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Terri Schiavo: Judicial Murder

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Eric-GCA

Banned
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0513,hentoff,62489,6.html
A great read, but I'm sure it'll be dismissed by most of you:
Terri Schiavo: Judicial Murder
Her crime was being disabled, voiceless, and at the disposal of our media

by Nat Hentoff
March 29th, 2005 10:59 AM

For all the world to see, a 41-year-old woman, who has committed no crime, will die of dehydration and starvation in the longest public execution in American history.
She is not brain-dead or comatose, and breathes naturally on her own. Although brain-damaged, she is not in a persistent vegetative state, according to an increasing number of radiologists and neurologists.

Among many other violations of her due process rights, Terri Schiavo has never been allowed by the primary judge in her case—Florida Circuit Judge George Greer, whose conclusions have been robotically upheld by all the courts above him—to have her own lawyer represent her.

Greer has declared Terri Schiavo to be in a persistent vegetative state, but he has never gone to see her. His eyesight is very poor, but surely he could have visited her along with another member of his staff. Unlike people in a persistent vegetative state, Terri Schiavo is indeed responsive beyond mere reflexes.

While lawyers and judges have engaged in a minuet of death, the American Civil Liberties Union, which would be passionately criticizing state court decisions and demanding due process if Terri were a convict on death row, has shamefully served as co-counsel for her husband, Michael Schiavo, in his insistent desire to have her die.

Months ago, in discussing this case with ACLU executive director Anthony Romero, and later reading ACLU statements, I saw no sign that this bastion of the Bill of Rights has ever examined the facts concerning the egregious conflicts of interest of her husband and guardian Michael Schiavo, who has been living with another woman for years, with whom he has two children, and has violated a long list of his legal responsibilities as her guardian, some of them directly preventing her chances for improvement. Judge Greer has ignored all of them.

In February, Florida's Department of Children and Families presented Judge Greer with a 34-page document listing charges of neglect, abuse, and exploitation of Terri by her husband, with a request for 60 days to fully investigate the charges. Judge Greer, soon to remove Terri's feeding tube for the third time, rejected the 60-day extension. (The media have ignored these charges, and much of what follows in this article.)

Michael Schiavo, who says he loves and continues to be devoted to Terri, has provided no therapy or rehabilitation for his wife (the legal one) since 1993. He did have her tested for a time, but stopped all testing in 1993. He insists she once told him she didn't want to survive by artificial means, but he didn't mention her alleged wishes for years after her brain damage, while saying he would care for her for the rest of his life.

Terri Schiavo has never had an MRI or a PET scan, nor a thorough neurological examination. Republican Senate leader Bill Frist, a specialist in heart-lung transplant surgery, has, as The New York Times reported on March 23, "certified [in his practice] that patients were brain dead so that their organs could be transplanted." He is not just "playing doctor" on this case.

During a speech on the Senate floor on March 17, Frist, speaking of Judge Greer's denial of a request for new testing and examinations of Terri, said reasonably, "I would think you would want a complete neurological exam" before determining she must die.

Frist added: "The attorneys for Terri's parents have submitted 33 affidavits from doctors and other medical professionals,all of whom say that Terri should be re-evaluated."

In death penalty cases, defense counsel for retarded and otherwise mentally disabled clients submit extensive medical tests. Ignoring the absence of complete neurological exams, supporters of the deadly decisions by Judge Greer and the trail of appellate jurists keep reminding us how extensive the litigation in this case has been—19 judges in six courts is the mantra. And more have been added. So too in many death penalty cases, but increasingly, close to execution, inmates have been saved by DNA.

As David Gibbs, the lawyer for Terri's parents, has pointed out, there has been a manifest need for a new federal, Fourteenth Amendment review of the case because Terri's death sentence has been based on seven years of "fatally flawed" state court findings—all based on the invincible neglect of elementary due process by Judge George Greer.

I will be returning to the legacy of Terri Schiavo in the weeks ahead because there will certainly be long-term reverberations from this case and its fracturing of the rule of law in the Florida courts and then the federal courts—as well as the disgracefully ignorant coverage of the case by the great majority of the media, including such pillars of the trade as The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Miami Herald, and the Los Angeles Times as they copied each other's misinformation, like Terri Schiavo being "in a persistent vegetative state."

Do you know that nearly every major disability rights organization in the country has filed a legal brief in support of Terri's right to live?

