Prodigal Son
Member
I'm sure you cool with concluding that this one guying showing his true colors is someone indicative of the rest of us.
The Amount of Hillary Hate Scares Me
- Thread starter LittleBoots
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I'm sure you cool with concluding that this one guying showing his true colors is someone indicative of the rest of us.
I don't trust her one bit from her past. She has a deceptive, manipulative past, which is a sign of power lust, no different than Trump. We need someone in office that wasn't bred to be a politician. And if we go down, I'd rather go down singing, dancing, and laughing with the republicans than screaming in horor with a democrat, especially Clinton.
Lord_Byron28
Member
As a Bernie fan who will vote for him on Super Tuesday, I agree. I share similar sentiment about a lot of Bernie supporters. I busted(and still do) my ass working 50+ hours managing a country club while going to school full time, as well as bills, insurance, etc. A lot of them think like they're in V for Vendetta or something.
Don't get me wrong I have problems with Hillary but she is a million times better than anyone she will face in the general election.
Although I am a little afraid of Hillary's unfavorable ratings and her ability to energize the base. It may result in lower voter turn out if she fails to rally the base. The only way I could see Trump win the election is if the Republicans run a brokered convention. If they did that Trump would run independent which could attract a lot of those Bernie supporters who are blindly anti-establishment. I'm afraid low voter turn out for both the Democratic and Republican Candidates as well as splitting the "establishment" base may result in victory. Again that's the only slim way I could see him win.
Don't get me wrong there is plenty wrong with the establishment but destroying and wrecking the nation is not the way to go about it. It's like the tea partiers refusing to do their jobs and shutting down the goverment.
He only seems unstoppable only because he's fighting against a massively divided field though. If he went 1-on-1 with any of the major Republican contenders he wouldn't have this aura of invulnerability.
Good Job Bob
Member
There is a real conundrum here.
I don't think this actually applies to Hillary vs Trump, but hypothetically let's say there was a general election between two candidates:
Candidate A is a social conservative (pro-life, against gay marriage, anti-immigrant, etc) but left wing economically (pro labor, generous welfare state, etc)
Candidate B is socially left (pro-choice, for gay marriage, pro-immigration, etc) but right-wing economically (anti-union, free market enthusiast, anti-welfare, etc)
Who would you vote for? Could you really blame a working class straight white male for voting for Candidate A (assuming they would vote for the socially and economically left candidate if they had the option)?
I don't think this actually applies to Hillary vs Trump, but hypothetically let's say there was a general election between two candidates:
Candidate A is a social conservative (pro-life, against gay marriage, anti-immigrant, etc) but left wing economically (pro labor, generous welfare state, etc)
Candidate B is socially left (pro-choice, for gay marriage, pro-immigration, etc) but right-wing economically (anti-union, free market enthusiast, anti-welfare, etc)
Who would you vote for? Could you really blame a working class straight white male for voting for Candidate A (assuming they would vote for the socially and economically left candidate if they had the option)?
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
If it doesn't apply to you, don't worry about it.
MHWilliams
Member
Huh. Honest at least.
Depends on the available Congress really. What is the given chance that the Congress aligns with the candidate?
Well done. Now imagine doing all that, becoming a "nonpoor," and still being unable to escape a high-poverty neighborhood.
Yeah, priorities, man. Free college. Less debt.
"Poor minorities," psheh.
Look, I'm being sarcastic because I'm frustrated with the way you're stating your opinions. I'm sure you have valid beef with Hillary's policies, but that's no reason to write off the problems of other people (specifically, women and ethnic groups) just because you haven't experienced those problems.
The fact that you made it out and others didn't is not testament to your deserts. It's testament to your good luck.
excelsiorlef
Member
Let me explain this simply.
Your system is two parties, that's not going to change this election, and frankly can't change via an election, it's gonna need a complete overhaul of the entire system.
As such two options exist
The Democrats who offer at worst a continuation of what's happening now and a best a serious progression to the left
The Republicans who are all literally competing right now to see who is the most oppressive and have a front runner that can factually say that 20% of his supports opposed ending slavery.
On the line this election is the future of the Supreme Court for the next 20-30 years.
You have two options: One that will not harm and one that will set everyone back decades.
That's the reality, everything else is fantasy.
Aaronology
Member
I absolutely don't think that applies to the rest of you, as I am not sure who "you" are in this context. Trump supporters? Bernie fans? Anti-Hillary?
I do, however, believe that a lot of people who are pledging to segue from Sanders to Trump do so with both the luxury of not being affected by the latter's positions and with the apathy for those who will be. If this is not you, Son, then do not feel targeted. The sentiment clearly applies to many others that you are choosing to become defensive for, though.
Prodigal Son
Member
Funny.
I worry.
I'm a non-straight black male for Bernie but who will vote for Hillary in November.
Regardless, it doesn't matter if it applies to me. Surely there are people who fit your description, but you're insinuating, without basis, that these people are here among us, even targeting certain posters here. In my view, that isn't fair of you and I don't think it helps the discussion.
