, and Interstellar are all much better in my book. I also prefer DKR to BB. BB never sat right with me. I prefer Burton's 89 Batman muuuuuuuch more.

I liked that, the idea was dreams feel real when we're in them and the more crazy it gets the more your subconscious realizes you're dreaming. In the films a different person is crafting the world of the dream for the dreamer, it's meant to convince them they're not dreaming.

The characters aren't amazing but I think they're enough to service the film.

I also prefer Burton's 89 Batman, also TDKR > BB

 

[Rentahamster]

Well one thing for me is the movie is all about dreams, yet the visuals aren't all that fantastic. They feel too grounded in reality somehow and just not surreal enough. Yes I know the city folds in on itself and there are a few other visual gags but it's just not enough.

Is it that the "realism" of the dreams is unrealistic to what your preconceived notions of what dreams are "supposed" to be? Does that interrupt your suspension of disbelief to the point that it interferes with your ability to sit back and enjoy the movie? One of the plot points of the movie is that the dreams need to be grounded in reality in order for the thieves to succeed in their heist - that is not enough of an in-world justification?

Then there's the plot itself just somehow feeling confusing, even though it's simple as hell. I always lose track of WTF is going on once they're in the snow.

Yeah, that is a common critique of the movie. Does this confusion interfere with your ability to enjoy the other aspects of the movie? You're too preoccupied with trying to figure out what the objective is and why they're doing what they're doing at the moment and why that's important?

And yeah the characters aren't terrible interesting to me.

I see. It's hard to give everyone in an ensemble cast a deep backstory, but I thought the interactions with each other were decently multi-dimensional.

I want to like Inception, I keep trying, but every time I watch it it just doesn't blow me away.

Memento, Insomnia, DK, and Interstellar are all much better in my book. I also prefer DKR to BB. BB never sat right with me. I prefer Burton's 89 Batman muuuuuuuch more.

If you watch a short video like this, for example, where the author describes everything he loves about the movie, what would you say your biggest disagreement is specifically?

 

[Radical Dreamer]

This looks so good!

 

[Halo is Back]

I'll check it out but Dunkirk was one of the most disappointing movies I have seen. Especially for a WW2 film.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

that final trailer is SICK

 

[carlosrox]

This looks so good!

Fucking great trailer. Awesome music.

I like this and the first trailer, second one was disappointing.

I really hope I like this. I do really appreciate that most of Nolan's movies have this feel to them that's unique to his movies. They also seem to share a lot of themes. Even the visuals and stuff have a similar feel.

Wanna try and see this in theaters for sure!

 

[carlosrox]

I'll check it out but Dunkirk was one of the most disappointing movies I have seen. Especially for a WW2 film.

This is how I felt about Hacksaw Ridge especially coming from Passion and Apocalypto which I thought were both all time fucking masterpieces. Apocalypto I could watch any time, I never get tired of it.

And I fucking hate Hacksaw Ridge. I hate it so much. I think it's a boring, forgettable, waste of a WW2 movie, especially when the director seemed so suited to it.

Reminds me of Spielberg's War of the Worlds. I thought it was right up his alley as the new Jurassic Park and it was so fucking disappointing. Felt almost zero tension and fuck the son character and the idiotic ending. One of the biggest disappointments ever.

 

[Halo is Back]

This is how I felt about Hacksaw Ridge especially coming from Passion and Apocalypto which I thought were both all time fucking masterpieces. Apocalypto I could watch any time, I never get tired of it.

And I fucking hate Hacksaw Ridge. I hate it so much. I think it's a boring, forgettable, waste of a WW2 movie, especially when the director seemed so suited to it.

Reminds me of Spielberg's War of the Worlds. I thought this was right up his alley as the new Jurassic Park and it was so fucking disappointing.

Never saw it. What didn't you like about it?

 

[carlosrox]

Never saw it. What didn't you like about it?

Completely boring and uninteresting. After Mel Gibson's two dark and graphic movies before it I expected Hacksaw Ridge to be Saving Private Ryan on steroids but the movie is so anemic. The main guy is a pacificist and stays that way the whole movie. It's so forgettable I don't even remember what happens in the movie.
One of the worst things a movie can be is truly forgettable, and this 100% was to me. I barely remember any events in the movie.