But before I go back to other Liberty Beats—the CIA's torture renditions and the whitewashing of the landmark ACLU and Human Rights First's lawsuit against Donald Rumsfeld for his accountability in the widespread abuse of detainees, including evidence of torture—I must correct the media and various "qualified experts" on how a person dies of dehydration if he or she is sentient, as Terri Schiavo demonstrably is.

On March 15's Nightline, in an appallingly one-sided, distorted account of the Schiavo case, Terri's husband, Michael—who'd like to marry the woman he's now living with—said that once Terri's feeding tube is removed at his insistent command, Terri "will drift off into a nice little sleep and eventually pass on and be with God."

As an atheist, I cannot speak to what he describes as his abandoned wife's ultimate destination, but I can tell how Wesley Smith (consultant to the Center for Bioethics and Culture)—whom I often consult on these bitterly controversial cases because of his carefully researched books and articles—describes death by dehydration.

In his book Forced Exit (Times Books), Wesley quotes neurologist William Burke: "A conscious person would feel it [dehydration] just as you and I would. . . . Their skin cracks, their tongue cracks, their lips crack. They may have nosebleeds because of the drying of the mucous membranes, and heaving and vomiting might ensue because of the drying out of the stomach lining.

"They feel the pangs of hunger and thirst. Imagine going one day without a glass of water! . . . It is an extremely agonizing death."

On March 23, outside the hospice where Terri Schiavo was growing steadily weaker, her mother, Mary, said to the courts and to anyone who would listen and maybe somehow save her daughter:

"Please stop this cruelty!"

While this cruelty was going on in the hospice, Michael Schiavo's serpentine lawyer, George Felos, said to one and all: "Terri is stable, peaceful, and calm. . . . She looked beautiful."

During the March 21 hearing before Federal Judge James D. Whittemore, who was soon to be another accomplice in the dehydration of Terri, the relentless Mr. Felos, anticipating the end of the deathwatch, said to the judge:

"Yes, life is sacred, but so is liberty, your honor, especially in this country."

It would be useless, but nonetheless, I would like to inform George Felos that, as Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas said: "The history of liberty is the history of due process"—fundamental fairness.

Contrary to what you've read and seen in most of the media, due process has been lethally absent in Terri Schiavo's long merciless journey through the American court system.

"As to legal concerns," writes William Anderson—a senior psychiatrist at Massachusetts General Hospital and a lecturer at Harvard University—"a guardian may refuse any medical treatment, but drinking water is not such a procedure. It is not within the power of a guardian to withhold, and not in the power of a rational court to prohibit."

Ralph Nader agrees. In a statement on March 24, he and Wesley Smith (author of, among other books, Culture of Death: The Assault of Medical Ethics in America) said: "The court is imposing process over justice. After the first trial [before Judge Greer], much evidence has been produced that should allow for a new trial—which was the point of the hasty federal legislation.

"If this were a death penalty case, this evidence would demand reconsideration. Yet, an innocent, disabled woman is receiving less justice. . . . This case is rife with doubt. Justice demands that Terri be permitted to live." (Emphasis added.)

But the polls around the country cried out that a considerable majority of Americans wanted her to die without Congress butting in.

A March 20 ABC poll showed that 60 percent of the 501 adults consulted opposed the ultimately unsuccessful federal legislation, and only 35 percent approved. Moreover, 70 percent felt strongly that it was wrong for Congress to get into such personal, private matters—and interfere with what some advocates of euthanasia call "death with dignity." (So much for the Fourteenth Amendment's guarantee of due process and equal protection of the laws.)

But, as Cathy Cleaver Ruse of the Secretariat for Pro-Life Activities of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops pointed out:

"The poll [questions] say she's 'on life support,' which is not true [since all she needs is water], and that she has 'no consciousness,' which her family and dozens of doctors dispute in sworn affidavits."

Many readers of this column are pro-choice, pro-abortion rights. But what choice did Terri Schiavo have under our vaunted rule of law—which the president is eagerly trying to export to the rest of the world? She had not left a living will or a durable power of attorney, and so could not speak for herself. But the American system of justice would not slake her thirst as she, on television, was dying in front of us all.

What kind of a nation are we becoming? The CIA outsources torture—in violation of American and international law—in the name of the freedoms we are fighting to protect against terrorism. And we have watched as this woman, whose only crime is that she is disabled, is tortured to death by judges, all the way to the Supreme Court.

