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Terrorists have 350 tons of high explosives thanks to the Bush Admin. poor planning

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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
The terrorists only have to be right once, we have to be right all of the time.

Nice talking point from the "Hope campaign" with the subtitle "we are all going to die!!!!".

You know what is the logical followup of a claim like that ? It's "we are fucked".

I am not saying that fighting against terrorism is bad: FAR from it. Islamic estremism is a global menace: a menace we Europeans had to face several times during our history. The issue with me is the false hope that the promise of 100% security can be achieved and thus it justifies any means towards such a goal.
 
The issue with me is the false hope that the promise of 100% security can be achieved and thus it justifies any means towards such a goal.

Good point. Though I would rather have our country making the decisions on what is justified for our safety than the U.N.
 

Makura

Member
xsarien said:
Tell me how your mind can possibly comprehend - and see no problem with - declaring war on a tactic. A "War on Terror" needs to be as figurative as what you're fighting, and that's done with brains, not brawn.

It's just semantics. The U.S. hasn't declared war on terrorism as a tactic in general irregardless of who employs it. When Bush and others refer to the War on Terror they're referring to our war on Islamic extremists, whose tactic of choice is terrorism.
 

xsarien

daedsiluap
Makura said:
It's just semantics. The U.S. hasn't declared war on terrorism as a tactic in general irregardless of who employs it. When Bush and others refer to the War on Terror they're referring to our war on Islamic extremists, whose tactic of choice is terrorism.

So it is a war on religion? Because the war should just be on "extremists," or are you forgetting who blew up that government building in Oklahoma City?
 

MadOdorMachine

No additional functions
You know it's pretty sad when you can't even trust the news that's reported. The fact that CBS was going to air this before Bush had a chance to make a rebuttal is disgusting. It shows just how bias the media is. I can't believe they don't hold themselves to higher standards.
 

Nerevar

they call me "Man Gravy".
Makura said:
It's just semantics. The U.S. hasn't declared war on terrorism as a tactic in general irregardless of who employs it. When Bush and others refer to the War on Terror they're referring to our war on Islamic extremists, whose tactic of choice is terrorism.

Then please answer my question of why the fuck we attacked Iraq. Because making snide comments without an argument only demonstrates your complete lack of understanding of the politics of Iraq under Saddam Hussein.
 

lachesis

Member
To be honest, I don't really believe News Media, especially TV, they don't have hidden agenda. All they care about is "rating", nothing more, nothing less - and if there's any agenda, it's their dominance in ratings. If the story sells (good or bad), then they'll stick to it no matter what. And you can blame FoxNews for that matter. ;)

And... how come everyone think terrorist=extreme islamic? Whatever happened extreme catholics?

lachesis
 

Keio

For a Finer World
To update the situation:
BBC said:
Meanwhile, some US media reports have queried if the theft happened before US troops arrived at the base at al-Qaqaa.

NBC television reported that one of its correspondents was embedded with the 101st Airborne Division which temporarily took control of the base on 10 April 2003 but did not find any of the explosives.

However, other US outlets, including NBC's own news website, quoted Pentagon officials who said a search of the site after the US-led invasion had revealed the explosives to be intact.
And anyway - numerous experts have said that probably the explosives were camouflaged to nearby fields when the bombing started to avoid giving the attack prime targets. So yes, they might have easily been moved nearby where the embedded journalist missed them - all this contrary evidence just makes it easy to miss the main point.

Which is: 350 000 kilos e.g. about 750 000 pounds of high grade military explosive has ended up in the wrong hands due to the invasion of Iraq. The world is a safer place!
 

Xenon

Member
extreme catholics?


Sounds like something on x-games.


"Now watch as he holds the handstand on the Virgin Mary with one hand while handling the rosery in the other. That takes a lot of upperbody stregnth as well as a strong soul. I think he might get 20 hails in there."
 

Phoenix

Member
Xenon said:
Sounds like something on x-games.


"Now watch as holds the handstand on the Virgin Mary with one hand while handling the rosery in the other. That takes a lot of upperbody stregnth as well as a strong soul. I think he might get 20 hails in there."

Straight to hell :D
 
Makura said:
I wasn't referring to that but we can discuss it if you'd like. I was referring to your disingenuous (IMO), notion that Iraq was some huge departure from the war on terror and getting rid of a madman makes the world less safe.

