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[Syriel]

Thought this was a good article in how it highlights the "positive bias" present in society. It's not so much that people discriminate in a negative fashion against others, as that they are more willing to "bend the rules" for those perceived to be "like them." And many may be doing it unconsciously.

As they describe in two working papers, Redzo Mujcic and Paul Frijters, economists at the University of Queensland, trained and assigned 29 young adult testers (from both genders and different ethnic groups) to board public buses in Brisbane and insert an empty fare card into the bus scanner. After the scanner made a loud sound informing the driver that the card did not have enough value, the testers said, “I do not have any money, but I need to get to” a station about 1.2 miles away. (The station varied according to where the testers boarded.)

With more than 1,500 observations, the study uncovered substantial, statistically significant race discrimination. Bus drivers were twice as willing to let white testers ride free as black testers (72 percent versus 36 percent of the time). Bus drivers showed some relative favoritism toward testers who shared their own race, but even black drivers still favored white testers over black testers (allowing free rides 83 percent versus 68 percent of the time).

The study also found that racial disparities persisted when the testers wore business attire or dressed in army uniforms. For example, testers wearing army uniforms were allowed to ride free 97 percent of the time if they were white, but only 77 percent of the time if they were black.

The bus study underscores this point. Drivers were more likely to let testers ride free when there were fewer people on the bus to observe the transaction. And the drivers themselves were probably not aware that they were treating minorities differently. When drivers, in a questionnaire conducted after the field test, were shown photographs of the testers and asked how they would respond, hypothetically, to a free-ride request, they indicated no statistically significant bias against minorities in the photos (86 percent said they would let the black individual ride free).

Article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/24/opinion/research-shows-white-privilege-is-real.html

Paper 1:
http://ftp.iza.org/dp7300.pdf

Paper 2:
http://islandia.law.yale.edu/ayres/mujcic_frijters_busDec2014.pdf

 

[Jaymenardd]

First of all, I don't know what positive bias is so if you would explain that to me it would be wonderful. Second, I understand what you're saying that people are willing to "bend the rules" unconsciously but the bending of the rules is definitely an example of white privilege is it not? And while we're on the subject, being "like them" clearly has nothing to do with it since the black drivers were just as willing to bend the rules as the white drivers. But even thinking subconscious thoughts something along the lines as "oh he's like me so I'll let him ride for free" and the only difference between the people are their skin color seems.... I don't know.... racist as fuck...? It obviously works both ways, but it's still racist non the less.

 

[Syriel]

First of all, I don't know what positive bias is so if you would explain that to me it would be wonderful. Second, I understand what you're saying that people are willing to "bend the rules" unconsciously but the bending of the rules is definitely an example of white privilege is it not? And while we're on the subject, being "like them" clearly has nothing to do with it since the black drivers were just as willing to bend the rules as the white drivers. But even thinking subconscious thoughts something along the lines as "oh he's like me so I'll let him ride for free" and the only difference between the people are their skin color seems.... I don't know.... racist as fuck...? It obviously works both ways, but it's still racist non the less.

It's the fact that people aren't realizing that what they're doing is discriminating, even though they're doing it.

Yes, it is an example of white privilege. Yes it is racist.

That's kind of the point of the whole study. Calling this out.

 

[archangelmorph]

What a solid, comprehensive study.

Yeah I get the part about black drivers letting white passengers on though. There are pretty large scale stereotypes and stigmas associated with specific ethnic groups that even members of said ethnic groups are indoctrinated into.

It's pretty sad. Also nice to see this highlight how pervasive these attitudes are since it's not a U.S. based study, they seem to get the most stick around the subject these days.

 

[MWS Natural]

What does white privilege mean today? In part, it means to live in the world while being given the benefit of the doubt. Have you ever been able to return a sweater without a receipt? Has an employee ever let you into a store after closing time? Did a car dealership take a little extra off the sticker price when you asked? When’s the last time you received service with a smile?

I've seen this on GAF so many times...no matter what the situation is white people are ALWAYS giving the benefit of the doubt. No matter if there is video or blatant evidence there are always more facts to wait for.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I thought for a moment they would be asleep

 

[vwnut13]

I thought for a moment they would be asleep

If my bus driver was unconscious, I would splash a glass of water in his face.

 

[Stereogatari]

I wonder how females specifically fare in this study?

 

[Kurita]

Why are bus drivers even allowing people to get in for free in the first place?

 

[Log4Girlz]

If my bus driver was unconscious, I would splash a glass of water in his face.