And keep in mind from the Ralph Nader-Wesley Smith report: "The courts . . . have [also] ordered that no attempts be made to provide her water or food by mouth. Terri swallows her own saliva. Spoon feeding is not medical treatment. This outrageous order proves that the courts are not merely permitting medical treatment to be withheld, they have ordered her to be made dead."

In this country, even condemned serial killers are not executed in this way.
 

xsarien

daedsiluap
In this country, even condemned serial killers are not executed in this way.

Maybe if euthanasia were legal, we wouldn't have to do it this way. But, oh, wait, the same legislators who'd like to interrupt a very private, personal family dispute don't want that to be an option.
 

WedgeX

Banned
As an atheist, I cannot speak to what he describes as his abandoned wife's ultimate destination, but I can tell how Wesley Smith (consultant to the Center for Bioethics and Culture)—whom I often consult on these bitterly controversial cases because of his carefully researched books and articles—describes death by dehydration.

In his book Forced Exit (Times Books), Wesley quotes neurologist William Burke: "A conscious person would feel it [dehydration] just as you and I would. . . . Their skin cracks, their tongue cracks, their lips crack. They may have nosebleeds because of the drying of the mucous membranes, and heaving and vomiting might ensue because of the drying out of the stomach lining.

"They feel the pangs of hunger and thirst. Imagine going one day without a glass of water! . . . It is an extremely agonizing death."

The NY Times disagrees.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10C1EFC35580C738EDDAA0894DD404482(only a paying customer article now...but the snippets are here)

To many people, death by removing a feeding tube brings to mind the agony of starvation. But medical experts say that the process of dying that begins when food and fluids cease is relatively straightforward, and can cause little discomfort.

"From the data that is available, it is not a horrific thing at all," said Dr. Linda Emanuel, the founder of the Education for Physicians in End-of-Life Care Project at Northwestern University.

In fact, declining food and water is a common way that terminally ill patients end their lives, because it is less painful than violent suicide and requires no help from doctors.

...

Patients who are terminally ill and conscious and refuse food and drink at the end of life say that they do not generally experience pangs of hunger, since their bodies do not need much food. But they can suffer from dry mouth and other symptoms of dehydration that can be treated effectively.

Once food and water stop, death usually comes in about two weeks, and is caused by effects of dehydration, not the loss of nutrition, said Dr. Sean Morrison, a professor of geriatrics and palliative care at Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York. "They generally slip into a peaceful coma," he said. "It's very quiet, it's very dignified - it's very gentle."
 

jobber

Would let Tony Parker sleep with his wife
Yea, it pretty much sucks for her. She has to die on her own which is making her suffer :\
So I guess the only way I can die without being suicide is to starve.
 
OK Eric-GCA, I'm sure you'll dismiss this as a left-leaning elitist response, but this article is bunk because, like most opinions of this case by the religious zealots and self-righteous pityists, it consciously ignores basic facts of medical knowledge, legal procedure and the actual timeline of this particular case in order to produce a complete work of utter hyperbole.
 

Lil' Dice

Banned
I'd want to die if i were in her place, i would be a burden on my family otherwise.
Sometimes you have to let go, God did not intend for her to be in this state, she's a
soul-less shell of her former self.
And for the religious nuts, naitheGod, Jesus or divine spirits are keeping her alive, it's science; which makes their opinion on the matter utterly ironic.
 

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
Terri Schiavo: Judicial Murder
Her crime was being disabled, voiceless, and at the disposal of our media

I stopped reading at the hyperbolic headline so I can't comment on the content
 

xsarien

daedsiluap
Furthermore, Eric, the 14th amendment is a cop-out, only brought up by the shrill sheep who think it begins and ends at "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." (Without even realizing that the amendment actually states "Life, liberty, and property.")

The relevant section:
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

It can be quite reasonably argued that since Terri is in a vegetative state, the legal system is functioning just fine in that her husband, through the authority vested in him via marriage, will speak for her. If you want to talk about "life, liberty, or property," that's fine. But let's kick the discussion off with how Congress bent over backwards to basically take her right - liberty - to make this choice away from her, and then her husband.

We have the death penalty in this country, I think we've long since determined that the "right to life" is both poetic license, and never absolute. Nevermind the fact that as far as the *state* of Florida is concerned, due process (of law) was carried out.
 

SickBoy

Member
Although brain-damaged, she is not in a persistent vegetative state, according to an increasing number of radiologists and neurologists.