You can't just look at one single thing. One less madman? On its own, good. But toss in hundreds of billions of dollars cost, stretching our armed forces thin, leaving much of Iraq in disarray, and having much of Iraq's weaponry go willy-nilly whether it was before the US forces could check on them or not... hell yes the world is less safe.

MadOdorMachine said:
The fact that CBS was going to air this before Bush had a chance to make a rebuttal is disgusting. It shows just how bias the media is.
Totally. I hate news reports that don't have adequate spin.

Banjo Tango said:
Or is the IAEA saying that the materials were stolen AFTER the troops showed up?
I believe it's the Iraqi government saying as much in a letter to the IAEA. Different nameless government sources say different things though. Some say the troops confirmed the weapons were there, others say the exact opposite. Of course, if the sources saying the explosives weren't found there are right... why does the government say they only learned of this in the last month?
 

Loki

Count of Concision
Banjo Tango said:
Isn't this in line with the IAEAs' claims? That between the time the IAEA left and the US forces arrived at the site, the materials were stolen?

Or is the IAEA saying that the materials were stolen AFTER the troops showed up?

Edit: Here's an article that goes into more detail.

I initially read this as "IKEA"-- I said to myself, "what business does a furniture store have with international politics?" I swear, my mind is slowly going...:D
 
Loki said:
I initially read this as "IKEA"-- I said to myself, "what business does a furniture store have with international politics?" I swear, my mind is slowly going...:D

most IKEA furniture is made of high grade explosives.....
 
MadOdorMachine said:
You know it's pretty sad when you can't even trust the news that's reported. The fact that CBS was going to air this before Bush had a chance to make a rebuttal is disgusting. It shows just how bias the media is. I can't believe they don't hold themselves to higher standards.

Whoa! The media can't broadcast new information without waiting for the President! BTW, how do you know that they didn't try to contact government representatives for their side of the story?
 

Xenon

Member
20020316.jpg
 

shoplifter

Member
shit--->fan if true.

GERTZ // THURSDAY // WASH TIMES: Russian special forces troops moved many of Saddam Hussein's weapons and related goods out of Iraq and into Syria in the weeks before the March 2003 U.S. military operation, The Washington Times has learned. John A. Shaw, the deputy undersecretary of defense for international technology security, said in an interview that he believes the Russian troops, working with Iraqi intelligence, “almost certainly” removed the high-explosive material that went missing from the Al-Qaqaa facility, south of Baghdad.
 

shoplifter

Member
full article

http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20041027-101153-4822r.htm

Russia tied to Iraq's missing arms


By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES


Russian special forces troops moved many of Saddam Hussein's weapons and related goods out of Iraq and into Syria in the weeks before the March 2003 U.S. military operation, The Washington Times has learned.

John A. Shaw, the deputy undersecretary of defense for international technology security, said in an interview that he believes the Russian troops, working with Iraqi intelligence, "almost certainly" removed the high-explosive material that went missing from the Al-Qaqaa facility, south of Baghdad.

"The Russians brought in, just before the war got started, a whole series of military units," Mr. Shaw said. "Their main job was to shred all evidence of any of the contractual arrangements they had with the Iraqis. The others were transportation units."

Mr. Shaw, who was in charge of cataloguing the tons of conventional arms provided to Iraq by foreign suppliers, said he recently obtained reliable information on the arms-dispersal program from two European intelligence services that have detailed knowledge of the Russian-Iraqi weapons collaboration.

Most of Saddam's most powerful arms were systematically separated from other arms like mortars, bombs and rockets, and sent to Syria and Lebanon, and possibly to Iran, he said.

The Russian involvement in helping disperse Saddam's weapons, including some 380 tons of RDX and HMX is still being investigated, Mr. Shaw said.

The RDX and HMX, which are used to manufacture high-explosive and nuclear weapons, are probably of Russian origin, he said.

Pentagon spokesman Larry DiRita could not be reached for comment.

The disappearance of the material was reported in a letter Oct. 10 from the Iraqi government to the International Atomic Energy Agency.

Disclosure of the missing explosives Monday in a New York Times story was used by the Democratic presidential campaign of Sen. John Kerry, who accused the Bush administration of failing to secure the material.

