Glad to see you don't take women empowering themselves seriously.
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The 58th Grammy Awards |OT| Witness Greatness tonight at 8 EST
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Glad to see you don't take women empowering themselves seriously.
Surface of Me
I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
The problem I have with a lot of arguments in this thread about TPaB needing to win reek with elitism. Change some specific words around and a lot of posts here are Gamefaqs levels of drivel.
i'm not taking this conversation seriously. i told you that when you first tired to seriously compare the two.
do it.
One could say the same thing about the arguments for 1989 being a few words away from Gaming-side NPD console warrior material. Neither is necessarily the case and neither are productive.
Surface of Me
I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
I'll do you one better, I found a post that doesn't even need the changing of words to be Gamefaqs levels.
And I told you it's clear as day that taking such a position in the first place tells me you don't care about women empowering themselves (you dismissed the messages of 1989 and wrote it off as "that pop album", your continued responses are obvious as to what you deem the worth of an album about female empowerment). If you are that dismissive of the facts and believe that it needs to be some us v. them argument then you're already a lost cause. Especially since your arguments are borderline GameFaqs at this point. You've done nothing to respond to any points people present besides telling them it's bullshit. If you aren't looking for reasonable discussion and just want an echo chamber that's your own prerogative but last I checked we were on a board where thoughts could be exchanged. I took a relatively positive position in regards to the merits of both albums and also considered the feelings of fans of TPAB (while not even being a fan of either album myself) by pointing out a simple fact of the matter regarding how much actual relevancy the Grammy's has (it's not nearly as much as you seem to think). Your response was to frankly be childish.
if you believe that conversation was anything other than an exercise in futility, you're a better person than I.
good eye, though.
I love women empowering themselves. Nicki Minaj is great. Anaconda is more empowering than songs off of 1989 I quoted on the previous page.
edit- whatever. how is 1989 empowering?
Kendrick's performance was insane, that last verse was incredible.
I can't believe they wouldn't let him say "We hate po-po wanna kill us dead in the street for sure" though. It's an integral line in that song. Grammy's were afraid of that Beyonce backlash I guess.
Edit: didn't realise there was a thread already for his song performance, sorry.
I can't believe they wouldn't let him say "We hate po-po wanna kill us dead in the street for sure" though. It's an integral line in that song. Grammy's were afraid of that Beyonce backlash I guess.
Edit: didn't realise there was a thread already for his song performance, sorry.
Re the winning of AotY:
The joke really is on anyone still taking the Grammy's serious. Its a popularity contest award that doesnt care about the best or most significant music. Never has, never will. While I agree TPaB shouldve won it (out of the nominees at least) 1989 winning isn't unexpected at all.
The Grammy's dont care about good music. Take a look at the Metacritic collection of music critic's album of the year list. About half of the top 10 wasn't nominated in a major category. Of the ones that were only TPaB actually managed to win an award in its genre specific category.
You think Rap has it bad? Skrillex won the Dance category in a year that both Caribou and Jamie XX were nominated. Or have a look at the Rock and especially the Alternative awards. Some kinda decent albums mixed with big star names that didnt remotely produce their best albums.
Or let's put it in a historic context: We've seen a big tribute to David Bowie this year. Know how many Grammy's he won during his lifetime? Two, one for a video and one a "sorry we didn't give you any others"-Lifetime achievement.
Rap isn't being persecuted in the Grammy's. If anything, its overrepresented compared to other genre's. BUt nevertheless these awards are a bunch of has been industry insiders voting for whoever the think will make them the most money. Its not an award about the best music and the sooner we all decide these awards are worthless the better.
The joke really is on anyone still taking the Grammy's serious. Its a popularity contest award that doesnt care about the best or most significant music. Never has, never will. While I agree TPaB shouldve won it (out of the nominees at least) 1989 winning isn't unexpected at all.
The Grammy's dont care about good music. Take a look at the Metacritic collection of music critic's album of the year list. About half of the top 10 wasn't nominated in a major category. Of the ones that were only TPaB actually managed to win an award in its genre specific category.
You think Rap has it bad? Skrillex won the Dance category in a year that both Caribou and Jamie XX were nominated. Or have a look at the Rock and especially the Alternative awards. Some kinda decent albums mixed with big star names that didnt remotely produce their best albums.
Or let's put it in a historic context: We've seen a big tribute to David Bowie this year. Know how many Grammy's he won during his lifetime? Two, one for a video and one a "sorry we didn't give you any others"-Lifetime achievement.
Rap isn't being persecuted in the Grammy's. If anything, its overrepresented compared to other genre's. BUt nevertheless these awards are a bunch of has been industry insiders voting for whoever the think will make them the most money. Its not an award about the best music and the sooner we all decide these awards are worthless the better.
