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Texture Pop In
- Thread starter Ironclad
- Start date
Seems to be some confusion here.
Texture pop in is where the textures load in after the model has been displayed.
Halo 2 has instances where the 'zone' between a far off polybump model and it's more detailed near-version don't quite synch in quick enough. I guess this is a limiation of technology more then anything....I will imagine with Xenon, PS3 ect the machines will ahve so much memory that multiple detail levels of textures can be stored...so the 'jump won't be as apparant.
One things for sure, the Polybumps sure make a difference to the Covenant. Go back and play Halo 1...they just look flat and lifeless in comparison.
Texture pop in is where the textures load in after the model has been displayed.
Halo 2 has instances where the 'zone' between a far off polybump model and it's more detailed near-version don't quite synch in quick enough. I guess this is a limiation of technology more then anything....I will imagine with Xenon, PS3 ect the machines will ahve so much memory that multiple detail levels of textures can be stored...so the 'jump won't be as apparant.
One things for sure, the Polybumps sure make a difference to the Covenant. Go back and play Halo 1...they just look flat and lifeless in comparison.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
The closer you get to an object the more detailed it gets. It's very very apparent in games like GTA: Vice City, San Andreas, Project Gotham 2, Colin McRae Rally 3, All PS2 WRC games and many others. Halo 1 had this also. Look downwards as you walk and you'll notice the textures of the grass filling in right in front of you. It's a technique used to maintain high frame rates.
I questioned it in the impressions thread because it seems to be the only obvious flaw in a very polished engine.
My point was that it occurs during the cinematics, and it is pretty bad. I was curious how this could happen, I always thought the cinematics were in a controled enviroment, and almost pre rendered in a sense.
My point was that it occurs during the cinematics, and it is pretty bad. I was curious how this could happen, I always thought the cinematics were in a controled enviroment, and almost pre rendered in a sense.
Pimpbaa
Member
I think some of you are confusing level of detail and mip mapping. The sudden change in detail of the models in halo 2 is level of detail (used to maintain framerates). And the grass getting more detailed when it is close to you in halo 1 (and 2) that alphasnake mentioned is mip mapping (which is used to eliminate texture shimmering).
Pimpbaa said:
Well yes, its the high detail poly bump texture coming in, so I guess that falls under LOD.
I dont know the technical term for it, I was just surprised to see so obviously in the cinematics.
If you watched the cinematic for the second level , which was shown on MTV last night, you would have seen it. The weirdest part being the scene where your looking across the back of a scarab, and it just suddenly appears out of nowhere.
AlphaSnake said:
That's LOD and Mip Mapping. Lower Poly models for distance shots, higher poly models for closeup shots. Mip-mapping refers to smaller, less detailed textures utilized for when the camera is the furthest from it, while the most hi-res memory intensive textures are used for close camera shots. Depending on the distance of the camera, the texture is interpolated between the low-res and hi-res shot for mid-distance viewing -- usually more than just two texture samples are used, though.
I'd agree with Cockles about the texture pop-in, where the texture is suddenly loads onto an object when it reaches a certain render point. I think it's the same idea when you have objects that pop-in when they reach a certain distance from the camera, so the machine doesn't have to render so much and they can keep a consistent frame rate.
I think this generation is reaching it's max out limit now. There will still be zowers games, like Tecmos stuff. But from most devs....and probably more true of Xbox given it's PC heritage...what we're seeing now will be as good as it gets. I'd love to see Tecmo do a FPSer though with their graphic engine tech.
Artistic wise I'd say Halo 2 >> Riddick.
Technology wise, Riddick >> Halo 2.
Artistic wise I'd say Halo 2 >> Riddick.
Technology wise, Riddick >> Halo 2.
-=::[Eagle-Vision]::=-
Banned
The LOD issues in the Halo 2 cutscenes are only visible after a scene/camera angle change. It's like it's going too quickly for the Xbox to refresh everything. Very weird, but that's about the only technical flaw of the game.MrparisSM said:
As far as I can tell the cutscenes are also used to copy the next level to the hard drive, so maybe that's the main issue. Copying BIG files quickly + rendering some incredible looking models with full bump mapping and self shadowing could be a bit much for a 4 year old hardware.
-=::[Eagle-Vision]::=- said:
That is definitely not LOD. That's something awfully fucked up. Normally you apply all kind of effects to it and then render it to the screen. In this picture it looks like they are rendering after every effect they are adding to the model. How fucked up it looks. Awful just awful.
Those are all from cinematics. The pop is caused by the predictive loading - the game gets the Space Stattion textures etc from one part of the DVD/cache, then loads a Covenant scene from another. The payoff is practically no loading. And it also keeps you knee deep in the engine.
Yup, but what this GIF does not show is that only the first few frames of the scene have this issue. It's still a bit too much of course, but not as bad as this looks here. Without this issue the cutscenes would have been the most amazing realtime footage I'd have ever seen on any console. In fact it's still the most amazing, but it's not as perfect as it could have been.Insertia said:
Mr_Furious
Member
That's not a texture LOD or even a mipmap bug but more a problem with the multipass rendering. The model gets a series of textures applied to it that comprise it's detail and effects which appears to get screwed up in that shot, all layering in serparately instead of being applied simultaneously, for whatever reason.-=::[Eagle-Vision]::=- said:
COCKLES said:
yes. it still happens, i definately wouldn't use the word "stuttering" that, that implies some type of freezing, which is not the case.
anyways, as others have said, this is in countless games. I do know its about the only thing you can "ding" halo2 for, so you can expect to hear it alot over the coming year.
Floyd
Member
I have seen halo 2 and this texture pop in is much more apparent this time than it was with Halo. Its mainly on the dead enemies scattered around, they morph and change shape and detail in front of your eyes as you walk toward or away from them.
It's apparent but it isn't off putting. But no doubt your going to hear alot about it from graphics whores.
It's apparent but it isn't off putting. But no doubt your going to hear alot about it from graphics whores.
Pedigree Chum
Banned
Floyd said:
Probably, stupid though. GTA:SA has some major texture pop-in, its no biggie in the end...
TheGreenGiant
Banned
-=::[Eagle-Vision]::=- said:Halo 2's LOD sucks:
oh god. And they let this slip past quality control / bug test? That's REALLY awful.
OG_Original Gamer
Member
No biggy to me, its a glimpse into the next generation in consoles. Although you want have the pop in. It really just shows the ambition and the desire to create the ultimate package.
TheGreenGiant said:-=::[Eagle-Vision]::=- said:Halo 2's LOD sucks:
oh god. And they let this slip past quality control / bug test? That's REALLY awful.
Don't be silly, that's not in the final game. They're just showing what it would look like on ps2, then what it would look like on gc and finally what it looks like on xbox....
Heheh, thanks. So many replies and no one knew what it was.
The problem has nothing to do with the textures themselves (the base texture and their lower res representations), but the timing of when they appear. It occurs at inconsistant distances, and not at the appropriate distances. You get the impression that things are getting spooled and things need to catch up.
TheGreenGiant
Banned
I know this is going to get me a world of pain. But... does the problem go away if you pop Halo 2 all onto the HDD?