Support NeoGAF

[Tenacious-V]

The core is the same size or even bigger than the R420/R480 on a much smaller process. 130nm to 90nm. It's about the same size or so as the G70 core which is on 110nm. Just wtf is ATi packing into this thing to make the core so damn big!??!! With process shrinks usually comes smaller cores, not bigger!!

This things gonna be a monster!! HDR and AA at the same time?? Here's to hoping!!

 

[Dr_Cogent]

The core is the same size or even bigger than the R420/R480 on a much smaller process. 130nm to 90nm. It's about the same size or so as the G70 core which is on 110nm. Just wtf is ATi packing into this thing to make the core so damn big!??!! With process shrinks usually comes smaller cores, not bigger!!

This things gonna be a monster!! HDR and AA at the same time?? Here's to hoping!!

They shrink the die size and add a shit load of transistors to make up for the space.

 

[wobedraggled]

They are packing a revolution in there

 

[Tenacious-V]

For a 90nm process, that thing is HUGE!!!!

 

[Dr_Cogent]

They are packing a revolution in there

Yeah, I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Kleegamefan]

They are packing a revolution in there

Too good to be true

 

[bronzodiriace]

Hollywood gpu is a very different thing respect R520 fudo .
is about 50% less powerful than fudo, it will be between R300 and R420

 

[wobedraggled]

Hollywood gpu is a very different thing respect R520 fudo .
is about 50% less powerful than fudo, it will be between R300 and R420

How far up your ass was this info tucked away?

 

[EternalDarko]

How far up your ass was this info tucked away?

:lol :lol :lol


the r520 core is bloody huge though

 

[Jeff-DSA]

How far up your ass was this info tucked away?

I was about to ask the exact same thing...

Hey guys, DS Next is coming in 2 years, 11 months, and 13 days. It's supposedly 11 times more powerful than PS3, and 1/3 smaller than the DS.

See? I can do it too...

 

[bronzodiriace]

How far up your ass was this info tucked away?

I have an italian friend who work for Ubi-soft Italy [ he worked also with kuji on advance wars for NGC] and this game designer is under NDA but he gives me some little information only about gpu.

Hollywood gpu will be a full customized gpu, it will not be r520 fudo gpu .

will support shader 2.0 and is raw power will be betwenn R420 and R300.

 

[ThongyDonk]

I have an italian friend who work for Ubi-soft Italy [ he worked also with kuji on advance wars for NGC] and this game designer is under NDA but he gives me some little information only about gpu.

Hollywood gpu will be a full customized gpu, it will not be r520 fudo gpu .

will support shader 2.0 and is raw power will be betwenn R420 and R300.

i know you from elsewhere and you know shit

 

[Scrow]

:lol @ bronzodiriace

keep up the good work

 

[Ryudo]

How did this thread end up as a nintard crying pool ?

 

[Scrow]

How did this thread end up as a nintard crying pool ?

happened around this point

They are packing a revolution in there

 

[Mr Gump]

Gamecube Turbo is packing a GF2 MX 200 SLI setup.

 

[Myoclonic Jerk]

can't view pic

 

[Papi]

Have you tried opening your eyes, homie?

 

[bronzodiriace]

How did this thread end up as a nintard crying pool ?

:lol :lol :lol

I don't think so, these are informations about a developer from ubi-soft and imho i think that the hollywood gpu will be that type of gpu.


There are 2 things to consider
1) the revolution box is very little to think that will be 3 g5 clocked to 3.2ghz or gpu like fudo to 0.09 clocked 600mhz. The problem is the dissipation of cpu and gpu in a little box like the revolution so I think they will use cpu 2 g5 clocked to 1.5 ghz and a custom gpu less raw power than fudo that required less watt to dissipate.
2)nintendo announce a low cost for Nintendo Devolution :lol :lol so i don't think they will use high end hardware to built up their console


there are considerations and the words of that developer imho aren't fakes.

NIntendo will pursuit the same road traced with NintendoDS

 

[Hyoushi]

:lol :lol :lol

I don't think so, these are informations about a developer from ubi-soft and imho i think that the hollywood gpu will be that type of gpu.


There are 2 things to consider
1) the revolution box is very little to think that will be 3 g5 clocked to 3.2ghz or gpu like fudo to 0.09 clocked 600mhz. The problem is the dissipation of cpu and gpu in a little box like the revolution so I think they will use cpu 2 g5 clocked to 1.5 ghz and a custom gpu less raw power than fudo that required less watt to dissipate.
2)nintendo announce a low cost for Nintendo Devolution :lol :lol so i don't think they will use high end hardware to built up their console


there are considerations and the words of that developer imho aren't fakes.