TheOfficeMut
Unconfirmed Member
But if I can't have it my way then no one can!
Well its his vote in the end, who are we to judge? I would vote Hillary in the end because well, we have to be realistic... SOMEONE is going to win. But Hillary shouldn't expect people to vote her just because its her or the republicans, she has to earn the vote- can't expect family name and political allegiance to carry her to the oval office.
I can definitely understand why people spew more hatred at Hillary than the republicans though- its because the republicans are visibly the "bad guys", they are the clear antagonists in this story. But with Clinton? She reminds me of Mayor Carcetti from The Wire... she is a progressive, she shares ideals with many Liberals, so when its apparent that in the end she is a scheming opportunist, it hurts even more... that the "good guy" is actually no better than the "bad guys". That betrayal of ideals, the selling out of integrity is a lot more painful when its from one of your own and thus, this betrayal evokes a lot of negative emotions like the anger we are seeing here.
B holds more ghosts. One can justify the problem of A with the real cancer known as religion. That's what we already do and have to deal with.
B literally adheres to unaccountable beliefs even beyond the bullshit of religion, like a free, unregulated market being a moral compass.
It speaks volumes that there are beliefs more unaccountable than purely religious ones, but there truly are.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
FTFY
The saddest thing about what you posted, I honestly and truly believe the bolded statement to be accurate, if not an understatement.
Big Baybee
Member
Not surprising at all. I'm sure more people feel the you do, but just won't come out and say it. Funny you would vote for a socialist with this kind of attitude.
And you don't give two fucks about all the people you take down with you? You know, the ones with lives, children, jobs, and new and fragile human rights, such as healthcare and equal marriage? Wouldn't it be fun to watch the laborers that support your lifestyle continue to live hellish lives, making less than minimum wage because technically they aren't allowed to be citizens?
I'm making a lot of assumptions about you here, but damn the obliviousness and narcissism appears to be off the scale.
excelsiorlef
Member
And you're cheering for him.... so congrats.
Lets take a systems perspective on this.
If that is what is required for the average person to stay afloat, do you think we will have a stable, wealthy society? Is that a reasonable standard to attain for the priveledge of feeding your family without food stamps?
BrutishMrFish
Member
Parents being deported and separated from their children, gay couples being stripped of their right to marry, and Muslims being barred from entering the country?
"Sounds fun, guys! Look at all of those losers! WHAT A RIOT AM I RIGHT GUYS?!"
-A sociopath
Truth be told, it's his stance on college (After pulling myself through with enormous student debt his free college ideas are nothing short of amazing) and I believe he truly believes in what he preaches.
Given the alternatives, that is enough for me.
Cheering for isn't the right word. Curious is the better word. I enjoy chaos. Trump is the political version of chaos incarnate.
While I would prefer Bernie, I would chose Trump over Hillary.
On a related note, I 100% would vote Hillary over Cruz because I refuse to vote for someone whose first justification for doing something is the Bible.
I hope you realize that you sound uninformed. Your political ideolgy sounds like the Aesop of a bad Hollywood movie. Some of the best democratic presidents have been shifty as hell political operatives, hell Bill Clinton was definitely a political animal first and foremost, and yet they still got things done.
Now, you think that Hilary, who holds many of the same views that Obama does, is somehow worse than someone who has shown himself to be bigoted, who would deport millions of illegal immigrants, who would appoint ass backwards conservative supreme court justices, who would block 1 billion people from coming into the country for a unspecified amount of time, who would execute the families of people he deems to be terrorists, who has said that he would change the 1st amendment to suit his needs...
Is just as bad?
User 463088
Banned
I actually agree with you...except for this part. And I apologize. Hillary is not taking anything for granted. When she knew she was getting blown out in NH, she stayed and worked for every single vote she could get. She stayed in the state and thanked her supporters and volunteers.
In SC, it was clear she was going to win by a country mile. And what did she do? Met with people. Gave speeches. Shook the babies, and kissed the hands. She, and her team, worked their asses off for every inch of that 47.5% margin. She's working for votes in every single Super Tuesday state, even Vermont (where she's going to get the crap kicked out of her.)
I'd encourage you to compare what her esteemed opponent did in SC, and his unwillingness to campaign in any state that doesn't have an overwhelming white population..
She is working for the votes she's getting. Her team and her volunteers (of which I am proud to be one!) are working for the votes.
But, on the whole, I agree with your point. Just had to get that out there.
I'd want to, but in the end, no I couldn't. I sympathize with the people actually working hard who depend on left-wing economic policies.
Still, the "who gives a crap about the policies that don't affect me personally" BS that I'm hearing is driving me up the wall.
That people mostly vote based on their policy preferences and not based on who insulted them on the internet?
Because they're not 6?
I mean, by definition, since they're voting.
excelsiorlef
Member
Thing is this is just fantasy, no such race will ever happen.
TheOfficeMut
Unconfirmed Member
Perfect! You're exactly who I was referring to.
We aren't running for office, Hillary is. Any decision to not vote for her is not our fault because of the way we speak to you. That's god damn stupid.
hammysaurusrex
Member
It's confusing to me as well.