Al-Qaqaa, a known Iraqi weapons site, was monitored closely, Mr. Shaw said.

"That was such a pivotal location, Number 1, that the mere fact of [special explosives] disappearing was impossible," Mr. Shaw said. "And Number 2, if the stuff disappeared, it had to have gone before we got there."

The Pentagon disclosed yesterday that the Al-Qaqaa facility was defended by Fedayeen Saddam, Special Republican Guard and other Iraqi military units during the conflict. U.S. forces defeated the defenders around April 3 and found the gates to the facility open, the Pentagon said in a statement yesterday.

A military unit in charge of searching for weapons, the Army's 75th Exploitation Task Force, then inspected Al-Qaqaa on May 8, May 11 and May 27, 2003, and found no high explosives that had been monitored in the past by the IAEA.

The Pentagon said there was no evidence of large-scale movement of explosives from the facility after April 6.

"The movement of 377 tons of heavy ordnance would have required dozens of heavy trucks and equipment moving along the same roadways as U.S. combat divisions occupied continually for weeks prior to and subsequent to the 3rd Infantry Division's arrival at the facility," the statement said.

The statement also said that the material may have been removed from the site by Saddam's regime.

According to the Pentagon, U.N. arms inspectors sealed the explosives at Al-Qaqaa in January 2003 and revisited the site in March and noted that the seals were not broken.

It is not known if the inspectors saw the explosives in March. The U.N. team left the
country before the U.S.-led invasion began March 20, 2003.

A second defense official said documents on the Russian support to Iraq reveal that Saddam's government paid the Kremlin for the special forces to provide security for Iraq's Russian arms and to conduct counterintelligence activities designed to prevent U.S. and Western intelligence services from learning about the arms pipeline through Syria.

The Russian arms-removal program was initiated after Yevgeny Primakov, the former Russian intelligence chief, could not convince Saddam to give in to U.S. and Western demands, this official said.

A small portion of Iraq's 650,000 tons to 1 million tons of conventional arms that were found after the war were looted after the U.S.-led invasion, Mr. Shaw said. Russia was Iraq's largest foreign supplier of weaponry, he said.

However, the most important and useful arms and explosives appear to have been separated and moved out as part of carefully designed program. "The organized effort was done in advance of the conflict," Mr. Shaw said.

The Russian forces were tasked with moving special arms out of the country.

Mr. Shaw said foreign intelligence officials believe the Russians worked with Saddam's Mukhabarat intelligence service to separate out special weapons, including high explosives and other arms and related technology, from standard conventional arms spread out in some 200 arms depots.

The Russian weapons were then sent out of the country to Syria, and possibly Lebanon in Russian trucks, Mr. Shaw said.

Mr. Shaw said he believes that the withdrawal of Russian-made weapons and
explosives from Iraq was part of plan by Saddam to set up a "redoubt" in Syria that could be used as a base for launching pro-Saddam insurgency operations in Iraq.

The Russian units were dispatched beginning in January 2003 and by March had destroyed hundreds of pages of documents on Russian arms supplies to Iraq while dispersing arms to Syria, the second official said.

Besides their own weapons, the Russians were supplying Saddam with arms made in Ukraine, Belarus, Bulgaria and other Eastern European nations, he said.

"Whatever was not buried was put on lorries and sent to the Syrian border," the defense official said.

Documents reviewed by the official included itineraries of military units involved in the truck shipments to Syria. The materials outlined in the documents included missile components, MiG jet parts, tank parts and chemicals used to make chemical weapons, the official said.

The director of the Iraqi government front company known as the Al Bashair Trading Co. fled to Syria, where he is in charge of monitoring arms holdings and funding Iraqi insurgent activities, the official said.

Also, an Arabic-language report obtained by U.S. intelligence disclosed the extent of Russian armaments. The 26-page report was written by Abdul Tawab Mullah al Huwaysh, Saddam's minister of military industrialization, who was captured by U.S. forces May 2, 2003.

The Russian "spetsnaz" or special-operations forces were under the GRU military intelligence service and organized large commercial truck convoys for the weapons removal, the official said.