NIntendo will pursuit the same road traced with NintendoDS

 

[Myoclonic Jerk]

it does now...

but I have no idea what's that, or what does it mean lol

 

[jman2050]

:lol :lol :lol

I don't think so, these are informations about a developer from ubi-soft and imho i think that the hollywood gpu will be that type of gpu.


There are 2 things to consider
1) the revolution box is very little to think that will be 3 g5 clocked to 3.2ghz or gpu like fudo to 0.09 clocked 600mhz. The problem is the dissipation of cpu and gpu in a little box like the revolution so I think they will use cpu 2 g5 clocked to 1.5 ghz and a custom gpu less raw power than fudo that required less watt to dissipate.
2)nintendo announce a low cost for Nintendo Devolution :lol :lol so i don't think they will use high end hardware to built up their console


there are considerations and the words of that developer imho aren't fakes.

NIntendo will pursuit the same road traced with NintendoDS

So if you're wrong, you get the ban-stick?

*Prays he's wrong*

 

[Frankfurter]

2)nintendo announce a low cost for Nintendo Devolution :lol :lol so i don't think they will use high end hardware to built up their console

What did they announce...? They announced that NRev won't be inferior to the other consoles, anything else is bullshit!

 

[Mr Gump]

When you see it, you will say......WOW

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Well until we know the transistor count ...so what. Smaller process usually means more transistors per area, not necessarily a die shrink. Maybe ati used up the extra real estate with more boolean goodness!

 

[ThongyDonk]

Didn't some guy at IBM say that M$ and Ninty have spent around the same money?
And haven't Ninty INCREASED development over and above what they did with GC?

 

[bronzodiriace]

Didn't some guy at IBM say that M$ and Ninty have spent around the same money?
And haven't Ninty INCREASED development over and above what they did with GC?

yes it's all real and some little economic loss were caused for the R&D for Revolution.

I repeat, my doubts come from the little box of revolution:
Is much smaller than x360 or ps3 so I cant' figure a powerful hardware in a little box.

 

[Frankfurter]

This whole "Nrev will be so small"-thing is repeating itself over and over again. We could now start the same discussion about Cube's vs. PS2's and Xbox's size(including the fact that the disc drive of the cube was very big and that the expansion ports also needed quite much room), but perhaps we should stop it right now

 

[ThongyDonk]

yes it's all real and some little economic loss were caused for the R&D for Revolution.

I repeat, my doubts come from the little box of revolution:
Is much smaller than x360 or ps3 so I cant' figure a powerful hardware in a little box.

Balls

First Nintendo ALWAYS keep the heat outta systems from power using the black box thing on the plug line.
Also with a WEALTH of handheld knowledge they know how to make things small.
Also being a developer as well as a console maker, they know what they need the console to do, and can create a console to do that.
They have also been making consoles for YEARS and know whats what. The GC is less than half the size of the XBox, but just as powerful. So go figure?!?

 

[Shogmaster]

Balls

First Nintendo ALWAYS keep the heat outta systems from power using the black box thing on the plug line.

Even without having internal power supply, Rev's box is too small.

Also with a WEALTH of handheld knowledge they know how to make things small.

Yeah, that's why DS is so "small" only having ARM9 @66Mhz and ARM7 @17Mhz. :rolleyes.

It took Nintendo 3 revs to get GBA to what I'd consider the proper compactness considering the chips involved (the Micro). What makes you think Nin's gonna pull a shrink the bestest and the L33Test tech into the tiniest case voodoo magic act on the Rev the first time out?

Also being a developer as well as a console maker, they know what they need the console to do, and can create a console to do that.

Yeah, and what they need Rev to do is just provide VGA res graphics on the cheap so they can make profit on the bitch from the get go. The real "revolution" is that they'll be making profits from selling the hardware from day 1.

They have also been making consoles for YEARS and know whats what.

So did Sega.

The GC is less than half the size of the XBox, but just as powerful. So go figure?!?

The sad thing is, you probably actually believe that GC is just as powerful as XBox.

 

[bronzodiriace]

Balls

First Nintendo ALWAYS keep the heat outta systems from power using the black box thing on the plug line.
Also with a WEALTH of handheld knowledge they know how to make things small.
Also being a developer as well as a console maker, they know what they need the console to do, and can create a console to do that.
They have also been making consoles for YEARS and know whats what. The GC is less than half the size of the XBox, but just as powerful. So go figure?!?