There's actually one particular topic that I'm interested in politically, and both Hillary and Bernie are terrible about - and that's scientific literacy. The Clinton family is notorious for being quack-friendly and propping up legislation to help things like "functional medicine" (the belief that chiropractors and naturopaths are just as good as say, an actual neurologist) and push an agenda that medicine doesn't need to be about using approaches that are evidence-based. Meanwhile, Bernie's campaign is rife with anti-GMO advocates and he's very friendly with the organic lobby groups. Bernie has the reputation of being the "not politician politician" - but on this issue he's very textbook in how he handles the topic - extremely wishy-washy with zero commitment and the desire to ride the fence and keep everyone happy instead of admitting that sometimes science and reality don't agree with the philosophy of the golden mean.
Yet, despite this being my particular issue of interest, I still recognize that either one is going to be the better alternative to whatever garbage comes out the other end; e.g. - at least we aren't talking about Creationism
There's actually one particular topic that I'm interested in politically, and both Hillary and Bernie are terrible about - and that's scientific literacy. The Clinton family is notorious for being quack-friendly and propping up legislation to help things like "functional medicine" (the belief that chiropractors and naturopaths are just as good as say, an actual neurologist) and push an agenda that medicine doesn't need to be about using approaches that are evidence-based. Meanwhile, Bernie's campaign is rife with anti-GMO advocates and he's very friendly with the organic lobby groups. Bernie has the reputation of being the "not politician politician" - but on this issue he's very textbook in how he handles the topic - extremely wishy-washy with zero commitment and the desire to ride the fence and keep everyone happy instead of admitting that sometimes science and reality don't agree with the philosophy of the golden mean.
Yet, despite this being my particular issue of interest, I still recognize that either one is going to be the better alternative to whatever garbage comes out the other end; e.g. - at least we aren't talking about Creationism
Man, this makes you sound like a teenager that likes the Joker too much
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Treat politics and the effect it has on lives like one of your Japanese animes brehs
Those people do exist. People can hold grudges and vote against their interests in order to see others fail/faulter. People are petty. Donald Trump is leading on the republican side simply because he is petty. He says shit just to be counter to his opponents and make them look weak.
No, not everyone is petty, but it just might be enough to be a problem.
Dr_LucienSanchez
Banned
He is the best villain. But no, far from a teenager.
A politically active 27 year old professional who is sick of seeing politics function as a ecosystem of it's own.
A political bomb needs to be dropped on Washington, be it Bernie or Trump.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
Seriously. I stopped taking him seriously after the "poor minorities" bullshit.
Holy shit, how do you have any non-shredded clothes from all those edges?
TheLaughingStock
Member
According to David Brooks, you should play politics with people who lean left and right, but you should not compromise and reconcile with people who lean left or right. Those guys and gals are antipolitics and they've been popping up over the last 30 years. Order can only be maintained through compromise or brute force. You should vote for candidates that believe in politics.
Right, the "at least they're being honest about it" defense. I see where people are coming from, but I don't understand why on earth that could be enough to tip the scales in their opponent's favor once their champion loses.
It's not possible to overstate this: Liberal. Supreme court. That could last for DECADES. Hillary is worth it for that alone. To be honest, I'm starting to think any democratic presidential candidate is worth it for that alone.
Truth be told, I'm not 100% clear on what you mean. That said in the long run this is all fairly meaningless as not one person in this thread is going to change their vote based on what was said in this thread (or I hope people aren't so wishy-washy).
Best of luck to whoever you want to win on Super Tuesday and let's all enjoy the fireworks.
Sheesh. So how was r/atheism today?
Man, I've already changed my views about people who support Bernie and Trump based on these discussions. Some people are single issue voters. Bums me out, but that's how it is.
I HOPE someone reading this would change their vote from Trump to Hillary after staying a bit in here. But you're right, maybe that's a pipe dream.
You want some fucking chaos, move to Syria.
I'm sure you can pull yourself by your fucking bootstraps again.
excelsiorlef
Member
See this is a game to you, it's not a game to others.
This isn't a TV show, this is real fucking life with real fucking consequences.
I mean, this is real life, not Curb Your Enthusiasm.
I am frankly incredibly tired of hearing this argument in every discussion, from racism to sexism to transphobia and now, apparently, to choosing your Presidential candidate.
I am not responsible for making you feel good about your choices. That's on you! I'll do you the favor of giving you direct and straightforward feedback as to what I think about them. If that makes you feel bad, then maybe you should reconsider your choices.
I am also not responsible for any hostage situation you create by suggesting that you might choose not to take an action you agree is moral because I was mean to you. You're responsible for your choice to do the wrong thing, not me. That's how hostage situations work.
If you choose not to vote for Hillary because I was rude on the internet, and as a result Donald Trump becomes president of the United States, feel free to come back to the thread and explain that it's my fault for being rude to you, and we'll see how that goes. Maybe we can get a poll up. And also, good luck finding ways to blame other people for all of your irrational and unproductive decisions for the rest of your life.
Prodigal Son
Member
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