You goddamn spigot

 

[dokish]

First of all, I don't know what positive bias is so if you would explain that to me it would be wonderful. Second, I understand what you're saying that people are willing to "bend the rules" unconsciously but the bending of the rules is definitely an example of white privilege is it not? And while we're on the subject, being "like them" clearly has nothing to do with it since the black drivers were just as willing to bend the rules as the white drivers. But even thinking subconscious thoughts something along the lines as "oh he's like me so I'll let him ride for free" and the only difference between the people are their skin color seems.... I don't know.... racist as fuck...? It obviously works both ways, but it's still racist non the less.

What. I have no idea what you're saying.

 

[Joni]

Why are bus drivers even allowing people to get in for free in the first place?

Because they're kind people and sometimes somebody really forgets his money.

 

[Dabanton]

Why are bus drivers even allowing people to get in for free in the first place?

Sometimes they do it so that person doesn't hold up the line. Especially if it's at a busy stop. As the bus is on a schedule.

But again it depends on the driver.

 

[squidyj]

Why are bus drivers even allowing people to get in for free in the first place?

why did a cop let me off with a warning for getting on the train without a ticket?

 

[CrunchyB]

I wonder how females specifically fare in this study?

Pretty girls can get away with murder. Sometimes literally.

 

[devilhawk]

Though I doubt it would change the findings, I do wonder how they controlled for things like number of people getting on behind them and other variables that do change the odds of a free ride.

I know that here in Seattle where we have electronic card readers and cash receivers, I have seen many of times where a rider swipes his card, it shows no balance, the rider attempts to take out cash but the driver just says move along because there are 10 people behind them. So when you are getting on is definitely important.

Edit: I suppose they did mention the busyness of the bus. Which isn't exactly the same as number of people getting on, but probably similar in results.

 

[Marky Mark]

I haven't read the full article yet (I will soon) but it'll be interesting to see how they define black. I'd be interested to see the breakdown (if there is any) between Aboriginal, African, Islander, etc., etc.

Also, as for the black drivers not letting black passengers ride for free I can envision some of them not wanting other passengers to think "typical!" as s/he lets someone of same colour ride for free, as if they're on a team.

 

[Tim the Wiz]

I haven't read the full article yet (I will soon) but it'll be interesting to see how they define black. I'd be interested to see the breakdown (if there is any) between Aboriginal, African, Islander, etc., etc.

Also, as for the black drivers not letting black passengers ride for free I can envision some of them not wanting other passengers to think "typical!" as s/he lets someone of same colour ride for free, as if they're on a team.

And, y'know, internalized racism.

 

[Marky Mark]

I'm not disputing the latent racism, just offering another posibility. I live in Australia and am Aboriginal myself on my Mum's side (hence the curiousity re: black demographic posed above) so I know how racist Australia can be lol

 

[enanogrande]

When drivers, in a questionnaire conducted after the field test, were shown photographs of the testers and asked how they would respond, hypothetically, to a free-ride request, they indicated no statistically significant bias against minorities in the photos (86 percent said they would let the black individual ride free).

This part is confusing. Why would they answer differently in the questionnaire as opposed to a real life situation? I could understand if in the questionnaire they denied most riders (I'm assuming they're discouraged from doing such things by the Transit Authority, so they wouldn't admit to it), but the fact that it goes up is a bit weird to me.

 

[CrunchyB]

This part is confusing. Why would they answer differently in the questionnaire as opposed to a real life situation?

It's probably because the human brain is highly irrational.

Similar things happen with election polls. When asked beforehand, people say they'll vote for one candidate, but when they're actually put on the spot they'll vote for someone else. There's isn't necessarily any logic to it.

 

[Zukuu]

Why let anyone ride for free tho? I mean, I can see it in cases of emergency, but aren't you a bad employee if you let 75%+ ride for free?!

 

[Joni]

This part is confusing. Why would they answer differently in the questionnaire as opposed to a real life situation? I could understand if in the questionnaire they denied most riders (I'm assuming they're discouraged from doing such things by the Transit Authority, so they wouldn't admit to it), but the fact that it goes up is a bit weird to me.

I think because they knew it was a test. I can't say no to the black guy if I say yes to the white guy. You're really thinking about it as a test. You know you're being judged so you think more clearly about it. On the other hand, if someone gets on your bus, you don't know that you're being tested. You're judging this one person and race plays a part in it without you knowing it.