But the handheld are very different from home console:
Take the cpu of gba or Nds, in this case we speak of cpu or gpu much less power than a g5 or a fudo gpu so you can put them in handheld console
Have you ever seen how is dissipated a g5?

The only thing i can think is most probably revolution will has external psu.

 

[Shogmaster]

I don't know how credible you and your "friend" is (never trust someone on teh web!), your statement about Rev is fairly close to what I scribbled up last month on MS Journal:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v105/Shogmaster/Rev4.jpg

 

[Frankfurter]

Even without having internal power supply, Rev's box is too small.

Hmm, damn it. Now we have the answer: the NRev designers @ Nintendo are just all dumbasses, the box is too small, that's a fact :lol

Btw. lol @ this ATi Mobility X600 as NRev's GPU :lol

How do you think this GPU could give the NRev a comparable power to PS3 and Xbox 360. Iwata said that NRev won't be inferior, that's what we know right now which means that it's just irrealistic to think NRev would have a X600 Mobility.

 

[Shogmaster]

Hmm, damn it. Now we have the answer: the NRev designers @ Nintendo are just all dumbasses, the box is too small, that's a fact :lol

Btw. lol @ this ATi Mobility X600 as NRev's GPU :lol

How do you think this GPU could give the NRev a comparable power to PS3 and Xbox 360. Iwata said that NRev won't be inferior, that's what we know right now which means that it's just irrealistic to think NRev would have a X600 Mobility.

Do you really think Rev will give us comparable power as X360 and PS3? :lol

Don't do this to yourself. Seriously.

 

[miyuru]

I think Rev. will be weaker than PS3/X360...well, maybe on par with X360, but definitely not as powerful as PS3. IMO, if you compare next-gen to current-gen, I believe the Rev. will turn out as powerful as the PS2 is relative to the other consoles.

Of course, I don't think it matters THAT much, as most titles will be multiplatform and thus won't be optimised too much between each system.

 

[Shogmaster]

I think Rev. will be weaker than PS3/X360...well, maybe on par with X360, but definitely not as powerful as PS3.

The only way Rev will be as powerful as X360 is if Rev comes out 2+ years after X360. That casing is just too damn small.

 

[BirdySky]

It took Nintendo 3 revs to get GBA to what I'd consider the proper compactness considering the chips involved (the Micro). What makes you think Nin's gonna pull a shrink the bestest and the L33Test tech into the tiniest case voodoo magic act on the Rev the first time out?

The gpu could be in the visor. That's the revolution. Multiplayer games ona single console with single player graphics in 3d.

You heard it here first.

 

[Tenacious-V]

WTF.......a perfectly good PC GPU thread, turns to a Ninty orgy.....wtf......

Well until we know the transistor count ...so what. Smaller process usually means more transistors per area, not necessarily a die shrink. Maybe ati used up the extra real estate with more boolean goodness!

True, it does equate to more transistors per area, but this is quite a massive process change. From .13 to .09, not like the .13 to .11 NV did with the G70. And with that ATi still managed to have the core the same size as the G70, on a smaller process. It just makes you wonder wtf they've done. It's such a beast!!

 

[ThongyDonk]

Even without having internal power supply, Rev's box is too small.

says who??
You??

Yeah, that's why DS is so "small" only having ARM9 @66Mhz and ARM7 @17Mhz. :rolleyes.

no its due to the GBA B/C, take the GBA slot out and you have a smaller unit

It took Nintendo 3 revs to get GBA to what I'd consider the proper compactness considering the chips involved (the Micro). What makes you think Nin's gonna pull a shrink the bestest and the L33Test tech into the tiniest case voodoo magic act on the Rev the first time out?

Made for next to nothing as they had no competition and didn't need to make it any better or smaller tech

Yeah, and what they need Rev to do is just provide VGA res graphics on the cheap so they can make profit on the bitch from the get go. The real "revolution" is that they'll be making profits from selling the hardware from day 1.

No they need it do do what they need it to do

So did Sega.

But they where crap at it

The sad thing is, you probably actually believe that GC is just as powerful as XBox.

is it not?

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

Hey Shogmaster, you must be really enjoying this arguement. I've read your post on B3D, with you having a long discussion with PC-Engine. Its all very entertaining to read.

 

[xexex]

Nintendo Revolution's GPU, Hollywood, is meant to have at least Shader Model 3.0 capability, or the equivalent of it. not 2.0

I expect Hollywood to have a few advantages over the Xenos GPU in Xbox360, even if Hollywood has less raw performance.

for example, Xenos cannot do tri-linear texture filtering in one clock cycle, it would have to loop back and lose fillrate to gain trilinear filtering. the Flipper in Gamecube can do single-cycle trilinear, and I expect this to carry over to Hollywood.