Regarding the explosives, the new Iraqi government reported that 194.7 metric tons of HMX, or high-melting-point explosive, and 141.2 metric tons of RDX, or rapid-detonation explosive, and 5.8 metric tons of PETN, or pentaerythritol tetranitrate, were missing.

The material is used in nuclear weapons and also in making military "plastic" high explosive.

Defense officials said the Russians can provide information on what happened to the Iraqi weapons and explosives that were transported out of the country. Officials believe the Russians also can explain what happened to Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs.
 

Ripclawe

Banned
Well.. No one knows what the hell is going on.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=204304&page=1

Oct. 27, 2004 — Iraqi officials may be overstating the amount of explosives reported to have disappeared from a weapons depot, documents obtained by ABC News show.





The Iraqi interim government has told the United States and international weapons inspectors that 377 tons of conventional explosives are missing from the Al-Qaqaa installation, which was supposed to be under U.S. military control.


But International Atomic Energy Agency documents obtained by ABC News and first reported on "World News Tonight with Peter Jennings" indicate the amount of missing explosives may be substantially less than the Iraqis reported.


The information on which the Iraqi Science Ministry based an Oct. 10 memo in which it reported that 377 tons of RDX explosives were missing — presumably stolen due to a lack of security — was based on "declaration" from July 15, 2002. At that time, the Iraqis said there were 141 tons of RDX explosives at the facility.


But the confidential IAEA documents obtained by ABC News show that on Jan. 14, 2003, the agency's inspectors recorded that just over 3 tons of RDX was stored at the facility — a considerable discrepancy from what the Iraqis reported.


The IAEA documents could mean that 138 tons of explosives were removed from the facility long before the start of the United States launched "Operation Iraqi Freedom" in March 2003.

Another Concern


The IAEA documents from January 2003 found no discrepancy in the amount of the more dangerous HMX explosives thought to be stored at Al-Qaqaa, but they do raise another disturbing possibility.


The documents show IAEA inspectors looked at nine bunkers containing more than 194 tons of HMX at the facility. Although these bunkers were still under IAEA seal, the inspectors said the seals may be potentially ineffective because they had ventilation slats on the sides. These slats could be easily removed to remove the materials inside the bunkers without breaking the seals, the inspectors noted.
 

Tenguman

Member
I'm just saying...

a few days ago everyone was shrugging off the idea that Russia could nuke us in the next few years

seeing how they weren't connected with what our current foreign policy dictates
 
Tenguman said:
I'm just saying...

a few days ago everyone was shrugging off the idea that Russia could nuke us in the next few years

seeing how they weren't connected with what our current foreign policy dictates

Not the same thing as: "john titor was right...."
 

Tenguman

Member
fennec fox said:
Ah, the Rush Limbaugh defense. Tenguman's just an entertainer!
Oh damn, you did NOT just compare me to him!

at any rate, i got a kind message from the admins and i cannot talk about whats-his-face again, so you are all safe from my rantings
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Repost:
Hitokage said:
So, with official investigations all saying that Iraq had shit, it's now the Washington Times who will save the day for all those faithful Bush supporters who just KNEW Iraq had WMDs all along?
 
let's all make this clear:

explosives do not equal WMD.

If that's the case...there are only a handful of countries that DO NOT have wmd.

explosives weren't going to threaten america "within 45 minutes".

There still are no WMD in Iraq...and it is quite clear there never were any. Where is the proof? Colin Powell has already said what he said to the UN was inaccurrate. There is no reason for this war. Hold some crap elections and get the fuck out. If we're lucky maybe the terrorists we have created will have been mininal...although I somehow doubt that considering the tens of thousands of innoncent Iraqis we've killed/wounded and destruction we have caused to the infrastructure...people's homes.

When the fuck did nuclear weapons become explosives? I won't standby while people try to rewrite history.
 

sonicfan

Venerable Member
The Russians were just using their SOP. This, of course, is old news. But there will always be those that deny it.

Russia Hid Saddam's WMD

By Ion Mihai Pacepa

Washington Times | October 2, 2003


On March 20, Russian President Vladimir Putin denounced the U.S.-led "aggression" against Iraq as "unwarranted" and "unjustifiable." Three days later, Pravda said that an anonymous Russian "military expert" was predicting that the United States would fabricate finding Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov immediately started plying the idea abroad, and it has taken hold around the world ever since.