I'd like to see some commentary on this that refers to anyone other than this "Mayo" doctor Schiavo supporters were citing.

Terri Schiavo has never been allowed by the primary judge in her case—Florida Circuit Judge George Greer, whose conclusions have been robotically upheld by all the courts above him—to have her own lawyer represent her.

WTF? No one, not even her family, has suggested she's capable of telling a lawyer her wishes.

Greer has declared Terri Schiavo to be in a persistent vegetative state, but he has never gone to see her

Again, WTF? He's a judge and wisely relies on the opinions of medical experts.

As for Michael Schiavo's conflicts of interest, it's been covered in other threads. Who is this fucking retard who is openly making 25% of the United States hate him for pulling the plug on his wife, so he can remarry?

I don't see what he gets out of it... the option to marry? Sure. But I don't see how he couldn't get out of the marriage anyway.

Money? Not likely. There's some $50,000 left in trust according to reports. Last month he was offered $1 million to give up his guardianship. His lawyer said he's received bigger offers in the past. He hasn't done it, so what self-interest is he trying to serve if its not financial?

It seems no one who thinks the Schiavo tube removal is willing to believe Michael Schiavo's statement that this is what she would have wanted. I think it only makes sense that it's what she wanted -- she wound up in this state because of an eating disorder (in other words, because she had an unhealthy obsession with her outward appearance). So she would starve herself to this state so she could be the perfect size and shape only to say "yes, please keep me alive for 15 years on a hospital bed with a tube feeding me."?

As in many aspects of this case, no one will truly know for sure, but I think it's pretty unlikely.

I also think the parents (who I feel deeply sorry for) are in massive denial. Obviously, they think she's in a better state than many medical experts. They released video to the media that to them shows (I guess) a cognitive but disabled woman. All I see is a body that's moving on the outside... her father has also said he doesn't believe she had an eating disorder and that her husband had something to do with it...

...the same husband who fought for a quality care for her, and the same husband, who, according to court transcripts (from 2000, I believe) was her most frequent visitor. He's either some crazy evil guy, or he's doing what he thinks is right.

I feel for the parents... but Judicial Murder? I think it's more likely What Terry Schiavo Wanted.
 

AntoneM

Member
Eric-GCA said:
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0513,hentoff,62489,6.html
A great read, but I'm sure it'll be dismissed by most of you:

you're right, most people will dismiss it since many statements of fact the article makes are not backed up, it says that an increasing number of doctors believe she is not in a persistent vegetative state yet brings up no evidence to back up this claim, nor does it state which doctors say this, not even how many say this. That's just the first paragraph, of course I'm going to dismiss it.
 

etiolate

Banned
Ugh, there's a lot wrong here. I don't meant wrong in the article, I mean this whole thing is full of wrongs. The eating disorder, the husband with another woman, the courts, the death by dehydration. It's like a giant neon sign saying "AMERICA IS A MESS" and all our political parties can do is oppose each other just to oppose each other and throw barbs back and forth.
 
etiolate said:
Ugh, there's a lot wrong here. I don't meant wrong in the article, I mean this whole thing is full of wrongs. The eating disorder, the husband with another woman, the courts, the death by dehydration. It's like a giant neon sign saying "AMERICA IS A MESS" and all our political parties can do is oppose each other just to oppose each other and throw barbs back and forth.

Again, like so many other posts on this subject this is utter hyperbole and is not grounded in fact.

What issues are you raising with the "husband with another woman" comment? The courts? The death by dehydration?
 

etiolate

Banned
brooklyngooner said:
Again, like so many other posts on this subject this is utter hyperbole and is not grounded in fact.

What issues are you raising with the "husband with another woman" comment? The courts? The death by dehydration?

I'm just saying my spider sense is tingling about the whole thing.
 
Wow, this is too easy--one article with facts > one passionate rant without

http://www.nndb.com/people/435/000026357/
Terri Schiavo fell into a coma in 1990, and has been in a vegetative state ever since. Neurological tests and brain scans indicate that her cerebral cortex is now principally liquid.

According to the National Institutes of Health, patients in a persistent vegetative state lack "the higher cerebral powers of the brain, but the functions of the brainstem, such as respiration (breathing) and circulation, remain relatively intact. Spontaneous movements may occur and the eyes may open in response to external stimuli, but the patient does not speak or obey commands. Patients in a vegetative state may appear somewhat normal. They may occasionally grimace, cry, or laugh."