I also expect Hollywood's embedded 1T-SRAM to have lower latency than Xenos' eDRAM

Xenos is 332 million transistors at least, maybe 352 million and as much as 382 million, depending on exactly how many transistors are in the daughter unit, eDRAM and logic.
232M + 100-150M

Hollywood will probably be 200-300 million total, less than Xenos total no matter what, but how much less I dont know.

 

[Frankfurter]

Do you really think Rev will give us comparable power as X360 and PS3? :lol

Don't do this to yourself. Seriously.

I could repeat what Iwata said, but...
I have no reason to not believe Iwata/Nintendo, that's the point. Nintendo has never before said things like "You'll be able to control rockets with our console", so why the hell shouldn't we just believe what Iwata said?

 

[miyuru]

ThongyDonk: It's common knowledge that the Xbox is more powerful than GameCube (and consequently PS2).

 

[Shogmaster]

Hey Shogmaster, you must be really enjoying this arguement. I've read your post on B3D, with you having a long discussion with PC-Engine. Its all very entertaining to read.

What's funny is, when things get interesting, he ALWAYS manages to get the thread locked before I can respond back to him. :lol

 

[flsh]

Shogmaster, can you please explain to me why Nintendo can't make rev small and yet comparable to xbox360?
Sony made the PSP, and you know without the screen and disc tray it would be a lot smaller. Besides, I may not know a lot about hardware, but don't you need really big jumps in power for "small" differences? For example, won't a 1GHz cpu be much stronger than the exact same type only at 500MHz, but a 1.5GHz won't have the exact same difference? Isn't it possible the rev will have cooler hardware that is quite close to the final resault of the xbox 360 because in order to show a big difference there has to be a huge number difference?
This is all a question though, so don't take it as me trying to argue

 

[Slurpy]

On paper, xbox is probably 5X as powerful as GC. But give me a game like RE4, and I couldn't give a shit. Thats what it comes down to. I want the final product on my television to be comparable- and I believe it will be. Numbers are meaningless.

 

[Elios83]

Nintendo should announce Revolution specs and put an end to this.
Wasn't IGN talking about something right after the Games Convetion?

 

[Shogmaster]

Shogmaster, can you please explain to me why Nintendo can't make rev small and yet comparable to xbox360?
Sony made the PSP, and you know without the screen and disc tray it would be a lot smaller. Besides, I may not know a lot about hardware, but don't you need really big jumps in power for "small" differences? For example, won't a 1GHz cpu be much stronger than the exact same type only at 500MHz, but a 1.5GHz won't have the exact same difference? Isn't it possible the rev will have cooler hardware that is quite close to the final resault of the xbox 360 because in order to show a big difference there has to be a huge number difference?
This is all a question though, so don't take it as me trying to argue

Look, the general principal in electronics is smaller with same capability = more expensive. For a perfect example, look at laptops. The gaming boxes are always bigger and heavier and more expensive. The ultraportables always have slower CPU and built into Northbridge graphics that are way behind the curve in 3D muscle.

Nintendo is working under the same technological constraints as MS and Sony since they are all pretty much tapping the same people (mainly IBM and ATI) for the chips. It's just incredibly unrealistic to expect Nintendo, IBM, and ATI to pull off the power of X360/PS3 in something much much smaller and cheaper!

Now if you said, Rev is gonna cost $500+ so they can put in some kind of exotic active liquid cooling scheme that will allow X360/PS3 level of chips to be cooled in that small of space, then I'd say fine. Perfectly believable. But since they are aiming for $200ish price, it makes the whole prospect much much less feasable.

Let me put it another way:

Small, powerful, cheap; Pick two.

 

[flsh]

I understand what you are saying, but that's not what I mean.
Shouldn't the end resault be somewhat similar if Nintendo puts current high end stuff (I'm not talking about the best, but almost the best) in rev because in order to have drastic difference you need really big jumps in performance? (Don't forget Nintendo said rev won't be HD, I'm asking solely based on that)

 

[Shogmaster]

I understand what you are saying, but that's not what I mean.
Shouldn't the end resault be somewhat similar if Nintendo puts current high end stuff (I'm not talking about the best, but almost the best) in rev because in order to have drastic difference you need really big jumps in performance? (Don't forget Nintendo said rev won't be HD, I'm asking solely based on that)

Then you are just arguing about sementics IMO. Also, SD vs HD mostly only helps for fillrate related issues. Geometry complexity is just as easily seen in 640x480 as 1280x720.