 

[enanogrande]

It's probably because the human brain is highly irrational.

Similar things happen with election polls. When asked beforehand, people say they'll vote for one candidate, but when they're actually put on the spot they'll vote for someone else. There's isn't necessarily any logic to it.

Yeah, I guess. I have heard of that election poll example, something similar may be going on here. The other explanation may be that drivers saw something in the way the individual testers acted that put them off, but from the article it seems they kept all interactions as similar as possible to reduce that kind of thing.

Like you said, it must just be a quirk of the human mind.

I think because they knew it was a test. I can't say no to the black guy if I say yes to the white guy. You're really thinking about it as a test. You know you're being judged so you think more clearly about it. On the other hand, if someone gets on your bus, you don't know that you're being tested. You're judging this one person and race plays a part in it without you knowing it.

This is possible too, but in that case I would expect them to deny almost everyone (again, assuming free rides are discouraged by the Transit Authority). You're right though, if they thought they were being judged it's understandable the results might be skewed a bit.

 

[Ikael]

Very interesting study, but this is the part that I found most profound:

Comparing the acceptance rates across the two main treatments, we find that the average level amongst blacks increases from 36% to 67% while wearing a business suit and carrying a briefcase, a difference that is significant at the 1% level. A similar increase is seen amongst Indians, from 51% to 83%, whilst Asians experience a slight and insignificant drop from 73% to 69%, and whites observe their acceptance rate to increase from 72% to 93%. (...) The results in column (2) of Table 6 imply that the initial black white acceptance gap of 0.48 does not change when black testers are dressed in business attire, with the estimated coefficient on High Income*Black Tester being insignificant at conventional levels. However, this point estimate does become statistically significant in the richer specification (final column), suggesting the racial bias toward blacks to be reduced by 21 percentage points, a finding that is consistent with the descriptive results.

Wealth (or more accurately, its perception) seems to be at the very heart of racial attitudes and stereotypes. There's a component of class warfare in racial relationships that tends to be wrongly ignored, me thinks, as it tends to be the biggest contributor in order to bridge the perception gap, even if it persist aftwerwards.

This part is confusing. Why would they answer differently in the questionnaire as opposed to a real life situation? I could understand if in the questionnaire they denied most riders (I'm assuming they're discouraged from doing such things by the Transit Authority, so they wouldn't admit to it), but the fact that it goes up is a bit weird to me.

Because people act differently "in the heat of the moment", which is when subsconscious attitudes arise, than when thinking on abstract terms removed from the situation itself.

 

[Joni]

This is possible too, but in that case I would expect them to deny almost everyone (again, assuming free rides are discouraged by the Transit Authority). You're right though, if they thought they were being judged it's understandable the results might be skewed a bit.

You're also assuming the Transit Authority would see those results with a name attached to them.

 

[Izuna]

UK drivers used to let me and my friend (both mixed raced) on for free, never get in trouble and jump barriers etc. all the time. He wore pants down his hip etc. even.

However many times, especially when they introduced no more money on busses, white brehs (especially girls) were ALWAYS turned away when they forgot their pass or whatever, this was in Chelsea. (I probably helped a dozen kids get on around that time). Even in college, I think the only time in memory a friend of mine wasn't allowed past because they forgot was a white kid.

Decided to test for myself, and I still get a free pass these days. I think accent has to do with it haha.

My point is that minority or otherwise, the Bus driver is human too and will choose to let people on depending on their own mood, accent, things like that. I keep hearing how provident racism is in the US, but I don't think it's quite as serious in this scenario.

--

Racial profiling does exist, but we didn't need a study to prove it exists. This kind of racial profiling causes a big issue too. If you live in a world where the other people get a free pass on everything, it makes you think "what's the point". That becomes a cycle.

"What would you do" TV series is better when they make people feel like dicks when they ask them why they made the choice they did. Like that episode where 3 people were stealing a bike, a white kid, a black kid and a woman. It turned out as you expected.

EDIT: I think if you could get statistics about people's personal choices in things like this, you would just find data that wouldn't surprise anyone.

 

[theignoramus]

No surprises at all from this study and it only reaffirms what's been shown over and over in less academic social experiments, like ABC's " What Would You Do", that infamous Primetime investigation from Diane Sawyer, or the dozens of more recent studies that document implicit bias against blacks. Also interesting that while being a well dressed black can help you out a bit as far as the public perception of you, it doesnt make you anything close to immune from racial bias.