A vegetative state is not the same as being brain dead. If you're brain dead, you can't be kept alive without machines. But in a vegetative state, normal body functions continue without machines -- the body breathes, may twitch occasionally, and has sleep cycles (but without "waking up"). Swallowing requires higher brain function, something vegetables don't have, so a feeding tube is necessary.

Schiavo's doctors and court-appointed doctors say she cannot be rehabilitated. Her husband, Michael Schiavo, says he spoke with his wife (while she was capable of speaking) and she said she would never want to be kept alive through mechanical means. And he looked her in the eye (while there was something behind her eyes) and told her, 'All right, I won't allow that.'

So he wants her feeding tube removed, after which she would slowly die of malnutrition and dehydration -- basically starving to death. Michael Schiavo has taken a new lover, but refuses to divorce Terri, because doing so would forfeit his right to determine her care.

More than twenty times, the case has come to court in Florida. And every time, it has been ruled that the decision is her husband's to make. But Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, understandably want their daughter back. They say the situation isn't really hopeless. They believe she responds to them when they visit, and that she could recover with therapy. The family has videotaped Schiavo for many, many hours, discarded 99+% of the footage, and prepared a short "highlight" video featuring only the occasional moments when her facial expression looks vaguely like a smile, or when family members are posing where Schiavo seems to be staring, giving the illusion of "eye contact."

In 2003, a court-appointed guardian for Schiavo wrote that during the years-long legal struggle, her parents had "voiced the disturbing belief that they would keep Terri alive at any and all costs," even if that required amputation of her limbs. "As part of the hypothetical presented," the guardian's report stated, "Schindler family members stated that even if Terri had told them of her intention to have artificial nutrition withdrawn, they would not do it."

The case has become wildly controversial, a rallying issue for people who shriek about "the sanctity of life" (as if others don't hold life sacred). Of course, politicians have inserted themselves into the fray, and the case was the catalyst for Florida's controversial "Terri's Law," which gave Gov. Jeb Bush the authority to have Schiavo's feeding tube re-inserted when a court ruled that her husband could have it removed.

It is a tremendously sad family situation, undoubtedly painful for everyone involved (except, of course, Terri Schiavo).

And the circus continues. People who never met Terri Schiavo argue passionately about her fate, protesting court decisions, publishing newsletters or websites. Among the loudest "let her live!" hysterics, many argue in a fundamentally dishonest way, using tactics like referring to Schiavo as Terri Schindler (her name before marriage), or Terri Schiavo-Schindler (though in real life, she never hyphenated her name).

Her doctors say Schiavo's coma was caused by a potassium imbalance triggered by her bulimia. But the nuttiest "save Terri" activists know better, and claim she suffered a violent beating and possible strangulation at her husband's hand. Her parents now agree, and say that her husband often beat Schiavo when she was healthy -- but Schiavo never called the police, apparently never mentioned it to anyone, and her parents never mentioned it either until years after Schiavo was hospitalized.

Her husband has no special immunity to police inquiries, so if there are grounds to prosecute him for domestic violence or attempted murder, he presumably would have been prosecuted. There has been no such prosecution -- which, according to some activists, only proves that Florida police or prosecutors are on the take, or in on the conspiracy to kill Terri Schiavo ...

As the insanity moved to the federal level, Schiavo's feeding tube was removed in March 2005. Her parents say that as the tube was being withdrawn, Schiavo said, "I want to live!" But just this once, they apparently forgot to bring the video camera.

The U.S. Congress quickly passed legislation allowing federal courts to intervene, and President George W. Bush flew back to Washington to sign the bill into law.

A man was arrested in Florida after trying to steal a weapon from a gun shop, hoping to "take some action and rescue Terri Schiavo." Another man was arrested for offering a $250,000 bounty for Michael Schiavo's murder. Organized protesters flooded the Florida Department of Children & Families hotline, all reporting over and over again that Terri Schiavo was being murdered. Dozens of people were arrested one-by-one for trying to enter Schiavo's hospice and bring bottled water to this woman who can't swallow.

Cases like Schiavo's are not uncommon, and are disposed of much easier in Texas. When President Bush was Governor there, he signed into law measures that allow the hospital to pull the plug -- even against the family's wishes -- if the family can't pay for the patient's care.
 

whytemyke

Honorary Canadian.
*slams head on desk*

If people in this country cared as much about everyones rights as they do about saying their opinion on Schiavo's right to life/death, I imagine we'd be a bit better off as a society.