On her first few albums they was a very clear country influence.
neurosisxeno
Member
Even as recently as Red she had songs that were clearly country songs. Obviously stuff like I Knew You Were Trouble are straight up pop songs, but her core fanbase was still fans of country music. For some reason everyone turns into a weird Country Music Purist when Taylor Swift comes up, like the entire genre isn't a melting pot. By most peoples standards if you say Swift was never a country singer, then half these asshats in cowboy hats aren't either.
nephilimdj
Member
If Diplo released a best of 2015 CD, he could of won Album of the year
Surface of Me
I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
Wouldn't be the first time a Best of robbed other nominees from winning.
breakfuss
Member
Nas has never won a Grammy.
Unfriendly TimeTraveler
Member
Wow sad Courtney Barnett and Florence + the machine left without anything. Typical Grammy stuff. Happy for Kendrick though, not really the type of music I listen to but I can still respect him. Hopefully next year it will be much better or at least they recognize the people that deserve to be. Last year I had hope because st.vincent won alternative album of the year and she really deserved it.
Wana know if 1989 really was album of the year to the majority of the people, can't judge it cause I never listened to it but idk thought of many qualified artist for that, but if that's what the people want.
Wana know if 1989 really was album of the year to the majority of the people, can't judge it cause I never listened to it but idk thought of many qualified artist for that, but if that's what the people want.
Everyone says this shit when Kanye says some tactless, tasteless, fucked up shit. You motherfuckas need to stop apologizing for that man. He wants to have that piece of shit image; let him live it.
nortonff
Hi, I'm nortonff. I spend my life going into threads to say that I don't care about the topic of the thread. It's a really good use of my time.
I'm not hating on Taylor, but there's a difference between making a good/great album and making one of the most important and impactful albums of the decade.
And that's exactly what Kendrick made. Should have won. Doesn't change it's importance, so move on.
And that's exactly what Kendrick made. Should have won. Doesn't change it's importance, so move on.
theignoramus
Member
This article makes a pretty good case the Grammys have a racial bias issue, and it was written before Kendrick got snubbed tonight.
Some choice quotes:
This one in particular jumped out at me.
http://www.salon.com/2016/02/16/kanye_is_right_about_the_grammys_the_music_industry_needs_to_fix_its_whiteness_problem_too/
Some choice quotes:
This one in particular jumped out at me.
http://www.salon.com/2016/02/16/kanye_is_right_about_the_grammys_the_music_industry_needs_to_fix_its_whiteness_problem_too/
To Pimp A Butterfly literally debuted at #1 in your country. Stop trying to hide your ignorance.
An interesting read. I hope the Grammys can be more inclusive of minorities in future. I guess if the Oscars can have a go at it then maybe the Grammys can too?
Yeah 1989 didn't have global impact. Very popular of course but not a global impact.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
So, let me get this straight. Skrillex and Justin Fucking Beiber won the Grammys in the dance categories, and the Chemical Brothers got hosed.
They finally got the rap categories right, and now they fuck up the dance categories? Did I get that right?
Can we recall that Grammy and deport Bieber back to Canada, like we should have?
They finally got the rap categories right, and now they fuck up the dance categories? Did I get that right?
Can we recall that Grammy and deport Bieber back to Canada, like we should have?
Word. I don't fuck with that shit personally. Intersectional feminism shows real empathy and critical thinking, white feminism...not so much
This is such a lazy view and a stance so easily taken. Like, what good have you done, then? How have you addressed the issues of minorities across the spectrum, not to mention people in 3rd world countries? Taylor Swift has not once claimed to be an authority on either feminism or politics. Is it bad that as a very popular mainstream figure she speaks about sexism just because she doesn't do a thorough analysis? It's a positive that these things are talked about, period. People are thirsty beyond belief to take down this popular woman, these issues are super relevant to her.
This thing of expecting perfection and complete coverage of issues from anyone who dares bring up feminism or identify as a feminist sure isn't helping any good cause.
Just because you don't 'fuck' with it, gender inequality is a fact, regardless of race. Intersectional feminism is important, race is important as a topic on par with and interconnected with gender equality, and should be part of mainstream discourse to a larger degree, but that doesn't take away from the fact that feminism and fight for women's right is important in and of itself. No need to qualify it. This is getting dangerously close to MRAs on twitter saying "hey, women in the 3rd world are suffering, you have nothing to complain about"
theignoramus
Member
Everything she says and does feels calculated to the ninth degree. Smart business woman for sure though, she'll probably run a record label at some point.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Remember that thread from like a year back about Beyonce not being a feminist because <insert impossible definitions of feminism pulled from ass>
Here we are calling Taylor Swift a feminist so I have to ask...other than being a female who is successful what exactly has Taylor Swift done?
Here we are calling Taylor Swift a feminist so I have to ask...other than being a female who is successful what exactly has Taylor Swift done?
This is literally one thread of many where people say she's not a feminist because <insert impossible definitions of feminism pulled from ass>. Both with her and Beyonce it's dumb. I'm a feminist. What have I done? Jack shit. But I'm still a feminist.
They don't always mess up the dance category. Last year they gave it to Aphex Twin for Syro, which was totally deserved.
NHarmonic.
Member
Cherry Picking is a great tool, and can be played both ways. Beware.