 

[User 73706]

why did a cop let me off with a warning for getting on the train without a ticket?

Why did I lose a solid third of the front of my car in a wreck leaving me without a right blinker without ever getting pulled over for it?

 

[Aarglefarg]

A few months ago, I heard a bus driver tell a black man who didn't 'touch on' his transport card: "you look like you're a professional freeloader".

She calls out everyone who doesn't touch on and gets nasty for non-issues, but the nature of the response stood out.

 

[Izuna]

A few months ago, I heard a bus driver tell a black man who didn't 'touch on' his transport card: "you look like you're a professional freeloader".

She calls out everyone who doesn't touch on and gets nasty for non-issues, but the nature of the response stood out.

? I don't understand, that's hilarious. Was he wearing a suit?

Also do you have the same driver for this bus on a frequent basis? How do you know she usually calls people out on it? If this is UK, they have cameras now.

 

[Hero Prinny]

Pretty girls can get away with murder. Sometimes literally.

if i was a bus driver I wouldn't allow a pretty girl in for free just out of spite. the world is good enough to you as it it,go put money in your damn metro. >_>

 

[Slayven]

These studies are more for white people than minorities.

 

[Izuna]

if i was a bus driver I wouldn't allow a pretty girl in for free just out of spite. the world is good enough to you as it it,go put money in your damn metro. >_>

Holy shit.

 

[esms]

These studies are more for white people than minorities.

I'm beginning to think that.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

Why let people on for free?
They didn't account for busyness!
I don't get this it makes no sense ... hat's positive bias?
Why would the bus driver's test vary from actual field tests?!

Neogaf.com

 

[JCX]

I wonder if people who react naively to these studies are terrified of the implication that we do not fully control our brains as much as we think. There a plenty of studies showing unconscious biases in favor of certain people based on height/weight/race/gender/sexual orientation etc.

That's why it's so important to fix the issues at the root - in media and other areas where people form these unconscious biases.

 

[John Kowalski]

if i was a bus driver I wouldn't allow a pretty girl in for free just out of spite. the world is good enough to you as it it,go put money in your damn metro. >_>

lol, definitely didn't expect to see this in this thread

 

[ItIsOkBro]

Though I doubt it would change the findings, I do wonder how they controlled for things like number of people getting on behind them and other variables that do change the odds of a free ride.

I know that here in Seattle where we have electronic card readers and cash receivers, I have seen many of times where a rider swipes his card, it shows no balance, the rider attempts to take out cash but the driver just says move along because there are 10 people behind them. So when you are getting on is definitely important.

Edit: I suppose they did mention the busyness of the bus. Which isn't exactly the same as number of people getting on, but probably similar in results.

Unless white people get on the bus more often when it's busy...all this variability should average out over 1500 observations.

 

[Deified Data]

Edited for stupidity.

 

[Africanus]

Sad but expected. Racism prevails even in benevolent acts.

 

[Crayons]

Shit, I guess the only force stronger than military worship in America is racism.

Yeah, Brisbane is one of the most racist cities in America

 

[pj]

Shit, I guess the only force stronger than military worship in America is racism.

Mmmmm. It's so delicious when people say stupid shit like this. I bet there will be 5 quotes of you by the time I hit Submit Reply

 

[Slayven]

Mmmmm. It's so delicious when people say stupid shit like this. I bet there will be 5 quotes of you by the time I hit Submit Reply

He is a Natural's Law Award recipient.

Also shows how people think racism is only an American problem.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Yeah, Brisbane is one of the most racist cities in America

They need to secede.

 

[Hero Prinny]

Holy shit.

lol, definitely didn't expect to see this in this thread

lmfaoooo. im so serious too, haha. I'm not gonna lie, i can be spiteful as shit sometimes :3

 

[Dreams-Visions]

What does white privilege mean today? In part, it means to live in the world while being given the benefit of the doubt. Have you ever been able to return a sweater without a receipt? Has an employee ever let you into a store after closing time? Did a car dealership take a little extra off the sticker price when you asked? When’s the last time you received service with a smile?

should have been in the OP.

BibleThump

 

[Count Dookkake]

Can't celebrate Black History Month without a bus story.

 

[Guevara]

Here's an anecdotal difference I see as a regular bus rider

> Some people have a bus card, try to use it, are surprised when they see it is out of cash/didn't re-up correctly (it happens)

> Some people board the bus with no intention of paying, don't have a bus card, don't even pretend to pay.

 

[The Technomancer]

Yeah those results are what I expected