This entire thing just reminds me of that line from Hotel Rwanda: "People will see this and they'll say, 'Oh that's awful', and they'll go back to eating their dinner."
 
I think she should be allowed to die, just not the way they are doing it. Seems like the court didn't want to me totally commital and give the opposition time to appeal, of course this also results in a prolonged death if they don't get the decision reversed. Legal mess really.
 

3rdman

Member
MrPing1000 said:
I think she should be allowed to die, just not the way they are doing it. Seems like the court didn't want to me totally commital and give the opposition time to appeal, of course this also results in a prolonged death if they don't get the decision reversed. Legal mess really.

There is no other way to let her die. Not legally anyway. Anything else would be assisted murder in the eyes of the law.
 

bionic77

Member
She is not brain-dead or comatose, and breathes naturally on her own. Although brain-damaged, she is not in a persistent vegetative state, according to an increasing number of radiologists and neurologists.

I stopped reading at this point.

Starting off your article with a blatant mistruth is a sure fire way to get me to lose interest in a hurry.
 

Pellham

Banned
I think there should be a difference between "the right to die" and "she should die because she's a vegetable". I mean you can post all the scientific reasons for why she should not continue living, but ultimately that mentality shouldn't be present in this debate. We shouldn't be promoting the idea of killing people because they're not able to function anymore.

The way I see it, the only reason Michael has power over Terri's fate is because of laws concerning marriage. Even if he wants Terri to die, or Terri had at one point expressed her own will to die, if someone, say her parents, want her to live, then why not just let them do their thing? Terri doesn't feel any pain, so there is no harm in keeping her alive. It's not like she will know any better if she was dead or alive. Michael could have earned millions from the people offering money to keep Terri alive, and he could have divorced her and married his current lover years ago, but instead he's clinging to some ridiculous notion that his wife should die because she wanted it.

If I was in his position, I know what i'd be doing. I'd be laughing all the way to the bank while Terri festers for a few more years under her parents' care until she dies of natural causes. Nobody would hate me, and I'd be content living with my new family.

And who knows, maybe eventually her parents will realize they're wasting time and money, and pull the plug on her themselves.

Oh well too late now. She's going to die, and a quarter of the US thinks Michael Schiavo is evil. Nobody is going to win out here.
 

bob_arctor

Tough_Smooth
Pellham said:
Michael could have earned millions from the people offering money to keep Terri alive, and he could have divorced her and married his current lover years ago, but instead he's clinging to some ridiculous notion that his wife should die because she wanted it

As a married man, I can tell you if this ever went down w/ me and my wife, I would fight until the very bitter end to fulfill her wish, even if it was mentioned in passing. This is not about letting the parents get what they want so they can feel better, this isn't about them at all actually. It would be between me and my wife. End of story.
 

whytemyke

Honorary Canadian.
i think another amazing thing about this whole thing is that Bush's approval rating is only 31% in regards to how he handled this case. Congress' is only at 28%. Pretty crazy shit.

I pulled these numbers off of either Meet The Press or C-Span... not sure which one. I think it was Meet the Press though.
 

etiolate

Banned
Aye, the message here is "write a living will". Which is getting drowned out by a lot of junk.

Of course I say that when I know I won't be writing one in the next week, but hey!
 

Ill Saint

Member
OpinionatedCyborg said:
Dozens of people were arrested one-by-one for trying to enter Schiavo's hospice and bring bottled water to this woman who can't swallow.
The irony is amazing. If these people actually managed to get to her, and give her water, she'd likely choke to death.

What really pisses me off, is that I live in Australia and still can't escape this Schiavo bollocks!
 

MetatronM

Unconfirmed Member
Cases like Schiavo's are not uncommon, and are disposed of much easier in Texas. When President Bush was Governor there, he signed into law measures that allow the hospital to pull the plug -- even against the family's wishes -- if the family can't pay for the patient's care.
Is this true? And if so, how the FUCK has nobody else ever called Bush out on this? "Err on the side of life," my ass.
 

DaMan121

Member
Is this true? And if so, how the FUCK has nobody else ever called Bush out on this? "Err on the side of life," my ass.

Yep, first instance of the law taking effect was last week when a baby was "unplugged" against her mothers wishes... As for the article - emotional appeals, and ad homs. Knew the article was going to stink when they called Terri disabled.
 
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