As a former Romanian spy chief who used to take orders from the Soviet KGB, it is perfectly obvious to me that Russia is behind the evanescence of Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction. After all, Russia helped Saddam get his hands on them in the first place. The Soviet Union and all its bloc states always had a standard operating procedure for deep sixing weapons of mass destruction — in Romanian it was codenamed "Sarindar, meaning "emergency exit." I implemented it in Libya. It was for ridding Third World despots of all trace of their chemical weapons if the Western imperialists ever got near them. We wanted to make sure they would never be traced back to us, and we also wanted to frustrate the West by not giving them anything they could make propaganda with.

All chemical weapons were to be immediately burned or buried deep at sea. Technological documentation, however, would be preserved in microfiche buried in waterproof containers for future reconstruction. Chemical weapons, especially those produced in Third World countries, which lack sophisticated production facilities, often do not retain lethal properties after a few months on the shelf and are routinely dumped anyway. And all chemical weapons plants had a civilian cover making detection difficult, regardless of the circumstances.

The plan included an elaborate propaganda routine. Anyone accusing Moammar Gadhafi of possessing chemical weapons would be ridiculed. Lies, all lies! Come to Libya and see! Our Western left-wing organizations, like the World Peace Council, existed for sole purpose of spreading the propaganda we gave them. These very same groups bray the exact same themes to this day. We always relied on their expertise at organizing large street demonstrations in Western Europe over America's "war-mongering" whenever we wanted to distract world attention from the crimes of the vicious regimes we sponsored.

Iraq, in my view, had its own "Sarindar" plan in effect direct from Moscow. It certainly had one in the past. Nicolae Ceausescu told me so, and he heard it from Leonid Brezhnev. KGB chairman Yury Andropov, and later, Gen. Yevgeny Primakov, told me so, too. In the late 1970s, Gen. Primakov ran Saddam's weapons programs. After that, as you may recall, he was promoted to head of the Soviet foreign intelligence service in 1990, to Russia's minister of foreign affairs in 1996, and in 1998, to prime minister. What you may not know is that Primakov hates Israel and has always championed Arab radicalism. He was a personal friend of Saddam's and has repeatedly visited Baghdad after 1991, quietly helping Saddam play his game of hide-and-seek.

The Soviet bloc not only sold Saddam its WMDs, but it showed them how to make them "disappear." Russia is still at it. Primakov was in Baghdad from December until a couple of days before the war, along with a team of Russian military experts led by two of Russia's topnotch "retired"generals: Vladislav Achalov, a former deputy defense minister, and Igor Maltsev, a former air defense chief of staff. They were all there receiving honorary medals from the Iraqi defense minister. They clearly were not there to give Saddam military advice for the upcoming war—Saddam's Katyusha launchers were of World War II vintage, and his T-72 tanks, BMP-1 fighting vehicles and MiG fighter planes were all obviously useless against America. "I did not fly to Baghdad to drink coffee," was what Gen. Achalov told the media afterward. They were there orchestrating Iraq's "Sarindar" plan.

The U.S. military in fact, has already found the only thing that would have been allowed to survive under the classic Soviet "Sarindar" plan to liquidate weapons arsenals in the event of defeat in war — the technological documents showing how to reproduce weapons stocks in just a few weeks.

Such a plan has undoubtedly been in place since August 1995 — when Saddam's son-in-law, Gen. Hussein Kamel, who ran Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological programs for 10 years, defected to Jordan. That August, UNSCOM and International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) inspectors searched a chicken farm owned by Kamel's family and found more than one hundred metal trunks and boxes containing documentation dealing with all categories of weapons, including nuclear. Caught red-handed, Iraq at last admitted to its "extensive biological warfare program, including weaponization," issued a "Full, Final and Complete Disclosure Report" and turned over documents about the nerve agent VX and nuclear weapons.