Besides, How you get the girl is a great song.
That song doesn't even mention Katy Perry (and actually doesn't make any sense if you asocciate it with her, the lyrics don't fit). Such a big deal from something so stupid.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Difference is America at large seems to agree that Taylor Swift is a feminist of some kind getting cosigns from all kinds of people and she has done about as much as Beyonce, who for some reason people all around the US love to claim she's not and she's just co-opting the movement.
I'd just like to know without going to the painfully obvious (in my eyes) reason why such a large difference in views between two people who have done just about the same in the name of feminism.
I don't think you're right. Beyonce has been seen as political to a larger degree than Taylor Swift. Obviously Beyonce also has to deal with racist shit. But I think she's been accepted as political much more than TS.
theignoramus
Member
Beck winning last year over Beyonce and Taylor Swift winning over Kendrick this year is a total 180 to me in terms of what the voters value in their album of the year.
cubicle47b
Member
I found To Pimp a Butterfly grating to listen to so I'm not upset it didn't win album of the year. Good Kid, Maad City is an all-time great and should have won in 2014, though. Also, Morning Phase was extremely mediocre compared to Sea Change.
Good kid mad city was truly a better album, and I find a lot of the live performances of TPAB to be incoherent screaming.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
So, they rotate the category to fuck up every year, then...
airmangataosenai
Member
Haha, people need to stop embarrassing themselves with these over the top reactions. It's just a corny pop song for God's sake and this dude lost his damn mind.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Disagree, setting aside Formation (and to a lesser extent Bow Down) and the white collective losing their mind. Beyonce in the eyes of many has always been "safe". They'll play her women's anthems (repeatedly) but complained/cried/mental breakdown when she suggested she was a feminist. All around America people were asking what Beyonce did to further the movement, what she did/does to empower women (as if that shit wasn't painfully obvious), moved goalposts when people pointed out her track record.
I honestly don't see such being thrown at Taylor Swift in any capacity. It just seems from the get go it's an accepted truth that Taylor is this shining beacon for Feminism when she hasn't done anymore than Beyonce to earn such praise and love.
As I said, I already know what the answer is, but some days I like to give our society the benefit of doubt.
YoYo Switch
Banned
people in here who find to pimp a butterfly grating or marshal matters 2 was the last hip hop album you liked..
you're either not smart enough, or were offended by his CORRECT message
there is no nuance to this argument, there is no debate here. you are stupid. accept that.
i am leaving this thread forever
you're either not smart enough, or were offended by his CORRECT message
there is no nuance to this argument, there is no debate here. you are stupid. accept that.
i am leaving this thread forever
To be honest, I never heard of it til people started listing it on album of the year lists on Gaf.
This. As an intersectional feminist myself the attempts to brush off anything that says women should be positive about themselves is very disturbing to me. This topic has reeked of MRA ever since Taylor Swift was announced the winner.
Literally no one made this argument.
I've never seen Beyonce get this treatment in widespread ways. From the same people who also treat Taylor Swift like garbage? Yes. However, women in general are constantly being treated like garbage by people like that. This topic is frankly filled with nothing but posts that read like: "fuck female empowerment, that's not important". And the ones who do respond to criticms of these statements just double-down on their sexism when they're called out on it. "a song about a woman worshiping penis is empowering for women. also only women with big asses are desirable and good human beings".
African-american and female empowerment can both be important at the exact same time. Trying to tear one down as people have in this topic is just disturbing to me. I'd say that goes both ways but I'm seeing way more sexism than I am racism here.
Must have taken too much flak and nuked his Twitter.
cubicle47b
Member
I said To Pimp a Butterfly was grating to listen to. I very quickly started skipping over For Free?, u, and Hood Politics. Then it progressed to me just listening to my favorite tracks. When that happens an album is usually on its way out of my rotation.
Just now saw this. Amazing. Legend indeed.
u and Hood Politics are two of the best songs on that album
I was responding to the posters belief that one can't be smart/would be offended by the album's message. I don't care for the sounds either myself. That doesn't mean I can't respond to the album's themes or that I somehow only listen to Eminem as far as hip-hop/rap goes.
cubicle47b
Member
My favorites are probably Wesley's Theory, Institutionalized, and How Much a Dollar Cost. It's been a while.
Thewonandonly
Junior Member
I agree with you their but I will also say that u is the hardest song to listen to on the album. K dot throws so much emotion in their you can really tell. Still pissed this didn't win because it was the clear winner by just looking at the average ratings for albums. Unlike MBDTF (which should have won also) this album had a huge cultural impact and for that reason alone should have won more. Also every song I heard from 1989 just sounds like normal pop to me. Blank space, shake it off, and that got awful into the woods song.
Also my favorites are weasley theories, King kunta, blacker the berry, and hood politics.
Edit: you know what the most sad thing is tho. All the news outlets are talking about how Taylor gave a big blow to Kanye. Not any are talking about the injustice of the greatest rap album since ilmatic getting robbed by a album that will be forgotten next year :/
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