Saddam then lured Gen. Kamel back, pretending to pardon his defection. Three days later, Kamel and over 40 relatives, including women and children, were murdered, in what the official Iraqi press described as a "spontaneous administration of tribal justice." After sending that message to his cowed, miserable people, Saddam then made a show of cooperation with UN inspection, since Kamel had just compromised all his programs, anyway. In November 1995, he issued a second "Full, Final and Complete Disclosure" as to his supposedly non-existent missile programs. That very same month, Jordan intercepted a large shipment of high-grade missile components destined for Iraq. UNSCOM soon fished similar missile components out of the Tigris River, again refuting Saddam's spluttering denials. In June 1996, Saddam slammed the door shut to UNSCOM's inspection of any "concealment mechanisms." On Aug. 5, 1998, halted cooperation with UNSCOM and the IAEA completely, and they withdrew on Dec. 16, 1998. Saddam had another four years to develop and hide his weapons of mass destruction without any annoying, prying eyes. U.N. Security Council resolutions 1115, (June 21, 1997), 1137 (Nov. 12, 1997), and 1194 (Sept. 9, 1998) were issued condemning Iraq—ineffectual words that had no effect. In 2002, under the pressure of a huge U.S. military buildup by a new U.S. administration, Saddam made yet another "Full, Final and Complete Disclosure," which was found to contain "false statements" and to constitute another "material breach" of U.N. and IAEA inspection and of paragraphs eight to 13 of resolution 687 (1991).

It was just a few days after this last "Disclosure," after a decade of intervening with the U.N. and the rest of the world on Iraq's behalf, that Gen. Primakov and his team of military experts landed in Baghdad — even though, with 200,000 U.S. troops at the border, war was imminent, and Moscow could no longer save Saddam Hussein. Gen. Primakov was undoubtedly cleaning up the loose ends of the "Sarindar" plan and assuring Saddam that Moscow would rebuild his weapons of mass destruction after the storm subsided for a good price.

Mr. Putin likes to take shots at America and wants to reassert Russia in world affairs. Why would he not take advantage of this opportunity? As minister of foreign affairs and prime minister, Gen. Primakov has authored the "multipolarity" strategy of counterbalancing American leadership by elevating Russia to great-power status in Eurasia. Between Feb. 9-12, Mr. Putin visited Germany and France to propose a three-power tactical alignment against the United States to advocate further inspections rather than war. On Feb. 21, the Russian Duma appealed to the German and French parliaments to join them on March 4-7 in Baghdad, for "preventing U.S. military aggression against Iraq." Crowds of European leftists, steeped for generations in left-wing propaganda straight out of Moscow, continue to find the line appealing.

Mr. Putin's tactics have worked. The United States won a brilliant military victory, demolishing a dictatorship without destroying the country, but it has begun losing the peace. While American troops unveiled the mass graves of Saddam's victims, anti-American forces in Western Europe and elsewhere, spewed out vitriolic attacks, accusing Washington of greed for oil and not of really caring about weapons of mass destruction, or exaggerating their risks, as if weapons of mass destruction were really nothing very much to worry about after all.

It is worth remembering that Andrei Sakharov, the father of the Soviet hydrogen bomb, chose to live in a Soviet gulag instead of continuing to develop the power of death. "I wanted to alert the world," Sakharov explained in 1968, "to the grave perils threatening the human race thermonuclear extinction, ecological catastrophe, famine." Even Igor Kurchatov, the KGB academician who headed the Soviet nuclear program from 1943 until his death in 1960, expressed deep qualms of conscience about helping to create weapons of mass destruction. "The rate of growth of atomic explosives is such," he warned in an article written together with several other Soviet nuclear scientists not long before he died, "that in just a few years the stockpile will be large enough to create conditions under which the existence of life on earth will be impossible."

The Cold War was fought over the reluctance to use weapons of mass destruction, yet now this logic is something only senior citizens seem to recall. Today, even lunatic regimes like that in North Korea not only possess weapons of mass destruction, but openly offer to sell them to anyone with cash, including terrorists and their state sponsors. Is anyone paying any attention? Being inured to proliferation, however, does not reduce its danger. On the contrary, it increases it.

General Ion Mihai Pacepa is the highest-ranking intelligence officer ever to have defected from the former Soviet bloc. He is currently finishing a new book, Red Roots: The Origins of Today's Anti-Americanism.
 

Ripclawe

Banned
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Oct2004/n10272004_2004102710.html

Officials Say Chances of Enemy Ordnance Move Nearly Nil
By Jim Garamone
American Forces Press Service

WASHINGTON, Oct. 27, 2004 – The chances that enemy forces moved 377 tons of heavy ordnance out of the Al Qaqaa arms facility after U.S. forces arrived in the area are nearly impossible, said Army Col. David Perkins, who commanded the American troops who took the area during major combat operations in Iraq in 2003.

Perkins commanded 2nd Brigade of the 3rd Infantry Division. A unit under his command, the 3rd Battalion, 15th Infantry, entered the depot on April 3, 2003, and defeated the enemy forces there in a two-day battle.

The U.N.'s International Atomic Energy Agency had tagged the explosives at the site and departed before hostilities started. On May 27, 2003, experts with the 75th Exploitation Task Force confirmed the IAEA-sealed explosives were missing.

Perkins, now assigned to the Joint Staff, said it is "highly improbable" that the enemy was able to take the explosives out any time after U.S. forces arrived in the area. It would require "that the enemy sneaks a convoy of 10-ton trucks in and loads them up in the dark of night and infiltrates them in your convoy and moves out," he said. "That's kind of a stretch too far."
 

SKluck

Banned
WMD were never at that site, just a bunch of (high grade) explosives. Still doesn't mean they had WMD, though it does lead to the possibility that this has happened at other sites.
 

Nerevar

they call me "Man Gravy".
whoa, if the Russians really did move it, I didn't see that coming. Not cool, but not surprising either - you can't ever really trust someone you were essentially at war with for 50 years. But this makes me wonder, if most European intelligence agencies knew about this, how come the CIA didn't?? Seriously, I'm starting to wonder if the US intelligence agencies are the worst in the developed world.
 
If all this turns out to be true, then Bush might just have the election in his hands if he gets the news out about this quickly. Kerry on the other hand...after investing so much talk into promising to secure allies for Iraq, the same allies who received billions from Saddam in bribes, will be in a very, very bad situation.

I wonder if this week can get anymore interesting?
 
The plot thickens. For those who didn't read The Times this morning, sample...

4 Iraqis Tell of Looting at Munitions Site in '03
By JAMES GLANZ and JIM DWYER

Published: October 28, 2004
BAGHDAD, Iraq, Oct. 27 - Looters stormed the weapons site at Al Qaqaa in the days after American troops swept through the area in early April 2003 on their way to Baghdad, gutting office buildings, carrying off munitions and even dismantling heavy machinery, three Iraqi witnesses and a regional security chief said Wednesday.

There's much more to the story, check it out.

And I haven't heard a thing about this Russian theory anywhere yet besides this message board. Not a lick of it on the mainstream media. Don't know what that means though...



*Noel Coward Parody
 

sonicfan

Venerable Member
N Coward Parody said:
The plot thickens. For those who didn't read The Times this morning, sample...



There's much more to the story, check it out.

And I haven't heard a thing about this Russian theory anywhere yet besides this message board. Not a lick of it on the mainstream media. Don't know what that means though...



*Noel Coward Parody

Russians 'took Iraqi explosives'



Russians ‘may have taken Iraq explosives’



Russia tied to Iraq's missing arms

Of course, the ruskies deny it, as anybody with a brain knows they would.

Russia not involved in explosive disappearance in Iraq
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
sonicfan said:
The Washington Times is the strongly right-wing biased newspaper owned by Rev. Moon, and have a documented history of not reporting accurately(not dismissing it out of hand here). So it makes me wonder when the story is exclusive to them.
 

Alcibiades

Member
Hitokage said:
The Washington Times is the strongly right-wing biased newspaper owned by Rev. Moon, and have a documented history of not reporting accurately. So it makes me wonder when the story is exlcusive to them.
same thing with CBS and New York Times...

strongly left-wing new organizations owned and run by liberal people, and history of not reportin accurately...
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
efralope said:
same thing with CBS and New York Times...

strongly left-wing new organizations owned and run by liberal people, and history of not reportin accurately...
Wrong. The New York Times cannot be claimed to be reliably liberal, while the Washington Times can be claimed to reliably right-wing. Ever heard of David Brock, by any chance?
 
just because a paper(NYT) decides to report some hard-hitting stories instead of the usual talking points given to them by the campaings doesn't mean they're LIBERAL.
 
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